|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Nov 1, 2018 19:42:19 GMT -5
Every team has joint open gyms. Coaches don't coach but they can watch. Ontario has them all the time with other teams, just like everyone else. And technically I suppose that anyone could suit up for anyone else. It's just a generally accepted thing and has been for years. No where in the OHSAA regulations for Open Gyms, is the term "joint open gyms" used. If Ontario has them as you describe, they aren't playing by the rules either. If it is a "generally accepted thing", that would be a first. Can you name another "generally accepted thing" that is different than what is in the OHSAA Bylaws? Don't go by "generally accepted things". Google "OHSAA basketball open gym regulations" and see what they are.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 1, 2018 23:30:30 GMT -5
Every team has joint open gyms. Coaches don't coach but they can watch. Ontario has them all the time with other teams, just like everyone else. And technically I suppose that anyone could suit up for anyone else. It's just a generally accepted thing and has been for years. This is true I have been to some since they are open to public. Nothing official, just multiple schools playing open gym ball.
|
|
|
Post by lineitup1 on Nov 2, 2018 7:48:38 GMT -5
Is this the final season in the MOAC for Buckeye Valley basketball? Yes, this is BV's Final basketball season in the MOAC.
|
|
|
Post by homewrecker on Nov 2, 2018 10:52:43 GMT -5
Shelby has some good players but gets out coached easily.
|
|
|
Post by brownsguy on Nov 2, 2018 11:01:04 GMT -5
Home wrecker.... that’s an interesting point about Shelby and coaching. I haven’t heard this before about their coaching staff. That being said, who do you guys feel are the top 3 coaches in this league?
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 2, 2018 11:07:23 GMT -5
Home wrecker.... that’s an interesting point about Shelby and coaching. I haven’t heard this before about their coaching staff. That being said, who do you guys feel are the top 3 coaches in this league? That would be a typical response from a unhappy past or current Shelby basketball parent. He is probably one of if not the most successful basketball coach in Shelby history.
|
|
gt1975
All District
Posts: 886
|
Post by gt1975 on Nov 2, 2018 11:38:39 GMT -5
Head Coaching Records (at current school):
Joe Balogh, Ontario- (548-205, .728) Steven Bechtel, Clear Fork- (92-132, .411) Troy Schwemley, Shelby- (172-100, .632) Matt Valentine, Galion- (11-35, .239) Don Worstell, Marion Harding- (47-45, .511) Ben Snively, Pleasant- (75-39, .658) Barry Egan, River Valley- (5-18, .217) Andy Gast, Buckeye Valley- (56-61, .479)
|
|
gt1975
All District
Posts: 886
|
Post by gt1975 on Nov 2, 2018 11:41:14 GMT -5
Home wrecker.... that’s an interesting point about Shelby and coaching. I haven’t heard this before about their coaching staff. That being said, who do you guys feel are the top 3 coaches in this league? My top 3: 1. Joe Balogh, Ontario 2. Troy Schwemley, Shelby 3. Ben Snively, Pleasant I really like Gast from Buckeye Valley too. I feel like they're always very competitive.
|
|
|
Post by homewrecker on Nov 2, 2018 12:03:46 GMT -5
Shelby with the right coach last year and this year potential final 4 team. With this coach last year did not win league this year will have to fight to try and win it. Coach destroyed the potential of that talented senior class last year a bunch of boys used to winning. At the end of the season there was what one senior left, Brooks Drove everyone else off including Hill right when post season started. You talk to any parent of a kid that has gone through under him.
