|
Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 11:05:41 GMT -5
Post by greenman on Jan 13, 2018 11:05:41 GMT -5
king, to be fair the comments were stating a law and when asked for proof, Snowflake provided a code of conduct. The response then was, this was not a thing, understood to mean the code is not a law. Also, the code is a "big deal" only if the school administration says it is. Some use it as more of a guide and not rules of operation. If every teacher or coach who moved a kid into position on the court, in the classroom or in a hallway, would go in front of ODE for discipline the ODE would need to triple in size. Exactly - "Code of Conduct" I obviously know about - good call, king - but if king were indeed paying attention, we were told constantly that Gray was violating some "law." The Code of Conduct as law IS. NOT. A. THING. There's enough subjective language in there, too, if you read it, that gives that away. Teachers generally don't need to touch students in their capacity as teachers, or outside school; kids that try to high-five me have ALWAYS been left hanging. Just how I prefer to do things. None of this surprises me. A mother is dead-set on ruining a man's reputation and livelihood because she failed to raise a child with the moral fiber to follow a few reasonable rules of civilized society. Without meeting any kind of burden of proof that these allegations are true, an army flocks to her side.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 13:47:31 GMT -5
Post by deathfromabove on Jan 13, 2018 13:47:31 GMT -5
kingmartinez, Those I do believe are just codes of conduct and not really any laws at all... This. Subjective language abounds, very open to interpretation, and not codified in ORC. Also, just because you want him terminated doesn't mean that what he did is a terminable offense. This is all assuming, of course, that he's even actually guilty to begin with. Greenman, If you looked back at any of my posts, you will not, I REPEAT NOT, find anything about that I want to FIRE Coach Grey. I really like what he has done for our program and I think he is a very fine person. Stop trying to put words in mine and other peoples mouth or someday you might learn to regret it. Those codes of conduct are fine as they are written and are meant to be use as some sort of guild lines for the teachers and staff. That is all they are and if I remember right they are suppose to be sign by them, but do not quote me on that. King thank you for explaining it a little better and Dude you are right if every thing that is done like that we need a bigger ODE, but I think that if something would happen it will and should go through the steps first, I.E. the principle, the school board and so on and so on, and it could be rejected or advance any further. Just like our court system. Anyway that's the way I see it and Greenman, I do not want Coach Grey terminated.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 18:20:26 GMT -5
Post by galion on Jan 13, 2018 18:20:26 GMT -5
Actually, the administration does not have to report or enforce the code of conduct/ethics. All that has to happen is the parent or any random person go to the ODE website and fill out a form. After this the ODE is required to investigate it. If this person is willing to stand up in a public BOE meeting then she will likely do this as well. This means that there will be an investigation byu the ODE whether the administration at Norwalk is involved in it or not.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 19:11:17 GMT -5
Post by deathfromabove on Jan 13, 2018 19:11:17 GMT -5
Actually, the administration does not have to report or enforce the code of conduct/ethics. All that has to happen is the parent or any random person go to the ODE website and fill out a form. After this the ODE is required to investigate it. If this person is willing to stand up in a public BOE meeting then she will likely do this as well. This means that there will be an investigation byu the ODE whether the administration at Norwalk is involved in it or not. I do believe that Galion has this right.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 20:20:55 GMT -5
Post by greenman on Jan 13, 2018 20:20:55 GMT -5
