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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 15:17:58 GMT -5
So what's your solution if no members of staff have a CC? In this day and age, it is highly unlikely that would be the case. I think these kind of CC programs already in place, originated from a voluntary status. I can't imagine an entire faculty opting out. Spoke with an CC instructor today who offers the course for free to any educator interested in getting theirs.
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Post by moneyball on Feb 22, 2018 16:29:44 GMT -5
It is public information and fact, all you have to do is request it and it is yours no matter what city you live in. Did you about spit your coffee out because you think it is untrue or shocked that they are actually making this kind of salary? yes it is and apparently you have no idea how to use google www.google.com/amp/s/articles.niche.com/teacher-salaries-in-america/amp/I’m very familiar with the website and i happen to use google once in a while. the site is not always up to date and it does not show you who is making what like the requested report shows.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 17:42:09 GMT -5
So what's your solution if no members of staff have a CC? In this day and age, it is highly unlikely that would be the case. I think these kind of CC programs already in place, originated from a voluntary status. I can't imagine an entire faculty opting out. I can. Ever been to a k-3 building? How often do you see a male teacher there? Not that a woman can’t handle a gun, but it’s a a safe bet there are a lot more male members of the NRA
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 17:47:52 GMT -5
Scrolling thru the site you provided it shows the average teacher wage for the schools to be.............................. Clyde $52,400 Ontario $62,000 Vermilion $ 65,800 Willard $67,000 Norwalk $63,900 Port Clinton $62,000 Shelby $63,900 Perkins $70,000 Sandusky $66,100 This is listed as the average teacher salary for the district on the website above Average for the state of Ohio is $58k. I mean if you think that’s a lot of money that’s fine. To me that’s not enough for me to do even more work and add an extreme responsibility. You think the opposite than that’s fine. I still haven’t had anyone come up with where the additional funding will come from. It sure isn’t coming from the National govt
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 17:53:40 GMT -5
I think it needs to be known that school district allows their employees to carry weapons. That fact would likely scare away the idea of shooting up a school. Personally I’m not sold that most teachers I’ve been around have it in them to shoot a person or have any business carrying a firearm in the first place Without a doubt, the community would be well aware of protective policies implemented and yes, it would be a major deterrent. Do you think the teacher/coach who threw himself in front of the shooter as a human shield, sacrificing his life for his students would hesitate one instant to neutralize killer, had he been adequately armed? The teachers possessing any hint of squeemishness or moral issues with the use of a firearm, simply will not participate in such a program. They will hide under their desk or quiver behind a closed door, while the active shooter moves about. What kind of teacher would you want to be acting on your childs behalf? A babysitter or a teacher, willing to put personal safety aside and committed to becoming an active defender, taking his/her energies toward the shooter, putting the shooter on the defensive? only the person making that sacrifice can answer that question. God rest their souls. I will say saving lives and taking a life are 2 entirely different things
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Post by kingmartinez on Feb 22, 2018 17:55:25 GMT -5
You guys don't have to worry about this (staff carrying guns) - it ain't happening in our area. SE/SW Ohio or very rural schools, maybe but not around here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 18:02:18 GMT -5
You guys don't have to worry about this - it ain't happening in our area. SE/SW Ohio or very rural schools, maybe but not around here. You don’t remember Chardon in 2012?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 18:54:04 GMT -5
Anyone hear of COMMON SENCE, well a lot of you don't have it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 20:03:24 GMT -5
Anyone hear of COMMON SENCE, well a lot of you don't have it. that’s not a word
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Post by kingmartinez on Feb 22, 2018 21:01:49 GMT -5
You guys don't have to worry about this - it ain't happening in our area. SE/SW Ohio or very rural schools, maybe but not around here. You don’t remember Chardon in 2012? I'm referring to staff members carrying guns in schools. Every school knows a tragedy could happen to any of them. I just clarified that in my previous post.
