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Post by DrTorch on Sept 6, 2017 9:56:23 GMT -5
compare and contrast
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 10, 2017 8:50:51 GMT -5
JT Barrett IV vs Oklahoma JT was 4-4 on balls thrown behind the line of scrimmage JT was 10-14 on balls thrown 0-9 yards downfield, with 1 INT JT was 4-7 on balls thrown 10-19 yards downfield JT was 0-4 on balls thrown 20-29 yards downfield JT was 1-2 on balls thrown 30-39 yards downfield JT was 0-1 on balls thrown 40+ yards downfield JT threw 3 balls away JT was 14-18 on balls thrown 9 yards or less, with 1 INT JT was 5-15 on balls thrown 10 yards or more JT's 19 completions went 133 yards downfield, 49 yards of YAC JT's avg completion was 7 yards downfield For those watching you would have seen the prevent defense Oklahoma installed once they went up 3 scores. So here are JT's stats pre and post the 31-13 deficet. For 3 1/4 quarters the game was close and here are JT's stats JT was 9-12 on balls thrown 9 yards or less with 1 INT JT was 1-6 on balls thrown 10+ yards downfield JT completed those 10 balls 55 yards downfield with 29 yards of YAC - 84 Total For the last little portion of the 4th quarter when OU took a 31-13 lead and started playing prevent D, here are JT's stats JT was 5-6 on balls thrown 9 yards or less JT was 4-9 on balls thrown 10+ yards downfield JT completed those 9 balls 78 yards downfield with 20 yards of YAC - 98 Total Through 2 games JT is 30-35 on balls thrown 9 yards or less, with 1 INT JT is 9-30 on balls thrown 10+ yards downfield JT is 2-18 on balls thrown 15+ yards downfield (he was 1-17 before the final pass of the game vs OU and their prevent D when he completed a 16 yard out) What did we learn, JTIV holds the ball to long and doesn't get the ball out to the open receivers, he waits too long when he does throw allowing the defender to catch up and once a team drops into prevent defense then JT expands his 5 yard throws to 10 yard throws.
Most OSU fans have known for awhile that JTIV can't throw downfield, hopefully Urban uses this loss to do the right thing and bench JTIV and put in Haskins (who Stanley Jackson says is the best QB on the team). Urban, you now have your excuse to bench JTIV, do it for the team.
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Post by DrTorch on Sept 10, 2017 10:30:02 GMT -5
we went thru this with Troy Smith when Justin Zwick was the starter and was pretty awful/mediocre...the fanbase was clamoring for Troy Smith, and all we kept hearing was Troy is not the passer Zwick is, Troy doesn't grasp the offense like Zwick does, and after a few bad game Tressel finally made the change and the rest is history
we've had 4 years to get it fixed...we had all off-season to get it fixed...we hired an NFL QB Guru to get it fixed...we had a faster-paced Offensive Coordinator installed to get it fixed...we recruited 4 and 5 star WRs to get it fixed...how gosh darn awful are Burrows and Haskins that they can't even get a SERIES in the face of THIS?
are you kidding me? we can't get Burrows a SNAP? we can't get Haskins a SNAP? what is the single-mindedness attachment to Barrett? this is supposed to be Ohio State, not JT Barrett State? what gives?
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Post by 1percenter on Sept 10, 2017 10:51:48 GMT -5
JT is 2-18 on balls thrown 15+ yards downfield (he was 1-17 before the final pass of the game vs OU and their prevent D when he completed a 16 yard out) OUCH, so the only passes he's completed downfield this season are the amazing grab ruled incomplete but overturned by replay and a time running out scrap play during a blowout. I find it hard to believe OSU doesn't have a better QB on the team than JT Barrett. This reminds me of when Craig Krenzel waited behind Steve Bellisari (sp), OSU kept losing and losing and losing, then Bellisari got suspended for a DUI and Krenzel got the start and beat Michigan, the very next year Krenzel led the Buckeyes to a 14-0 season and a National Championship. The infatuation with the older Bellisari even though he stunk held OSU back, they waited too long to move on to Krenzel a natural winner. And as Torch pointed out the same mistake was made with Zwick except Zwick didn't get a 3 year leash of poor play like JT Barrett has gotten. Why has Barrett been given such a long leash? Mike Weber already lost his starting position and Weber has played pretty well, why does JT Barrett get to play bad game after bad game and keep his starting position?