|
|
|
Post by fanofthegame on Nov 2, 2018 12:05:07 GMT -5
Home wrecker.... that’s an interesting point about Shelby and coaching. I haven’t heard this before about their coaching staff. That being said, who do you guys feel are the top 3 coaches in this league? That would be a typical response from a unhappy past or current Shelby basketball parent. He is probably one of if not the most successful basketball coach in Shelby history. Many people know who I am. I don’t know if he comes on this site. I’ve watched him coach every year he’s been here. I had two boys play for him. Both started for varying years. One was a two time captain. He’s never asked my opinion and probably doesn’t give $0.02 about it, but I have one. 1. He’s passionate about the game. He knows x’s and o’s. He gives it 100% (even when he plays pickup and I’ve played with/against him). 2. He cares about the boys. 3. He doesn’t develop a deep enough bench. You can’t play his level of intensity with 7 guys. A bubble kid who’s fresh is still better than an exhausted starter IMO. Coach number eight and nine up. 4. He over trains/conditions. It shows come tournament time. 5. He wants to win NOW. Who doesn’t? That’s caused him to play qualified freshman. Even though they may be qualified I don’t think this builds a strong program in the long run. Kids who could contribute as juniors and seniors quit when they see freshmen playing ahead of them as sophomores. I know many on here will argue with me on this point, but it’s my opinion. They’ll say the best player should always play. 6. He doesn’t read well which kids need more carrot or more stick. Bobby Knight won motivating stick heavy, but he got to recruit players receptive to that and the players knew what they were getting. Some kids are motivated by dangling a carrot and some by avoiding the stick. Most need the right balance of both. In basketball (different from football where angry is good) too much stick kills confidence and play suffers. If he reads this he’ll either hate me or hire me as an assistant. I think if he’d fix a couple things he’d be in Columbus regularly.
|
|
|
Post by homewrecker on Nov 2, 2018 12:05:36 GMT -5
Home wrecker.... that’s an interesting point about Shelby and coaching. I haven’t heard this before about their coaching staff. That being said, who do you guys feel are the top 3 coaches in this league? I don't know many of the MOAC programs but I do like Joe Balogh at Ontario
|
|
|
Post by homewrecker on Nov 2, 2018 12:28:04 GMT -5
Home wrecker.... that’s an interesting point about Shelby and coaching. I haven’t heard this before about their coaching staff. That being said, who do you guys feel are the top 3 coaches in this league? That would be a typical response from a unhappy past or current Shelby basketball parent. He is probably one of if not the most successful basketball coach in Shelby history. That's not really saying much, Shelby has never historically been a great Basketball school. Not counting the Larry Siegfried era And I agree with the statement about trips to Columbus, the talent that has gone through during the years he has been there would have been to Columbus a few times under the right program
|
|
|
Post by shelbyrr11 on Nov 2, 2018 13:41:50 GMT -5
I question if Shelby ever had Final Four tier talent. The best Shelby teams since Schwemley arrived were 2007, 2008, and 2011. Those teams had the most successful regular seasons at 16-4, 16-4, and 18-2. The trend with any Shelby team over the past decade or so has been underachieving during the tournament, but 2007, 2008, and 2011 were the best opportunities to get to BGSU.
In 2007, that team was able to hang with the senior Jon Diebler Upper Sandusky team, losing by 4 points and 5 points in OT, but lost to Lexington in Sectionals. If Shelby had beaten Lex, it would have meant eventually running into Diebler again in the District Finals. The gambler in me says that Shelby would not have made that jump - as Upper simply had a much higher ceiling as a team that year.
In 2008, Shelby had four regular season losses to Norwalk (split the season series), Fostoria (who went 21-1 until losing to Shelby in the District Semis), and Lexington (who beat Shelby in the District Final). Had Shelby won, they would have likely beat Vermilion in the Regional Semis, but would have been tasked with beating William Buford and Toledo Libbey. Libbey wound up losing in OT on a buzzer beater in the state finals to Chillicothe. Once again, I doubt this team had mettle to top Libbey.
In 2011, this Shelby team definitely underachieved and played like an entirely different (weaker) team in the second half of the season. Even if Shelby had played up to their potential all year long, I think Toledo Rogers, who had the D2 player of the year, would have been a tall task in regionals.
Of course, each and every one of Shelby's teams over the past decade could have found a way to win more games had they been able to retain more talent and not hit the wall come tournament time. There are way too many variables to try to figure out how they could have been a different team. I just personally believe that Shelby's best three teams since Schwemley arrived had way too much competition at the regional level to ever eek out a Final Four appearance.
|
|
|
Post by fanofthegame on Nov 2, 2018 14:07:48 GMT -5
Agreed. Columbus probably wasn’t the best choice of words. Deeper run come tourney time is what I should have said.