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Post by moneyball on Feb 22, 2018 22:32:43 GMT -5
Scrolling thru the site you provided it shows the average teacher wage for the schools to be.............................. Clyde $52,400 Ontario $62,000 Vermilion $ 65,800 Willard $67,000 Norwalk $63,900 Port Clinton $62,000 Shelby $63,900 Perkins $70,000 Sandusky $66,100 This is listed as the average teacher salary for the district on the website above Average for the state of Ohio is $58k. I mean if you think that’s a lot of money that’s fine. To me that’s not enough for me to do even more work and add an extreme responsibility. You think the opposite than that’s fine. I still haven’t had anyone come up with where the additional funding will come from. It sure isn’t coming from the National govt How about a portion of the tax levy that they are going to pass that has an undetermined amount of time on the books. what was it, $1.9 milllion per year.
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Post by galion on Feb 23, 2018 4:29:27 GMT -5
You think just having a CC is going to be enough to walk around a school system with a loaded weapon? You must be nuts. galion, I know you can comprehend better than that. What I said was ask the employees who already have a CC if they would want to participate in a "Safer School" program. There is no pressure to volunteer and no compensation(other than maybe saving your life or one of your students). If nobody is interested then it would not happen. If a student drops without a heartbeat while walking the halls, some teachers will immediately go get the AED. Others will call 911 and hold the child's hand. Both are helping save a child's but neither are compensated. Yes, but in your example nobody is running toward gunfire and being asked to potentially take a life. It's not even close to the same thing.
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Post by galion on Feb 23, 2018 4:35:40 GMT -5
I have an idea, how about all of you who expect the faculty to voluntarily do this go get your CC's and then take all of the prerequisite training needed to carry a loaded weapon around a school building. Then you can VOLUNTEER your time and potentially your life as well. C'mon put your money where your mouths are.
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Post by fanofthegame on Feb 23, 2018 5:18:14 GMT -5
I work in a medical facility with those same stupid signs that say no firearms. The administration makes exceptions on a case by case basis. I’ve recently taken the concealed carry class. As soon as I can get to one of the sheriff offices I’m going to get my official permit. If the administration will grant me an exception I’ll be carrying. I work near an entrance so I figure I’m in one of the better positions to be armed. Money meet mouth.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 5:35:38 GMT -5
Scrolling thru the site you provided it shows the average teacher wage for the schools to be.............................. Clyde $52,400 Ontario $62,000 Vermilion $ 65,800 Willard $67,000 Norwalk $63,900 Port Clinton $62,000 Shelby $63,900 Perkins $70,000 Sandusky $66,100 This is listed as the average teacher salary for the district on the website above Average for the state of Ohio is $58k. I mean if you think that’s a lot of money that’s fine. To me that’s not enough for me to do even more work and add an extreme responsibility. You think the opposite than that’s fine. I still haven’t had anyone come up with where the additional funding will come from. It sure isn’t coming from the National govt Who said it was a lot of money? I only provided proof, from the website provided, that the average wage in schools in our area is far above what you were trying to imply. You originally said the Ohio average was $56k and now you are at $58k. We all get it. If you were a teacher and they asked you if you wanted to show your CC and have your weapon while teaching the kids to defend yourself and others in case a nut job walked the halls, you would say "not unless I get paid". That is part of why I think it would need to be volunteer. Because the people that already have their CC feel they use a weapon if attacked. Not everyone could do it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 5:40:59 GMT -5
galion, I know you can comprehend better than that. What I said was ask the employees who already have a CC if they would want to participate in a "Safer School" program. There is no pressure to volunteer and no compensation(other than maybe saving your life or one of your students). If nobody is interested then it would not happen. If a student drops without a heartbeat while walking the halls, some teachers will immediately go get the AED. Others will call 911 and hold the child's hand. Both are helping save a child's but neither are compensated. Yes, but in your example nobody is running toward gunfire and being asked to potentially take a life. It's not even close to the same thing. I was not trying to claim it was the same thing. My example shows that some have a mindset to act and others do not. It's not a judgement, but a fact. You cannot pay someone to do something they are not wired to do. Why do you think most people apply for their CC? And if you do not want to volunteer, then you say no. That simple.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 5:47:00 GMT -5
I have an idea, how about all of you who expect the faculty to voluntarily do this go get your CC's and then take all of the prerequisite training needed to carry a loaded weapon around a school building. Then you can VOLUNTEER your time and potentially your life as well. C'mon put your money where your mouths are. Let's try this again. Nobody is asking anyone to get anything. I would ask if any building employees already have their CC. That is where is starts. YOu probably already know of Galion employees who do. Nobody would be asking a CC individual to replace the police department. It's an initial line of defense, just like training to use the AED until help arrives.
