sbc95
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Post by sbc95 on Oct 9, 2017 21:02:21 GMT -5
Look... The private schools are here again ...Nothing can be done and we might as well face it like all public schools have in the past... Just not right
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Post by greenman on Oct 10, 2017 8:38:31 GMT -5
Here we go again. Another year has passed into playoff season, so out come the excuses and complaints. Many of these private schools undergo the same testing as their public counterparts, not because they have to, but because they choose to do so. In general, they outperform their public counterparts academically as well. Are you as bothered by that as you are by their successes on the fields, pitches, and courts?  If I weren't so generous about this whole thing, I'd ascribe it to the rich vein of anti-Catholicism still lurking under America's national skin. After all, when people whine about the private schools during playoff time, it's not a secret what private schools are the ones finding success year after year. |
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sbc95
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Post by sbc95 on Oct 10, 2017 12:43:35 GMT -5
To you sir... Why are the so successful year in year out?? Maybe they eat more wheaties?? Eat spinach ?? 5 years from now I wonder how many will go to their class reunion and talk about the good times they had growing up together since pre school... I bet that won't happen!! I say let the Private Schools play in their own playoff system and I bet they would get tired of doing so....Toledo CC have players that came in from different counties / cities and states ... Why didn't kids just go to a closer private school...Oh wait .. because they have better GPA at TCC and the parents want that for their kids..lol...Give me a break... !!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 14:36:31 GMT -5
To you sir... Why are the so successful year in year out?? Maybe they eat more wheaties?? Eat spinach ?? 5 years from now I wonder how many will go to their class reunion and talk about the good times they had growing up together since pre school... I bet that won't happen!! I say let the Private Schools play in their own playoff system and I bet they would get tired of doing so....Toledo CC have players that came in from different counties / cities and states ... Why didn't kids just go to a closer private school...Oh wait .. because they have better GPA at TCC and the parents want that for their kids..lol...Give me a break... !! They reason why they are good is because of the coaching, which then translates to better players. Why are all the good athletes going to TCC now instead of St John's or St Francis? Because their head is really really good |
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Post by greenman on Oct 10, 2017 16:49:27 GMT -5
Good Lord, is this what keeps you up at night? I went to a public school, D4 at the time. Not a single member of my football team was someone with whom I had gone to preschool. I was born and raised in one town, too. I still don't do any of that crap - I've barely spoken to any of my class in the 12 years I've been out. Kinda pathetic that's what worries you, really. You're worse than Al Bundy, if that's the case.
Do you not think they have great times to talk about with the 4 years they're together (or more, since there ARE these things called "feeder schools" for those schools)? Do YOU go to your HS reunions to talk about your preschool days?
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Post by greenman on Oct 10, 2017 17:01:17 GMT -5
To you sir... Why are the so successful year in year out?? Maybe they eat more wheaties?? Eat spinach ?? 5 years from now I wonder how many will go to their class reunion and talk about the good times they had growing up together since pre school... I bet that won't happen!! I say let the Private Schools play in their own playoff system and I bet they would get tired of doing so....Toledo CC have players that came in from different counties / cities and states ... Why didn't kids just go to a closer private school...Oh wait .. because they have better GPA at TCC and the parents want that for their kids..lol...Give me a break... !! They reason why they are good is because of the coaching, which then translates to better players. Why are all the good athletes going to TCC now instead of St John's or St Francis? Because their head is really really good Tuition and fees, according to each's current website: Toledo St. John's: approx. $13.2K/yr " " St. Francis: approx. $11.2K/yr TCC: approx. $9.75K/yr. St. John's and St. Francis are both run by specific religious orders (the Jesuits and the Oblates of St. Francis de Sales, respectively), while TCC is a parochial city school run by the Toledo Diocese, which plays some part in the discrepancies. |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 10, 2017 19:55:48 GMT -5
To you sir... Why are the so successful year in year out?? Maybe they eat more wheaties?? Eat spinach ?? 5 years from now I wonder how many will go to their class reunion and talk about the good times they had growing up together since pre school... I bet that won't happen!! I say let the Private Schools play in their own playoff system and I bet they would get tired of doing so....Toledo CC have players that came in from different counties / cities and states ... Why didn't kids just go to a closer private school...Oh wait .. because they have better GPA at TCC and the parents want that for their kids..lol...Give me a break... !! Hasn't there been a lot of movement of student athletes between some SBC schools? |
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Post by greenman on Oct 10, 2017 21:10:51 GMT -5
Thanks for reminding me, WF, but yeah, doesn't unfettered Open Enrollment basically allow that everywhere in Ohio that it's practiced? (Hint: yeah, it does.)
