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Post by fanofthegame on May 22, 2019 8:02:47 GMT -5
If you had a few more boys and a couples girls to experience some more coaches you may find that a high percentage of them are not social giants but are good coaches. It can be amazing how someone can say THEY know what is best for someone but yet tell another they do not have the same ability. You grade for X's and O's motivates me to ask a questions. What personal or professional experience do you have that qualifies you to be able to evaluate an 18 year veteran coach? I do see your points on being a public figure and the obvious presence of public scrutiny, but what gives your opinion value or merit? Before someone flies off the handle I will say that I know who fan is and respect him as a father and a professional.I’m not offended at all so nobody needs to jump to my defense. I have stayed at a Holiday Inn express. Does that count? I’ll give you another example (besides the overtraining one) of why he doesn’t get a better grade on strategery. IMO an in bounds play under your own basket is an opportunity to score every single time. I’ve watched for years our teams struggle to even get the ball inbounds under the five second count. 90% of the time we lob the ball to the top of the key. We haven’t had the strongest of post play, but anyone with position can drop step and finish or get fouled. Our guards have never been able to make a post entry pass. I think these are some fundamentals. I could go on for days on his D grade.
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Post by sport24278 on May 22, 2019 8:10:55 GMT -5
If your guards got to HS and cannot make a post entry pass, then that's on your ms and youth coaches, not your varsity coach. I always thought his teams played hard and we well prepared, and that goes back to his columbus grove team at state. I was never in a huddle with him, but i can tell you that he did a bunch of advance scouting for norwalk when they won state in 2014, and his x's and o's work was pretty damn good.
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Post by fanofthegame on May 22, 2019 8:38:44 GMT -5
If your guards got to HS and cannot make a post entry pass, then that's on your ms and youth coaches, not your varsity coach. I always thought his teams played hard and we well prepared, and that goes back to his columbus grove team at state. I was never in a huddle with him, but i can tell you that he did a bunch of advance scouting for norwalk when they won state in 2014, and his x's and o's work was pretty damn good. Who is responsible for what junior high coaches are teaching?
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Post by dude on May 22, 2019 9:05:19 GMT -5
If your guards got to HS and cannot make a post entry pass, then that's on your ms and youth coaches, not your varsity coach. I always thought his teams played hard and we well prepared, and that goes back to his columbus grove team at state. I was never in a huddle with him, but i can tell you that he did a bunch of advance scouting for norwalk when they won state in 2014, and his x's and o's work was pretty damn good. Who is responsible for what junior high coaches are teaching? You are correct that it ultimately falls upon the head coach, but correct me if wrong, wasn't one of the jh coaches a parent that was unhappy with his own son's use. Which now results in his little brother playing for another school. The point is you can give direction but does it need to be given when teaching fundamentals.
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Post by fanofthegame on May 22, 2019 9:15:00 GMT -5
Who is responsible for what junior high coaches are teaching? You are correct that it ultimately falls upon the head coach, but correct me if wrong, wasn't one of the jh coaches a parent that was unhappy with his own son's use. Which now results in his little brother playing for another school. The point is you can give direction but does it need to be given when teaching fundamentals. Yes, I am entirely responsible for what happens in my office. I also take responsibility for what happens when I care for someone in the hospital even though I don’t set all the hospital policies. If a problem arises I fix it. When you are the captain you are responsible.
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Post by dude on May 22, 2019 9:32:28 GMT -5
You are correct that it ultimately falls upon the head coach, but correct me if wrong, wasn't one of the jh coaches a parent that was unhappy with his own son's use. Which now results in his little brother playing for another school. The point is you can give direction but does it need to be given when teaching fundamentals. Yes, I am entirely responsible for what happens in my office. I also take responsibility for what happens when I care for someone in the hospital even though I don’t set all the hospital policies. If a problem arises I fix it. When you are the captain you are responsible. You have 100% control over your hires and their pay and their daily duties. Most head coaches vary in responsibility as to who, why and how a jh coach is hired due to unions, personal connections and a board approval. It's obvious that your example was your problem as he was the second winningest coach in Shelby history.
