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Norwalk
Jan 10, 2018 21:00:22 GMT -5
Post by Whittaker on Jan 10, 2018 21:00:22 GMT -5
Coaches invest so much of themselves in their teams. It is personal to them. Of course they are going to yell. And of course players are going to take it personally - they are invested in the game. Sports are emotional. The adrenaline is already high due to the nature of competition. What is said in a time-out or in the locker room or screamed out onto the court is not meant to belittle. . . it is meant to get the players' attention - refocus the players. As parents, we hurt for our children in many situations. We do not want to see our child get yelled at by others. However, we are hurting them when we shield them from life's lessons. Touching a player to move them into position is not abuse. Screaming onto a court or getting into a face or two is not abuse. We pervert and insult real victims of abuse when we equate these situations with abuse. All true. But there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. And those line have moved from where they were 30, 40 and 50 years ago. Coaches shouldn't be using filthy language in front of fans. Coaches shouldn't call kids lazy MF's or racial slurs or badmouth their parents. And coaches shouldn't man-handle kids in anger to scare them or to demonstrate authority. All that was tolerated to a larger extent back in the day. My guess is that the majority of the commenters are right and Gray is innocent of all of this. But moneyball has a point in the general sense. Times, they are a changin'
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Norwalk
Jan 10, 2018 22:24:22 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by moneyball on Jan 10, 2018 22:24:22 GMT -5
Everyone saying it's a law, please post this law? Conduct unbecoming in the Code of Ethics Education Standards.
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Norwalk
Jan 10, 2018 22:37:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mrsteel on Jan 10, 2018 22:37:52 GMT -5
Everyone saying it's a law, please post this law? Conduct unbecoming in the Code of Ethics Education Standards. You have nothing? Please post this.
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Norwalk
Jan 10, 2018 22:49:19 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 22:49:19 GMT -5
Everyone saying it's a law, please post this law? Conduct unbecoming in the Code of Ethics Education Standards. Would that be an Education Law?
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Norwalk
Jan 10, 2018 23:25:36 GMT -5
Post by Observer on Jan 10, 2018 23:25:36 GMT -5
Picabo, well said. Both posts very well said.
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Norwalk
Jan 10, 2018 23:52:50 GMT -5
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Post by unconcernedcitizen on Jan 10, 2018 23:52:50 GMT -5
Conduct unbecoming in the Code of Ethics Education Standards. Would that be an Education Law? He has nothing he pulled that out of thin air
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 1:19:58 GMT -5
Post by greenman on Jan 11, 2018 1:19:58 GMT -5
Everyone saying it's a law, please post this law? Conduct unbecoming in the Code of Ethics Education Standards. Educator here. This isn't a thing. Throwing jargon words together and hoping they stick is kind of lazy. Thanks for playing.
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 5:36:53 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 5:36:53 GMT -5
I think most people are missing the point here. SNOWFLAKE ALERT!!!
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 6:45:28 GMT -5
Post by kingmartinez on Jan 11, 2018 6:45:28 GMT -5
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 7:01:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 7:01:35 GMT -5
A thing? The request was to provide the law that makes it illegal in a sport's event setting to take hold of a player's jersey and move them.
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berg19
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 10:34:16 GMT -5
Post by berg19 on Jan 11, 2018 10:34:16 GMT -5
I really think race has nothing to do with the issue going on here, its simple the JV coach wanted to cut him last year because did not help the team, and was not coach-able, so coach Gray put him on Varsity and gave him every opportunity, but as last season and the off season program went on it became apparent that the kid in question was not as good as he thought or acted that he was. no hustle showed up out of shape, played no defense shot the ball every time he touched it but was never making shots even when not open, had even digressed from the limited time they gave him last year. He was given every if not more opportunity to succeed but it was apparent the his playing time should be limited. Every player is told there roll after the practice and scrimmages what kind of time they will get. Practice has a lot to do with it and when you don't listen in practice or dog it then your not going to find time on the floor on Gray's team.
On a side note, at least 80% of the accusers in this situation got in trouble at a party hosted by they kid in question with alcohol and drugs.
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 12:55:50 GMT -5
Post by portwalk on Jan 11, 2018 12:55:50 GMT -5
You're probably right port, I don't know the man personally and have not seen them in person the last 4 years. I'm surmising as much from looking at scores and reading what's left of the NOSF crowd. I worry for the future of HS sports. We have our own issues in our town too. When I read stories about a number of 8th grade kids not showing up for practice during Christmas break. Beautiful gym,,,nothing to do over break anyway,,,and then just skip practice. Awful. Different day and age than you and I grew up in too bad in many ways. Kids are not being prepared for their futures with the participation trophy mentality. Life is competition and there will be wins and losses its about learning to deal and move forward...