For the first part of that "question," I respond with a question of my own: are you paying the student's tuition? No? Then that's what school choice is all about. Second, as for the "GPA" claim, I expect you to cite instances of that happening, enough to make the case that it is indeed a large part of why MANY parents from far away send their students to Central Catholic. We've all got time here. If that's your reasoning, too, why don't parents just send their kids to the local public schools? Maybe they feel (and in some cases, know) that the public schools won't challenge their child academically, physically, and - most importantly - spiritually.
Green is not your color, sbc95.
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sbc95
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Post by sbc95 on Oct 11, 2017 1:43:24 GMT -5
Green is not my color and you are right... I can't afford to send my boys to a private school that's for sure..But I'm sure they will be fine going to this small town public school then off to college ..Ok you all win on this subject and I guess public schools should go out and hire better Head coaches so we can compete for the state titles almost every year...You have me convinced that Private schools don't recruit and don't pay tuition for the ones who can't afford it because that just don't happen .... But someday I would like to see a new system in the works for the playoffs but what it is and how it could be done who knows..Hail to the privates ...Ps Green sorry you do not have friends that you grew up with playing football from the sandlots to high school and for 5 year reunions they are fun and some really enjoy them!!
... You must have made a impact on your hometown and class...
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Post by greenman on Oct 11, 2017 2:25:21 GMT -5
No one implied private schools don't recruit, but being private, they're allowed to do so. That's part of not being part of the taxpayer-subsidized system that means it's nearly impossible for a public school system to become so insolvent that it closes. Also, every website I've visited for private schools offers many avenues for financial aid, be it need-based or scholarships (including athletic ones, as they come right out and say). but please, go ahead and keep believing that it's some dastardly, underhanded system that keeps the publics down. Right.
No one ever demanded you say "All hail the private schools," either. Let's not forget who started this whole thread with envious whining, with implications and opinions based in self-admitted ignorance. You could have started a playoff thread with literally anything else, but chose to advertise your shortcomings. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
As for a "new system," you admit you've no idea how it would work, but you still want to see it happen. Not only are you envious, but you're about as useful to your spoken cause as tits on a boar. Do you honestly think that if public ADs and administrators would truly back, statewide, a separated public/private playoff, that it wouldn't happen? As government institutions, you don't believe that the OHSAA and the state gov't. would listen to them if they truly raised Hell about it?
What does the AD at your kids' school have to say about? Has he or she publicly voiced this view?
If not, whether he or she feels the way you do or not, your kids' AD is smart to keep it quiet. Public school admins know the score when it comes to test scores; Ohio privates in general perform at the same level as Ohio publics or better. In fact, only the wealthy suburbs and the most effective schools can compete with any private schools and most of the parochial schools. The public schools coming together in grievance against the athletic aspect of the private schools would, to many people, be a further sign of the weakness of Ohio's public schools. Athletics are a kid-magnet for schools public and private. Admins at Ohio publics know that, and know that asking to be separated from the privates in that way would be asking to be left behind.
By your own admission, privates dominate the playoffs (this is true in recent years in football - it doesn't hold across the board if you actually did your homework, but ok). If the public schools demand a separate playoff, and get their way, who looks like the whining, underachieving stepchild? The public schools, of course.
I don't have anything against public schools - I went to one K-12. I work at them, and love my job. I do have a problem when someone whines about how unfair everything is, on behalf of a system that can coerce unearned tax dollars and mandatory attendance out of people based on their zip code, against a system that has to sell themselves part and parcel to every prospective student, and that only get windfalls in the form of appreciative alums who make it big. What cowardice.
Also, I laughed when I noticed that last jab about me "having such an impact" on the people with whom I went to school. Do you think it bothers me? Sorry, sbc, some of us had, and still have, much broader horizons.
Envious, ignorant, and clannish is no way to go through life.
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Post by gibby23 on Oct 11, 2017 7:00:54 GMT -5
Well said greenman, I agree 100%.
