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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 15:36:07 GMT -5
It does not matter if you or I feel it has a huge effect on the team. The bottom line is that any kid on the roster is to be reported for the CB numbers. If Fenner and Feichtner are both open enrolling to CC then each are worth 5 CB points. How does CC have a total CB number of 8(which is what hagen claims) if two players give them 10?
And also you are only looking at 9 players when we all know they have 2 high schools teams made of more kids than that.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 7, 2017 15:56:49 GMT -5
Let me re-direct back to my initial reason for posting. Recruiting was being implied by some posters. I personally don’t care about Crawford’s CB or if they are Div 3 or 4. I just don’t see any proof that they are recruiting. Many small schools have open enrollment. Many kids from Crestline Galion & Bucyrus open enroll at Crawford. Only 2 players, in my opinion, that I have knowledge, open enroll at CC currently who have and will affect the current or future (next 2-3 yrs) success of the basketball team. How is that anyone thinks there is or was recruiting going with these two or any others?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 16:16:20 GMT -5
Try this scenario...... If a Football coach talks a kid into open enrolling at his school to play football but then when the season starts this kid is only good enough to be a jv football player. This may be poor recruiting in the eyes of you and me but it is by rule, still recruiting.
I make no claim of recruiting but when you have an amount of kids changing schools that are all on the same roster, things will be said. This is the reason the Competitive Balance number was created. I just jumped in on a conservative about a team being discussed. If this school has a CB of 8 but has two players not living in the district, the way I read the calculator is that they are being dishonest.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 7, 2017 16:41:20 GMT -5
Dude, I appreciate what you are saying about both the Recruiting and Competitive Balance but my main point is that none of Crawford’s current Varsity or JV players seem to me to have been “Recruited” players. We could argue to some degree about one of the kids who is from the school I root for but as a diehard Royal I wouldn’t call it Recruiting that he ended up at Crawford for 7th grade. We are not talking about a big D1 or D2 school where kids in 6th or 7th grade are truly being recruited because they are going to be D1 college athletes. Just tired of hearing people always knocking a team’s success by saying they were or have been Recruiting when there is absolutely no proof. Go ahead continue to discuss the CB. I just don’t personally care about CC Division. To me the OHSAA should be policing this and one would think there aren’t any loop holes that a school could use to not have been put in their proper Division.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 7, 2017 16:46:53 GMT -5
Seems to me you think a kid on Crawford’s JV team was Recruited but was not good enough to make the Varsity.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 17:59:53 GMT -5
"Seems" to me that you are wrong on one thought and possibly wrong on the other. My point was from your information some at CC is being dishonest OR you are completely wrong in your information. But I do enjoy the dialogue.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 7, 2017 19:05:41 GMT -5
Please tell me (us) what two points I am wrong about? I would like to have or get the correct info.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 20:28:26 GMT -5
...none of Crawford’s current Varsity or JV players seem to me to have been “Recruited” players. You obviously do not know and could be wrong. Seems to me you think a kid on Crawford’s JV team was Recruited but was not good enough to make the Varsity. You are most definitely wrong. Since we have both made our points, let's move on.
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Post by jmorgret07 on Dec 7, 2017 21:37:18 GMT -5
Galion 8-6-15-17 - 46 Upper Sandusky 14-23-18-32 - 87
Galion (1-1): 19-50 FG, 7-13 FT, 1-14 3pt (Anderson), 25 rebounds (Skaggs 7), 25 turnovers. Scoring: Isaiah Alsip 8 1-2 17, Gage Lackey 1 6-8 8, Jack McElligot 4 0-0 8, Colton Powell 1 0-0 2, Colten Skaggs 1 0-2 2, Zhamir Anderson 4 0-1 9, Tristan Williams 0 0-0 0, Nathan Eckert 0 0-0 0.