This. Subjective language abounds, very open to interpretation, and not codified in ORC. Also, just because you want him terminated doesn't mean that what he did is a terminable offense. This is all assuming, of course, that he's even actually guilty to begin with. Greenman, If you looked back at any of my posts, you will not, I REPEAT NOT, find anything about that I want to FIRE Coach Grey. I really like what he has done for our program and I think he is a very fine person. Stop trying to put words in mine and other peoples mouth or someday you might learn to regret it. Those codes of conduct are fine as they are written and are meant to be use as some sort of guild lines for the teachers and staff. That is all they are and if I remember right they are suppose to be sign by them, but do not quote me on that. King thank you for explaining it a little better and Dude you are right if every thing that is done like that we need a bigger ODE, but I think that if something would happen it will and should go through the steps first, I.E. the principle, the school board and so on and so on, and it could be rejected or advance any further. Just like our court system. Anyway that's the way I see it and Greenman, I do not want Coach Grey terminated. I know that. I mean the CoE is filled w/ subjective lang., and is not law. Agree with you. Galion is also correct in his assessment. I guess my greatest problem with this is how it's being handled. It seems that the accuser, telling the truth or not, is less concerned with justice through due process than she is with getting her way, right or wrong. It's the old "I'm a taxpayer, I pay your salary, and I'm your boss" chestnut; a single taxpayer pays a portion of one person's salary in the school district, if you want to look at it that way. There's "being held to a higher standard as a teacher" and then there's "being denied due process because reasons," and it seems that for all the protections the public seems to think school employees have - and teachers do have some in their educator capacity, certainly - it's open season on coaches, and parents have figured that out. Seriously, parents, if you want to dictate a school's hiring choices, at least pay private school price. Honestly, too, this can get tiring to read time after time. I certainly hope that the truth in this case, whatever it is, is laid bare. The thing is, if Gray did what he's accused of doing, there's procedure and a clear path for the school to take that will make sure he will either never work in schools again, or have a VERY difficult time finding work therein. If the parents/kids are caught lying or exaggerating about Coach Gray, what happens to them? Likely nothing, unless Gray wants to pursue damages for defamation of character/libel/what-have-you. Is he a man that can afford to do so? Will Gray deal with more of the same, or even worse, from the peanut gallery once it comes out he's seeking damages from a student's family, because those same people didn't believe in due process? Even that wouldn't be a slam-dunk necessarily. If it's found that Gray didn't do these things, or if it was found to be greatly exaggerated, will the BoE even care, likely being more worried about optics and PR than justice? He's already lost. Greenman out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Norwalk
Jan 13, 2018 23:46:05 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 23:46:05 GMT -5
None of this surprises me. A mother is dead-set on ruining a man's reputation and livelihood because she failed to raise a child with the moral fiber to follow a few reasonable rules of civilized society. Without meeting any kind of burden of proof that these allegations are true, an army flocks to her side. green, if this were to be truly exposed it may be discovered that this is not a mother's quest. It quite possibly could be driven by a BOE member pushing others to become vocal in an attempt to remove a coach. There is history that would support this BOE member being connected to numerous attempts to give this coach an early exit.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 14, 2018 0:52:36 GMT -5
Post by greenman on Jan 14, 2018 0:52:36 GMT -5
None of this surprises me. A mother is dead-set on ruining a man's reputation and livelihood because she failed to raise a child with the moral fiber to follow a few reasonable rules of civilized society. Without meeting any kind of burden of proof that these allegations are true, an army flocks to her side. green, if this were to be truly exposed it may be discovered that this is not a mother's quest. It quite possibly could be driven by a BOE member pushing others to become vocal in an attempt to remove a coach. There is history that would support this BOE member being connected to numerous attempts to give this coach an early exit. Ya know, now that I think back on it, isn't that usually how it goes, rather? At least the ones I'm familiar with, anyway. Zac Reer @ Monroeville, some years ago, comes to mind everytime this phenomenon re-enters the local news cycle.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 14, 2018 13:00:51 GMT -5
