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Post by sportsjock on Feb 15, 2018 16:21:15 GMT -5
Here we are again, faced with another tragedy of innocent young people, gunned down in a place that should provide them with safety and security. Your thoughts on what should be instituted to reduce or prevent an event of this magnitude.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 17:08:21 GMT -5
I don’t think the public needs AR-15’s.
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Post by deathfromabove on Feb 15, 2018 19:41:49 GMT -5
I don’t think the public needs AR-15’s. Bighoss, To me I agree with some of what you said but even though I do not own an AR-15 I do own a M-1 Carbine that was my fathers during WW2 and he brought it back home with him. A friend of the family was going off to the Korean War and he change it to a M-2 Carbine witch made it a automatic weapon but when he got back he gave it back to my dad and he just stored it away until I went in the Army and he gave it to me but I stored it away because I loved the M-14. When I got out of the Army I brought my Carbine home with me and took the piece out that made it a automatic because I did not need a full auto. Now my rifle is register with our sheriff's dept. and I think that all assault weapons should be register and anybody who buys a weapon should be check by the FBI to own any weapon. I have been checked by the FBI because since I volunteer at our Hospital I have to have my fingerprinted for a background check but since I have no fingerprints left anymore so the FBI did one hell of a check on me and I passed since I'm still working. So what I'm getting at in around about way is yes the public doesn't need it unless they get a FBI background check.
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Post by sportsjock on Feb 15, 2018 21:02:25 GMT -5
I don’t think the public needs AR-15’s. Bighoss, To me I agree with some of what you said but even though I do not own an AR-15 I do own a M-1 Carbine that was my fathers during WW2 and he brought it back home with him. A friend of the family was going off to the Korean War and he change it to a M-2 Carbine witch made it a automatic weapon but when he got back he gave it back to my dad and he just stored it away until I went in the Army and he gave it to me but I stored it away because I loved the M-14. When I got out of the Army I brought my Carbine home with me and took the piece out that made it a automatic because I did not need a full auto. Now my rifle is register with our sheriff's dept. and I think that all assault weapons should be register and anybody who buys a weapon should be check by the FBI to own any weapon. I have been checked by the FBI because since I volunteer at our Hospital I have to have my fingerprinted for a background check but since I have no fingerprints left anymore so the FBI did one hell of a check on me and I passed since I'm still working. So what I'm getting at in around about way is yes the public doesn't need it unless they get a FBI background check. I agree potential assault rifle purchasers should come under the highest degree of scrutiny. Watching virtual hours of media coverage, gun control was the dominating theme. Not one person addressed the fact that once again, like all the other in-school shootings, the shooter went methodically, about his business virtually undeterred. Why was he undeterred? The shooter possessed deadly force from the outset and school officials, teachers and staff had no access to the means to offer counter measures. All they could do, is heard students into classrooms and lock doors, while the killing continued. In all the previous massacres, the bulk of the killing took place in the first 1-10 minutes. Such was the case in Florida. Schools need an immediate and deadly counter response to a shooter. Every minute wasted is precious lives lost. There should be unidentified teachers or administrators throughout every school with concealed carry firearms that can be invoked at a moments notice, to neutralize the threat. By the time law enforcement arrives on the scene, the body count has long been decided and in this latest episode, the shooter calmly blended in with the student evacuees and walked away from the horrendous scene he created. Some might say, hire a security guards or guards. Guess who the shooters first target will be? Concealed carry guardian angels are among us in every venue as we go about our daily business. Law enforcement is rarely there when the crime occurs, they show up to secure the crime scene, make reports and hopefully make an arrest. Meanwhile, victims lay on the floor in cold silence. This is in no way a criticism of law enforcement, but as well trained and proficient as they may be, they cannot overcome logistics and response times. The anti-gun crowd are in utter horror at such a suggestion. Guns? You mean guns in schools. No, guns in the hands of responsible people of authority. When there is a school shooting, the only guns are that of the perpetrator....easy work. Unexpected, deadly force demands an immediate and equal deadly force. The kids deserve nothing less.
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Post by fanofthegame on Feb 15, 2018 23:19:23 GMT -5
The fact is our safety and security is an illusion. We go about our daily lives vulnerable to any crazy person or zealot with a gun. The cops cannot be everywhere all the time nor would we want them to be. That’s a police state where we would be sacrificing freedom for security. I’ve said for years the next 9/11 like scenario could be a radical with several semiautomatics showing up to a football or basketball game on a Friday night and wreaking havoc. Worse yet a coordinated effort by 6, 10, 100 on the same night. The death toll would be huge, but the damage to our psyche would be worse. Games or seasons would be cancelled and part of the fabric of our culture would be changed forever. It would be way cheaper and easier to coordinate than flying plains into buildings. How many of you remember what two gunman in a car with a hole in the trunk did in the DC area a few years back? They shot a handful of people over several weeks and nobody in the city wanted to go to work or send their kids to school. My point is this. The only way to stop a bad person with a gun is for a good person with a gun to step up. We need an armed citizenry at the site of these shootings to limit the damage. The caveat is they need to be well trained and the 8 hours it takes to get a concealed carry in Ohio is a joke. You should have to take law enforcement type classes on how to recognize suspicious behavior along with when it is safe to shoot and when it is not. You should also have many more hours of range time initially and to recertify periodically.