Upper Sandusky (3-0): 30-54 FG, 21-26 FT, 6-17 3pt (Dible 3, Young, Malone, Montgomery), 41 rebounds (Clifford 7), 18 turnovers. Scoring: Harrison Sheaffer 1 3-4 5, Jevon Dible 8 1-2 20, Mason Vent 1 1-2 3, Evan Young 4 6-6 15, Jason Holly 6 3-4 15, Andrew Kurtz 2 0-0 4, Levi Malone 1 0-0 3, Trevor Clifford 5 3-4 13, Brett Montgomery 1 2-2 5, Ben Sheaffer 1 0-0 2, Cole Sowers 0 2-2 2.
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Hagen
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Post by Hagen on Dec 8, 2017 8:32:28 GMT -5
If Fenner and Feichtner are both open enrolling to CC then each are worth 5 CB points. How does CC have a total CB number of 8(which is what hagen claims) if two players give them 10? There are different tiers worth different points. Not every CB kid has the same point value for a variety of reasons. Also, I don't "claim" this. It's listed on the OHSAA page. < 2017-18 Boys Basketball Division IV> ... I just don’t personally care about CC Division. To me the OHSAA should be policing this and one would think there aren’t any loop holes that a school could use to not have been put in their proper Division. (Speaking purely about schools in general) You may not care about division, but coaches do. All sports, not just basketball. Going up/down a division could mean a regional run, or getting bounced in sectionals. There are loopholes. Some basic ones are cutting CB kids from the team who aren't/won't be key varsity players. CB only affects players on the team, not the entire school. Also, getting open-enrolled players to physically move into the district is another. These affect tiers and are being used by schools in various sports. Make no mistake about that.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 8, 2017 9:24:41 GMT -5
Dude, your right I do not know for sure CC is not Recruiting. The only player in the program at the HS level who came to CC after 7th grade is Fenner, who’s Mom is a long time teacher and is Head Varsity girls coach and his Dad is the assistant coach. All other players in the HS program (last season included) who are current or will be future varsity starters have been enrolled at the school prior to 7th grade. In my opinion the Recruiting accusation as no merit. I agree - that we should move on to a new topic.
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Post by bballfrenzy on Dec 8, 2017 9:28:36 GMT -5
The weird thing about Fenner though is that his dad was a coach at Shelby for a long time and his older brother was a stud player for Shelby a few years back.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 8, 2017 10:36:14 GMT -5
The weird thing about Fenner though is that his dad was a coach at Shelby for a long time and his older brother was a stud player for Shelby a few years back. Agree it does seem a little weird with the Dad for many years being a Junior High coach and the brother's previous high school success. The younger Fenner went to basketball camps with the Crawford kids in Junior High.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 11:47:05 GMT -5
Dude, your right I do not know for sure CC is not Recruiting. The only player in the program at the HS level who came to CC after 7th grade is Fenner, who’s Mom is a long time teacher and is Head Varsity girls coach and his Dad is the assistant coach. All other players in the HS program (last season included) who are current or will be future varsity starters have been enrolled at the school prior to 7th grade. In my opinion the Recruiting accusation as no merit. I agree - that we should move on to a new topic. OHSAA truly has not care if the mother is a long time teacher or if the father helps her coach. All they care about is where you live and when did you enroll. And that goes for everyone on a high school roster. The CB is set using that information. My point was that your info and hagen's info did not match. A CB of 8 and only 2 kids not living in the district is impossible.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 8, 2017 12:03:39 GMT -5
Dude - Seriousy... Your as bad as Fillmore at times Agree - OHSAA doesn't care about the parents teaching & coaching. The Fenner kid was NOT recruited to CC. The parents CHOSE to enroll him without any influence. Reason: Probably because it was convenient for them as a family. My main points are about Recruiting NOT CB. CB & Recruiting are two different topics If CC was truly Recruiting kids. I would be one of the first to "scream foul" As I don't like getting beat these last several years and most likely for the foreseeable future by CC So please, if you want to discuss CB with Hagen Go ahead. If you want to discuss Recruiting with me I am open to a discussion.
