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2017 draft
Apr 28, 2017 12:44:32 GMT -5
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 28, 2017 12:44:32 GMT -5
Seattle and Dallas would disagree. Seattle and Dallas would agree. To think the Browns are anywhere near where they were when they took a QB is as mind boggling as trading up for Trubustsky. Neither Dallas nor Seattle got their QBs in the 1st Round. Certainly didn't mortgage their future
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Post by DrTorch on Apr 28, 2017 12:52:57 GMT -5
i'm glad the Browns didn't take a QB, but there were some good players imho sitting there at 12...Hooker in particular would have looked really nice after taking a DE who should be able to pressure the opponent's QB
i wouldn't have taken any of the 4 QBs that were being talked about either, but i would have for sure taken Malik Hooker or Jonathan Allen at 12
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2017 draft
Apr 28, 2017 13:05:15 GMT -5
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 28, 2017 13:05:15 GMT -5
i'm glad the Browns didn't take a QB, but there were some good players imho sitting there at 12...Hooker in particular would have looked really nice after taking a DE who should be able to pressure the opponent's QB i wouldn't have taken any of the 4 QBs that were being talked about either, but i would have for sure taken Malik Hooker or Jonathan Allen at 12 Can't disagree with that. I was happy with the trade down to grab the 1st next year, but I was expecting, and wondering if they tried, to move up from 25 to grab Hooker as he kept dropping. Allen, I'm ok with not grabbing, if only because we have Garrett, Shelton, Ogbah, and Nassib, all of whom I like. But we def could have plugged a hole with Hooker.
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Post by tigeralum01 on Apr 28, 2017 13:11:31 GMT -5
But we def could have plugged a hole with Hooker. too easy
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2017 draft
Apr 28, 2017 13:15:19 GMT -5
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 28, 2017 13:15:19 GMT -5
To be honest, Besides the obvious safety holes, I really like the way our defense is shaping up. Front 7 actually appear to be NFL Quality.
Garrett, Shelton, Ogbah, Bryant
Kirksey, Davis, Collins
If the Browns land a Darnold, Rosen next year, they are poised to make a big jump in the 2018-2019 season.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Apr 28, 2017 14:11:41 GMT -5
that was the worst draft ive ever seen Peppers is a bum. We gave up the 12th pick this year for a 1st rounder next year from a team who will make the playoffs, so a 12th for (2) 25s? So we are really rolling into the season with Kessler and Osweiler as our Qbs? We sign a Qb guru as our head coach then we don't draft a Qb for him until the 3rd year of his regime? We could have grabbed Jonathan Allen at 12 and had Garrett and Allen. Or grabbed Malik Hooker. And who the heck is Peppers going to defend in the pros? They moving him to LB? Where is he going to play? Not S?! Not Corner! just awful...and i'm not even a huge Garrett fan...but to come out of the 1st with him and Allen would have been pretty good Is there a Zac Prescott like QB in the 4th round this year. According to the ESPN "experts" there are still 60 some players left with 1st round potential
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 28, 2017 14:19:27 GMT -5
1. Is there a Zac Prescott like QB in the 4th round this year. 2.According to the ESPN "experts" there are still 60 some players left with 1st round potential 1. IMO, Mahomes was that guy.....Hell of a jump from 4th to 1st though. Prescott benefited from going to a good team with a stellar OLine, an excellent RB and a Dynamic receiver. I think if he would've went somewhere like CLE/SF/Buff, he would've played like a 4th Round pick. The situation Prescott got is what any NFL QB hopeful should dream about. 2. HA!
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Apr 28, 2017 14:19:58 GMT -5
i'm glad the Browns didn't take a QB, but there were some good players imho sitting there at 12...Hooker in particular would have looked really nice after taking a DE who should be able to pressure the opponent's QB i wouldn't have taken any of the 4 QBs that were being talked about either, but i would have for sure taken Malik Hooker or Jonathan Allen at 12 Can't disagree with that. I was happy with the trade down to grab the 1st next year, but I was expecting, and wondering if they tried, to move up from 25 to grab Hooker as he kept dropping. Allen, I'm ok with not grabbing, if only because we have Garrett, Shelton, Ogbah, and Nassib, all of whom I like. But we def could have plugged a hole with Hooker. ESPN "experts" weren't high on Hooker. Not good at man coverage, bad open field tackler, didn't "fill" quickly like a good safety. Ohio State let him roam in center field. Free Safeties don't play like that in the NFL.
