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Post by CEOSouth on Jan 6, 2018 19:09:36 GMT -5
But isn't this the problem - Cleveland's OL is horrible! Quarterbacks do not want to come to Cleveland because they know they won't be protected. If you do not get protection for your quarterback, no QB is going to be successful at Cleveland! I agree that if you don't protect your QB, no QB is going to be successful. I don't agree that Clevelands OL is horrible and the main source of problems. Thomas is legit(if healthy) but aging Bitonio is a Pro Bowl Alternate this year Tretter and Zeitler are solid when healthy RT is a hole It's hard to say that the main issue this year wasn't Kizer. He's got an arm, and showed some flashes, but his inaccuracy is an issue and led to far too many INTs, especially Red Zone INTs. Completing 53% of your passes and throwing 6 Red Zone INTs, 4 of which were inside the 10, will find you a bench real soon in the NFL. I've seen some mocks that had the Browns taking an LT(I think the LT from ND) at 4 to eventually replace Thomas. It may be wise to draft one and play him at RT until Thomas retires, but with the talent at the top of this draft, and an apparent light LT class this year, they better make sure he's the guy.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 6, 2018 23:22:29 GMT -5
well if your postulation was correct that DBs were the 2nd most important position after QB you would see them drafted higher than DEs but you don't, so your postulation is wrong...my goodness Marshon Lattimore couldn't even crack the top-10 as a top-rated DB from a school that CHURNS out Pro-Bowl DBs and Miles Garrett wasn't drafted to stop the run, he was drafted to sack the QB...Danny Shelton was drafted to stop the run Do you actually read what is written? My ONLY contention was that tommyg was incorrect when he said the Browns defense was "fine". I pointed out their DB's were FAR from "fine". THE single worst component of the Browns defense was their DBs. Explain to us why the Browns were the first team in League history that felt a dire need to play a Safety 15-20 behind the line of scrimmage? To me that says they had the worst Corners in the League. Even the greatest DEs in the history of the NFL don't get to the QB on every pass play. THUS you must have DBs who can cover. <iframe width="24.720000000000027" height="3.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 24.72px; height: 3.88px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1171px; top: -250px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_46659564"></iframe> <iframe width="24.720000000000027" height="3.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 24.72px; height: 3.88px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 10px; top: -110px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_17708971"></iframe> <iframe width="24.720000000000027" height="3.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 24.72px; height: 3.88px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1171px; top: -110px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_5616150"></iframe> You prove my point, the Browns supposedly have a pass rusher if he stays healthy and a run stopper. They need A LOT of DBs, often 5 are played at a the same time and only 3 D-Linemen are played. And the Browns DBs are bad.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 6, 2018 23:26:02 GMT -5
Agreed. If: CLE-Barkley NYG-Rosen/Darnold I think: DEN/NYJ via IND-Rosen/Darnold CLE-Would be forced to take a QB here, even though they should probably BPA. I don't think this is a position CLE wants to be in, where they miss on two of the top rated QBs and are forced to overdraft the best QB available instead of the BPA. Media would lose their minds on CLE, desperate for a QB, missing on the top two. Whether that is valid or not, I don't see Dorsey wanting to go down that road. You get the top rated QB, and if he fails, it takes some of the apparent blame off of you. It could be a hindrance and handcuff you in some ways, but this really isn't a time the FO can afford to get cute. If: CLE-Darnold NYG-Rosen IND-Barkley CLE-I don't think IND passes on Barkley, and I also don't think CLE moves up to get him either, conjuring the ghost of Trent Richardson. I think CLE goes DB/Safety/maybe OT and targets someone like Bryce Love later in the draft. I'd guess Dorsey will use more draft assets to go get some veteran players rather than move around in the draft. Granted, all of this is way too early conjecture. It is the 6th of January. ....as is the life of a Browns fan. Torch would NEVER EVER agree to take a DB at #4. They aren't important, even when your DB's a terrible.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 6, 2018 23:29:24 GMT -5
I think Lamar Jackson goes flying up draft boards after the combine. Decent potential to see 5 QBs go in the first round. Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield, Jackson. I think if Hue gets his way: 1. Barkley 4. L. Jackson If Dorsey gets his way: 1. Darnold 4. Fitzpatrick I think there’s damn near zero chance they trade out of 1 and a very small chance they trade down from 4. I think there’s a better chance they trade up from 4 to get Darnold/Barkley combo. Unless he posts subpar combine stats, I don’t think Barkley makes it past Indy at 3. I think Rosen is a lock at 2. I think I’m still on the Darnold train. I’ve all but fell off the Rosen train. I think Rosen can be a good NFL QB, but he’s a terrible fit in Cleveland, and none of that has to do with skill set. USCs offensive line has been abysmal all year, further cemented in the Cotton Bowl. If you watched the Buckeyes bowl game and came away thinking Darnold is terrible instead of USC OL is terrible, I think you should watch more football. Regardless of who they draft at QB, I expect to probably see someone like Alex Smith or Case Keenam to be the starter in CLE next year. I don't think Hue is going to get his way on ANYTHING in this draft. He would be smart to just sit there with his mouth shut and shake his head yes. If he wants to coach beyond mid-season next year.
