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Post by Willard Dad on Jan 1, 2018 8:32:30 GMT -5
The Browns just went 1-15 and 0-16 that means they need help at almost every position. The Browns should trade down with that #1 pick to around #6. The Jets at #6 need a QB they'd be willing to trade up to #1 to get their guy. The Browns must force the Jets to trade their 2nd round pick this year too. That would give the Browns the #4, #6, #33, #35 and #37 picks The Browns need to go out and get Alex Smith as a stop gap at QB With the #4 pick select Minkah Fitzpatrick, Alabama DB With the #6 pick select Roquan Smith, Georgia LB With the #33 pick select BPA With the #35 pick select BPA With the #37 pick select BPA Done correctly and the Browns have a new QB and 5 new starters from the 1st 2 rounds of the draft.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 13:46:57 GMT -5
A huge reason why the Browns stink is because they continue to trade down and most their roster is made up young players. Your idea would just add to both those problems. Not going to happen. Draft qb at 1. I do like the Alex Smith idea though so the number 1 pick sits and learns for a a year or 2
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Post by picabo on Jan 1, 2018 18:44:04 GMT -5
From who is a young quarterback on the Browns team going to learn? They must get a good veteran qb in to help mentor!
They also need an offensive line to protect the qb, as well as receivers that will catch the ball. I definitely think they have some bright spots on the roster - Kizer has his moments, Duke Johnson can be a real stud, Njoku, and Garrett! Their roster is so young! I think that inexperience combined with the losing culture really hurts.
Still a lot of holes - they seem to lose their veteran leaders - releasing Joe Haden, Alex Mack's decision to leave . . .
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 3, 2018 12:53:59 GMT -5
like to see them grab Barkley with the 4th pick and a QB with the #1 overall...if not Darnold then maybe Rosen (who i have not seen any of)
i really REALLY like Drew Lock, QB out of Mizzou, maybe they can grab him in the 2nd if he comes out...
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 3, 2018 12:55:07 GMT -5
From who is a young quarterback on the Browns team going to learn? They must get a good veteran qb in to help mentor! They also need an offensive line to protect the qb, as well as receivers that will catch the ball. I definitely think they have some bright spots on the roster - Kizer has his moments, Duke Johnson can be a real stud, Njoku, and Garrett! Their roster is so young! I think that inexperience combined with the losing culture really hurts. Still a lot of holes - they seem to lose their veteran leaders - releasing Joe Haden, Alex Mack's decision to leave . . . losing Mack stung but Haden was awful, it was fun watching him get burnt by Josh Gordon vs PIT for once instead of watching him get burnt by every team BUT Cleveland
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 3, 2018 12:55:57 GMT -5
oh, and please fire Huge Action, don't let him NEAR our next QB haha
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Post by tommygunn on Jan 3, 2018 13:25:19 GMT -5
Yes lets keep trading down and trading for future pics so we can continue the worst trend in the NFL since 1999. We will never compete without some offensive studs but by all means lets keep drafting defensive players and hope that find some lucky stud in later rounds. Draft the best offensive players on the board with the first 6 pics. That is it. The D will be fine if our O can stay on the field more than 2 minutes at a time.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 3, 2018 18:12:57 GMT -5
You can't convince me the DBs are "fine". After the QB the most important players in the NFL.
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Post by misterbreeze on Jan 3, 2018 18:55:12 GMT -5
They need playmakers on D and O from this draft. A ball-hawking DB, RB (Barkley) a QB (Darnold), and a WR would be nice in the first 4 picks (not necessarily in that order). Plus, get a vet QB on the roster to help Kiser and the new guy.