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Post by bballfrenzy on Dec 8, 2017 12:28:01 GMT -5
I know this is a N10 thread but if you really want to talk about recruiting look at Ontario, aren’t 4 of their 5 starters kids that didn’t even go there in elementary or middle school? Don’t want to get away from N10 talk though, just thought I’d throw that out there.
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Post by sport24278 on Dec 8, 2017 12:46:38 GMT -5
It's not recruiting when a kid magically ends up at your school, and just happens to play basketball. Just ask the Willard Flashes fans leftover from the 1980s!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 12:48:03 GMT -5
Dude - Seriousy... Your as bad as Fillmore at times Agree - OHSAA doesn't care about the parents teaching & coaching. The Fenner kid was NOT recruited to CC. The parents CHOSE to enroll him without any influence. Reason: Probably because it was convenient for them as a family. My main points are about Recruiting NOT CB. CB & Recruiting are two different topics If CC was truly Recruiting kids. I would be one of the first to "scream foul" As I don't like getting beat these last several years and most likely for the foreseeable future by CC So please, if you want to discuss CB with Hagen Go ahead. If you want to discuss Recruiting with me I am open to a discussion. Stop using those dirty words. I make no claim of recruiting. But if they are you probably wouldn't know it unless you are one of their coaches. Those who do it normally keep it quiet. You have already said you know nothing about CC recruiting so why would anyone want to talk about recruiting with you. I only made the statement that someone is being dishonest if your information is accurate.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 8, 2017 13:15:12 GMT -5
Maybe someone is being dis-honest about the CB. I was implying that looking at CC's Varsity / JV roster. And knowing the players in each class from Frosh-Seniors Watching these kids play vs Winford over the years. Being friends with many of the parents. From the outside looking in - there doesn't seem to be players on the CC's team due to being Recruited. Maybe they were recruited prior to 7th grade. I wouldn't know.. but doubt it. Usually the recruiting is done btw 8th & 9th grade... more like what bballfrenzy stated about Ontario Having 4 of 5 starters who did not attend MS or JH in the Ontario district. That certainly looks more like there could be recruiting going on (which I don't think is the case at Ontario - I believe those kid's parents decided on their own to send their kids to Ontario as it is a very good school academically and they have a solid b-ball program) All but one CC kid was was enrolled at CC prior to 7th grade. If there is some CB reporting dishonesty going on - then that is something the OHSAA needs to look into. Call and report them. There are definitely 2 players who live outside the district who are open enrolled. To my knowledge there are no others.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 13:20:48 GMT -5
Since they have a CB of 8 they had to have at least 4 kids not living in the district or as many as 8. So that would question your information that all but one or two live in the CC district.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 8, 2017 15:00:41 GMT -5
No matter the # of players not living in the district If it is 2-4 or up to 8.. all but 1 have been enrolled prior to 7th grade.
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Post by fbfan on Dec 8, 2017 16:46:02 GMT -5
N10 CB numbers: BC=1, CC=8, MO=1, SE=3, BU=3, CA=4, UP=0, WY=3.
Notable other schools in the area: Mans ST Pete=27, ONT=23, Pleasant=21, Mans Christ=16
If a CB number of 8 leads someone to believe that CC is recruiting I would just say they are not doing a very good job of it. I know that CC draws a lot of open enroll students from the Bucyrus/Crawford county area. Can't speak for the other N10 schools. I don't know CC's current number, but a couple of years ago it was in excess of 200. If a few of those happen to play BB, and increase the CB number, I think that would be within the law of averages. Same could be said for Ontario open enrollment wise.
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Post by hookshot on Dec 8, 2017 17:01:57 GMT -5
Interesting with Uppers success of the past few years that their # is 0
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 9, 2017 1:10:15 GMT -5
Proud to say, the truth about Ontario basketball rosters as far as I know. Players that were not at Ontario in 7th or 8th grade.