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Post by dolittle on Oct 11, 2017 9:58:01 GMT -5
Central Catholic has 235 boys. With comp "balance" their number is like 455. Div 3 cutoff is like 360. I think thats the biggest elephant in the room. Put them where they should be - D2. Period.
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sbc95
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Post by sbc95 on Oct 11, 2017 11:07:53 GMT -5
Green you are right ...whining no... It just don't seem right seeing the same schools in the state championship games almost every year.. But like you said it must be coaching .. And yes I guess I am ignorant when it comes to this Private vs Public school football but I'm sure I'm not alone on that subject..and when I said Hail to the private schools....it is what it is they will be in the finals just like most of the past years and as you say the public ADs have never come forward on this subject... but I'm sure they have and it still remains the same...And yes I did start this subject and you definitely filled me in and definitely did not see it the way you explained it..
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Post by greenman on Oct 11, 2017 19:47:45 GMT -5
Green you are right ...whining no... It just don't seem right seeing the same schools in the state championship games almost every year.. But like you said it must be coaching .. And yes I guess I am ignorant when it comes to this Private vs Public school football but I'm sure I'm not alone on that subject..and when I said Hail to the private schools....it is what it is they will be in the finals just like most of the past years and as you say the public ADs have never come forward on this subject... but I'm sure they have and it still remains the same...And yes I did start this subject and you definitely filled me in and definitely did not see it the way you explained it.. Relatively few public ADs have come forward, if any. I've heard of none. They're foolish to do so, for the reasons I listed, and won't do so en masse for the same. Now that open enrollment is no longer limited to adjacent districts but anywhere in the state, the whole "recruiting" thing people accuse the privates of doing is out the window. I've had the opportunity to work in both private and public in this day and age. The difference in discipline is night and day, and that's what it comes down to; the culture at home dictates the culture at school, which in turn dictates the culture on the field or court. Honestly, every year some yo-ho wants to fight this battle, but comes armed with a butterknife. It's exhausting. |
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Post by greenman on Oct 11, 2017 19:48:23 GMT -5
Central Catholic has 235 boys. With comp "balance" their number is like 455. Div 3 cutoff is like 360. I think thats the biggest elephant in the room. Put them where they should be - D2. Period. No argument here. Fair is fair. |
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Post by galion on Oct 13, 2017 0:28:50 GMT -5
No one implied private schools don't recruit, but being private, they're allowed to do so. That's part of not being part of the taxpayer-subsidized system that means it's nearly impossible for a public school system to become so insolvent that it closes. Also, every website I've visited for private schools offers many avenues for financial aid, be it need-based or scholarships (including athletic ones, as they come right out and say). but please, go ahead and keep believing that it's some dastardly, underhanded system that keeps the publics down. Right. No one ever demanded you say "All hail the private schools," either. Let's not forget who started this whole thread with envious whining, with implications and opinions based in self-admitted ignorance. You could have started a playoff thread with literally anything else, but chose to advertise your shortcomings. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. As for a "new system," you admit you've no idea how it would work, but you still want to see it happen. Not only are you envious, but you're about as useful to your spoken cause as tits on a boar. Do you honestly think that if public ADs and administrators would truly back, statewide, a separated public/private playoff, that it wouldn't happen? As government institutions, you don't believe that the OHSAA and the state gov't. would listen to them if they truly raised Hell about it? What does the AD at your kids' school have to say about? Has he or she publicly voiced this view? If not, whether he or she feels the way you do or not, your kids' AD is smart to keep it quiet. Public school admins know the score when it comes to test scores; Ohio privates in general perform at the same level as Ohio publics or better. In fact, only the wealthy suburbs and the most effective schools can compete with any private schools and most of the parochial schools. The public schools coming together in grievance against the athletic aspect of the private schools would, to many people, be a further sign of the weakness of Ohio's public schools. Athletics are a kid-magnet for schools public and private. Admins at Ohio publics know that, and know that asking to be separated from the privates in that way would be asking to be left behind. By your own admission, privates dominate the playoffs (this is true in recent years in football - it doesn't hold across the board if you actually did your homework, but ok). If the public schools demand a separate playoff, and get their way, who looks like the whining, underachieving stepchild? The public schools, of course. I don't have anything against public schools - I went to one K-12. I work at them, and love my job. I do have a problem when someone whines about how unfair everything is, on behalf of a system that can coerce unearned tax dollars and mandatory attendance out of people based on their zip code, against a system that has to sell themselves part and parcel to every prospective student, and that only get windfalls in the form of appreciative alums who make it big. What cowardice. Also, I laughed when I noticed that last jab about me "having such an impact" on the people with whom I went to school. Do you think it bothers me? Sorry, sbc, some of us had, and still have, much broader horizons. Envious, ignorant, and