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Post by brownsfan5819 on Jan 4, 2018 8:48:57 GMT -5
Darnold looked good vs Ohio State
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 4, 2018 11:42:49 GMT -5
You can't convince me the DBs are "fine". After the QB the most important players in the NFL. when is the last time a DB went #1 overall? think you're forgetting DEs and LTs sir
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 4, 2018 11:43:51 GMT -5
They need playmakers on D and O from this draft. A ball-hawking DB, RB (Barkley) a QB (Darnold), and a WR would be nice in the first 4 picks (not necessarily in that order). Plus, get a vet QB on the roster to help Kiser and the new guy. i want Darnold at #1 and Barkley at #4 also have mentioned that i too would like to see Alex Smith or someone this year be our QB and let Darnold and even Kizer sit back and watch
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Post by brownsfan5819 on Jan 4, 2018 13:25:46 GMT -5
take the best player in the draft at # 1 they can get a great QB at 4 Giants will take a QB but doubt the Colts will. The safety from FSU suppose to be the best, not sure I would not take Chubbs from NC State nice bookends on D
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 5, 2018 11:25:31 GMT -5
i gotta watch some video of Rosen he is getting a lot of love
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 5, 2018 19:49:18 GMT -5
You can't convince me the DBs are "fine". After the QB the most important players in the NFL. when is the last time a DB went #1 overall? think you're forgetting DEs and LTs sir PLEASE show us where I said a DB should be a #1 overall draft pick. All I was doing was refuting gunny's thought that the Brown's defense was "fine". There are 4 of 5 DBs on the field at all times, except for goal line situations, if the offense goes with 2 TEs. IF the QB is the most important player on a football team you better have a slew of good coverage guys on the players the QB is throwing passes to. Especially since there are plays that use 5 WR's at one time. Not forgetting anything. I am 100% certain THE first thing DEs and DTs MUST do is stop the run. If they can't do that the QB never has to throw a pass. Heck these days many defenses have a total of only 3 DEs and DTs on the field with 5 DBs. Just using simple math, which position is more important to a defensive TEAM? Not counting special teams.
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 5, 2018 21:59:14 GMT -5
well if your postulation was correct that DBs were the 2nd most important position after QB you would see them drafted higher than DEs but you don't, so your postulation is wrong...my goodness Marshon Lattimore couldn't even crack the top-10 as a top-rated DB from a school that CHURNS out Pro-Bowl DBs
and Miles Garrett wasn't drafted to stop the run, he was drafted to sack the QB...Danny Shelton was drafted to stop the run
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 5, 2018 22:00:03 GMT -5
think i still like Darnold over Rosen, but i would hate to see either circle-jerked around their first year by a desperate head coach
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Post by buckeyekid on Jan 6, 2018 6:37:09 GMT -5
Torch, you know I respect your opinion. What do you like better about Darnold over Rosen? Do you want Barkley at 4 or a DB? Myself,,,without having watched a ton of video but strictly looking at the Browns weakness,,,I'm thinging Crowell leaves so we must grab Barkley and that gives us he and Duke as our primary RB's. If we are in love with Minkah,,,perhaps a trade of some sort to grab him. Might take next years #1 to do it though.
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Post by cbus on Jan 6, 2018 6:45:57 GMT -5
Will Barkley be there at 4? I want Barkley and can live with either of the QB’s.
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Post by Willard Dad on Jan 6, 2018 8:46:51 GMT -5
Sam Darnold admits he has confidence issues. Red flag Josh Rosen has been in concussion protocol for over a month. Red flag Stay away from these 2 head cases. The Browns stink at just about all 22 positions. Trade down from 1 to 6 and grab another 2nd round pick with that trade. They could then trade their 3 second round picks to move back into the Top 10 3 Top 10 picks But we are talking about the Browns so they will waste the #1 pick on a head case QB like Darnold or Rosen.
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Post by CEOSouth on Jan 6, 2018 11:01:27 GMT -5
I think Lamar Jackson goes flying up draft boards after the combine. Decent potential to see 5 QBs go in the first round. Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield, Jackson.
I think if Hue gets his way: 1. Barkley 4. L. Jackson
If Dorsey gets his way: 1. Darnold 4. Fitzpatrick
I think there’s damn near zero chance they trade out of 1 and a very small chance they trade down from 4. I think there’s a better chance they trade up from 4 to get Darnold/Barkley combo.