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 13:27:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mrsteel on Jan 11, 2018 13:27:35 GMT -5
You're probably right port, I don't know the man personally and have not seen them in person the last 4 years. I'm surmising as much from looking at scores and reading what's left of the NOSF crowd. I worry for the future of HS sports. We have our own issues in our town too. When I read stories about a number of 8th grade kids not showing up for practice during Christmas break. Beautiful gym,,,nothing to do over break anyway,,,and then just skip practice. Awful. Different day and age than you and I grew up in too bad in many ways. Kids are not being prepared for their futures with the participation trophy mentality. Life is competition and there will be wins and losses its about learning to deal and move forward... You are correct here. Is it any wonder these kids need safe rooms and coloring books in colleges? They should name this the pathetic generation. Lord help us!
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Post by buckeyekid on Jan 11, 2018 15:13:42 GMT -5
I can't pinpoint when the respect for teachers and coaches went away,,,and the not being able to grab someone and physically move them---but my guess is when the fear of getting a smack on the behind by the Principal went away,,,
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ScottT
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 16:00:33 GMT -5
Post by ScottT on Jan 11, 2018 16:00:33 GMT -5
I feel a rant building...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 16:23:19 GMT -5
Thankfully these kids nor their parents won't be serving our country or trying to protect our freedoms. If they can't handle something as simple of being part of a basketball team, They would never be able to handle being in the military.
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 16:47:34 GMT -5
Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 11, 2018 16:47:34 GMT -5
Coaches invest so much of themselves in their teams. It is personal to them. Of course they are going to yell. And of course players are going to take it personally - they are invested in the game. Sports are emotional. The adrenaline is already high due to the nature of competition. What is said in a time-out or in the locker room or screamed out onto the court is not meant to belittle. . . it is meant to get the players' attention - refocus the players. As parents, we hurt for our children in many situations. We do not want to see our child get yelled at by others. However, we are hurting them when we shield them from life's lessons. Touching a player to move them into position is not abuse. Screaming onto a court or getting into a face or two is not abuse. We pervert and insult real victims of abuse when we equate these situations with abuse. This isn’t about screaming and getting a players attention, it is about grabbing a player out of anger. When I played football I can't tell you how many kids got grabbed by the face mask to get their attention when the coach was angry with them. Again, YOU have aided and abetted the wussafication of this generation.
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 19:12:37 GMT -5
Post by deathfromabove on Jan 11, 2018 19:12:37 GMT -5
Coaches invest so much of themselves in their teams. It is personal to them. Of course they are going to yell. And of course players are going to take it personally - they are invested in the game. Sports are emotional. The adrenaline is already high due to the nature of competition. What is said in a time-out or in the locker room or screamed out onto the court is not meant to belittle. . . it is meant to get the players' attention - refocus the players. As parents, we hurt for our children in many situations. We do not want to see our child get yelled at by others. However, we are hurting them when we shield them from life's lessons. Touching a player to move them into position is not abuse. Screaming onto a court or getting into a face or two is not abuse. We pervert and insult real victims of abuse when we equate these situations with abuse. picabo, you had the same kind of coaches that I had. My coaches would yell and they would grab me by my jersey but they never did insult me or they never did hit or punch me. Sure it was embarrassing but it was teaching me a lesson and I learned from it. I also can say that the coaches that I had not one of them ever grab one of us football players by the facemask and yank it around like what Woody Hayes used to do. Just like your dad told you (and god bless him for it) the coach would not have done it if he/she didn't care about you and your learning.
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 19:28:45 GMT -5
Post by deathfromabove on Jan 11, 2018 19:28:45 GMT -5
Picabo, If I remember right even though I never had your dad as a coach I think he told me the same thing that he told you. I am very proud to have known your dad and the things he gave to me as advice. The same things that my dad had taught me.