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 7, 2018 7:23:28 GMT -5
Agreed. If: CLE-Barkley NYG-Rosen/Darnold I think: DEN/NYJ via IND-Rosen/Darnold CLE-Would be forced to take a QB here, even though they should probably BPA. I don't think this is a position CLE wants to be in, where they miss on two of the top rated QBs and are forced to overdraft the best QB available instead of the BPA. Media would lose their minds on CLE, desperate for a QB, missing on the top two. Whether that is valid or not, I don't see Dorsey wanting to go down that road. You get the top rated QB, and if he fails, it takes some of the apparent blame off of you. It could be a hindrance and handcuff you in some ways, but this really isn't a time the FO can afford to get cute. If: CLE-Darnold NYG-Rosen IND-Barkley CLE-I don't think IND passes on Barkley, and I also don't think CLE moves up to get him either, conjuring the ghost of Trent Richardson. I think CLE goes DB/Safety/maybe OT and targets someone like Bryce Love later in the draft. I'd guess Dorsey will use more draft assets to go get some veteran players rather than move around in the draft. Granted, all of this is way too early conjecture. It is the 6th of January. ....as is the life of a Browns fan. Torch would NEVER EVER agree to take a DB at #4. They aren't important, even when your DB's a terrible. lol i guess you missed my last post
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 7, 2018 16:50:01 GMT -5
Then you're negating you postulate that DBs aren't important. Isn't there any good DE's in this draft?
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 7, 2018 19:32:55 GMT -5
i never said they weren't important, just not the 2nd most important, because they aren't
LT and DE will always be more important than DB, there has never been a DB drafted #1 overall but there have been LTs and DEs drafted #1 overall. That's the proof.
wanna try again?
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Post by tommygunn on Jan 8, 2018 17:41:53 GMT -5
If we don't get offensive weapons, we will continue to blow. 1999-present is my proof.
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 9, 2018 13:38:22 GMT -5
you mean like Kellen Winslow and Braylon Edwards and Trent Richardson?
wait a minute...
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 17, 2018 16:18:58 GMT -5
Browns, don't take a QB with your 4 picks in the first 2 rounds.
Look who the QBs are for the NFL teams in the semi-finals of the NFL playoffs. Nick Foles a 3rd round pick, Blake Bortles considered the worst starting QB in the NFL, Wes Lunt an undrafted free agent. Tom Brady a 6th round pick.
If you have good players around your QB on offense and a sound defense an average or late round pick can get you to the Division Finals.
I don't expect another team in the history of the NFL to draft a QB in the 6th round and have him turn out to be the best QB in NFL history
With that being said, last year Kizor was the latest of many QBs that was going to lead the Browns out of purgatory. Whoever that QB is going to be, a free agent or an average QB. There are 23 other starters, if they're among the better players in the league the TEAM will improve. And quicker than continually wasting first round picks on QBs. At this point a .500 record will make a season enjoyable. Use your 10 picks in the first 5 rounds to draft a new half of a team.
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 17, 2018 16:41:46 GMT -5
no one pegged the Kaiser as a savior boss, he was a 2nd round pick, if you want a playoff caliber QB in the NFL you gotta pony up, not go cheap
Foles is a backup who sat behind Wentz. Foles didn't lead Philly anywhere, this is his 2nd go around with the team. The Eagles starting QB is Carson Wentz, who was the 2nd overall pick. Bortles was the 3rd overall pick.
In summation, the playoffs this year include:
TEN Marcus Mariotta 2nd overall KC Alex Smith 1st overall
ATL Matt Ryan 1st overall LA Jared Goff 1st overall
BUF Tyrod Taylor 6th round JAX Blake Bortles 3rd overall
CAR Cam Newton 1st overall NO Drew Brees 1st pick of the 2nd round
NE Tom Brady 6th round PIT Ben Roethlisberger 11th overall
MIN Case Keenum UDFA (who is his team's 3rd string QB, Sam Bradford was their starter, he was a #1 overall pick) PHI Carson Wents 2nd overall
Wanna try on a late round QB again boss? This is the "smartest guy in the room" mentality that has BF'd Cleveland for the last 15 years. Stop trading down. Get an elite prospect AND DEVELOP HIM.
Nice try tho.
LOSS.
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 17, 2018 16:44:09 GMT -5
9/12 were the 11th pick or higher
8/12 were top-3 in the draft
rofl
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 17, 2018 23:19:59 GMT -5
The QBs for TEN, KC, ATL, LA, BUF, CAR, NO, PIT, didn't get their teams as far IN THE PLAYOFFS as the TEAM around Foles did, winning their 2 biggest games, Cardalesque.
Bortles is consider the worst starting QB in the NFL, the TEAM around him got them to the NFL Semi-Finals.