Unless he posts subpar combine stats, I don’t think Barkley makes it past Indy at 3. I think Rosen is a lock at 2.
I think I’m still on the Darnold train. I’ve all but fell off the Rosen train. I think Rosen can be a good NFL QB, but he’s a terrible fit in Cleveland, and none of that has to do with skill set. USCs offensive line has been abysmal all year, further cemented in the Cotton Bowl. If you watched the Buckeyes bowl game and came away thinking Darnold is terrible instead of USC OL is terrible, I think you should watch more football.
Regardless of who they draft at QB, I expect to probably see someone like Alex Smith or Case Keenam to be the starter in CLE next year.
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Post by CEOSouth on Jan 6, 2018 11:17:46 GMT -5
well if your postulation was correct that DBs were the 2nd most important position after QB you would see them drafted higher than DEs but you don't, so your postulation is wrong...my goodness Marshon Lattimore couldn't even crack the top-10 as a top-rated DB from a school that CHURNS out Pro-Bowl DBs and Miles Garrett wasn't drafted to stop the run, he was drafted to sack the QB...Danny Shelton was drafted to stop the run Interesting debate you guys have here on DB/DE, I’ll offer some input. Suppose there are 744 college football teams. Assuming 3 DBs, and 2 dE, that’s a pool of 2,232 DBs and 1,488 DEs. Let’s assume also that 1percent of players turn into NFL starters. That’s 22 starting DBs and 14 starting DEs. Numbers alone say DE are more valuable and harder to find. If you were drafting 5 players, the numbers would be a wash, but we’re only considering drafting 1 in this simulation. Combine that with the fact that DBs, more than DEs, are more system dependent....a subpar DB can be a par DB in the right system. DEs are generally good or they are not. All in all, a top flight DE will generally go higher than a top flight DB Just my thoughts. I’m sure you could find some studies on it that may blow this post apart. It would be interesting to see a comparison in late round DBs vs late round DEs. It always seems that good DBs can be found late in the draft, yet I have a hard time thinking of good DEs that come late in the draft.
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Post by misterbreeze on Jan 6, 2018 12:29:54 GMT -5
I think Lamar Jackson goes flying up draft boards after the combine. Decent potential to see 5 QBs go in the first round. Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield, Jackson. I think if Hue gets his way: 1. Barkley 4. L. Jackson If Dorsey gets his way: 1. Darnold 4. Fitzpatrick I think there’s damn near zero chance they trade out of 1 and a very small chance they trade down from 4. I think there’s a better chance they trade up from 4 to get Darnold/Barkley combo. Unless he posts subpar combine stats, I don’t think Barkley makes it past Indy at 3. I think Rosen is a lock at 2. I think I’m still on the Darnold train. I’ve all but fell off the Rosen train. I think Rosen can be a good NFL QB, but he’s a terrible fit in Cleveland, and none of that has to do with skill set. USCs offensive line has been abysmal all year, further cemented in the Cotton Bowl. If you watched the Buckeyes bowl game and came away thinking Darnold is terrible instead of USC OL is terrible, I think you should watch more football. Regardless of who they draft at QB, I expect to probably see someone like Alex Smith or Case Keenam to be the starter in CLE next year. I agree with your thinking. I also wonder if Sam Bradford becomes a consideration as a bridge QB. A risk of taking Barkley 1 before Darnold at 4 is being scooped by another team. If Darnold is the man, go get him before someone else (Broncos) trades up for him. Who knows, NYG might favor him over Rosen. I could see them moving up to 3 for Barkley.