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 19:31:43 GMT -5
Post by deathfromabove on Jan 11, 2018 19:31:43 GMT -5
I feel a rant building... Scott, see what your missing out on by moving to Van Wert. ROFL
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Post by ScarletFever on Jan 11, 2018 21:05:25 GMT -5
I suggest coach Gray be put on double secret probation
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Norwalk
Jan 11, 2018 21:33:43 GMT -5
Post by scout15 on Jan 11, 2018 21:33:43 GMT -5
Hell, I wish this lady could come sit in my quarterly sales meetings. Gray would sound like a saint!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 5:49:02 GMT -5
For a change I wish someone would tell this lady to SHUT UP!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 5:49:49 GMT -5
I really think race has nothing to do with the issue going on here, its simple the JV coach wanted to cut him last year because did not help the team, and was not coach-able, so coach Gray put him on Varsity and gave him every opportunity, but as last season and the off season program went on it became apparent that the kid in question was not as good as he thought or acted that he was. no hustle showed up out of shape, played no defense shot the ball every time he touched it but was never making shots even when not open, had even digressed from the limited time they gave him last year. He was given every if not more opportunity to succeed but it was apparent the his playing time should be limited. Every player is told there roll after the practice and scrimmages what kind of time they will get. Practice has a lot to do with it and when you don't listen in practice or dog it then your not going to find time on the floor on Gray's team. On a side note, at least 80% of the accusers in this situation got in trouble at a party hosted by they kid in question with alcohol and drugs. Sounds like the only mistake Coach Gray made was giving the kid extra chances.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 12, 2018 15:57:07 GMT -5
Chris Holtmann, the new bball coach at Ohio State(for the not knowledgeable mothers) was asked in the post game press conference about the timeout he called when Maryland was up by 7 early in the first half last night. He said something to the affect, "Wellll.... I can't use the exact words that were said, but the players got the message that I was not happy about their effort on defense and attention to detail". He's a lot younger than Coach Gray, his players aren't much older than Coach Gray's. A coach MUST get the attention of players when they aren't playing hard or not doing what they have been coached to do over and over and over......again. If coaches, when upset, just whispered niceties to players, the SERIOUS players would laugh at how "un coach like" it was.
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Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 1:06:26 GMT -5
Post by deathfromabove on Jan 13, 2018 1:06:26 GMT -5
kingmartinez, Those I do believe are just codes of conduct and not really any laws at all. There are schools that will enforce those rules on some but if it comes to their sports program, they will look the other way(ie. Massillon and others). King, I wish these rules wouldn't exist but I do see them putting them in there because everybody is so sue happy these days. You just brush a kid these days here comes a law suit. We need to get rid of all these lawyers and get back to the way it was with the paddle (or as we called my dads wooden one, his Board of Education when he taught school).
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Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 2:33:31 GMT -5
Post by greenman on Jan 13, 2018 2:33:31 GMT -5
kingmartinez, Those I do believe are just codes of conduct and not really any laws at all... This. Subjective language abounds, very open to interpretation, and not codified in ORC. Also, just because you want him terminated doesn't mean that what he did is a terminable offense. This is all assuming, of course, that he's even actually guilty to begin with.
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Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 8:07:31 GMT -5
Post by kingmartinez on Jan 13, 2018 8:07:31 GMT -5
Correct - not "law". Here are the posts I was following up from:
moneyball: Conduct unbecoming in the Code of Ethics Education Standards.
greenman: Educator here. This isn't a thing. Throwing jargon words together and hoping they stick is kind of lazy. Thanks for playing. ---------------------------------------------
It should be noted that violations of any of these "standards" does subject an educator to the discipline by the ODE, which could include revoking or suspension of their license and/or coaching permit. These are a big deal in the education world. Unfortunately, there's at least one educator who wasn't aware these existed.
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Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 8:36:14 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 8:36:14 GMT -5
king, to be fair the comments were stating a law and when asked for proof, Snowflake provided a code of conduct. The response then was, this was not a thing, understood to mean the code is not a law. Also, the code is a "big deal" only if the school administration says it is. Some use it as more of a guide and not rules of operation. If every teacher or coach who moved a kid into position on the court, in the classroom or in a hallway, would go in front of ODE for discipline the ODE would need to triple in size.
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Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 10:52:30 GMT -5
Post by moneyball on Jan 13, 2018 10:52:30 GMT -5
king, to be fair the comments were stating a law and when asked for proof, Snowflake provided a code of conduct. The response then was, this was not a thing, understood to mean the code is not a law. Also, the code is a "big deal" only if the school administration says it is. Some use it as more of a guide and not rules of operation. If every teacher or coach who moved a kid into position on the court, in the classroom or in a hallway, would go in front of ODE for discipline the ODE would need to triple in size. All I know is some people can overstep when they get angry. I think Norwalk has a good program and a good coaching staff. Whether he did or did not put his hands on the player isn't up to me to decide or for that matter, care. All I'm saying is if a coach oversteps, admit it and move on, it happens. If there is a pattern it needs corrected. I don't have any issue with a player getting ripped for lack of hustle or effort and tugging on a jersey to move a player here or there, it isn't anything I would consider offensive, if done in the right frame of mind.
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