Post by deathfromabove on Jan 14, 2018 13:00:51 GMT -5
Greenman, Now the way you explained all this, I can see where you are going and I apologize. At first I thought that you were disagreeing with what was being said but after rereading your message before this last one, I saw that I was wrong. Sometimes it seems that our brain thinks faster than what we can type. With me since I do what you might call hen pecking typing my brain has already done it's thinking and wants to go to sleep before I can finish with the first word. I am sorry for all this. I agree with you on the one school board member. He has had a vendetta on Coach Gray for a hell of a long time and I for one would like to see this member voted out. I know what coaches go though since I was a coach once awhile back and know what parents can be like. I also am a parent whose sons played ball when they where in school and even though sometimes there was things going on that I didn't know why it was being done but instead of flying off the handle at the coaches I asked what was going on and they explain to me why it is being done and what needs to be done to correct it. I wish more parents would do it that way cause a lot really don't know coaching at all.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 14, 2018 14:05:33 GMT -5
Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 14, 2018 14:05:33 GMT -5
Greenman, If you looked back at any of my posts, you will not, I REPEAT NOT, find anything about that I want to FIRE Coach Grey. I really like what he has done for our program and I think he is a very fine person. Stop trying to put words in mine and other peoples mouth or someday you might learn to regret it. Those codes of conduct are fine as they are written and are meant to be use as some sort of guild lines for the teachers and staff. That is all they are and if I remember right they are suppose to be sign by them, but do not quote me on that. King thank you for explaining it a little better and Dude you are right if every thing that is done like that we need a bigger ODE, but I think that if something would happen it will and should go through the steps first, I.E. the principle, the school board and so on and so on, and it could be rejected or advance any further. Just like our court system. Anyway that's the way I see it and Greenman, I do not want Coach Grey terminated. Honestly, too, this can get tiring to read time after time. I certainly hope that the truth in this case, whatever it is, is laid bare. The thing is, if Gray did what he's accused of doing, there's procedure and a clear path for the school to take that will make sure he will either never work in schools again, or have a VERY difficult time finding work therein.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Hasn't coach Gray retired and is now receiving his pension? He's still coaching because he loves it. He doesn't need the hassle. Maybe the people going after him know this and thus figure it will be easier to run him off.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 14, 2018 14:11:50 GMT -5
Post by deathfromabove on Jan 14, 2018 14:11:50 GMT -5
Honestly, too, this can get tiring to read time after time. I certainly hope that the truth in this case, whatever it is, is laid bare. The thing is, if Gray did what he's accused of doing, there's procedure and a clear path for the school to take that will make sure he will either never work in schools again, or have a VERY difficult time finding work therein.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Hasn't coach Gray retired and is now receiving his pension? He's still coaching because he loves it. He doesn't need the hassle. Maybe the people going after him know this and thus figure it will be easier to run him off. Willard I maybe wrong on this, seems lately I been wrong on a lot of things but I do believe that Coach Gray only retired from teaching not from coaching.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 14, 2018 14:24:08 GMT -5
Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 14, 2018 14:24:08 GMT -5
That is what I meant. Retired from teaching, but still coaching. I'm sure he's not coaching for the pittance of a salary they get for the time spent. Nor do I see a State caliber team on the horizon for him. He's still coaching because he loves it and likes working with teenage athletes. With this kind of BS, the bad actors are making him love it a lot less.