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Post by deathfromabove on Feb 15, 2018 23:29:09 GMT -5
Bighoss, To me I agree with some of what you said but even though I do not own an AR-15 I do own a M-1 Carbine that was my fathers during WW2 and he brought it back home with him. A friend of the family was going off to the Korean War and he change it to a M-2 Carbine witch made it a automatic weapon but when he got back he gave it back to my dad and he just stored it away until I went in the Army and he gave it to me but I stored it away because I loved the M-14. When I got out of the Army I brought my Carbine home with me and took the piece out that made it a automatic because I did not need a full auto. Now my rifle is register with our sheriff's dept. and I think that all assault weapons should be register and anybody who buys a weapon should be check by the FBI to own any weapon. I have been checked by the FBI because since I volunteer at our Hospital I have to have my fingerprinted for a background check but since I have no fingerprints left anymore so the FBI did one hell of a check on me and I passed since I'm still working. So what I'm getting at in around about way is yes the public doesn't need it unless they get a FBI background check. I agree potential assault rifle purchasers should come under the highest degree of scrutiny. Watching virtual hours of media coverage, gun control was the dominating theme. Not one person addressed the fact that once again, like all the other in-school shootings, the shooter went methodically, about his business virtually undeterred. Why was he undeterred? The shooter possessed deadly force from the outset and school officials, teachers and staff had no access to the means to offer counter measures. All they could do, is heard students into classrooms and lock doors, while the killing continued. In all the previous massacres, the bulk of the killing took place in the first 1-10 minutes. Such was the case in Florida. Schools need an immediate and deadly counter response to a shooter. Every minute wasted is precious lives lost. There should be unidentified teachers or administrators throughout every school with concealed carry firearms that can be invoked at a moments notice, to neutralize the threat. By the time law enforcement arrives on the scene, the body count has long been decided and in this latest episode, the shooter calmly blended in with the student evacuees and walked away from the horrendous scene he created. Some might say, hire a security guards or guards. Guess who the shooters first target will be? Concealed carry guardian angels are among us in every venue as we go about our daily business. Law enforcement is rarely there when the crime occurs, they show up to secure the crime scene, make reports and hopefully make an arrest. Meanwhile, victims lay on the floor in cold silence. This is in no way a criticism of law enforcement, but as well trained and proficient as they may be, they cannot overcome logistics and response times. The anti-gun crowd are in utter horror at such a suggestion. Guns? You mean guns in schools. No, guns in the hands of responsible people of authority. When there is a school shooting, the only guns are that of the perpetrator....easy work. Unexpected, deadly force demands an immediate and equal deadly force. The kids deserve nothing less. Sportsjock, I agree that the government needs to do something and do it NOW. This is not suppose to be a war zone but it is getting to be. The thing that I see about having a hired security guard is who is going to pay for it. The government is always taking funds away from the school and the tax payers are getting tired of being tax to death. Hospitals are also going to be hiring guards for protection. We just had a hospital in Port Clinton pharmacy rob in broad daylight. He was also armed to. Yes we have got to do something about fire arms getting into the hands of somebody that should not have them and our government needs to do it NOW.
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Post by deathfromabove on Feb 15, 2018 23:50:37 GMT -5
The fact is our safety and security is an illusion. We go about our daily lives vulnerable to any crazy person or zealot with a gun. The cops cannot be everywhere all the time nor would we want them to be. That’s a police state where we would be sacrificing freedom for security. I’ve said for years the next 9/11 like scenario could be a radical with several semiautomatics showing up to a football or basketball game on a Friday night and wreaking havoc. Worse yet a coordinated effort by 6, 10, 100 on the same night. The death toll would be huge, but the damage to our psyche would be worse. Games or seasons would be cancelled and part of the fabric of our culture would be changed forever. It would be way cheaper and easier to coordinate than flying plains into buildings. How many of you remember what two gunman in a car with a hole in the trunk did in the DC area a few years back? They shot a handful of people over several weeks and nobody in the city wanted to go to work or send their kids to school. My point is this. The only way to stop a bad person with a gun is for a good person with a gun to step up. We need an armed citizenry at the site of these shootings to limit the damage. The caveat is they need to be well trained and the 8 hours it takes to get a concealed carry in Ohio is a joke. You should have to take law enforcement type classes on how to recognize suspicious behavior along with when it is safe to shoot and when it is not. You should also have many more hours of range time initially and to recertify periodically. Fan, I was just telling my son that when the comic strip Funky Winkerbean and a character name Les and he always had hall duty so he sits at a desk checking on hall passes but on his desk is a browning water cool 30 cal. machine gun. That was I believe in the late 60's to early 70's when Tom Batick, I believe that's how he spelled it, started the strip.