Keenun, is an undrafted free agent playing QB for a very good Vikings TEAM.
Brady was a 6th round pick.
Donald will be the youngest QB drafted in NFL history. No QB for the Browns is going to get the them even to .500 until a TEAM is built for them to play with.
Other than grandpa Brady. The other three teams got to the NFL Semi-Finals NOT because of their QB, rather because of the TEAM around them.
AGAIN, in this instance it is proven that the QB is not the SOLE reason for having a very good season.
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Post by galion on Jan 18, 2018 8:51:17 GMT -5
Bortles is a former 1st round pick. Jax is still in the playoffs because Pitt literally handed them 21 points and they still only won by 3. Min and Phil DID NOT start the season with either of those 2 as the 1st string guy. Those are both back up qb's playing because of injury. Both teams has 1st round picks pegged as their starters. If you can guarantee me that your team will have a top 5 defense every year and a top tier o line free from injury then by all means go ahead and bargain shop for a qb. Otherwise you might want to find a playmaker at the position and not a caretaker.
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 18, 2018 9:32:09 GMT -5
i dunno if Darnold or Rosen or Allen is the guy, or someone else, it's hard to evaluate college qbs imho...i just know history says that you DO generally need a QB who was a 1st round talent to win in the NFL
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Post by DrTorch on Jan 18, 2018 9:33:17 GMT -5
say what you want about Bortles but the Jags do NOT make the playoffs without him, they do not make a Title Game with Blaine Gabbert either
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Post by CEOSouth on Mar 1, 2018 11:08:26 GMT -5
I think Lamar Jackson goes flying up draft boards after the combine. Lamar Jackson checks in at just an inch shorter and only 5 lbs lighter than Darnold. Makes you wonder about all the goons saying he’s too short or too slight. And his HaNdS ArE BiGgEr FoLkS!
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Post by buckeyekid on Mar 7, 2018 7:49:24 GMT -5
My Wish- Barkley #1 Rosen or Darnold #4 whomever is still there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2018 8:46:05 GMT -5
The Browns need to take which ever qb they think is the best and one of the three between Barkley, Chubb and Fitzpatrick. It doesn’t matter where they are drafted. If you draft Barkley at one you aren’t getting Darnold (Giants).
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 7, 2018 15:55:00 GMT -5
The Super Bowl QB was drafted in the 3rd round. There's a clause in Foles 3 year contract that says he can become a free agent if he's on the Eagles roster 11 months from now. I would think the Eagles would want to get as much as possible for him before he becomes a free agent.
What would you give up to get a Super Bowl QB.....OR must it be true that the TEAM around the QB has a great deal to do with making him a Super Bowl QB?
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Post by DrTorch on Mar 7, 2018 17:04:20 GMT -5
All in on Barkley at #1.
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Post by cbus on Mar 8, 2018 6:20:24 GMT -5
Yes!! Plus I hope they can maneuver and get an extra pick plus Lamar Jackson. I'm beginning to think the top QB's are not worth a #4 pick. Lamar's athletic ability will solve some of the O-line problems (see Deshaun Watson).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 7:16:15 GMT -5
The likelihood of them picking Barkley at #1 are very slim. Dorsey was hired to find their franchise qb
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Post by DrTorch on Mar 8, 2018 12:16:23 GMT -5
they can find a franchise QB at #4, and having Barkley will help the QBs development
not a big fan of RBs at #1 either, but that is who I would take
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 12:25:35 GMT -5
they can find a franchise QB at #4, and having Barkley will help the QBs development not a big fan of RBs at #1 either, but that is who I would take Can they find one at 4? Yes, but not necessarily the one they want. Not sure what the big deal is with Barkley. Rather non-existent in their 2 loses this year
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Post by DrTorch on Mar 8, 2018 13:33:49 GMT -5
BENCH PRESS Saquon Barkley: 29 reps Joe Thomas: 28 reps
10-YARD DASH Saquon Barkley: 1.54 seconds DeShaun Jackson: 1.55 seconds
40-YARD DASH Saquon Barkley: 4.40 seconds Devin Hester: 4.43 seconds
VERTICAL JUMP Saquon Barkley: 41" Julio Jones: 38.5"
Those numbers would be the big deal about Barkley, fyi.
(thanks to CEOSouth for the combine numbers!)
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Post by galion on Mar 8, 2018 13:58:02 GMT -5
With the cap space at they have available they should get one of the free agent qb's and use their first 2 picks on Barkley and whoever the best available OL is at 4.
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Post by DrTorch on Mar 8, 2018 14:44:40 GMT -5
Why would a FA qb sign with Cleveland?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 16:36:32 GMT -5
Why would anyone sign with them? If they take an OL with the 4th pick I’m done. Congrats on Barkley winning the Underwear Olympics
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Post by DrTorch on Mar 8, 2018 18:59:20 GMT -5
Really. After all the crap the Browns have done, drafting an OL at #4 would be what drives you away?
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