I would say 11, 12, 13 years had more potential than realized. Nelson plus Fenner and Rhode who both played D3 b-ball surrounded by athletes (multiple players who went on to play college football).
|
|
|
Post by shelbyrr11 on Nov 2, 2018 14:40:39 GMT -5
The 11, 12, and 13 teams all left a tournament victory on the shelf. Let alone the regular season, but even the 2017 Shelby team had a poor tournament showing. I had to look in the archives to find the exact scores, but Shelby was up 31-18 at halftime against Norwalk in the sectional semi. Norwalk went on a 14-0 run to take the lead 32-31 to begin the second half. There is some hurdle that Shelby cannot seem to clear in the tournament.
|
|
|
Post by fanofthegame on Nov 2, 2018 15:53:06 GMT -5
See my comments above numbers four and six.
|
|
|
Post by homewrecker on Nov 2, 2018 18:09:07 GMT -5
Shelby players Hunter Hoffman and Uriah Schwemley are legit just saying in a different program even better
|
|
|
Post by homewrecker on Nov 2, 2018 18:27:38 GMT -5
That would be a typical response from a unhappy past or current Shelby basketball parent. He is probably one of if not the most successful basketball coach in Shelby history. Many people know who I am. I don’t know if he comes on this site. I’ve watched him coach every year he’s been here. I had two boys play for him. Both started for varying years. One was a two time captain. He’s never asked my opinion and probably doesn’t give $0.02 about it, but I have one. 1. He’s passionate about the game. He knows x’s and o’s. He gives it 100% (even when he plays pickup and I’ve played with/against him). 2. He cares about the boys. 3. He doesn’t develop a deep enough bench. You can’t play his level of intensity with 7 guys. A bubble kid who’s fresh is still better than an exhausted starter IMO. Coach number eight and nine up. 4. He over trains/conditions. It shows come tournament time. 5. He wants to win NOW. Who doesn’t? That’s caused him to play qualified freshman. Even though they may be qualified I don’t think this builds a strong program in the long run. Kids who could contribute as juniors and seniors quit when they see freshmen playing ahead of them as sophomores. I know many on here will argue with me on this point, but it’s my opinion. They’ll say the best player should always play. 6. He doesn’t read well which kids need more carrot or more stick. Bobby Knight won motivating stick heavy, but he got to recruit players receptive to that and the players knew what they were getting. Some kids are motivated by dangling a carrot and some by avoiding the stick. Most need the right balance of both. In basketball (different from football where angry is good) too much stick kills confidence and play suffers. If he reads this he’ll either hate me or hire me as an assistant. I think if he’d fix a couple things he’d be in Columbus regularly. Answer to #5 I don't think he has the skill set to develop a kid to play point guard. That's the reason why he starts so many freshmen at the position.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 2, 2018 22:53:24 GMT -5
Shelby players Hunter Hoffman and Uriah Schwemley are legit just saying in a different program even better Legit what?
|
|
|
Post by ohioraised on Nov 4, 2018 7:40:25 GMT -5
My son went to many open gyms at Ontario over his playing years. All organized by their head coach and our team was invited. And we are not in a "no contact period" right now. That is in Aug and for a month after your last game of the season. Other than that open gyms can happen all over the place. Those "open gyms" were all in June or July. I believe the maximum allowed is 10. Specific schools are invited. Coaches can coach. Officials are used. Time is kept. Scores are kept. Then comes the dead period of August. After that time, another type of "open gym" is allowed. IT IS...Open the doors of the school and gym and all players that show up choose up sides and play. No specific schools can be invited. Those playing cannot be limited by schools. No coaching allowed. No officials used. No time is kept. No scores are kept. I was in error when I said that time frame was a no contact period. It is called "Free and unrestricted play". That period runs until 11/2 this year. It can't be "free and unrestricted play", if only certain players are allowed to participate. Google "OHSAA open gym regulations" and read as I have. No those were not, they were fall. The open gyms that Ontario holds in June do not have officials, clocks or score keepers. I have been to those also. If you have those 3 things it is a scrimmage and would be part of you 10 contact days you can have in the summer. Ontario will run sometimes 8 open gyms in June but they still have their contact days to go to a shootout, have a scrimmage or a workout.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Nov 4, 2018 19:20:32 GMT -5
Yes they were too. Joe and his kids call the 8 of 10 contact days, in June and July when they scrimmage other schools "open gym". Multiple scheduled schools. Coaching is done, officials, clock and score is kept by quarter. They're even listed as such on the school website's athletic calendar. Watched them for all of Joe's 30+ years. Must be "old school".