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Post by galion on Feb 23, 2018 5:53:58 GMT -5
Carrying a gun is like training to use an AED. If you're not asking them to replace the police department then why ask them to carry weapons and patrol the school? It's all moot anyway. If it comes down to having armed people stationed in our schools they will simply add officers and deputies to the law enforcement agencies that cover the district. They are not going to arm civilians.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 6:19:46 GMT -5
Carrying a gun is like training to use an AED. If you're not asking them to replace the police department then why ask them to carry weapons and patrol the school? It's all moot anyway. If it comes down to having armed people stationed in our schools they will simply add officers and deputies to the law enforcement agencies that cover the district. They are not going to arm civilians. You have it wrong. I'm not asking anyone to do anything. I would allow a CC individual to be able to protect themselves and others if a intruder busts into their classroom and starts shooting. I'm not asking anyone to run down a hallway looking for a gun fight. The CC is offered for protection, not to turn someone into Rambo. More and more law abiding civilians are arming themselves and you do not know this is moot.
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Post by galion on Feb 23, 2018 6:31:49 GMT -5
So anyone with a CC should be allowed to bring their guns to school? Arming yourself is a far cry from being well trained on how to use a weapon.
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Post by fbfan on Feb 23, 2018 6:37:21 GMT -5
I think that the answer is somewhere in the middle. A CC permit holder receives training to defend themselves and others in the immediate area against a direct threat to them. OK if a teacher is hunkering down in their barricaded classroom with their students. Not sufficient for the teacher to search the hallways and "run toward gunfire". If this teacher volunteers and was given additional law enforcement training, then perhaps a more proactive response could be had. Like anything, this will require more training and more expense. The training should be paid for, and the teacher should be compensated for it, just like they are for advanced educational training.
We have found the money over the years to pay for additional training, personnel, compensation for advanced degrees, and supplemental contracts for extracurricular coaches that were not needed years ago. Is it too much to ask that our children's safety and security be put on the same level as these other things?
And one more thing. IMO labeling a school or any other place as a "Gun free zone" is like declaring a "sanctuary city". It sends the wrong message to those who would ignore the law and/or do harm to innocent citizens.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 6:42:52 GMT -5
So anyone with a CC should be allowed to bring their guns to school? Arming yourself is a far cry from being well trained on how to use a weapon. Again, it's not what was said. Buying a gun does not qualify you for a CC. Maybe you should know that before you can understand what a CC permit is.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 6:45:40 GMT -5
TYPE A: I think that the answer is somewhere in the middle. A CC permit holder receives training to defend themselves and others in the immediate area against a direct threat to them. OK if a teacher is hunkering down in their barricaded classroom with their students. Not sufficient for the teacher to search the hallways and "run toward gunfire". T YPE B: If this teacher volunteers and was given additional law enforcement training, then perhaps a more proactive response could be had. Like anything, this will require more training and more expense. The training should be paid for, and the teacher should be compensated for it, just like they are for advanced educational training. I have been talking about implementing Type A.