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 28, 2017 14:33:44 GMT -5
Can't disagree with that. I was happy with the trade down to grab the 1st next year, but I was expecting, and wondering if they tried, to move up from 25 to grab Hooker as he kept dropping. Allen, I'm ok with not grabbing, if only because we have Garrett, Shelton, Ogbah, and Nassib, all of whom I like. But we def could have plugged a hole with Hooker. ESPN "experts" weren't high on Hooker. Not good at man coverage, bad open field tackler, didn't "fill" quickly like a good safety. Ohio State let him roam in center field. Free Safeties don't play like that in the NFL. Yeah, I caught the 'experts' after the Hooker pick, ripping him apart for his tackling issues. You do wonder though if that is why he slipped? Injury issues maybe? I mean, I don't know if I saw a mock that had him getting past the Chargers, so it is surprising that he lasted to the mid teens. With all the talk about him being the closest thing to Ed Reed, you would think someone would jump on him. ....granted Ed Reed was the #24 pick(1st FS off the board, 2nd safety[Roy Williams-8])
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 28, 2017 17:30:02 GMT -5
Wow. Barnidge cut. Didn't expect that.
Njoku is 20 years old.
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2017 draft
Apr 28, 2017 18:44:12 GMT -5
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 28, 2017 18:44:12 GMT -5
Obi Melifonwu would be a decent add if still there. Fits the mold of what the Browns might go after, athleticism
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Apr 28, 2017 19:20:59 GMT -5
They say Njoku knows nothing about blocking. Sounds like the Browns will be running less and passing more.....without a QB.
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 28, 2017 19:42:19 GMT -5
^Yeah, the Barnidge move puzzles me for a few reasons, that being one. They must have a QB that they see as viable for a gap year or two. Kessler is not as bad as people seem to make him out to be. In the big picture, it's probably good for Kesslers development that people aren't all hyped about him. The longer he can remain under the radar, the better it is for him, especially in Cleveland. "Per the game charters at Pro Football Focus, he ranked first among passers in completion percentage under pressure after accounting for dropped passes, throwaways, spiked balls, batted passes and passes where he was hit while throwing the ball (80.6 percent), fifth in overall adjusted completion percentage (78.2 percent) and sixth in passer rating under pressure (82.4)."
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 28, 2017 19:46:48 GMT -5
Well. Scratch that. Scratch all of that.
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Post by DrTorch on Apr 28, 2017 20:16:58 GMT -5
better than reaching at 12 for sure
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Post by Rambo McClain on Apr 28, 2017 20:31:58 GMT -5
Matt Wilhelm former NFL LB (which means he studied opposing QBs for a living) said a couple months back after watching film on all the top QBs in the draft that Kizer was the best QB in the draft.
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2017 draft
Apr 28, 2017 21:17:51 GMT -5
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 28, 2017 21:17:51 GMT -5
Def better than reaching at 12.
Seems a lot of people are saying he's a few years away, which, I'm not sure how it fits with this team. Of course, this is cleveland, so in all likelihood we will see him this year.
I didn't watch enough of Kizer to know if he's got the talent. I do know that he's made a few comments that had me scratching my head. If he can win games, I'll take him.
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2017 draft
Apr 28, 2017 23:38:11 GMT -5
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Post by 4 on Apr 28, 2017 23:38:11 GMT -5
I liked first 3 rounds. Got some good athletes. Williams will make the defense decent atleast. No doubt in my mind. Peppers I think will be fine. Wherever we play him.
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Post by buckeyekid on Apr 29, 2017 5:31:12 GMT -5
I told a friend yesterday that I think Peppers will end up being a fan favorite when he gets going. Like him or not, he's enthusiastic and that rubs off on the rest of the team as well. The punt return game got better and I think he'll get coached up on defense by Williams. I agree with ceo south, the defense on paper is shaping up quite nicely. Another good cb to play opposite Haden and a nickel guy and we have quality all across the board it looks like.