Then there are the "open gyms' after the August down period. ACCORDING TO THE OHSAA.....they work this way:
They are defined as "Unstructured Free Play". A coach can be there, but can't "coach". Open the door to the school and open the door to the gym. ALL players that come to the open gym, choose up sides and "play basketball". Teams cannot be selected ahead of time. They can not be a mechanism to disguise a scrimmage or contest with another school. Participation can not be limited by school. Attendance can not be mandatory.
What was first described as a scrimmage between "Olentangy" and Buckeye Valley above. Was done so because it obviously was a scrimmage. Due to it being counter to every OHSAA rule listed above.
I have watched dozens of true "open gyms" at Ontario. When players came from all over Richland, Crawford and Ashland counties. They would chose up sides by 5 and played basketball. Two courts at a time. First team of 5 to a predetermined number won and stayed on the floor. The losing team left the court and another team of 5 came on the floor and played the winner. So on and so forth until the gym was closed. FUN basketball to watch. Too bad a newbie never saw one.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 5, 2018 8:33:20 GMT -5
Those "open gyms" were all in June or July. I believe the maximum allowed is 10. Specific schools are invited. Coaches can coach. Officials are used. Time is kept. Scores are kept. Then comes the dead period of August. After that time, another type of "open gym" is allowed. IT IS...Open the doors of the school and gym and all players that show up choose up sides and play. No specific schools can be invited. Those playing cannot be limited by schools. No coaching allowed. No officials used. No time is kept. No scores are kept. I was in error when I said that time frame was a no contact period. It is called "Free and unrestricted play". That period runs until 11/2 this year. It can't be "free and unrestricted play", if only certain players are allowed to participate. Google "OHSAA open gym regulations" and read as I have. No those were not, they were fall. The open gyms that Ontario holds in June do not have officials, clocks or score keepers. I have been to those also. If you have those 3 things it is a scrimmage and would be part of you 10 contact days you can have in the summer. Ontario will run sometimes 8 open gyms in June but they still have their contact days to go to a shootout, have a scrimmage or a workout. I've been top watch those open gyms in June and have never seen a ref on the floor. It was always one high school versus another who were invited.
|
|
|
Post by lozenger4 on Nov 5, 2018 10:22:51 GMT -5
Willard Fillmore is totally correct about the rules and how Ontario treats their summers. I also definitely believe Dude in that he's never seen refs on the floor. Many schools like Ontario use some of their 10 Junes/July instructional days for informal scrimmages. I remember these from when I played back in the day. They are set up like open gyms with no referees or score/time being kept (and might even be referred to by schools as open gyms), but other teams are invited and coaches provide instruction. Heck, WMFD had a video over the summer where they showed up to an Ontario open gym multi-team scrimmage and Balogh said that he likes using these summer instruction periods to coach in live situations. Coaches often stop play in the middle of the action and instruct on the fly. I fondly remember Balogh stopping play and yelling at me for "stupid hustle" in the middle of the action front of both teams (he would soon learn that I was just really slow ). In this regard, we're all talking about the same activity but calling it a different thing (WF calling it a "scrimmage" and others calling it an "open gym"). I suppose it could be referred to as an instructional open gym or an informal scrimmage, but either way it counts as one of the 10 instructional days in the summer. These instructional open gyms/informal scrimmages in the summer allow the coaches to invite who they want, make subs, and instruct while not having to pay for refs. Outside of the 10 June/July instructional days (and the no-contact periods), every team has their own open gyms, especially in the fall. Coaches still need to schedule them but nobody is turned away. Sometimes coaches invite other schools to walk in and play. I remember playing at/with Lucas, Bucyrus, Buckeye Central, Shelby, Mansfield Sr, Clear Fork, and all over NC Ohio in the fall. Sometimes we would go to opposing schools and sometimes they would come to us. We would have them on our schedule but were responsible for driving ourselves to the other schools (no school buses since it wasn't an official school activity, just a place to play with the doors open). Coaches would set up regular open gyms that were not mandatory and anyone could come. They would simply inform other coaches, "Hey, we're having an open gym at