|
|
|
Post by deathfromabove on Jan 14, 2018 15:05:14 GMT -5
That is what I meant. Retired from teaching, but still coaching. I'm sure he's not coaching for the pittance of a salary they get for the time spent. Nor do I see a State caliber team on the horizon for him. He's still coaching because he loves it and likes working with teenage athletes. With this kind of BS, the bad actors are making him love it a lot less. Willard, Grey sure does love coaching kids and teaching them the lessons of life but certain parents seem to ruin things because they think they know what is good for little johnny. Some of them should never have had kids at all. With all this bull**** I would not blame Coach for saying to the board screw this job, but that his not in his character and he would not give a certain board member the satisfaction of it. I'm with Coach on this and will back him 100%.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 15, 2018 23:00:51 GMT -5
Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 15, 2018 23:00:51 GMT -5
After the past 2 weeks of Michigan State basketball, I bet there will be a lot of off color language and jersey grabbing by Tom Izzo in practices this week.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 6:37:12 GMT -5
I know Steve Gray from a coaching standpoint and he is a great coach who gets the most out of his players. However, I will say that at times he is borderline with some of his comments. Unfortunately, it's a different time with high school athletics. Kids are not as mentally tough and the parents don't help the situation at all. Every parent thinks there son is a NBA player and the AUU circuit just builds up false hope. I will say that over the past week I have ran into a few players that played for Norwalk within the last 2 years and they are not surprised at all at the allegations. These former players were mentally tough enough to handle it but could see how it would become a problem with certain types of kids. Either way, Norwalk is really damaging there athletics with this, why would any coach with any credentials and desire come to coach at Norwalk and deal with this crap, especially at the board of education level. They just non-renewed (creative way for getting fired) a football coach with a winning record, which is hard to do in Norwalk. In my opinion, there should already have been a letter with support from administration at this point for Gray. I have not seen one but maybe I missed it. Regardless of the outcome, Gray has the best intentions of his players, you will always have a select few of parents and players that don't see eye to eye with the coach. I am so sick and tired of this bullying epidemic in schools. Everyone wants to cry bully for constructive criticism or when something mean is said. MAN UP I realize that some cases are true cases but as a whole, this whole idea of bullying has been blown out of proportion. If Norwalk lets him go, I don't think he will stop coaching, he will latch onto another program because he loves the game.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 16, 2018 11:46:12 GMT -5
Post by Observer on Jan 16, 2018 11:46:12 GMT -5
Well said streaknation. Norwalk has a long history in that regards.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Norwalk
Jan 16, 2018 16:24:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 16:24:08 GMT -5
Dump might be thinking Huron could use a new coach.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 16, 2018 17:59:25 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by redskinfan04 on Jan 16, 2018 17:59:25 GMT -5
Between running Mac out and now this rediculous bull with Gray. Who in their right minds would want to coach at Norwalk? I'd run far far away from this dumpster fire.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 17, 2018 1:37:37 GMT -5
Post by greenman on Jan 17, 2018 1:37:37 GMT -5
Honestly, too, this can get tiring to read time after time. I certainly hope that the truth in this case, whatever it is, is laid bare. The thing is, if Gray did what he's accused of doing, there's procedure and a clear path for the school to take that will make sure he will either never work in schools again, or have a VERY difficult time finding work therein.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Hasn't coach Gray retired and is now receiving his pension? He's still coaching because he loves it. He doesn't need the hassle. Maybe the people going after him know this and thus figure it will be easier to run him off. I didn't even know he ever was a teacher. When I said "work in the schools," I was speaking about his opportunities solely as a coach.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 17, 2018 10:19:14 GMT -5
Post by sport24278 on Jan 17, 2018 10:19:14 GMT -5
Between running Mac out and now this rediculous bull with Gray. Who in their right minds would want to coach at Norwalk? I'd run far far away from this dumpster fire. I'll let those in charge know that you're not a candidate for either job. One kid and his mommy raising a stink in basketball. And one football coach who under-achieved in his 9 years here (again, name the 1 game that Norwalk won during his tenure that they should not have won?).
