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Post by sportsjock on Jun 24, 2017 21:39:05 GMT -5
^^^clueless. The price would barely go up if you doubled the workers pay. The cost of direct labor is a small part of the price of goods. Owners just like to pay workers little because whatever they save in direct labor goes into their pockets. So, you are suggesting government mandates? If a farmer is grossly underpaying his workers, the workers will find work elsewhere wouldn't you think? Government should stay out this and let supply and demand take it's course.
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Post by galion on Jun 25, 2017 2:53:29 GMT -5
^^^clueless. The price would barely go up if you doubled the workers pay. The cost of direct labor is a small part of the price of goods. Owners just like to pay workers little because whatever they save in direct labor goes into their pockets. So if the cost of labor is just a "small part of the price of goods" explain to me why most of our manufacturing jobs left the country. You have always loved to blame the union wages for that. Agriculture has always been dependent on a steady supply of cheap labor. Be it slavery, share cropping, migrant worker, of just good old fashioned large families it has always been around. Even with the cheap labor the government still has had to pay out huge subsidies to control the price of goods for generations now. This has been going on longer than food stamps have existed. Farmers are America's original wellfare program.
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Post by tommygunn on Jun 25, 2017 9:03:51 GMT -5
galion, you do not know anything do you. There already is a law in the books, passed quite a long time ago that illegals cannot get on government assistance as soon as they get here. Do your research before you spout off and sound dumb. Trump is essentially enforcing this law.
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Post by tommygunn on Jun 25, 2017 9:07:04 GMT -5
^^^clueless. The price would barely go up if you doubled the workers pay. The cost of direct labor is a small part of the price of goods. Owners just like to pay workers little because whatever they save in direct labor goes into their pockets. So, you are suggesting government mandates? If a farmer is grossly underpaying his workers, the workers will find work elsewhere wouldn't you think? Government should stay out this and let supply and demand take it's course. So government should stay out of illegal immigrants being here illegally?
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Post by sportsjock on Jun 25, 2017 12:56:15 GMT -5
So, you are suggesting government mandates? If a farmer is grossly underpaying his workers, the workers will find work elsewhere wouldn't you think? Government should stay out of this and let supply and demand take it's course. So government should stay out of illegal immigrants being here illegally? Certainly not, enforcing laws already on the books is their job.
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Post by galion on Jun 27, 2017 2:22:06 GMT -5
galion, you do not know anything do you. There already is a law in the books, passed quite a long time ago that illegals cannot get on government assistance as soon as they get here. Do your research before you spout off and sound dumb. Trump is essentially enforcing this law. I don't know anything? Farm subsidies go to the farm OWNERS not the farm workers. Good God. The fact the you can be from Willard and not know anything about farm subsidies and how they work is frightening to me given that they are such a big part of your local economy. Buurma and the other farming operations around you have been getting millions and millions of our taxpayer dollars for decades now. It's called corporate wellfare.
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Post by tommygunn on Jun 27, 2017 6:31:47 GMT -5
Dude, you missed my point. Carry on.
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Post by clb6110 on Jun 27, 2017 12:21:44 GMT -5
Galion I can tell with 100% certainty that the Buurmas have not received one red cent of govt monies. There have been many mis guided statements on this thread but that was the biggest doozy yet.
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Post by Whittaker on Jun 27, 2017 12:57:43 GMT -5
USDA subsidy information for Buurma Farms Inc ============================================= Buurma Farms Inc 1995-2014 USDA county office from which subsidies were paid: Huron County, Ohio, Most recent address on file in USDA county office: Willard, OH 44890 Subsidy Payments: $31,752 Buurma Farms Inc 1995-2014 USDA county office from which subsidies were paid: Livingston County, Michigan Most recent address on file in USDA county office: Willard, OH 44890 Subsidy Payments: $42,048 farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A03070043&summlevel=address
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Post by ronswanson on Jun 27, 2017 14:27:44 GMT -5
^^ Whether they received them or not(which looks like they did), you divide that out over 19 years and it doesn't come out to much. For the Ohio portion that comes out to around $1600 per year, seems pretty small to me.
I haven't read through all the recent posts but are people mad that there are farms receiving subsidies?
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Post by Whittaker on Jun 27, 2017 16:05:29 GMT -5
^^^^^^^ Agree its a small amount. I just posted it to hopefully end the dispute between a couple other posters.
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Post by sportsjock on Jun 27, 2017 18:03:44 GMT -5
^^^^^^^ Agree its a small amount. I just posted it to hopefully end the dispute between a couple other posters. Nice work Whit.