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Post by areafan1 on Sept 10, 2017 18:03:46 GMT -5
JT first problem is his receivers suck. They can't get open and when they do, two long TD's goes right thru their arms. They talk about there speed but they can't make cuts and get open.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 18:49:03 GMT -5
JT first problem is his receivers suck. They can't get open and when they do, two long TD's goes right thru their arms. They talk about there speed but they can't make cuts and get open. So what you are saying is Urban has recruited an entire roster of receivers that suck. And that is JT's problem and the reason he had a QBR of 21.1 for this game.
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Post by galion on Sept 11, 2017 3:41:28 GMT -5
The problem isn't that the receivers can't get open. The problem is the JT doesn't trust what he sees and by the time that he hesitates and double pumps the dbs have a chance to recover and make a play. It's so obvious a blind man can see it. I've seen high school qbs that don't even go D1 make reads and get the ball out quicker than JT.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 11, 2017 7:20:35 GMT -5
we've had 4 years to get it fixed...we had all off-season to get it fixed...we hired an NFL QB Guru to get it fixed...we had a faster-paced Offensive Coordinator installed to get it fixed...we recruited 4 and 5 star WRs to get it fixed...how gosh darn awful are Burrows and Haskins that they can't even get a SERIES in the face of THIS? are you kidding me? we can't get Burrows a SNAP? we can't get Haskins a SNAP? what is the single-mindedness attachment to Barrett? this is supposed to be Ohio State, not JT Barrett State? what gives? +1, and I love the line "this is supposed to be Ohio State, not JT Barrett State?" Any other player on the roster would have been benched long ago
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 11, 2017 7:35:38 GMT -5
The problem isn't that the receivers can't get open. The problem is the JT doesn't trust what he sees and by the time that he hesitates and double pumps the dbs have a chance to recover and make a play. It's so obvious a blind man can see it. I've seen high school qbs that don't even go D1 make reads and get the ball out quicker than JT. +1. 100% agree. Open on a slant is being a step in front of the defender and the QB throwing a accurate pass to keep the receiver in stride. Open on a out or a comeback is the QB throwing the ball before the receiver makes his break. On slants JTIV considers open receivers as covered. On outs & comebacks JTIV considers those open receivers as covered. JTIV does not throw to open receivers he only throws to uncovered receivers. On a slant JTIV only throws to a receiver if the defender is a good 5 yards away. On a out of comeback JTIV waits until after the receiver makes his break and wants a good 5 yards separation before he even considers releasing the ball. This is why he pats the ball all day and only throws to uncovered receivers -2 to 2 yards downfield. On the rare occasion a receiver he's looking at becomes uncovered 10 yards downfield and he'll throw to them. Meanwhile every good QB in college throws to not just uncovered receivers but open receivers, they anticipate their break and throw a nice out, they throw a nice accurate pass on a slant for a 7 yard gain with a defender a step behind.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 7:35:43 GMT -5
we've had 4 years to get it fixed...we had all off-season to get it fixed...we hired an NFL QB Guru to get it fixed...we had a faster-paced Offensive Coordinator installed to get it fixed...we recruited 4 and 5 star WRs to get it fixed...how gosh darn awful are Burrows and Haskins that they can't even get a SERIES in the face of THIS? are you kidding me? we can't get Burrows a SNAP? we can't get Haskins a SNAP? what is the single-mindedness attachment to Barrett? this is supposed to be Ohio State, not JT Barrett State? what gives? +1, and I love the line "this is supposed to be Ohio State, not JT Barrett State?" Any other player on the roster would have been benched long ago Disagree. Did Prince suck last year? Yes. Did they bench him? Nope
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 11, 2017 7:45:03 GMT -5
JTIV has progressively gotten worse. Here's his college QB rating through the years. Most other QB's roll with 1 & 2 star teammates. JTIV gets to play with 4 & 5 star teammates against teams with inferior talent. He has no excuse to rank this poorly
2014 - 169.8 - 2nd 2015 - 139.2 - 46th 2016 - 135.3 - 61st 2017 - 125.4 - 82nd
JTIV played great as a freshman, but that was a long time ago. He's been really bad ever since. No more excuses for him.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 11, 2017 8:03:19 GMT -5
compare JTIV with some former OSU QB's 2006 - 161.9 - 7th - Troy Smith's senior year 2010 - 157.9 - 10th - Terrell Pryor's junior year, then he went pro 2013 - 158.1 - 14th - Braxton Miller's junior year, then he got hurt and didn't get to play QB again
JTIV has progressively gotten worse, it's not going to get better. It must be the QB guru coach they just brought in that's the fault for JT looking bad for the 3rd year in a row It must be the new Offensive genius they just brought in that's the fault for JT looking bad for the 3rd year in a row It must be the new batch of 4 & 5 star receivers that he's throwing to that's the fault for JT looking bad for the 3rd year in a row It must be the 4 & 5 star Olinemen that's the fault for JT looking bad for the 3rd year in a row It must be lackluster RB's that's the fault for JT looking bad for the 3rd year in a row
Meanwhile about 125 of the other 129 teams in the nation have less talent than what JTIV gets to play with, yet 81 QB's out there are currently putting up better numbers than JTIV.