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 6, 2018 12:57:53 GMT -5
well if your postulation was correct that DBs were the 2nd most important position after QB you would see them drafted higher than DEs but you don't, so your postulation is wrong...my goodness Marshon Lattimore couldn't even crack the top-10 as a top-rated DB from a school that CHURNS out Pro-Bowl DBs and Miles Garrett wasn't drafted to stop the run, he was drafted to sack the QB...Danny Shelton was drafted to stop the run Interesting debate you guys have here on DB/DE, I’ll offer some input. Suppose there are 744 college football teams. Assuming 3 DBs, and 2 dE, that’s a pool of 2,232 DBs and 1,488 DEs. Let’s assume also that 1percent of players turn into NFL starters. That’s 22 starting DBs and 14 starting DEs. Numbers alone say DE are more valuable and harder to find. If you were drafting 5 players, the numbers would be a wash, but we’re only considering drafting 1 in this simulation. Combine that with the fact that DBs, more than DEs, are more system dependent....a subpar DB can be a par DB in the right system. DEs are generally good or they are not. All in all, a top flight DE will generally go higher than a top flight DB Just my thoughts. I’m sure you could find some studies on it that may blow this post apart. It would be interesting to see a comparison in late round DBs vs late round DEs. It always seems that good DBs can be found late in the draft, yet I have a hard time thinking of good DEs that come late in the draft. I think if you ask DCs/HCs what the most important ability any defender can possess is, most will answer the ability to sack the QB. DBs are important but you can hide bad/mediocre/average DBs with a great pass rush, (see NYG circa 2008, 20012)...but if you give any NFL WR 5-8 seconds to uncover, they most often times will.
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 6, 2018 12:58:32 GMT -5
and for the record I have no prob if we were to draft Fitzpatrick #4 overall, DBs are important, especially shutdown corners
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Post by CEOSouth on Jan 6, 2018 13:03:25 GMT -5
Agreed. If: CLE-Barkley NYG-Rosen/Darnold I think: DEN/NYJ via IND-Rosen/Darnold CLE-Would be forced to take a QB here, even though they should probably BPA. I don't think this is a position CLE wants to be in, where they miss on two of the top rated QBs and are forced to overdraft the best QB available instead of the BPA. Media would lose their minds on CLE, desperate for a QB, missing on the top two. Whether that is valid or not, I don't see Dorsey wanting to go down that road. You get the top rated QB, and if he fails, it takes some of the apparent blame off of you. It could be a hindrance and handcuff you in some ways, but this really isn't a time the FO can afford to get cute. If: CLE-Darnold NYG-Rosen IND-Barkley CLE-I don't think IND passes on Barkley, and I also don't think CLE moves up to get him either, conjuring the ghost of Trent Richardson. I think CLE goes DB/Safety/maybe OT and targets someone like Bryce Love later in the draft. I'd guess Dorsey will use more draft assets to go get some veteran players rather than move around in the draft. Granted, all of this is way too early conjecture. It is the 6th of January. ....as is the life of a Browns fan.
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 6, 2018 13:15:59 GMT -5
INDY has to get some O-Line help, they HAVE to.
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Post by CEOSouth on Jan 6, 2018 13:20:19 GMT -5
INDY has to get some O-Line help, they HAVE to. I agree with that and I think that would be the motivating factor in moving down if Barkley isn't there. Outside of stud LTs, OL is a position where you can find serviceable players after the 1st round. It seems like even the best C, G and RTs have a hard time breaking the top 10-15.
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 6, 2018 13:33:13 GMT -5
agreed
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Post by picabo on Jan 6, 2018 18:45:31 GMT -5
I think I’m still on the Darnold train. I’ve all but fell off the Rosen train. I think Rosen can be a good NFL QB, but he’s a terrible fit in Cleveland, and none of that has to do with skill set. USCs offensive line has been abysmal all year, further cemented in the Cotton Bowl. If you watched the Buckeyes bowl game and came away thinking Darnold is terrible instead of USC OL is terrible, I think you should watch more football.Regardless of who they draft at QB, I expect to probably see someone like Alex Smith or Case Keenam to be the starter in CLE next year. But isn't this the problem - Cleveland's OL is horrible! Quarterbacks do not want to come to Cleveland because they know they won't be protected. If you do not get protection for your quarterback, no QB is going to be successful at Cleveland!
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