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Post by fanofthegame on May 22, 2019 9:43:19 GMT -5
Yes, I am entirely responsible for what happens in my office. I also take responsibility for what happens when I care for someone in the hospital even though I don’t set all the hospital policies. If a problem arises I fix it. When you are the captain you are responsible. You have 100% control over your hires and their pay and their daily duties. Most head coaches vary in responsibility as to who, why and how a jh coach is hired due to unions, personal connections and a board approval. It's obvious that your example was your problem as he was the second winningest coach in Shelby history. Is that like being the skinniest kid at fat camp? I’ll admit I have high standards. I was fortunate enough to be on a team that played eight games at OU and one in Columbus my junior and senior year. That’s not my bar. Districts would be nice. I’d like the kids to play somewhere other than a high school.
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Post by dude on May 22, 2019 10:26:21 GMT -5
You have 100% control over your hires and their pay and their daily duties. Most head coaches vary in responsibility as to who, why and how a jh coach is hired due to unions, personal connections and a board approval. It's obvious that your example was your problem as he was the second winningest coach in Shelby history. Is that like being the skinniest kid at fat camp? I’ll admit I have high standards. I was fortunate enough to be on a team that played eight games at OU and one in Columbus my junior and senior year. That’s not my bar. Districts would be nice. I’d like the kids to play somewhere other than a high school. I wouldn't say its like that because being a fat camp is dealing with a negative and your community sees the basketball program as a positive. It could be more like being in second place on the all time scoring list. With that in mind, your previous guy coached 6 of the top 10 on the all time scoring list for Shelby according to the local historian. Most district are held at a high school but I get your point. Getting to a district can be difficult when your sectional is loaded with good teams.
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Post by fanofthegame on May 22, 2019 12:04:23 GMT -5
The point of that saying is being the best at something with a relatively low standard isn’t a great accomplishment. Being the second winningest basketball coach at Duke or North Carolina is more impressive than the second winningest coach at, say, Purdue.
I do have 100% control of my office personnel and policy, but not the hospital. If someone complains about a problem when I am on call I follow through on fixing the problem even when I didn’t create it because they are under my care. The buck stops with me. If a JV or junior high coach isn’t doing what I ask after a couple of chances he’d be watching from the stands the next year.
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Post by dude on May 22, 2019 12:44:17 GMT -5
The point of that saying is being the best at something with a relatively low standard isn’t a great accomplishment. Being the second winningest basketball coach at Duke or North Carolina is more impressive than the second winningest coach at, say, Purdue. I do have 100% control of my office personnel and policy, but not the hospital. If someone complains about a problem when I am on call I follow through on fixing the problem even when I didn’t create it because they are under my care. The buck stops with me. If a JV or junior high coach isn’t doing what I ask after a couple of chances he’d be watching from the stands the next year. Very true, an Ontario fan does not care who the second, third or first winningest coach at Shelby is, but if you are a fan of Purdue, there is no difference. It is very obvious that there are those who support Shelby basketball do not hold it to a low standard. I understand your points, but let me ask, what 5 people do the hiring for your office and what union guidelines do you have to follow in hiring?
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Post by fanofthegame on May 23, 2019 6:59:47 GMT -5
I hear what you’re saying, but no coach I ever had accepted excuses. Coaching isn’t easy. It is a choice. When you take the job you agree to develop positive characteristics in the players and to try to win games. I believe to do that you need a staff from the bottom up. I remember Chris Solis coming to 1-2 peewee football practices a week when he coached Shelby football. He had 0 control over that program. It was independent of the school system. He talked with those of us coaching and gave us some pointers. We ran a dumbed down version of his schemes. He addressed the kids as a group at the end of practice. That’s the kind of thing that builds from the ground up. If you want to get to the next level that’s next level stuff.
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Post by dude on May 23, 2019 7:58:47 GMT -5
I can't say that your coach made excuses only that sometimes the answer is not what you want it to be or think it should be. You continue to mention your beliefs but I have never seen your name listed as the head coach so your beliefs have never been in play to guide the basketball program. My point behind this lengthy and enjoyable conversation is that regardless of what your personal feelings are, you lost a good coach. I've heard stories from people about how when they were younger their coach was tough, our this guys was strict or this boss made us work hard. But today when a coach does it, HE works the kids to hard or HE is not a nice guy and not friends with his kids. Say what you want, and I do respect your opinion in general, but coaches are hired to win. Teach positive characteristics yourself at home. Some bad guys have long successful careers and many great guys who love working with kids get fired after 2 seasons. The next level is gained by hard work and studies, not by blaming or crediting your high school coach. Does the family of a former Otterbein player credit the high school coach for him making the next level? Was your son 3-17 his junior and senior seasons in high school but still played college ball? Did he make it due to the success of his team or on individual merit? I believe your older son was 2-18 in his last two high school seasons but still made next level also.