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Post by sportsjock on Feb 16, 2018 6:11:23 GMT -5
I agree potential assault rifle purchasers should come under the highest degree of scrutiny. Watching virtual hours of media coverage, gun control was the dominating theme. Not one person addressed the fact that once again, like all the other in-school shootings, the shooter went methodically, about his business virtually undeterred. Why was he undeterred? The shooter possessed deadly force from the outset and school officials, teachers and staff had no access to the means to offer counter measures. All they could do, is heard students into classrooms and lock doors, while the killing continued. In all the previous massacres, the bulk of the killing took place in the first 1-10 minutes. Such was the case in Florida. Schools need an immediate and deadly counter response to a shooter. Every minute wasted is precious lives lost. There should be unidentified teachers or administrators throughout every school with concealed carry firearms that can be invoked at a moments notice, to neutralize the threat. By the time law enforcement arrives on the scene, the body count has long been decided and in this latest episode, the shooter calmly blended in with the student evacuees and walked away from the horrendous scene he created. Some might say, hire a security guards or guards. Guess who the shooters first target will be? Concealed carry guardian angels are among us in every venue as we go about our daily business. Law enforcement is rarely there when the crime occurs, they show up to secure the crime scene, make reports and hopefully make an arrest. Meanwhile, victims lay on the floor in cold silence. This is in no way a criticism of law enforcement, but as well trained and proficient as they may be, they cannot overcome logistics and response times. The anti-gun crowd are in utter horror at such a suggestion. Guns? You mean guns in schools. No, guns in the hands of responsible people of authority. When there is a school shooting, the only guns are that of the perpetrator....easy work. Unexpected, deadly force demands an immediate and equal deadly force. The kids deserve nothing less. Sportsjock, I agree that the government needs to do something and do it NOW. This is not suppose to be a war zone but it is getting to be. The thing that I see about having a hired security guard is who is going to pay for it. The government is always taking funds away from the school and the tax payers are getting tired of being tax to death. Hospitals are also going to be hiring guards for protection. We just had a hospital in Port Clinton pharmacy rob in broad daylight. He was also armed to. Yes we have got to do something about fire arms getting into the hands of somebody that should not have them and our government needs to do it NOW. Members of the teaching staff, administrators etc. are already on the payroll, costs to the school district is minimal, while greatly increasing in-school security. The only expense is training and licensing and perhaps cost of the weapons and holsters. Some would say that teachers can't be trusted brandishing a concealed weapon, and shudder of undisclosed weapons among faculty members....really? But we feel more comfortable with a private security guard with no personal connection to the school. Keep in mind, this needs to be implemented at all levels, grade schools, middle schools and high schools, that as you pointed out, dramatically Increasing the payroll and budgets of local school districts. The point is, use the pool of in-school educators and resources already in place and on the payroll. At Parkland H.S., the school athletic director, an assistant football coach and a geography teacher gave their lives trying to aid and protect their students. Aaron Feis, the football assistant and teacher sacrificed his life, serving as a virtual human shield, while trying to protect his kids. Instead of retreating to locked rooms to buy time, a teaching staff member, proficiently trained for these kinds of situations, would go on the offensive and go directly to the source of the shooting. Parkland is a H.S. with an enrollment of 4,000 students, with a large faculty. Under this plan, there would be qualified and expertly trained, concealed carry faculty members in virtually every location of that facility. Immediacy is the critical key to saving lives. Instead, what we so tragically witnessed, 17 lives gunned down, before the arrival of law enforcement. After the fact responses are just not good enough.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Feb 16, 2018 8:38:16 GMT -5
I don’t think the public needs AR-15’s. A lot of people have them, about half the people I know have told me they have an AR-15. Does mid-Ohio have a lot of killing with AR-15's? Handguns kill way more Americans than AR-15's. The medical profession kills way more Americans than all guns put together. Who's going to go door to door and confiscate the AR-15's out of peoples homes? Sounds dangerous, I think police should NOT have to do it and the people that want AR-15's banned need to be the ones busting in doors to steal the AR-15's from the owner. We have a mental health issue not a gun issue. Mentally stable people do not go on shooting rampages. Guns do not go on shooting rampages. Mentally ill people are the ones that do these rampages. My idea: Create a law that allows schools to recommend sending a kid in for a mental health evaluation. If the parents block their kid from being evaluated then the parents are held liable for any murder their kid makes. 1) School recommends Nikolas Cruz gets a mental health evaluation. Parents say, nope, no evaluation Mentally ill Nikolas Cruz goes on a rampage and kills 17 Bye Bye parents, you are getting charged with the 17 murders just like your son. 2) School recommends Nikolas Cruz gets a mental health evaluation. Parents say, okay Nikolas Cruz gets evaluated and confirmed that he's mentally ill Parents get to stay free Cut funding to Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Columbia, Algeria, Congo, Saudi Arabia, etc and use that money to fund Mental Health Services.