clannish is no way to go through life. I hate having this debate every year. I don't even know where to start. Actually the first sentence in your post is the perfect counter towards your argument. Private schools are allowed to recruit and public schools are not. I mean fair is fair. If everyone is going to participate in the OHSAA system then everyone should follow the same set of rules. I was under the impression that was the whole purpose for the OHSAA in the first place. Is asking for a level playing field really that unreasonable? If I suggested that a private school should get 10 points for a touchdown that would be considered lunacy. But for a school to be able to recruit/draw students from a population base that is 3x,4x,5x, or more that the public schools that they are going to compete against is somehow just and fair. Then, all of the sudden you bring that up it's excuse making or cowardice. I don't have a problem with public schools and private schools competing in the post season, but I do believe that the private schools should be placed in a division that reflects the actual population base that they're drawing from. If that ever happens, then I guess we'll see just how much better their coaching and training techniques truly are. Let's go on to the whole test score point. If you get to pick and choose what students walk into your building and you can't outperform your local school district then you would have to be even more incompetent than what you are claiming the public systems are. After all the public schools are required to take in everyone within their district. It's unfortunate that most people want to avoid talking about this in their arguments. I would say that if you feel that your child is not being "challenged" enough at a public school then probably you aren't taking full advantage of all of the opportunities available to them there. That's the great part about today's parents. It needs to be easy. Just pop out the kid and let me go back to my career. If we can both look up from our cell phones long enough during dinner maybe I'll ask you about your day(if they even eat together). I've never seen paying for your public school system as coercion. I thought that in this country we had decided that everyone had the right to an education, not just those who could afford it. Attendance is hardly mandatory, thus the reason we're even having this debate. You can open enroll, you can go to private school, you can use online digital academies, you can even home school if you so desire. |
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Post by galion on Oct 13, 2017 3:37:00 GMT -5
I'm sorry but one more thing, you stated "go ahead and keep believing that it's some dastardly, underhanded system that keeps the publics down."<Yes I get that you don't believe this> Private schools are not here to keep the public systems down, but what they are designed to do is to keep the haves away from the have nots. But they will make certain exceptions if you have a skillset that will get get them publicity on the athletic fields because like it or not many will equate athletic achievement with academic achievement. It's the same reason we have an unnecessary number of bowl games or an expanded 68 team basketball tourny. It's free publicity, and the participants are perceived as winners.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 5:34:12 GMT -5
How interesting could it be to have private education but the Athletics were played in the district you lived. In other words, if private schools did not have sports would there even be some of the private schools?
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Post by greenman on Oct 13, 2017 11:30:19 GMT -5
No one implied private schools don't recruit, but being private, they're allowed to do so. That's part of not being part of the taxpayer-subsidized system that means it's nearly impossible for a public school system to become so insolvent that it closes. Also, every website I've visited for private schools offers many avenues for financial aid, be it need-based or scholarships (including athletic ones, as they come right out and say). but please, go ahead and keep believing that it's some dastardly, underhanded system that keeps the publics down. Right. No one ever demanded you say "All hail the private schools," either. Let's not forget who started this whole thread with envious whining, with implications and opinions based in self-admitted ignorance. You could have started a playoff thread with literally anything else, but chose to advertise your shortcomings. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. As for a "new system," you admit you've no idea how it would work, but you still want to see it happen. Not only are you envious, but you're about as useful to your spoken cause as tits on a boar. Do you honestly think that if public ADs and administrators would truly back, statewide, a separated public/private playoff, that it wouldn't happen? As government institutions, you don't believe that the OHSAA and the state gov't. would listen to them if they truly raised Hell about it? What does the AD at your kids' school have to say about? Has he or she publicly voiced this view? If not, whether he or she feels the way you do or not, your kids' AD is smart to keep it quiet. Public school admins know the score when it comes to test scores; Ohio privates in general perform at the same level as Ohio publics or better. In fact, only the wealthy suburbs and the most effective schools can compete with any private schools and most of the parochial schools. The public schools coming together in grievance against the athletic aspect of the private schools would, to many people, be a further sign of the weakness of Ohio's public schools. Athletics are a kid-magnet for schools public and private. Admins at Ohio publics know that, and know that asking to be separated from the privates in that way would be asking to be left behind. By your own admission, privates dominate the playoffs (this is true in recent years in football - it doesn't hold across the board if you actually did your homework, but ok). If the public schools demand a separate playoff, and get their way, who looks like the whining, underachieving stepchild? The public schools, of course. I don't have anything against