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Post by beenaroundthegame on May 23, 2019 8:41:04 GMT -5
Fanofthegame, I don’t even know where to begin. You are complaining about Schwemley, yet he’s also the same guy who allowed your son to walk right into a starting position after the season started. Would your high school coach allowed you to do that? I don’t think so. Oh and you’re also the same guy who got into it with Coach Will on the sideline, then walked up the bleachers throwing out profanity so that everyone could hear you.
Now you want to grade his coaching abilities yet weren’t you a St Mary’s coach? I believe you were. You talk about guards not being able to make an entry pass into the post, that would have been you teaching the guards the fundamentals at St Mary’s. Thinking you didn’t do a good job.
Also, if I remember correctly. I remember hearing about how you was always complaining about Coach Schwemley and how he did things but I never did hear anything about how your girls were coached. Are you telling me they were coached better? I really doubt that.
One last thing and then I’m done. Would you like it if someone went on social media and bashed you nonstop about how you did things? Or even gave you grades? I doubt it, and before you go on the rant that you could deal with it. Please Don’t! Have you ever thought about how his family feels reading the things you are saying especially when Schwemley coached your boys and even gave your oldest a chance when most coaches wouldn’t have.
I guess what I’m saying is that a man in your position and even your spouse. You really shouldn’t go to social media to do your bashing because you’re really starting to look like a bigger jack hole than you are. 😉
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Post by fanofthegame on May 23, 2019 11:45:28 GMT -5
Fanofthegame, I don’t even know where to begin. You are complaining about Schwemley, yet he’s also the same guy who allowed your son to walk right into a starting position after the season started. Would your high school coach allowed you to do that? I don’t think so. Oh and you’re also the same guy who got into it with Coach Will on the sideline, then walked up the bleachers throwing out profanity so that everyone could hear you. Now you want to grade his coaching abilities yet weren’t you a St Mary’s coach? I believe you were. You talk about guards not being able to make an entry pass into the post, that would have been you teaching the guards the fundamentals at St Mary’s. Thinking you didn’t do a good job. Also, if I remember correctly. I remember hearing about how you was always complaining about Coach Schwemley and how he did things but I never did hear anything about how your girls were coached. Are you telling me they were coached better? I really doubt that. One last thing and then I’m done. Would you like it if someone went on social media and bashed you nonstop about how you did things? Or even gave you grades? I doubt it, and before you go on the rant that you could deal with it. Please Don’t! Have you ever thought about how his family feels reading the things you are saying especially when Schwemley coached your boys and even gave your oldest a chance when most coaches wouldn’t have. I guess what I’m saying is that a man in your position and even your spouse. You really shouldn’t go to social media to do your bashing because you’re really starting to look like a bigger jack hole than you are. 😉 I’m not “bashing” anyone. If you read carefully and if you had been on this new site longer you would know I give him credit where I think he deserves it. His passion for the game is obvious. A B on X’s and O’s is bashing him? As a varsity coach you have to know people are going to critique you it’s a very public position not unlike principal, local business owner, small town doctor. Go to many websites and you can read very public evaluations of my care. Have you ever had a discussion with someone about a coach or a play call at Legends? Was it always about how great they did? This forum is no different than that conversation. I’d say it is healthier since it is not behind anyone’s back. I’m not hiding. It’s obvious you know who I am. I’ve had similar discussions directly with him in my own back yard. Regarding my son ask yourself why a kid who played basketball since the third grade and who got moved up at every level in high school would choose not to go out his junior year. For the record he was asked to come out that year not the other way around. Regarding my coaching skills I was not responsible for more than a couple of the kids still playing in high school. I never coached above the sixth grade. All I ever taught were fundamentals. I could give you names of very successful players I spent some time with, but I’ll stand by the small amount of work I did. It was admittedly small and not very significant in the big picture.
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Post by fanofthegame on May 23, 2019 11:53:46 GMT -5
You don’t know anything that went down between Coach Will and me that night. I won’t go into the details because it’s not anyone else’s business. There were some frustrations on the sidelines of Shelby football at that time. We talked it out like men afterward and have a great relationship.
I’m guessing you don’t spend a lot of time in the volleyball or girls basketball sections of this forum. Reasonable guess because nobody does. If there were vigorous discussions in those forums I would have participated there, too. I like talking sports.
Again, having a opinion about someone isn’t bashing.