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Post by Uplifting Ursula on Sept 11, 2017 8:38:25 GMT -5
I am super confident that Barrett will look better this Saturday, I expect him to rebound well after a tough loss. I guarantee you that JT Barrett is going to buckle down and practice really hard, he's also going to study hard in the classroom and then this Saturday he will play better than he did versus Oklahoma and Ohio State will win. I think Urban Meyer is confident JT Barrett has the skill set needed to win this Saturday too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 8:54:01 GMT -5
Bold prediction to be confident against Army.
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Post by DrTorch on Sept 11, 2017 10:02:16 GMT -5
we've had (2) HUGE games in 2017 and we've been outcoached in both of them
in the last (2) games vs CLEMSON and OKLAHOMA we've scored a total of (1) touchdown
we haven't even been COMPETITIVE! someone needs to get up Urban's ACE!
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 12, 2017 6:37:48 GMT -5
JT Barrett IV's last 5 games (10-22) 86 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT - 24 carries - OSU won 17-16 vs a 3-9 team (15-32) 124 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT - 30 carries - OSU won 30-27 in double overtime (19-33) 127 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT - 11 carries for negative 2 yards - OSU lost 31-0 (20-35) 304 yards (227 of it YAC), 3 TD, 0 INT - 13 carries - OSU won 49-21 (19-35) 183 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT - 18 carries - OSU lost 31-16
Those that read the other thread know I have critiqued JTIV as a noodle arm, BALL HOG. I correctly pointed out that when JTIV goes full BALL HOG, OSU is in deep trouble offensively.
2017 vs OU - JTIV carried it 18 times, next most 13 - OSU lost 2016 vs Clem - JTIV carried it 11 times, next most 6 - OSU lost 2016 vs Mich - JTIV carried it 30 times, next most 11 - OSU squeaked out a double ot win 2016 vs MSU - JTIV carried it 24 times, next most 14 - OSU won 17-16 vs a 3-9 Sparty team 2015 vs MSU - JTIV carried it 15 times, next most 12 - OSU lost to a BACKUP QB from Sparty
JTIV decided to ball hog it from Zeke in 2015, costing OSU the game.
Anybody see what happened when OSU got down to the 6 yard line vs OU? JTIV run, JTIV run, JTIV over throws receiver, FG. JTIV was a ball hog and wouldn't give it to Dobbins and instead of a TD OSU had to settle for a FG.
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Post by DrTorch on Sept 12, 2017 11:26:15 GMT -5
WE KEEP GETTING 4 AND 5 STAR RECRUITS BUT EVERYONE SUCKS BUT BARRETT? Gimme a break. We've seen this team without Barrett. It was DOMINANT.
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Post by DrTorch on Sept 12, 2017 15:06:12 GMT -5
EVERYBODY HAS BEEN FIRED EXCEPT JT AND URBAN!
WTF! FIX IT? IT SEEMED FIXED WHEN JT WAS ON THE BENCH!