this time if you wanted to let your guys know." To clarify, no rules are broken. Technically we could have played with anyone there on any team, but we didn't want to play with guys from other schools so we just kept to our own team. I think a couple times Crestline was short on players and had guys play with us, but usually most teams just played with themselves. Either way, nobody was restricting us and everyone was invited. So to go through the checklist of what schools do in these open gyms with other schools: 1) They are defined as "Unstructured Free Play." - Yep. Players set up how long games go for, call their own fouls, and track the scoring themselves.2) A coach can be there, but can't "coach." - Yep. Coaches don't coach, they just watch (or participate). 3) Open the door to the school and open the door to the gym. - That's all that is happening. There isn't anyone turning people away. I've seen alumni and junior high kids play before.4) ALL players that come to the open gym, choose up sides and "play basketball."
- This is what happens. No coach is telling players who to play with or making substitutions, players do this on their own. Nobody is being turned away.5) Teams cannot be selected ahead of time. - And they aren't. Nobody is saying you couldn't walk across the gym and play with another school. But why would someone want to do that?6) They can not be a mechanism to disguise a scrimmage or contest with another school.
- And they aren't. With no coaching, refs, clock, plays being called, coach substitutions, spectator cost, concessions, etc. it is far from a formal contest.7) Participation can not be limited by school. - It isn't limited. If a player wants to know when there is an open gym, they need just ask their coach. I remember occasional students would come to open gyms who didn't even play basketball, including team managers.8) Attendance can not be mandatory. - It shouldn't be, although I can't speak for every team. It might affect the perception of that player by his coach, but the coach can't make him run or cut him because he didn't show up to open gyms.Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. If I'm wrong feel free to point it out, but from what I recall and from what I've been able to find this is a very common occurrence from every school.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Nov 5, 2018 16:52:24 GMT -5
No those were not, they were fall. The open gyms that Ontario holds in June do not have officials, clocks or score keepers. I have been to those also. If you have those 3 things it is a scrimmage and would be part of you 10 contact days you can have in the summer. Ontario will run sometimes 8 open gyms in June but they still have their contact days to go to a shootout, have a scrimmage or a workout. I've been top watch those open gyms in June and have never seen a ref on the floor. It was always one high school versus another who were invited. Every "open gym" scrimmage in June that I've seen at Ontario has multiple invited schools, no open doors. Always have officials, clock operators keeping time and score. Coaching is happening with every team. Joe uses 2 of 10 allowed contact days in June and July for team camp. The other 8 are used to have scrimmages with other schools or instruction days for his players only. After the dead period of August, "open gyms" are just that, "unstructured free play". All players that show up, play basketball on their own.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Nov 5, 2018 17:03:27 GMT -5
Willard Fillmore is totally correct about the rules and how Ontario treats their summers. I also definitely believe Dude in that he's never seen refs on the floor. Many schools like Ontario use some of their 10 Junes/July instructional days for informal scrimmages. I remember these from when I played back in the day. They are set up like open gyms with no referees or score/time being kept (and might even be referred to by schools as open gyms), but other teams are invited and coaches provide instruction. Heck, WMFD had a video over the summer where they showed up to an Ontario open gym multi-team scrimmage and Balogh said that he likes using these summer instruction periods to coach in live situations. Coaches often stop play in the middle of the action and instruct on the fly. I fondly remember Balogh stopping play and yelling at me for "stupid hustle" in the middle of the action front of both teams (he would soon learn that I was just really slow ). In this regard, we're all talking about the same activity but calling it a different thing (WF calling it a "scrimmage" and others calling it an "open gym"). I suppose it could be referred to as an instructional open gym or an informal scrimmage, but either way it counts as one of the 10 instructional days in the summer. These instructional open gyms/informal scrimmages in the summer allow the coaches to invite who they want, make subs, and instruct while not having to pay