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 17, 2018 11:34:21 GMT -5
Post by sportsfan on Jan 17, 2018 11:34:21 GMT -5
Between running Mac out and now this rediculous bull with Gray. Who in their right minds would want to coach at Norwalk? I'd run far far away from this dumpster fire. I'll let those in charge know that you're not a candidate for either job. One kid and his mommy raising a stink in basketball. And one football coach who under-achieved in his 9 years here (again, name the 1 game that Norwalk won during his tenure that they should not have won?). Good coaches don't grow on trees. For someone to have a winning record at Norwalk and get fired is surprising. However Norwalk has the opportunity to hire a guy that has went to the playoffs multiple years at Tiffin Calvert. However, current track record says they'll hire the guy from Mapleton who hasn't achieved near what Fox has...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Norwalk
Jan 17, 2018 21:43:05 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 21:43:05 GMT -5
Between running Mac out and now this rediculous bull with Gray. Who in their right minds would want to coach at Norwalk? I'd run far far away from this dumpster fire. I'll let those in charge know that you're not a candidate for either job. One kid and his mommy raising a stink in basketball. And one football coach who under-achieved in his 9 years here (again, name the 1 game that Norwalk won during his tenure that they should not have won?). Name a game they lost that they should of won. That’s underachieving. Losing to teams you should lose is not
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 18, 2018 5:43:21 GMT -5
Post by greenman on Jan 18, 2018 5:43:21 GMT -5
The whole "show me a game they won that they shouldn't have" is less an argument and more a logical fallacy. Do you mean "how many times did they score an upset?" Lots of teams go decades w/out doing that while still winning consistently. What's the basis of deciding who they should beat? Enrollment difference? Weekly predictions of the staff of a garbage newspaper?
|
|
|
Post by mcm1019 on Jan 18, 2018 8:14:06 GMT -5
I'd just assume let the subject go away and focus on getting a new coach hired, but I'll just toss out a few losses vs Willard as exhibit 1.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Norwalk
Jan 18, 2018 8:18:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 8:18:20 GMT -5
Gray is the only Norwalk coach in the last 40 years to have a winning coaching record for the Truckers.
|
|
dump
All Conference
Onion Poster
Posts: 428
|
Norwalk
Jan 18, 2018 8:36:58 GMT -5
Post by dump on Jan 18, 2018 8:36:58 GMT -5
Dump might be thinking Huron could use a new coach. Excuse me? I never question Bobby I know my feud with Willard is well documented, but you are by far my least favorite person on this site. I would love to kick your bum bum GO Tigers
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 18, 2018 15:31:28 GMT -5
Post by vottruckers on Jan 18, 2018 15:31:28 GMT -5
Gray is the only Norwalk coach in the last 40 years to have a winning coaching record for the Truckers. ONLY? I think Coach Higgins would question that from his own tennis team's standpoint along with Volleyball and Girls Basketball to name a few.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Norwalk
Jan 18, 2018 15:55:47 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 15:55:47 GMT -5
Sorry vot, it’s a basketball forum.
|
|
|
Post by vottruckers on Jan 18, 2018 16:02:41 GMT -5
Sorry vot, it’s a basketball forum. Ok so go basketball then - Manlet didn't have a winning record the last few years? Or can we not bring that up as this isn't the girls forum?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Norwalk
Jan 18, 2018 16:24:09 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 16:24:09 GMT -5
Sorry again vot, I didn't post anything on the girls basketball forum.
|
|
|
Norwalk
Jan 18, 2018 21:37:26 GMT -5
Post by greenman on Jan 18, 2018 21:37:26 GMT -5
I'd just assume let the subject go away and focus on getting a new coach hired, but I'll just toss out a few losses vs Willard as exhibit 1. I think this was meant as a reply to me, so I'll bite: That's not really answering any of the questions I asked, but simply doubling down and asking me to assume it's an answer. There's no guidepost telling me how you decided what games Norwalk should have one, just opinion. I'm not disagreeing with the fact that a loss here and there to a Willard team in this day and age is bad - I'm just saying the statement "they only won the games they should have and didn't win the ones they shouldn't have" is just a hollow opinion until you can provide at least some kind of rubric that guided you to your conclusion. Are other teams not allowed to upset Norwalk? If Norwalk wins more times than loses in games where they "shouldn't win," do these games start being games they "should win?" How often? It seems completely subjective, and people act as if it's NOT RIDICULOUS to decide any man's job (whether it's his CAREER or not) under the guidance of the old farts who sit in the local doughnut shop for three hours just to ***** and moan about nothing between bites of jelly-filleds.
|
|