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 17, 2017 8:35:30 GMT -5
JT threw 2 balls away JT was 13-13 on balls thrown behind the line of scrimmage JT was 9-11 on balls thrown 0-9 yards downfield JT was 2-3 on balls thrown 10-19 yards downfield, 1 TD (threw it 11 yards downfield for a 9 yard TD pass) JT was 1-2 on balls thrown 20-29 yards downfield, 1 TD JT was 0-2 on balls thrown 40-49 yards downfield
JT was 22-24 on balls thrown 9 yards or less JT was 3-7 on balls thrown 10 yards or more, with 2 TDs JT's 25 completions went 63 yards downfield with 207 YAC for 270 overall JT's avg completion was 2.5 yards downfield
Dwayne "Stanley Jackson knows I'm better than JT" Haskins DH didn't throw it behind the line of scrimmage DH was 3-3 on balls thrown 0-9 yards downfield DH was 1-1 on balls thrown 10-19 yards downfield DH didn't have any other throws DH's 4 completions went 35 yards downfield with 11 YAC DH's avg completion was 8.8 yards downfield
What I took away from the game. Same thing I thought of JT Barrett IV before the season. He's okay in 9 games a year where OSU completely outmatches the opponent talent wise, throwing 2 yard passes works vs Army, Navy, Indiana, Rutgers, etc, but when a big game comes along and the talent is even on both sides those 2 yard throws do not cut it. JT completed 24 passes vs Army and the avg distance downfield where those balls were caught was a measly 2.5 yards. Then Dwayne "Arm like Cardale" Haskins came in and had a rocket arm. Slinging rockets around the field, not noodle rainbows like JT throws.
What sums up what we have with JT Barrett IV 1st and 10 from the 15 yard line. OSU had been running it down Army's throat. Campbell just had a 59 yard TD run called back and all OSU needed to do was had it off to the RB's a couple of times and a TD would result. 1st down, JT throws the ball away. Surprise, surprise JT couldn't find any uncovered receivers, remember he only throws to guys with no one around them 2nd down, JT throws a wild pass to a wide open guy at the line of scrimmage, incomplete 3rd down, pocket breaks down quick, JT scrambles 30 yards to the sideline and surprise, surprise never found an uncovered receiver and ran out of bounds for a 1 yard loss (sack) Field Goal
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Post by Birdman on Sept 17, 2017 23:54:54 GMT -5
Only problem here.... JT gives the Buckeyes the best opportunity to win. Haskins is obviously not good enough to be in there as a starter and well Burrows he is hurt.
I've been reading everyone's comments, general concensious is we all love the bucks and wish we had Freshman JT who would threw to his receivers in stride and made big time passes.
Coaches put the guy in for a reason, we all can't sit here and say different no matter what statistics we can put out there.
We are all butt hurt about the QB, but the other positions are not living up to all the hype either. Those WR's don't impress me, secondary, and other then are D-line is called the best in the nation, I don't see a lot of impressive all play, especially when the big stage is set
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 8:05:32 GMT -5
It is not necessarily obvious Haskins is not good enough. To be fair you have a senior and a freshman. In many athletic programs a freshman would have to far outplay a senior to take his job. So in theory Haskins could be equally able in practice but being a Sr player is what gives JT the spot. To some of us the problem is seeing maybe the first 4 year starting QB at Ohio State not dominate his area of the game.
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Post by tommygunn on Sept 18, 2017 10:58:29 GMT -5
Only problem here.... JT gives the Buckeyes the best opportunity to win. Haskins is obviously not good enough to be in there as a starter and well Burrows he is hurt. I've been reading everyone's comments, general concensious is we all love the bucks and wish we had Freshman JT who would threw to his receivers in stride and made big time passes. Coaches put the guy in for a reason, we all can't sit here and say different no matter what statistics we can put out there. We are all butt hurt about the QB, but the other positions are not living up to all the hype either. Those WR's don't impress me, secondary, and other then are D-line is called the best in the nation, I don't see a lot of impressive all play, especially when the big stage is set Totally disagree. WR's can't shine a turd thrown their way. JT throws turds.
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Post by Birdman on Sept 18, 2017 16:14:35 GMT -5
The WR's when they catch the ball haven't been impressive. It's not like every ball JT had thrown is total garbage. I am on the same boat with JT's passing, something's gotta give.
If Haskins was that good he would get more chances then he surrently is.