for refs. Outside of the 10 June/July instructional days (and the no-contact periods), every team has their own open gyms, especially in the fall. Coaches still need to schedule them but nobody is turned away. Sometimes coaches invite other schools to walk in and play. I remember playing at/with Lucas, Bucyrus, Buckeye Central, Shelby, Mansfield Sr, Clear Fork, and all over NC Ohio in the fall. Sometimes we would go to opposing schools and sometimes they would come to us. We would have them on our schedule but were responsible for driving ourselves to the other schools (no school buses since it wasn't an official school activity, just a place to play with the doors open). Coaches would set up regular open gyms that were not mandatory and anyone could come. They would simply inform other coaches, "Hey, we're having an open gym at this time if you wanted to let your guys know." To clarify, no rules are broken. Technically we could have played with anyone there on any team, but we didn't want to play with guys from other schools so we just kept to our own team. I think a couple times Crestline was short on players and had guys play with us, but usually most teams just played with themselves. Either way, nobody was restricting us and everyone was invited. So to go through the checklist of what schools do in these open gyms with other schools: 1) They are defined as "Unstructured Free Play." - Yep. Players set up how long games go for, call their own fouls, and track the scoring themselves.2) A coach can be there, but can't "coach." - Yep. Coaches don't coach, they just watch (or participate). 3) Open the door to the school and open the door to the gym. - That's all that is happening. There isn't anyone turning people away. I've seen alumni and junior high kids play before.4) ALL players that come to the open gym, choose up sides and "play basketball."
- This is what happens. No coach is telling players who to play with or making substitutions, players do this on their own. Nobody is being turned away.5) Teams cannot be selected ahead of time. - And they aren't. Nobody is saying you couldn't walk across the gym and play with another school. But why would someone want to do that?6) They can not be a mechanism to disguise a scrimmage or contest with another school.
- And they aren't. With no coaching, refs, clock, plays being called, coach substitutions, spectator cost, concessions, etc. it is far from a formal contest.7) Participation can not be limited by school. - It isn't limited. If a player wants to know when there is an open gym, they need just ask their coach. I remember occasional students would come to open gyms who didn't even play basketball, including team managers.8) Attendance can not be mandatory. - It shouldn't be, although I can't speak for every team. It might affect the perception of that player by his coach, but the coach can't make him run or cut him because he didn't show up to open gyms.Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse. If I'm wrong feel free to point it out, but from what I recall and from what I've been able to find this is a very common occurrence from every school. This all started when a parent or fan from Buckeye Valley said he went to scrimmage at BV, the end of October. He said "Olentangy" was there playing Buckeye Valley. He said nothing about other school's players being there. Based on what he said it didn't sound like "free and unstructured play". A specific school from a suburb of Columbus was invited to play against Buckeye Valley. No one else. Someone had to decide what players were going to play when. It just didn't sound like what an open gym in October is supposed to be, in accordance with OHSAA rules for open gyms.
|
|
|
Post by ohioraised on Nov 6, 2018 8:27:22 GMT -5
I've been top watch those open gyms in June and have never seen a ref on the floor. It was always one high school versus another who were invited. Every "open gym" scrimmage in June that I've seen at Ontario has multiple invited schools, no open doors. Always have officials, clock operators keeping time and score. Coaching is happening with every team. Joe uses 2 of 10 allowed contact days in June and July for team camp. The other 8 are used to have scrimmages with other schools or instruction days for his players only. After the dead period of August, "open gyms" are just that, "unstructured free play". All players that show up, play basketball on their own. For 4 years my son went to Ontario for open gyms and for 3 of them I drove him because he could not travel with the team or else it was considered a contact day. in those 4 years of playing open gyms at Ontario, the clock was never on, there was never a ref and nobody ever kept score other than the teams playing. Some coaches did coach but some just watched. The younger kids played in the gym by the pool and the older kids played in the main gym using both courts. In 4 years I never saw one ref, scorekeeper or clock operator.