If you don’t want judged then hide (maybe on a sports forum anonymously posting). I personally am a “Man In The Arena” by Roosevelt willing to put myself out there guy. If you aren’t familiar with it then Google it.
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Post by dude on May 23, 2019 12:43:23 GMT -5
Regarding my son ask yourself why a kid who played basketball since the third grade and who got moved up at every level in high school would choose not to go out his junior year. This is not as uncommon as you may think. Specially for kids that physically develop quicker in life. If you think about it, many districts will have 20+ kids playing in elementary sports and by graduation that number can be as small as 2.
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Post by fanofthegame on May 23, 2019 12:59:30 GMT -5
Regarding my son ask yourself why a kid who played basketball since the third grade and who got moved up at every level in high school would choose not to go out his junior year. This is not as uncommon as you may think. Specially for kids that physically develop quicker in life. If you think about it, many districts will have 20+ kids playing in elementary sports and by graduation that number can be as small as 2. Agreed, but kids who get moved up to JV as a freshman, dress varsity as a sophomore, and are likely to start as a junior? I know the reason and it wasn’t just one. One thing I’d like to add. The downside to an Internet forum is tone. I’m not angry. I don’t have any animosity toward this coach. I’m not attacking his character. I wish him the best. He taught my boys life lessons. Like me he isn’t perfect. We’re talking sports. Nobody would react to the same conversation about the Cavs coach.
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Post by dude on May 23, 2019 13:22:09 GMT -5
This is not as uncommon as you may think. Specially for kids that physically develop quicker in life. If you think about it, many districts will have 20+ kids playing in elementary sports and by graduation that number can be as small as 2. Agreed, but kids who get moved up to JV as a freshman, dress varsity as a sophomore, and are likely to start as a junior? I know the reason and it wasn’t just one. One thing I’d like to add. The downside to an Internet forum is tone. I’m not angry. I don’t have any animosity toward this coach. I’m not attacking his character. I wish him the best. He taught my boys life lessons. Like me he isn’t perfect. We’re talking sports. Nobody would react to the same conversation about the Cavs coach. Yes, it happens. I can't imagine that one of the reasons was hearing how good the coach is when he went home at night. If I remember correctly there was a large number of sophomores moved up that season, not just your son. This could indicate a shortage in a class ahead. Then the following year the team had multiple freshman and sophomores playing high minutes. My thoughts are the same. This is talking sports. No anger or frustration from me.
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Post by fanofthegame on May 23, 2019 15:43:48 GMT -5
Agreed, but kids who get moved up to JV as a freshman, dress varsity as a sophomore, and are likely to start as a junior? I know the reason and it wasn’t just one. One thing I’d like to add. The downside to an Internet forum is tone. I’m not angry. I don’t have any animosity toward this coach. I’m not attacking his character. I wish him the best. He taught my boys life lessons. Like me he isn’t perfect. We’re talking sports. Nobody would react to the same conversation about the Cavs coach. Yes, it happens. I can't imagine that one of the reasons was hearing how good the coach is when he went home at night. If I remember correctly there was a large number of sophomores moved up that season, not just your son. This could indicate a shortage in a class ahead. Then the following year the team had multiple freshman and sophomores playing high minutes. My thoughts are the same. This is talking sports. No anger or frustration from me. That had zero influence. Even if I did bad mouth coaches I didn’t have an opinion at that point. I support our coaches. If you could go back to the old site you’d see where I defended McCoy against the crazy lady from Virginia. I went to a school board meeting in defense of Solis. It’s not because he can’t handle criticism. Ask the guys on the football team his sophomore year. He started offense that year, but was a dumb/inexperienced 15 yo who made a lot of mistakes. Solis had a punishment called “run to Skiles.” It’s an old sign at the practice field. He set a record that year for the number of times he had to “run to Skiles.”