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Post by fbfan on Feb 23, 2018 6:49:45 GMT -5
Carrying a gun is like training to use an AED. If you're not asking them to replace the police department then why ask them to carry weapons and patrol the school? It's all moot anyway. If it comes down to having armed people stationed in our schools they will simply add officers and deputies to the law enforcement agencies that cover the district. They are not going to arm civilians. Not necessarily. Governmental entities that do not have the financial resources for a paid fire department train volunteer "civilians" to run into burning buildings. Not the best or safest way to provide the protection, but that's how we currently do it. Similar situation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 7:55:02 GMT -5
Average for the state of Ohio is $58k. I mean if you think that’s a lot of money that’s fine. To me that’s not enough for me to do even more work and add an extreme responsibility. You think the opposite than that’s fine. I still haven’t had anyone come up with where the additional funding will come from. It sure isn’t coming from the National govt Who said it was a lot of money? I only provided proof, from the website provided, that the average wage in schools in our area is far above what you were trying to imply. You originally said the Ohio average was $56k and now you are at $58k. We all get it. If you were a teacher and they asked you if you wanted to show your CC and have your weapon while teaching the kids to defend yourself and others in case a nut job walked the halls, you would say "not unless I get paid". That is part of why I think it would need to be volunteer. Because the people that already have their CC feel they use a weapon if attacked. Not everyone could do it. No I didn’t. I said the national average is 56k. How many teacher’s in a building do people think have a CC. I bet it’s less than 1 on average
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Post by fbfan on Feb 23, 2018 8:57:00 GMT -5
If this teacher volunteers and was given additional law enforcement training, then perhaps a more proactive response could be had. Like anything, this will require more training and more expense. The training should be paid for, and the teacher should be compensated for it, just like they are for advanced educational training. We have found the money over the years to pay for additional training, personnel, compensation for advanced degrees, and supplemental contracts for extracurricular coaches that were not needed years ago. Is it too much to ask that our children's safety and security not be put on the same level as these other things? Just heard on the news that the County Sheriff Resource Officer who was on the school ground and did not enter during the shooting was making 100K+ (with O.T.). Apparently, there was some money available in Parkland's case, they just spent it on the wrong guy. Should have paid for some training, a ballistic vest, and a 9mm to the football coach.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 9:15:56 GMT -5
Who said it was a lot of money? I only provided proof, from the website provided, that the average wage in schools in our area is far above what you were trying to imply. You originally said the Ohio average was $56k and now you are at $58k. We all get it. If you were a teacher and they asked you if you wanted to show your CC and have your weapon while teaching the kids to defend yourself and others in case a nut job walked the halls, you would say "not unless I get paid". That is part of why I think it would need to be volunteer. Because the people that already have their CC feel they use a weapon if attacked. Not everyone could do it. No I didn’t. I said the national average is 56k. How many teacher’s in a building do people think have a CC. I bet it’s less than 1 on average Thanks for that correction but who cares what the National average is. If you are correct with the "less than 1 on average" then my idea would not work. But I would ask ALL employees, not just teachers and if the number was 5 that had their CC I would begin with them.
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Post by utsherman on Feb 23, 2018 10:15:39 GMT -5
So let's say you "ask" for current administration with a CC to volunteer, and they're willing. What's the process for initiation of that program? What if another teacher isn't comfortable with that approach, knowing that another teacher anonymously carries a firearm in the school? I would assume the whole of the staff would have to sign-off? Is it thrown on the ballet? It now seems as if this is POTUS's big solution to the problem. Oh, and he floated the idea of bonuses for these volunteers as well. Maybe the NRA can cover them?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 10:28:46 GMT -5
There are just to many questions for this to actually ever work and/or happen. I could be wrong. Something else that hasn’t been brought up. I think all of us that have had kids can say that children are very inquisitive. You know they will be asking the teachers with guns if they can see it and what not. That would get old. Would it be more scary having a loaded gun in schools at all times or the threat of a possible shooter? Like I said, to many questions
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Post by sportsjock on Feb 23, 2018 10:58:19 GMT -5
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