|
|
|
Post by fanofthegame on Nov 6, 2018 12:53:18 GMT -5
Both of my boys played during the summer in Ontario. They were contact days. All coaches coached. There were no refs or clocks. They played to a certain score. Once the team got to that score someone on the winning team had to hit a free throw to really win (simulate game pressure). If they didn’t their score dropped to a set score and play resumed. They rotated teams so everyone played each team multiple times.
|
|
|
Post by purefan on Nov 6, 2018 13:53:38 GMT -5
There is some truth to what everyone has posted. With having 3 sons play for cc and attend many “open gyms” at ontario this is what i have noticed. Ontario does have open gyms that are true open gyms with zero coaches,no officials,no clock or scorekeepers. Kids from many area schools go and pick teams and play in true open gym fashion. Joe also holds team scrimmages that count against each attending schools “contact days”. Usually 6 to 8 area teams attend with there varsity and jv teams. CC attends 2 of these. Score is kept with a running clock and coaches do coach. I have attended many of these and only twice were there officials. Usually either the coaches or the players call there own fouls. Joe also has a summer camp where kids from area schools are placed on teams by him according to each kids skill level that each kids parents fill out. He then trys to have each team as equal as possible to compete. Clocks run and score is kept and most of the time there are officials. Joe is a first class person and coach and all of his stuff is very well organized and run first class. Hope this helps to clear things up a bit.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Nov 7, 2018 1:33:59 GMT -5
Every "open gym" scrimmage in June that I've seen at Ontario has multiple invited schools, no open doors. Always have officials, clock operators keeping time and score. Coaching is happening with every team. Joe uses 2 of 10 allowed contact days in June and July for team camp. The other 8 are used to have scrimmages with other schools or instruction days for his players only. After the dead period of August, "open gyms" are just that, "unstructured free play". All players that show up, play basketball on their own. For 4 years my son went to Ontario for open gyms and for 3 of them I drove him because he could not travel with the team or else it was considered a contact day. in those 4 years of playing open gyms at Ontario, the clock was never on, there was never a ref and nobody ever kept score other than the teams playing. Some coaches did coach but some just watched. The younger kids played in the gym by the pool and the older kids played in the main gym using both courts. In 4 years I never saw one ref, scorekeeper or clock operator. I don't get it. You had to drive your son. He couldn't travel with the team. How did the team get there? Why was your son singled out and not allowed to travel with the team? That would NOT be one of the allowed 10 contact days. Those have specific schools invited, ALL coaches coach, there are usually officials, time and score is kept. What you describe that took place, sounds like a true open gym, EXCEPT coaches shouldn't be coaching.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Nov 7, 2018 1:45:27 GMT -5
There is some truth to what everyone has posted. With having 3 sons play for cc and attend many “open gyms” at ontario this is what i have noticed. Ontario does have open gyms that are true open gyms with zero coaches,no officials,no clock or scorekeepers. Kids from many area schools go and pick teams and play in true open gym fashion. Joe also holds team scrimmages that count against each attending schools “contact days”. Usually 6 to 8 area teams attend with there varsity and jv teams. CC attends 2 of these. Score is kept with a running clock and coaches do coach. I have attended many of these and only twice were there officials. Usually either the coaches or the players call there own fouls. Joe also has a summer camp where kids from area schools are placed on teams by him according to each kids skill level that each kids parents fill out. He then trys to have each team as equal as possible to compete. Clocks run and score is kept and most of the time there are officials. Joe is a first class person and coach and all of his stuff is very well organized and run first class. Hope this helps to clear things up a bit. Someone else that knows EXACTLY how things are done at Ontario on contact days and open gyms that are not on contact days. If they'e weren't officials, Joe couldn't get any or it was a last minute decision to scrimmage teams. I've only seen them when there were offlcials. Strange that only ohioraised doesn't know. Ummm.... maybe not so strange. The officials in the summer camp games, 8th grade and younger, are Joe's staff members, varsity players, AND Joe himself. Joe doesn't coach then when offciating, but he will complement kids on good play. He prides himself in knowing the kids by their first names without notes, when he talks to them.
|
|