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Post by Whittaker on Jun 27, 2017 20:04:46 GMT -5
I'm a giver.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Jun 28, 2017 6:09:17 GMT -5
galion, since you think you are so smart then answer this question.
What percentage of expenditure are field workers in the overall cost for a farm to produce the crop and get it to the customer?
1% 3% 5% 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90% 99%
Pick one. I'm guessing you are a CNN watcher so 99% will be your answer. Very Fake News
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Post by tommygunn on Jun 28, 2017 6:24:48 GMT -5
^Very small % is the answer.
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Post by fanofthegame on Jun 28, 2017 7:21:59 GMT -5
galion, since you think you are so smart then answer this question. What percentage of expenditure are field workers in the overall cost for a farm to produce the crop and get it to the customer? 1% 3% 5% 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90% 99% Pick one. I'm guessing you are a CNN watcher so 99% will be your answer. Very Fake News I can't quote you a number, but in most businesses labor is one of their biggest expenses. In mine it's #1 (even more than malpractice insurance).
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Post by sportsjock on Jun 28, 2017 15:10:51 GMT -5
galion, since you think you are so smart then answer this question. What percentage of expenditure are field workers in the overall cost for a farm to produce the crop and get it to the customer? 1% 3% 5% 10% 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90% 99% Pick one. I'm guessing you are a CNN watcher so 99% will be your answer. Very Fake News I can't quote you a number, but in most businesses labor is one of their biggest expenses. In mine it's #1 (even more than malpractice insurance). You are spot on.....
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Post by baldref on Jun 29, 2017 13:52:29 GMT -5
Salaries and benefits are the biggest cost in any business by far. Unless there is a major, major expenditure for new equipment each and every year, labor and their associated costs (pensions, health, workers comp etc) easily total over 75% of any business related operational costs. That being said, however, who or what can operate without some labor help? Thus, it is a double-edged sword in many cases. One can only try to find good, quality workers who do their jobs in the most efficient manner possible. That is why in many successful business operations, workers are also some of the shareholders or stockholders in the business. Kinda puts the onus on their back. If the business operation fails, you fail as well. Unfortunately, many in the labor force today don't understand that principle. Unions have corrected some wrongs in the past, but also unfortunately, many union leaders don't understand that either and they actually bargain and ***** their way out of jobs for themselves and their constituents.
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Post by DrTorch on Jun 29, 2017 14:35:38 GMT -5
food cannot be equated to products like lumber or steel
it is best food be kept as cheap as possible, however you have to lie/cheat/swindle to do this...people don't get too upset when they can't afford a brand new 2"x 4" but when they can't buy food things get gorilla ugly fast
i think that is an aspect that gets lost...everyone benefits from cheap food man, everyone...if you need to smuggle in some illegals to do it and throw them a party then do it...do you fools know how expensive lettuce was this spring?
EVERYONE
EATS
FOOD
keep it cheap
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jun 29, 2017 16:24:04 GMT -5
IMO, the price of lettuce today is well worth that of a healthy salad VS unhealthy fast food. The price of a loaf of bread is 4 times the price 25 years ago. The price of a gallon of milk is more than double what it was 25 years ago. In that time I've never seen an angry gorilla in the grocery store. Speaking of fast food, in 1957 you paid $.37 for a Whopper, today $3.99. The price of lettuce or a Whopper will NEVER go down, only up up up. A reality.
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Post by ScarletFever on Jun 29, 2017 16:58:46 GMT -5
i think that is an aspect that gets lost...everyone benefits from cheap food man, everyone...if you need to smuggle in some illegals to do it and throw them a party then do it...do you fools know how expensive lettuce was this spring? Best quote of the entire thread. I have 0 idea why anyone is even complaining or griping about this issue, well I have some idea and it's got nothing to do with legal vs. illegal.
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Post by tommygunn on Jun 29, 2017 19:16:10 GMT -5
For me its legal vs illegal. Lets just say when I ran my own business, if I decided to skip inspections, not pay taxes, or whatever other regulation thrown my way, do you think I would get the same sympathy from the general public. The answer would be a resounding no. I would have been told that I was a cheat, and deserved everything I got. Come here legally, that is it, its literally that simple. Hiring illegals or coming here illegally is no different than me just opting to pass on any state inspection because I just don't feel like it.