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Post by DrTorch on Sept 18, 2017 16:21:06 GMT -5
That is what they said about Troy Smith when he was behind Zwick.
This is lazy coaching. I like my spread offenses to be vertical, not horizontal. The definition of insanity...
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 18, 2017 16:48:56 GMT -5
That is what they said about Troy Smith when he was behind Zwick. This is lazy coaching. I like my spread offenses to be vertical, not horizontal. The definition of insanity... His horizontal play is actually worse than the numbers I gave above. Against Army I gave you the stat that JT was 13-13 on throws behind the line of scrimmage (he completed 25 for the game, so over half were thrown behind the LOS) Out of JT's 25 completions 18 of them were thrown 5 yards or less downfield. Haskins comes in and goes 4 for 4, throwing it 10, 9, 7 and 9 yards down field at the time of completion. Compare that ^^^ to JT Barrett's day, here's the distance relative to the line of scrimmage of his 25 completions 0, -1, 8, -2, -1, 0, 6, 4, -3, 5, -5, -3, -2, 8, -1, 18, 25 (TD), -4, -1, -1, -5, 8, -3, 9, 11 (TD)
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Post by Birdman on Sept 18, 2017 21:29:55 GMT -5
We were also looking at a future Heisman Trophy winner and IMO the best all around QB the bucks ever had. Guys like Troy Smith don't come along very often.
Zwick was highly regarded coming out of HS, from his stats and the school he played for, turned out to be a loaf of bread. I don't think the current situation is similar to that scenario. You knew Zwick was garbage.
JT use to throw downfield, somewhere he lost his confidence to do so.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 19, 2017 10:24:39 GMT -5
JT threw downfield in 2014, it's now 2017. The kid wouldn't even challenge Army deep. 13 completions behind the line of scrimmage (ie over half his completions vs measly Army were behind the LOS). JT is now a lost cause, it's time to move on.
UNLV is up next, let's get Haskins the start and get him ready for PSU because that's a loss if JT Barrett IV is still the starting QB.
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Post by DrTorch on Sept 19, 2017 10:55:39 GMT -5
We were also looking at a future Heisman Trophy winner and IMO the best all around QB the bucks ever had. Guys like Troy Smith don't come along very often. Zwick was highly regarded coming out of HS, from his stats and the school he played for, turned out to be a loaf of bread. I don't think the current situation is similar to that scenario. You knew Zwick was garbage. JT use to throw downfield, somewhere he lost his confidence to do so. Zwick was named the starter by a National Title winning head coach, just like Barrett was. No one knew what Troy was, we just knew he could scramble and Zwick was a statue. Now we know Haskins can throw and Barrett can't. It's a nearly identical situation. Zwick was invited to the Elite 11 camp after his senior year in HS. He was far from garbage.
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Post by Birdman on Sept 19, 2017 17:13:52 GMT -5
One mans trash, is another mans treausre.
Haskins made a few throws, that doesn't prove anything against Army late in the 4th quarter. I want to see him against the cream of the crop, then I'll be sold.
I beg to differ people knew about Troy, he had some issues that held him back too let's not forget. All in all, JT is the best option we have.
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Post by DrTorch on Sept 19, 2017 18:41:20 GMT -5
i don't believe that for a second
and we didn't know about Troy, we just knew we had seen enough of Zwick
just like we don't know about Haskins, we just know we have seen enough of Barrett...if you were in Columbus the year Troy took over you would know we were all over benching Zwick weeks before a move was made...simply because we had seen enough of Justin...talk radio was inundated with callers
Barrett is a Senior? What breakthrough do you think he is going to make in the next 9 games he couldn't do in the previous 35?
And how can we do any worse? in 8 quarters vs Clemson and Oklahoma JT led us to 1 td. I do think Haskins could do better. I mean good gravy, he can only do 1 td worse eh? Maybe he is worse than Barrett right now, but he can improve. Barrett can't. Barrett is regressing, getting worse.
Not to mention that Barrett was best as a Frosh, what if we are wasting Haskins best year right now?
They said Cardale would suck. And Barrett was so much better than him, surely we were lost without JT Barrett. Car-fail, they were calling him. Til he went out and Car-kicked the crap out of Bama.
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