public schools - I went to one K-12. I work at them, and love my job. I do have a problem when someone whines about how unfair everything is, on behalf of a system that can coerce unearned tax dollars and mandatory attendance out of people based on their zip code, against a system that has to sell themselves part and parcel to every prospective student, and that only get windfalls in the form of appreciative alums who make it big. What cowardice. Also, I laughed when I noticed that last jab about me "having such an impact" on the people with whom I went to school. Do you think it bothers me? Sorry, sbc, some of us had, and still have, much broader horizons. Envious, ignorant, and clannish is no way to go through life. I hate having this debate every year. I don't even know where to start. Actually the first sentence in your post is the perfect counter towards your argument. Private schools are allowed to recruit and public schools are not. I mean fair is fair. If everyone is going to participate in the OHSAA system then everyone should follow the same set of rules. I was under the impression that was the whole purpose for the OHSAA in the first place. Is asking for a level playing field really that unreasonable? If I suggested that a private school should get 10 points for a touchdown that would be considered lunacy. But for a school to be able to recruit/draw students from a population base that is 3x,4x,5x, or more that the public schools that they are going to compete against is somehow just and fair. Then, all of the sudden you bring that up it's excuse making or cowardice. I don't have a problem with public schools and private schools competing in the post season, but I do believe that the private schools should be placed in a division that reflects the actual population base that they're drawing from. If that ever happens, then I guess we'll see just how much better their coaching and training techniques truly are. Let's go on to the whole test score point. If you get to pick and choose what students walk into your building and you can't outperform your local school district then you would have to be even more incompetent than what you are claiming the public systems are. After all the public schools are required to take in everyone within their district. It's unfortunate that most people want to avoid talking about this in their arguments. I would say that if you feel that your child is not being "challenged" enough at a public school then probably you aren't taking full advantage of all of the opportunities available to them there. That's the great part about today's parents. It needs to be easy. Just pop out the kid and let me go back to my career. If we can both look up from our cell phones long enough during dinner maybe I'll ask you about your day(if they even eat together). I've never seen paying for your public school system as coercion. I thought that in this country we had decided that everyone had the right to an education, not just those who could afford it. Attendance is hardly mandatory, thus the reason we're even having this debate. You can open enroll, you can go to private school, you can use online digital academies, you can even home school if you so desire. How does my first sentence counter my whole argument. I admitted that privates are allowed to recruit, but then I gave pretty obvious context as to why. If, within the public schools, you really believe that the culture of "haves" and "have-nots" doesn't exist (and not just among petty teenagers), you haven't spent time inside one of these HSs. Also, if you really believe that admins, pols, and some teachers don't make sure that families that may want alternative education for their children don't feel "coerced" by the public system, you similarly don't know what you're talking about. School choice proponents are for the most part vilified by these groups (with pols, at least among Dems). If you think that all public districts are created equally, then, same response. To me, the good part of that argument means that we should bring balance to all publics on Ohio as well, and fix our funding methodology. However, how that really works is that the best publics, one way or another, will dip in performance, because math is hard. Remember also that the powers that be have work to have Christ banished from the entirety of our public experience, lying about what "freedom of religion" means as read in our Constitution as well as turning otherwise uninteresting people into victims. There are parents who don't want to dismiss God from their child's everyday life and curriculum. The schools have gone to great lengths to not just separate the sacred and the secular, but to make enemies of one another - relevant to this response in that no, public schools don't offer everything a parent could desire, no matter how much care and education comes from within the home. Back to "coercion." I'll admit that, for a majority of public school families, that might be too strong a word to use, especially if they like being there. However, I know for a fact that Sandusky Catholic Schools AREN'T telling me the stars will fall from the sky every other November or May if I don't write them a check - they ask me nicely, and only do so because I have a stake in them as a lifelong Catholic that calls a Sandusky parish home. Also, public schools aren't allowed to recruit because, as you clearly state by the fact that they are required to take in everyone in the district, they don't have to. Privates have to sell themselves; that's why they're called "private," right? Probably means they have to be a little more attentive to families, or as they're now called at least at Norwalk Catholic, "stakeholders." Just because they're not the same doesn't mean they don't have balance between them. And as was mentioned here before, doesn't uninhibited open enrollment put most Ohio publics on the same step as privates? I can't speak for all districts, because ironically, they aren't uniform across the board on this, but in districts I've studied, parents and guardians must first APPLY to enroll, and can be denied admission. |
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Post by dolittle on Oct 13, 2017 11:59:07 GMT -5
Let's use Shelby as an example here. They may have a once in a lifetime type team - little argument right?