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Post by ronswanson on Jun 29, 2017 20:35:01 GMT -5
Tommy, I don't think it's quite that simple. You ignoring to do something at a business you own is not the same as someone just coming here trying to better their lives and have a job. I still don't understand why people care so much if someone comes here and works a job that no one else is doing anyway. And don't give me the "they don't pay taxes, they get free things" comeback. Also this really hasn't been this big of an issue until it was talked about during the presidential debates, before that it was just something you might talk about every once in a while but not to this degree. I'm willing to bet if this was never brought up last fall, we wouldn't even have this thread here.
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Post by ronswanson on Jun 29, 2017 20:54:29 GMT -5
I just think we don't know what it's really like to be in their shoes, we can throw stones all we want but will never know what it's like to be born in a country where making $10 a day is considered good. I'm assuming most of us on here have good jobs and live pretty decently and don't have to worry too much about taking care of our families. If you were born in Mexico wouldn't you want to go somewhere to make your life better? And it's easy for us to just sit back and say "get the proper paperwork and become a citizen" until you actually have to do it yourself in a foreign country. We can't say for sure we'd all do it since we'll never be in that situation. I'm thankful everyday that I have been able to live a pretty decent life without these type of worries.
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Post by fanofthegame on Jun 30, 2017 6:37:42 GMT -5
Tommy, I don't think it's quite that simple. You ignoring to do something at a business you own is not the same as someone just coming here trying to better their lives and have a job. I still don't understand why people care so much if someone comes here and works a job that no one else is doing anyway. And don't give me the "they don't pay taxes, they get free things" comeback. Also this really hasn't been this big of an issue until it was talked about during the presidential debates, before that it was just something you might talk about every once in a while but not to this degree. I'm willing to bet if this was never brought up last fall, we wouldn't even have this thread here. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." -Obi Wan Kenobi
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Post by sportsjock on Jun 30, 2017 6:49:53 GMT -5
Tommy, I don't think it's quite that simple. You ignoring to do something at a business you own is not the same as someone just coming here trying to better their lives and have a job. I still don't understand why people care so much if someone comes here and works a job that no one else is doing anyway. And don't give me the "they don't pay taxes, they get free things" comeback. Also this really hasn't been this big of an issue until it was talked about during the presidential debates, before that it was just something you might talk about every once in a while but not to this degree. I'm willing to bet if this was never brought up last fall, we wouldn't even have this thread here. Illegal immigration has been a big issue for decades, it didn't suddenly appear at the presidential debates. I don't buy into the rationale that one can pick and choose which laws to abide by. If you have a problem with a particular law, you don't purposely disobey it, you work with others to change or amend it, that's how a democracy works. We are a nation of laws. By blatantly invading our country illegally, they are disrespecting and violating our system of government, no excuses or arguments can change that fact. The wall and other border security enhancements, should have been completed 30 years ago. thus we wouldn't be having this urgent discussion today.
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Post by ronswanson on Jun 30, 2017 7:57:24 GMT -5
It may have been an issue for decades but still not to this magnitude. It has never gotten the type of attention it is getting now, and that is due to the debates/election last fall. Never has there been this many articles in not only local papers but also national newspapers specifically about migrant workers. I'm not saying to pick and choose laws but it just doesn't bother me that they are coming here to do these jobs and never will.
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Post by sportsjock on Jun 30, 2017 11:07:48 GMT -5
It may have been an issue for decades but still not to this magnitude. It has never gotten the type of attention it is getting now, and that is due to the debates/election last fall. Never has there been this many articles in not only local papers but also national newspapers specifically about migrant workers. I'm not saying to pick and choose laws but it just doesn't bother me that they are coming here to do these jobs and never will. Few people have any problem with migrant laborers. Those that come across our borders as seasonal farm workers have green cards, usually coming as a family unit. Most community service organizations, churches and outreach programs offer them a wealth of support, as they should. That's not at issue, Illegal aliens is, particularly the criminal element. Some have been deported many, many times. I think the law should be toughened and severe penalties imposed. If you have been criminally identified and deported, you step back into this country illegally, there are no 2nd chances....you go to prison.
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Post by ronswanson on Jun 30, 2017 12:20:59 GMT -5
I get that, but it still hasn't been that big of an issue at this magnitude until recently. The whole "legal/illegal" has been to taken to a whole different level since the elections last fall.
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Post by sportsjock on Jun 30, 2017 14:01:52 GMT -5
I get that, but it still hasn't been that big of an issue at this magnitude until recently. The whole "legal/illegal" has been to taken to a whole different level since the elections last fall. Obviously, you don't live in a border state (like me). Those people have had their fill of daily invaders decades ago.
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