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Post by sportsjock on Feb 16, 2018 8:57:10 GMT -5
Nikolas Cruz parents are both dead. He lived with his grandmother. His mother passed away a few years ago. Unfortunately, we shut down most of our nuthouses half a century ago. The typical liberal resolution to most every problem, throw money at a program, thinking it will be a cure all, which it never becomes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 8:57:18 GMT -5
My point about about assault rifles is what exactly do you do with them? You can’t hunt (shotgun) with them and they aren’t covered in ccw (pistol). They are designed for combat.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 10:10:17 GMT -5
I don’t think the public needs AR-15’s. A lot of people have them, about half the people I know have told me they have an AR-15. Does mid-Ohio have a lot of killing with AR-15's? Handguns kill way more Americans than AR-15's. The medical profession kills way more Americans than all guns put together. Who's going to go door to door and confiscate the AR-15's out of peoples homes? Sounds dangerous, I think police should NOT have to do it and the people that want AR-15's banned need to be the ones busting in doors to steal the AR-15's from the owner. We have a mental health issue not a gun issue. Mentally stable people do not go on shooting rampages. Guns do not go on shooting rampages. Mentally ill people are the ones that do these rampages. My idea: Create a law that allows schools to recommend sending a kid in for a mental health evaluation. If the parents block their kid from being evaluated then the parents are held liable for any murder their kid makes. 1) School recommends Nikolas Cruz gets a mental health evaluation. Parents say, nope, no evaluation Mentally ill Nikolas Cruz goes on a rampage and kills 17 Bye Bye parents, you are getting charged with the 17 murders just like your son. 2) School recommends Nikolas Cruz gets a mental health evaluation. Parents say, okay Nikolas Cruz gets evaluated and confirmed that he's mentally ill Parents get to stay free Cut funding to Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Columbia, Algeria, Congo, Saudi Arabia, etc and use that money to fund Mental Health Services. I think your idea to force the issue of mental health screenings is good. If teachers have to be in harms way, they should have the right to flag certain kids and get some kind of action based on it. As far as your arguments for AR-15, you can use my lovely state, California, as a case study. High capacity magazines and AR-15 without bullet buttons are illegal. There was no door to door collection of guns, they grand fathered in people who had them before the ban. Criminals (felons) still get arrested with AR-15s and even some with fully automatic. BUT a 19 year old kid cannot walk into a gun shop and purchase one. As the saying goes, I would gladly give up all my guns if you got all the bad guys to give up theirs first. That's not going to happen, we can't uncork that bottle, but we can largely prevent high school age kids from purchasing guns that have the sole purpose of killing a lot of people.
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Post by deathfromabove on Feb 16, 2018 11:58:41 GMT -5
My point about about assault rifles is what exactly do you do with them? You can’t hunt (shotgun) with them and they aren’t covered in ccw (pistol). They are designed for combat. Bighoss, You are right that they are classified as assault rifles but as for combat they were not meant for. When they first came out for the public they where classified as CAR-15's, the C was for civilian use, never for combat. I use to own a M-1 Garand Rifle and because I am one arm it is a lot easier to go hunting deer than it would be with a Shot Gun but since we couldn't hunt with a rifle in Ohio (at least not deer) I went to Pennsy or West Virginia to go hunting there. And no a bolt action rifle still wouldn't work for me when I'm stalking a deer. What I am trying to say is a AR-15 in the right hands is not a bad thing. Sometimes it is a good thing like I remember and it was not long ago that there was a bank robbery in progress out in California and robbers had automatic weapons and full armor gear on. Well the police was fully out match and they had to give ground but they were given weapons, AR-15's, Tommie's, and any other assault weapons from the LAW abiding citizens of that town. We do need LAWS to keep these kind of weapons out of the hands of the wrong kind of people. We had a law that kept it out of the hands of the mentally insane (I know there is a better word than insane but I just can't think of it right now) peoples hand but congress and their divine thinking let the law lapse a year ago yesterday. Now is the time to let the GOVERMENT know that WE THE PEOPLE have had enough of this and if they still want their jobs DO something about keeping these and all kinds of weapons out of the hands of these kind of people and criminals now. Don't let the law abiding citizens punish along side the idiots who are bent on destruction of our country but make the laws stronger and have FBI background checks on all assault weapons be mandatory and punish the ones who give these kind of weapons to these people be punish along with them. That's my feeling on this and Bighoss I am sorry that I used your threat as a tree stump but I am getting more ****** off at what is happening to our great country and I am pretty sure you are to or other wise you wouldn't have said what your heart is telling you. GOD BLESS YOU MY FELLOW COUNTRYMEN.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 13:29:24 GMT -5
I didn’t make a threat. I asked a question. Your answer I figure is to go hunting in different states. And before people correct me and say the AR-15 isnt an assault rifle I know that it can be customized into one rather easily.