At least at some point during all the mock drafts I recall seeing Kizer way up higher than the 3rd round. With the O-line fixed we hope--and we get Josh Gordon back being something close to his play of a couple years ago,,all of a sudden I'm interested in watching this team again.
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Post by tommygunn on Apr 29, 2017 8:13:53 GMT -5
Browns draft is yet another snoozer. This team is forever doomed.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Apr 29, 2017 13:36:01 GMT -5
From Wikipedia
DeShone Kizer 6'4 233 Played HS at Toledo Central Catholic 3 year starter 34-6 (8-2) in playoffs 2012 led TCC to D-2 State Championship 2013 Ohio D-3 co-Offensive POY 4* recruit - 9th best dual threat QB in his class according to rivals
Played CFB at Notre Dame 2014 - redshirted 2015 - In 2nd game of year he replaced an injured Zaire, then started every game after that (211-335) 2,884 yards (21 TD, 10 int) - 134 carries, 520 yards - 10 TD, 5 fumbles 2016 (195-325) 2,705 yards (24 TD, 8 int) - 118 carries, 509 yards - 7 TD, 0 fumbles
If he plays at all this year then I think his career is over like every other Browns QB before him. He's raw which means he needs to sit and learn and not pick up any bad habits by playing too early. I'm okay with him starting Week 1 of year 2 though.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Apr 29, 2017 13:41:52 GMT -5
The 2 QB's considered the best in the NFL right now Tom Brady threw 3 passes as a rookie - that's it Aaron Rodgers threw 16 passes as a rookie - that's it
For once the Browns need to do things right and sit their rookie QB. Patience. The Owner needs to give Hue at least 5 years. Patience, lets try it for the first time since 1999. I don't want to be starting over in 2019, 2022, 2025, etc. I want to be winning Super Bowls in 2022 and 2025.
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 29, 2017 14:24:11 GMT -5
The 2 QB's considered the best in the NFL right now Tom Brady threw 3 passes as a rookie - that's it Aaron Rodgers threw 16 passes as a rookie - that's it For once the Browns need to do things right and sit their rookie QB. Patience. The Owner needs to give Hue at least 5 years. Patience, lets try it for the first time since 1999. I don't want to be starting over in 2019, 2022, 2025, etc. I want to be winning Super Bowls in 2022 and 2025. In Kizer's case, I agree with all of that. He shouldn't see the field, and after thinking more on it, I'm not sure how well that fit is here. If the Browns win 0-1 games like a lot of people say they might, you have to wonder how hot the seats will get, rightfully so or not. For me, when they took Kizer, it really called into the question the trade down from 12. I'd think that if they knew they would pick up Kizer in the 2nd, that they wouldn't have traded down from 12. I'm under the assumption they moved down to make a play at a QB next year, but did they just take themselves out of the race next year with the Kizer pick? If Kizer sits like it seems he should, and the Browns finish poorly like predicted, would they pass on a QB in what is supposed to be a good QB class when they haven't even seen Kizer in action? What if the Texans also Poop the bed and the Browns have 2 picks in the Top 10? Those are tough spots to be in, and I'd be inclined to think they'd take a QB, which on one hand, you could say 'hey, competition is good', and I'd normally agree with you, but this is Cleveland and the position is so starved that any question about who 'the guy' is is amplified by both the media and fans. That's what I mean when I say I'm not sure how the fit is here. Is Kizer the guy they're hitching the wagon to? Are they even going to be around to see him in game action without forcing him in before he's ready? Unfortunately, I think Kizer sees the field this year. I don't think the Browns are good enough to hold off Grossi and Mary K, Haslam and the fans from crying when they lose a few games in a row. Who knows, maybe Kessler makes a jump, or Osweiler remembers how to be a QB and the Browns get to 6-7 wins, and we don't worry about Kizer being thrown in to die. but based on how things normally go around here Kessler will have a concussion on about the 4th play, Osweiler will break his foot running onto the field to replace him and Kizer will come in and get his already questionable confidence, and therefore NFL career, destroyed. "It's circular. It's like a carousel. You pay the quarter, you get on the horse, it goes up and down, and AROUND. It's circular. Circle, with the music, the flow."