Thye picked the perfect year to be good - from the looks of it, they won't have to go thru any major parochial to win it all.
No TCC, DeSales, Hartley, no MAC school, Mooney, all of them.
Custom made to win it all!
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Post by galion on Oct 13, 2017 16:14:46 GMT -5
That Catholic guilt must be a tough burden to bear. You act as though they are trying to "recruit" any student within their borders when we both know that they are only cherrypicking the best of the best. I don't care if they recruit. I don't even care if you want to be dishonest about why the parents are actually sending their kids there. All I want is a system where those schools are placed in a division that reflects the ACTUAL population base that they are drawing from. To pretend that NSP is actually a D7 program simply because of the number of kids that they allow in their building stretches any credibility. It's funny how many "private" school numbers always fluctuate depending on the cutoff between certain divisions. I'm sure that's just a coincidence though.
As far as your public school rhetoric is concerned, the haves and the have nots choosing to distance themselves from each other in a public school environment is a far cry from a private school environment where the have nots have been virtually eliminated from the environment altogether. Private schools were around long before "freedom or religion" in public schools was ever an issue. It might have been the excuse given for many parents to send their kids there but it wasn't likely the main factor in the decision. I also agree that the funding for the schools needsa to be fixed. The Ohio Supreme court said as much years ago and the legislature ignored them. In you original post I assumed that we were talking about test scores and kids not being "challenged". I see we pivoted out of that since the argument didn't hold water. Now we are hiding behind religion, and when you start using words like "secular" and "sacred" I must assume you also mean evolution and creationism. Yeah, if you want bible stories and myths to be taught as though they are actual science then probably public education isn't your best option. I still have yet to meet one single person who feels as though they are being "coerced" to stay in the public school system. There are more options for them now than ever before. With the advent of digital academies there a re more kids being home schooled not fewer. I don't think that you realize just how easy it is to enroll in one of those. They will literally do all of the work for you to get you enrolled.
Once you establish your school as having open enrollment you must take any student who applies in the order which they apply until you run out of room in the class. I think there might be some extenuating circumstances based on criminal records but based on some of the kids Galion has taken I'm not certain what those would be.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 18:44:46 GMT -5
Let's use Shelby as an example here. They may have a once in a lifetime type team - little argument right? Thye picked the perfect year to be good - from the looks of it, they won't have to go thru any major parochial to win it all. No TCC, DeSales, Hartley, no MAC school, Mooney, all of them. Custom made to win it all! there's only one Catholic school in the MAC and that school is D7. Mooney is D4, but is in the same region as Steubenville and Perry. Agree a very good chance for Shelby. |
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Post by greenman on Oct 14, 2017 8:57:23 GMT -5
That Catholic guilt must be a tough burden to bear. You act as though they are trying to "recruit" any student within their borders when we both know that they are only cherrypicking the best of the best. I don't care if they recruit. I don't even care if you want to be dishonest about why the parents are actually sending their kids there. All I want is a system where those schools are placed in a division that reflects the ACTUAL population base that they are drawing from. To pretend that NSP is actually a D7 program simply because of the number of kids that they allow in their building stretches any credibility. It's funny how many "private" school numbers always fluctuate depending on the cutoff between certain divisions. I'm sure that's just a coincidence though. As far as your public school rhetoric is concerned, the haves and the have nots choosing to distance themselves from each other in a public school environment is a far cry from a private school environment where the have nots have been virtually eliminated from the environment altogether. Private schools were around long before "freedom or religion" in public schools was ever an issue. It might have been the excuse given for many parents to send their kids there but it wasn't likely the main factor in the decision. I also agree that the funding for the schools needsa to be fixed. The Ohio Supreme court said as much years ago and the legislature ignored them. In you original post I assumed that we were talking about test scores and kids not being "challenged". I see we pivoted out of that since the argument didn't hold water. Now we are hiding behind religion, and when you start using words