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Post by deathfromabove on Feb 16, 2018 14:27:47 GMT -5
I didn’t make a threat. I asked a question. Your answer I figure is to go hunting in different states. And before people correct me and say the AR-15 isnt an assault rifle I know that it can be customized into one rather easily. I know that Bighoss, but when they first came out that wasn't what was meant to happen but someone figure out how to get around it. Also like I said and I am agreeing with you that the AR-15 is classified as a assault rifle and I will join you in telling anybody that thinks different on that. Threat was the wrong word to use but it should be called quizzed minds that wanted to know. I am sorry for using that word to you but when we answer back to peoples questions down below it says The threat in which you are posting has no effects applied to it. That is where I got the word from. OK . Again I am sorry if I said something wrong to you.
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Post by sportsjock on Feb 16, 2018 20:03:56 GMT -5
Defenseless, helpless and hopeless.....until law enforcement arrive. That descriptional element has not changed one iota, but needs to change....immediately. Schools need to force themselves out of the 'soft target' category. Wanna be shooters need to know, they will be faced with immediate and certain death, if such an attempt is made.
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Post by moneyball on Feb 17, 2018 9:28:31 GMT -5
I see a lot of opportunity to improve when it comes to this situation. I'm a true believer in gun rights and I carry a gun myself, ccw. I think communication between the school and parent/guardian is a must. If a child is going through situations and needs help, the teachers and staff need to be thoroughly trained to identify those situations and be professional about it. The staff cannot blow this off and not give it the attention it deserves. The parent/guardian needs to be counselled on options for the child and what can be done to get that child back on track. It is absolutely critical that the parent/guardian have just as much ownership in the child's development as the school. The school guidance counselors need to be on top of troubled actions by students, especially if there are trends. Every time there is a situation like this you hear "there was so many signs", yet it still happens. Kids are bullied by other kids and kids are bullied by teachers. Teachers can be bullied by other members of the staff and even by students. The situation is a serious one and the rules and guidelines need defined and everyone needs to be held accountable. If a child is disruptive and cannot be counselled back to a productive young adult that is when outside help is needed. Many schools have psychologist on staff to address these major issues and they work hard to help kids turn their live's around. Many of these kids are in horrible situations and as a school and community it is our responsibility to try and help each student feel safe and welcome at school every day. One word can bring a kid back from not wanting to go on to wanting to change their life for the better.
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Post by sportsjock on Feb 17, 2018 13:59:19 GMT -5
Most thoughts for improvements is given to the preventative stage. Whether it be counseling, early detection, warning signs etc., which is all well and good.
Once the shooter has entered the school, it becomes...."well kids, guess your on your own....good luck" When the police finally arrive, they'll figure it all out.
Particular teachers need the means to eliminate the threat! Once a perpetrator has crossed that last vestige of deterrence, the school entrance, there is no 'last line of defense'. It has been stated over and over again, Parkland H.S. is the model for attackers emergency response drills, this school did everything right, but they forgot just one thing....a weapon(s) for immediate retaliation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 17:42:46 GMT -5
The fact is our safety and security is an illusion. We go about our daily lives vulnerable to any crazy person or zealot with a gun. The cops cannot be everywhere all the time nor would we want them to be. That’s a police state where we would be sacrificing freedom for security. I’ve said for years the next 9/11 like scenario could be a radical with several semiautomatics showing up to a football or basketball game on a Friday night and wreaking havoc. Worse yet a coordinated effort by 6, 10, 100 on the same night. The death toll would be huge, but the damage to our psyche would be worse. Games or seasons would be cancelled and part of the fabric of our culture would be changed forever. It would be way cheaper and easier to coordinate than flying plains into buildings. How many of you remember what two gunman in a car with a hole in the trunk did in the DC area a few years back? They shot a handful of people over several weeks and nobody in the city wanted to go to work or send their kids to school. My point is this. The only way to stop a bad person with a gun is for a good person with a gun to step up. We need an armed citizenry at the site of these shootings to limit the damage. The caveat is they need to be well trained and the 8 hours it takes to get a concealed carry in Ohio is a joke. You should have to take law enforcement type classes on how to recognize suspicious behavior along with when it is safe to shoot and when it is not. You should also have many more hours of range time initially and to recertify periodically. I agree fan. Solid post
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Post by galion on Feb 20, 2018 9:33:17 GMT -5
Some of you need to realize that we live in reality not an action movie. In real life the hero can't pull a random civilian off the street and have them be part of a high speed car chase or hand them a gun and be part of the big gun fight. Most of the people who are wired to run into burning buildings or toward gun shots and flying bullets are already in the military or are first responders. Shooting a gun at a gun range is a far cry from assessing and identifying a threat during panic and chaos. What happens when an armed civilian makes an error in judgement or accidentally hits a kid in the crossfire? Arming teachers and admins is a bad idea.