Varsity roster:
One Senior - He plays off the bench. Came before the start of his Freshman year. Do not know if he Open Enrolled or his family moved to Ontario. Do not know what school he came from.
Three Juniors - Starting PG slightly better than the Freshman PG. Came to Ontario before the start of his Freshman year. Do not know if he Open Enrolled or his family moved to Ontario. Do not know what school he came from. Two are of no worth this year, nor will they be worth anything next year. I'll be surprised if either are playing basketball next year. They both came to Ontario before the start of the 9th grade. Don't know if they Open Enrolled or the families moved to Ontario. Don't know what schools they came from.
Three Sophomores - One starter moved to Ontario before the beginning of his Freshman year. Came from Mansfield School District. One starter transferred from Mansfield Christian this year. His family lives in Ontario, so he could play right away. One Open Enrolled from Oak Hill Academy this year, so is sitting out half the games. IMO he will come off the bench when he is eligible.
JV team:
One Junior - First year playing basketball, will never contribute at the varsity level. Do not know when or how he got to Ontario or where he came from.
Freshman team:
One player comes off the bench. New this year. Don't know if he Open Enrolled or his family moved to Ontario. Don't know what school he came from.
8th grade team:
Two new players this year. Don't know how they got to Ontario or where they came from.
7th grade - There must be 3 new kids to Ontario this year on the team to reach the CB number of 23.
As you see, only 8 of Ontario's 23 CB points are of significance this year or next year. Then it's down to 6 in two years.
I'm not going to try to find more information, it's none of my business.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2017 8:40:18 GMT -5
N10 CB numbers: BC=1, CC=8, MO=1, SE=3, BU=3, CA=4, UP=0, WY=3. Notable other schools in the area: Mans ST Pete=27, ONT=23, Pleasant=21, Mans Christ=16 If a CB number of 8 leads someone to believe that CC is recruiting I would just say they are not doing a very good job of it. I know that CC draws a lot of open enroll students from the Bucyrus/Crawford county area. Can't speak for the other N10 schools. I don't know CC's current number, but a couple of years ago it was in excess of 200. If a few of those happen to play BB, and increase the CB number, I think that would be within the law of averages. Same could be said for Ontario open enrollment wise. If CC really does have a high open renrollment rate then 8 is low. And by the way, 8 does keep them in D4. 😄
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Hagen
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Post by Hagen on Dec 11, 2017 9:14:41 GMT -5
Three Sophomores - ... One Open Enrolled from Oak Hill Academy this year, so is sitting out half the games. IMO he will come off the bench when he is eligible. Is this the same kid who left Colonel Crawford for Oak Hill? Did he return?
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 12, 2017 0:01:10 GMT -5
Yes and Yes
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 9:01:04 GMT -5
Three Sophomores - ... One Open Enrolled from Oak Hill Academy this year, so is sitting out half the games. IMO he will come off the bench when he is eligible. Is this the same kid who left Colonel Crawford for Oak Hill? Did he return? Same one. Kid was not happy in is position at CC so he went to Oak Hill and maybe found out just how good he really is. Then he came back to Ohio and enrolled at Ontario Saint Joe.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 13, 2017 16:38:35 GMT -5
More untruths. "Kid's" grandparents didn't see eye to eye with a CC coach, so they paid $33,000 to send him to Oak Hill Academy. He could have came back to Ohio and played for the Sheldon Family Academy and not sit out 11 games. Chose better academics, better coaching and AAU basketball friends.
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Post by portwalk on Dec 13, 2017 21:39:17 GMT -5
Upper upgraded their scrimmage schedule with that band of tiny schools??? Other than Ontario which is in their division look at those cream puffs.. they are D2 again I believe??? Your telling me that D2 schools won’t scrimmage the mighty Rams... kind of explains the loss to the Whippets...
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