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Post by dude on May 23, 2019 17:37:31 GMT -5
Yes, it happens. I can't imagine that one of the reasons was hearing how good the coach is when he went home at night. If I remember correctly there was a large number of sophomores moved up that season, not just your son. This could indicate a shortage in a class ahead. Then the following year the team had multiple freshman and sophomores playing high minutes. That had zero influence. Even if I did bad mouth coaches I didn’t have an opinion at that point. I support our coaches. If you could go back to the old site you’d see where I defended McCoy against the crazy lady from Virginia. I went to a school board meeting in defense of Solis. It’s not because he can’t handle criticism. Ask the guys on the football team his sophomore year. He started offense that year, but was a dumb/inexperienced 15 yo who made a lot of mistakes. Solis had a punishment called “run to Skiles.” It’s an old sign at the practice field. He set a record that year for the number of times he had to “run to Skiles.” Now I have to call BULL! There is little doubt in my mind that a man as vocal as your are did not speak his mind at home in front of your younger son. IF the earlier post is accurate, you also went down to the football sideline during a game and had words with the coach. Every parent influences their kids at home with their words. Even asking questions about games and practices in a manner of "what did the coach say?" can influence kids good or bad. Do not try and say your words at home had "zero influence" on your son's actions. You are smart enough not to tell that lie. So you feel in basketball the kids were over worked but the football coach, Solis, made kids run for punishment and it was counted for records?
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Post by fanofthegame on May 23, 2019 18:28:54 GMT -5
That had zero influence. Even if I did bad mouth coaches I didn’t have an opinion at that point. I support our coaches. If you could go back to the old site you’d see where I defended McCoy against the crazy lady from Virginia. I went to a school board meeting in defense of Solis. It’s not because he can’t handle criticism. Ask the guys on the football team his sophomore year. He started offense that year, but was a dumb/inexperienced 15 yo who made a lot of mistakes. Solis had a punishment called “run to Skiles.” It’s an old sign at the practice field. He set a record that year for the number of times he had to “run to Skiles.” Now I have to call BULL! There is little doubt in my mind that a man as vocal as your are did not speak his mind at home in front of your younger son. IF the earlier post is accurate, you also went down to the football sideline during a game and had words with the coach. Every parent influences their kids at home with their words. Even asking questions about games and practices in a manner of "what did the coach say?" can influence kids good or bad. Do not try and say your words at home had "zero influence" on your son's actions. You are smart enough not to tell that lie. So you feel in basketball the kids were over worked but the football coach, Solis, made kids run for punishment and it was counted for records? I’m likely done after this post. The conversation has become pretty circular. My comment was that I had very little opinion by the time my older son chose not to play (end of his sophomore year). As a result I had no influence on him making that choice. If I had ANY influence on him it would have been to continue to play. This is a fact. Between the two of us one was there. I will admit I had formulated more on an opinion by the time my younger was at the same age as a result of two more years of observation and a lot more insider information having had two players and four years. I’m on the sideline of every football game. I would never approach a coach during a game with anything other than assistance with an injured player. I’ll give some vague details out of respect for Coach Will and the fact that we talked it over, shook hands, and have forgotten it. That’s what guys do. He said something to me I felt inappropriate since I was on the sideline in the capacity of team doc. I responded in an equally inappropriate way. I left the sideline because it seemed like the right thing at the time (and it was). We discussed it afterward and mutually apologized. Yes, fair or not, a basketball coach has to train differently than a football coach. The football coach has fresh athletes. The basketball coach has half a team most of the time that is coming off football or cross country. In addition they are different sports. Making a kid run back and forth 20-30 yards in football is different. That kid might then stand there for 5 minutes before he gets back in for another play. Run a play, huddle, run a play, huddle. Basketball is more continuous. Not the same.
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Post by dude on May 23, 2019 18:57:23 GMT -5
I thought you were speaking about Lucas's playing years. I always saw AJ as a big kid who was on the basketball team but never a basketball player. The fact that he was a small part of the varsity basketball team speaks more to why he wanted to step away. I agree that opinions can grow over years of observation, but would your opinions be that same had your boys stuck to football only and never played basketball? If not then your opinions are a personal agenda.
I've seen you on the sidelines but do you often walk up into the stands talking profanity about the coach. If that is a normal practice then oh well. "I responded in an equally inappropriate way." On the sideline you are not equal, he is the superior. The only authority you have is to assess a player. Sounds like you may struggle with receiving the same support you give other coaches. As a military man I know you understand rank.
Yes they are not the same. Basketball takes much better conditioning as play can last up to 2-3 minutes at a time. Most football plays don't last longer than 12 seconds.
Enjoyed the talk.
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j1120
All Block
Posts: 19
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Post by j1120 on Jul 14, 2019 18:34:23 GMT -5
Has anyone been hired yet ?
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Post by dude on Jul 14, 2019 21:11:49 GMT -5
Hired a young coach from Ridgedale I believe.
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Post by edchambers on Jul 15, 2019 11:58:39 GMT -5
Nathan Loney
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