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Post by sportsjock on Feb 20, 2018 16:15:31 GMT -5
Some of you need to realize that we live in reality not an action movie. In real life the hero can't pull a random civilian off the street and have them be part of a high speed car chase or hand them a gun and be part of the big gun fight. Most of the people who are wired to run into burning buildings or toward gun shots and flying bullets are already in the military or are first responders. Shooting a gun at a gun range is a far cry from assessing and identifying a threat during panic and chaos. What happens when an armed civilian makes an error in judgement or accidentally hits a kid in the crossfire? Arming teachers and admins is a bad idea. Your absolutely right, why bother training teachers to defend themselves and their students, because they are too damn stupid to know how to handle a firearm and wouldn't have a clue on neutralizing an active shooter. Let's 'play it safe' and continue the methodic slaughter of kids cowering helplessly under a desk or in a corner. Let's 'play it safe' and hope the body count stays at an acceptable level before 'trained' 1st responders arrive on the scene.....that sure makes sense to me! No one said a thing about arming all the teachers and administrators. Select teachers and administrators would possess concealed firearms and be fully trained and prepared to respond instantaneously and neutralize the threat. Oh, and by the way, there was a security guard on the school site, when the massacre began. It is insincere to worry about future gun purchases when the next potential killers are most probably already armed. Whether legal or illegal, there are more than 300 million guns in our country. Short of a gestapo style blitz, there is no way to go back in time and re-assess our national gun policies. Our U.S. Constitution, namely the 2nd ammendment guarantees us certain rights that can never be infringed upon. Existing gun laws have failed us, mental health advocates have been in-effective, and now, based on what we know about Parkland and previous school shootings, even the FBI has failed us. It is quite evident our energies need to be redirected, not toward further meaningless 'gun control,' but rather on hardening our defenses. Public school and other public schools and other public buildings need to outfitted with steel doors and non-penetrating glass. All schools should have active shooter drills as often as they have fire drills. In coordination with police and fire departments, door barricade devises must be chosen with great care. Beyond that, guns will be a necessary component on school campuses. Guns in the possesion of paid armed guards, but also guns concealed and carried by select members of the faculty and administration. Our schools can no longer become 'free fire zones' for killers who know they will not meet any armed resistance. Rather, potential killers must believe and understand, they will face withering fire from unidentifiable (to them) individuals. It is no longer enough to wring our hands after one of these mass killings, and mouth mindless desires for 'gun control'. The time is now for officials at all levels of government to take positive action to make our schools and colleges safe and secure.
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Post by fanofthegame on Feb 20, 2018 19:11:20 GMT -5
Some of you need to realize that we live in reality not an action movie. In real life the hero can't pull a random civilian off the street and have them be part of a high speed car chase or hand them a gun and be part of the big gun fight. Most of the people who are wired to run into burning buildings or toward gun shots and flying bullets are already in the military or are first responders. Shooting a gun at a gun range is a far cry from assessing and identifying a threat during panic and chaos. What happens when an armed civilian makes an error in judgement or accidentally hits a kid in the crossfire? Arming teachers and admins is a bad idea. I would add to sportsjock’s post that there were at least a few teachers with the right mentality to run toward danger. They were the ones who died shielding their students. It only takes 1-2 on site to be better than a police officer 15-30 minutes away. Most of us advocating concealed carry in this situation are recommending many more than the eight hours currently required in Ohio.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 20:26:56 GMT -5
It is insincere to worry about future gun purchases when the next potential killers are most probably already armed. Whether legal or illegal, there are more than 300 million guns in our country. Short of a gestapo style blitz, there is no way to go back in time and re-assess our national gun policies. Our U.S. Constitution, namely the 2nd ammendment guarantees us certain rights that can never be infringed upon. Existing gun laws have failed us, mental health advocates have been in-effective, and now, based on what we know about Parkland and previous school shootings, even the FBI has failed us. This is one of the worst arguments I hear. It makes no sense. "A lot of people already have guns exclusively made to kill people, so let's not prevent more people from getting guns exclusively made to kill people". The Las Vegas shooter bought a lot of his guns in the last 12 months. The Florida shooter bought his gun presumably in the last year or so. If we had outlawed these guns after Sandy Hook, it is likely the death tolls at Las Vegas and Florida would have been greatly less. Laws are slow to get passed, and slow to take effect, but they are about changing the FUTURE from lessons learned in the past. There are many things we could be doing to slow these mass shootings, changing gun laws is one small part, but it's a no-brainer. There is NO purpose for centerfire semi-automatic rifles other than to fire a rapid amount of shots at large mammals. For hunting, that's violating fair chase. For non-hunting, that's a large death toll.