like "secular" and "sacred" I must assume you also mean evolution and creationism. Yeah, if you want bible stories and myths to be taught as though they are actual science then probably public education isn't your best option. I still have yet to meet one single person who feels as though they are being "coerced" to stay in the public school system. There are more options for them now than ever before. With the advent of digital academies there a re more kids being home schooled not fewer. I don't think that you realize just how easy it is to enroll in one of those. They will literally do all of the work for you to get you enrolled. Once you establish your school as having open enrollment you must take any student who applies in the order which they apply until you run out of room in the class. I think there might be some extenuating circumstances based on criminal records but based on some of the kids Galion has taken I'm not certain what those would be. Why would NSP be pretending they are D7? Do you know something about how much space they have for more students? I've been inside that high school many times, and I don't see it. As far as "haves" and "have nots," like I said, it's not about what the kids do to each other; that's everywhere until they learn better. I'm talking about the adults in the building. I most certainly don't mean "evolution" vs. "creationism" when I talk about religion in schools - seriously, as if the Scope's trial is the whole gamut of Christian education. Young Earth Creationism isn't taught in Catholic schools, but Darwin's theory of evolution is. The name "Gregor Mendel" ring any bells? The coercion comes not from staying, but expressing displeasure at anything that goes on in your child's classroom, as well as onto the entire community. You get so displeased with public school performance that you look into other options, you're vilified. I've seen it. As for the claim that OE districts must accept all OE students until reaching capacity: incorrect. Documented behavior of the student - not even necessary for a genuine criminal record - is allowed to be taken into account, as well as the maintenance of racial balance. Also, each school district is responsible for setting its own timelines and procedures for OE. Now, why do some districts seem to take everybody, regardless of the possible negative outcomes for the community at large? $$$$$$$$$$$ |
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Post by ScarletFever on Oct 14, 2017 9:45:53 GMT -5
To pretend that NSP is actually a D7 program simply because of the number of kids that they allow in their building stretches any credibility. Norwalk is a Division I or Division II city and the same level of athlete that plays for the truckers plays for the flyers. With a cost to enrollment the general population who have kids that do not play sports are not going to spend the extra money to send their kids to St. Paul. It’s a perfect set up which has allowed them to take higher talent Norwalk kids and roll schools like Plymouth etc. for decades. Is what it is, won’t change soon. |
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Post by galion on Oct 14, 2017 17:21:31 GMT -5
Now that's rich. Even an ardent NSP supporter should be able decipher the difference between saying "We are a legit D7 program because of the number of kids that we fit in our building after cherry picking them from a D1 population base" and "We are a legit D7 program because this is the entire number of students that live in our district."
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Post by ScarletFever on Oct 14, 2017 20:53:31 GMT -5
STP just won their 37th Firelands conf game in a row. It’s a miracle straight from the Old Testament I tell ya.
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Post by greenman on Oct 14, 2017 21:09:30 GMT -5
That Catholic guilt must be a tough burden to bear. You act as though they are trying to "recruit" any student within their borders when we both know that they are only cherrypicking the best of the best. I don't care if they recruit. I don't even care if you want to be dishonest about why the parents are actually sending their kids there. All I want is a system where those schools are placed in a division that reflects the ACTUAL population base that they are drawing from. I think I may have read one part of your argument a little incorrectly, or maybe not. I'm not liking the public/private separation in playoffs, but more scrutiny by the OHSAA for purposes of competitive balance? Yeah, I agree with that. |
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Post by Buckeye2b on Oct 15, 2017 14:59:13 GMT -5
In 2016, in eight 11 man football divisions in Michigan, 6 were catholic schools and three of the state runner ups were also Catholic. No surprise.
In 2015, my own son played for a public school, who went 11-2 on the year and were state semi finalists. The two losses were to schools who ended up as Div 6 and Div 3 state champs and oddly enough BOTH teams had Saint Mary in their name. Claim to fame was the best record ever in school history, as regional champs and that they only lost to teams with Mary in their name... Go figure..
Glad there's no advantage...
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