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Apr 29, 2017 15:47:48 GMT -5
If Kizer would be "thrown into die". Then it follows that all other Browns QBs will die and Kizer will be the last man standing and must play for that reason.
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2017 draft
Apr 29, 2017 16:33:51 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2017 16:33:51 GMT -5
The 2 QB's considered the best in the NFL right now Tom Brady threw 3 passes as a rookie - that's it Aaron Rodgers threw 16 passes as a rookie - that's it For once the Browns need to do things right and sit their rookie QB. Patience. The Owner needs to give Hue at least 5 years. Patience, lets try it for the first time since 1999. I don't want to be starting over in 2019, 2022, 2025, etc. I want to be winning Super Bowls in 2022 and 2025. Brady sat and learned under Drew Bledsoe. Rodgers sat and learned under HOFer Brett Favre. What's Kizer going to learn from sitting behind Cody Kessler?
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Post by CEOSouth on Apr 29, 2017 20:24:56 GMT -5
If Kizer would be "thrown into die". Then it follows that all other Browns QBs will die Not necessarily. I guess it depends on if you think Kessler(or Osweiler) is further along in development than Kizer? Kessler didn't do terrible last year, his high completion % and ability to get through reads at times kept his head above water. I wouldn't call his performance 'impressive'....rather, very Colt McCoyish. I think if you put Kizer on the field to start in Week 4(Kesslers 1st start last year) it could be terrible to a career altering degree. Weeden vs Eagles terrible. Manziel vs Bengals terrible. Frye vs Steelers 1st Half terrible. With all the anticipatory throws the NFL requires, confidence is huge in the development of a QB, and with some of the traits Kizer apparently possesses it could certainly spell the end before it starts. With phrases like "gets stuck on first read", "dreadful lapses in judgement", "indecisive/lacks anticipation" and "high grade arm-low grade accuracy", to me, it sounds like a recipe for disaster. The stark difference between the two QBs is amusing. It's like Kessler has none of the physical skills and all of the brain/intangibles while Kizer has all the skills and is missing the rest. When someone asked earlier what Kizer could possibly learn under Kessler, I think the good news is that Kizer can learn how to be a 'game manager' under Kessler, which is probably Kessler's best skill. QBs with Kizer's protypical size, big hands, dual threat nature and great arm strength should be Top 5 picks, but he slid to pick #52 in a draft with an apparent 'weak' QB class. You could say it's because he's a project, but so is Trubisky, so is Mahomes, and teams were tripping over themselves to get them. Yet, the guy with better size, better arm strength with a better pedigree from a better football program that ran more of a pro style offense than any of the others, fell to CLE at 52. Like I said earlier, I just think it seems to be an odd horse to hitch a wagon to.
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Post by galion on Apr 30, 2017 2:25:44 GMT -5
Problem is that Kessler and the other Browns qb's seem to have a difficult job stayinb upright and on the field. Given their utter failure to address their offensive line situation I doubt that rend is going to change. Long story short the Browns are going to end up using any qb that is unfortunate enough to be on their roster. In other news great job drafting that jackass in the 6th round who will be either released or suspended for domestic violence.
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Post by misterbreeze on Apr 30, 2017 8:27:35 GMT -5
They did address the OL in free agency...would expect to see some improvement.Still have holes to fill on the roster. It is going to take some time but at least they have a plan, a process in place, and are sticking to it so far.
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Post by DrTorch on Apr 30, 2017 9:40:43 GMT -5
i don't know enough about Kizer to have an opinion on whether or not he is a legit prospect but it is nice to have something/someone to be interested in, at the very least
that offense is going to be very very bad next year tho...with or without Kizer
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Post by buckeyekid on Apr 30, 2017 13:41:43 GMT -5
Like MisterBreze said we did address the OL,,,we signed 2 very good free agent OL guys and get our best guard back from injury. Also the FSU guy Rod Johnson we drafted was a good player and started I think 3 years for them. The defense will be improved also. I'd be shocked if we don't have significant improvement in the W-L dept.
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