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Post by sportsjock on Feb 20, 2018 22:47:29 GMT -5
I have no argument to present in favor of military style assault weapons.
The fact is, we have failed to get guns into the hands of responsible people, so they can defend themselves and the young students to whom they have dedicated their lives and careers.
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Post by BellevueBuckeye on Feb 20, 2018 23:20:32 GMT -5
I have no argument to present in favor of military style assault weapons. Though what exactly do you mean by "military style assault weapon" ?
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Post by sportsjock on Feb 21, 2018 2:51:00 GMT -5
You're talking to the wrong person for such a question. I own a .22 semi-auto, s .270 carbine and a 16 gage fully rifled shot gun, all used for hunting.
The fact is, we have failed to get guns into the hands of responsible people, so they can defend themselves and the young students to whom they have dedicated their lives and careers.
I often wonder how many of the kids, senselessly murdered in the what should be the 'safe' confines of their school, would be alive today had there been people to intervene, the moment the initial gunfire erupted.
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Post by galion on Feb 21, 2018 2:54:55 GMT -5
Some of you need to realize that we live in reality not an action movie. In real life the hero can't pull a random civilian off the street and have them be part of a high speed car chase or hand them a gun and be part of the big gun fight. Most of the people who are wired to run into burning buildings or toward gun shots and flying bullets are already in the military or are first responders. Shooting a gun at a gun range is a far cry from assessing and identifying a threat during panic and chaos. What happens when an armed civilian makes an error in judgement or accidentally hits a kid in the crossfire? Arming teachers and admins is a bad idea. Your absolutely right, why bother training teachers to defend themselves and their students, because they are too damn stupid to know how to handle a firearm and wouldn't have a clue on neutralizing an active shooter. Let's 'play it safe' and continue the methodic slaughter of kids cowering helplessly under a desk or in a corner. Let's 'play it safe' and hope the body count stays at an acceptable level before 'trained' 1st responders arrive on the scene.....that sure makes sense to me! No one said a thing about arming all the teachers and administrators. Select teachers and administrators would possess concealed firearms and be fully trained and prepared to respond instantaneously and neutralize the threat. Oh, and by the way, there was a security guard on the school site, when the massacre began. It is insincere to worry about future gun purchases when the next potential killers are most probably already armed. Whether legal or illegal, there are more than 300 million guns in our country. Short of a gestapo style blitz, there is no way to go back in time and re-assess our national gun policies. Our U.S. Constitution, namely the 2nd ammendment guarantees us certain rights that can never be infringed upon. Existing gun laws have failed us, mental health advocates have been in-effective, and now, based on what we know about Parkland and previous school shootings, even the FBI has failed us. It is quite evident our energies need to be redirected, not toward further meaningless 'gun control,' but rather on hardening our defenses. Public school and other public schools and other public buildings need to outfitted with steel doors and non-penetrating glass. All schools should have active shooter drills as often as they have fire drills. In coordination with police and fire departments, door barricade devises must be chosen with great care. Beyond that, guns will be a necessary component on school campuses. Guns in the possesion of paid armed guards, but also guns concealed and carried by select members of the faculty and administration. Our schools can no longer become 'free fire zones' for killers who know they will not meet any armed resistance. Rather, potential killers must believe and understand, they will face withering fire from unidentifiable (to them) individuals. It is no longer enough to wring our hands after one of these mass killings, and mouth mindless desires for 'gun control'. The time is now for officials at all levels of government to take positive action to make our schools and colleges safe and secure. You just stated that there was a security guard on site yet it didn't matter at all. And he was supposedly "trained" to deal with situations like this? Do you figure that your armed faculty members are going to have more or less training than the security guard did? Just curious, did you ever bother to stop and consider that while an armed faculty member is searching through the running students looking for the one with the weapon that all they are is just another target? Also, when did we ever direct our energies toward any meaningful gun control. Personally I think people should be required to have a license to purchase and own a gun. If my daughter needs 50 hours of driving time and a certificate from a driving instructor to drive a car then I don't feel that it is unreasonable to require the same for a firearm.
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Post by fanofthegame on Feb 21, 2018 5:21:17 GMT -5
Your absolutely right, why bother training teachers to defend themselves and their students, because they are too damn stupid to know how to handle a firearm and wouldn't have a clue on neutralizing an active shooter. Let's 'play it safe' and continue the methodic slaughter of kids cowering helplessly under a desk or in a corner. Let's 'play it safe' and hope the body count stays at an acceptable level before 'trained' 1st responders arrive on the scene.....that sure makes sense to me! No one said a thing about arming all the teachers and administrators. Select teachers and administrators would possess concealed firearms and be fully trained and prepared to respond instantaneously and neutralize the threat. Oh, and by the way, there was a security guard on the school site, when the massacre began. It is insincere to worry about future gun purchases when the next potential killers are most probably already armed. Whether legal or illegal, there are more than 300 million guns in our country. Short of a gestapo style blitz, there is no way to go back in time and re-assess our national gun policies. Our U.S. Constitution, namely the 2nd ammendment guarantees us certain rights that can never be infringed upon. Existing gun laws have failed us, mental health advocates have been in-effective, and now, based on what we know about Parkland and previous school shootings, even the FBI has failed us. It is quite evident our energies need to be redirected, not toward further meaningless 'gun control,' but rather on hardening our defenses. Public school and other public schools and other public buildings need to outfitted with steel doors and non-penetrating glass. All schools should have active shooter drills as often as they have fire drills. In coordination with police and fire departments, door barricade devises must be chosen with great care. Beyond that, guns will be a necessary component on school campuses. Guns in the possesion of paid armed guards, but also guns concealed and carried by select members of the faculty and administration. Our schools can no longer become 'free fire zones' for killers who know they will not meet any armed resistance. Rather, potential killers must believe and understand, they will face withering fire from unidentifiable (to them) individuals. It is no longer enough to wring our hands after one of these mass killings, and mouth mindless desires for 'gun control'. The time is now for officials at all levels of government to take positive action to make our schools and colleges safe and secure. You just stated that there was a security guard on site yet it didn't matter at all. And he was supposedly "trained" to deal with situations like this? Do you figure that your armed faculty members are going to have more or less training than the security guard did? Just curious, did you ever bother to stop and consider that while an armed faculty member is searching through the running students looking for the one with the weapon that all they are is just another target? Also, when did we ever direct our energies toward any meaningful gun control. Personally I think people should be required to have a license to purchase and own a gun. If my daughter needs 50 hours of driving time and a certificate from a driving instructor to drive a car then I don't feel that it is unreasonable to require the same for a firearm. 50 hours sounds about right to start with to get a concealed carry. Plus I’d require yearly recertifications on a range. It takes 16 hours currently to get a drivers license. That’s a 2000+ pound weapon that kills more people per year than all assault rifles. Why is the public not outraged and calling for the banning of cars and more training to get licensed? I know it’s not an apples to apples comparison. You’re going to say we need cars and transportation, but we don’t need guns. My point is perspective. This was a senseless killing. We need to look at all reasonable options then see how they work. Seatbelts don’t save everyone in a car accident, but we wear them. If training and arming willing and qualified teachers limits the death toll in a shooting or two then we continue. If it doesn’t then we abandon the program. It’s a quicker solution than legislation and implementation. Knowing there is armed resistance also has the potential for deterrence.
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Post by sportsjock on Feb 21, 2018 8:00:30 GMT -5
There are schools who already have this program in place. The faculty members with the responsibility of carrying firearms are in total discretion and secrecy. None of the students know who they are.
This is basically a local school district decision, that doesn't require an act of Congress.
At Parkland the school has a multi-building campus, much like a small college campus. The security guard was unfortunately located in another building when the shooting commenced. Who would have more conviction and personal dedication to protecting the students, even to the extent of laying their own life on the line for them? A punch the time clock employee, with perhaps limited background and low pay scale, or a dedicated faculty member, who's life career is educating and nurturing young minds they are mentoring. This recent incident showed us such love and dedication to protect his kids from harm, that he gave his life, while offering his body as a human shield....God Bless him! He ran toward danger, what would he have accomplished had he had a firearm? How many students lives would have been spared?
The key is to have sufficient number of faculty with concealed carry, as it would be assured that there is protection provided throughout all areas of the school facilities at all times. .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 8:06:44 GMT -5
There are schools who already have this program in place. The faculty members with the responsibility of carrying firearms are in total discretion and secrecy. None of the students know who they are. This is basically a local school district decision, that doesn't require an act of Congress. At Parkland the school has a multi-building campus, much like a small college campus. The security guard was unfortunately located in another building when the shooting commenced. I think it needs to be known that school district allows their employees to carry weapons. That fact would likely scare away the idea of shooting up a school. Personally I’m not sold that most teachers I’ve been around have it in them to shoot a person or have any business carrying a firearm in the first place
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