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Post by teambeatstalent on Jan 7, 2018 23:17:28 GMT -5
NU 78 BV 57 Final Did the Seniors play more or are the underclassmen taking advantage of their opportunity?
Yes and no. BV, NU and RV have similar issues at the coaching level. BV had most of their seniors quit before th start of the season and RV has lost three seniors this week. The league is well aware of the horrific antics of the NU coach. All three programs have the same issues - they have large freshman classes coming into the high school and rarely many play through as seniors. It is a good indicator of the health program and no surprise that all three are at the bottom of the conference.
NU main issues are selfish play and no leadership to coach, teach or encourage players. One particular player consistently lacks judgement and decision making and struggles even against BV backups in the closing minutes. The entire crowd grumbles and knows that he should be playing JV instead of the point guard. Opponents have demonstrated outrage of the player’s behavior and once explained it is the coach’s kid they understand the lack of discipline or maturity being demonstrated.
NU can beat the Delaware Christians and bottom teams of the MOAC and that will be it. Likely bow out of the tournament in the first round.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 8, 2018 2:17:22 GMT -5
What have been KMAC's "great tournament trips" of late? BTW, there is no such thing as "basketball enrollment". Don't post untruths, don't make up numbers. According to the OHSAA, Northmor has 148 boys in the top 3 grades, Pleasant has 169. Highland has 221, Ontario 248. As I said "close". AGAIN, Pleasant lost by 1 point AT Northmor, most say home court is worth 5 points. We'll never know, but I'd bet a lot of money that Danville and Cardington are not going to beat Harding and BV. Even with Harding without their best player and BV missing 3 starters. With your age and claimed wisdom I would have thought you would know that All basketball divisions are set using the school's basketball enrollment numbers after the competitive balance is figured. The truth is the basketball enrollment numbers for the 4 schools are Northmor 150, Pleasant 169, Highland 229 and Ontario 271. I was talking about ACTUAL enrollment. The OHSAA list schools by their ACTUAL enrollment. You said nothing about the CB adder. You called it "basketball enrollment", there is NO SUCH THING. The CB adder does not change enrollment. The ONLY reason for the CB adder is to move a few schools up or down a Division for some parity. Which has had very little affect. The big private schools can't be moved to a higher Division, there is nothing higher than DI. ASVSM didn't change Divisions. The CB adder changed NOTHING with Ontario and Highland, they're both still in DII, The CB adder changed NOTHING with Northmor and Pleasant, they're both still in DIII. There are TWENTY-FIVE sports in which the OHSAA awards State Championships. In only EIGHT of them is the CB adder used. It is a FACT per the OHSAA's ACTUAL enrollment numbers, that Nothmor has 148 boys in the top 3 grades, Pleasant has 169, "close". FACT, Highland has 221 boys in the top 3 grades Ontario has 248, "close".
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Post by gatesofbabylon25 on Jan 8, 2018 5:25:14 GMT -5
NU 78 BV 57 Final Did the Seniors play more or are the underclassmen taking advantage of their opportunity? Yes and no. BV, NU and RV have similar issues at the coaching level. BV had most of their seniors quit before th start of the season and RV has lost three seniors this week. The league is well aware of the horrific antics of the NU coach. All three programs have the same issues - they have large freshman classes coming into the high school and rarely many play through as seniors. It is a good indicator of the health program and no surprise that all three are at the bottom of the conference. NU main issues are selfish play and no leadership to coach, teach or encourage players. One particular player consistently lacks judgement and decision making and struggles even against BV backups in the closing minutes. The entire crowd grumbles and knows that he should be playing JV instead of the point guard. Opponents have demonstrated outrage of the player’s behavior and once explained it is the coach’s kid they understand the lack of discipline or maturity being demonstrated. NU can beat the Delaware Christians and bottom teams of the MOAC and that will be it. Likely bow out of the tournament in the first round.
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Post by gatesofbabylon25 on Jan 8, 2018 5:32:30 GMT -5
BV didn't have seniors quit, they got hurt. They only had 4 coming back and 2 of them were injured. One has had knee problems and had another operation during football season and their best player was lost for season with shoulder injury. Like I've said for a couple yrs now you better beat them now because the 8th grade class is real good. Mix them with the soph and fresh class and in a couple yrs they will be fine. 8th grade only plays their starters for half of games because they are killing everyone.
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Post by ohioraised on Jan 8, 2018 8:10:41 GMT -5
I was talking about ACTUAL enrollment. The OHSAA list schools by their ACTUAL enrollment. You said nothing about the CB adder. You called it "basketball enrollment", there is NO SUCH THING. The CB adder does not change enrollment. The ONLY reason for the CB adder is to move a few schools up or down a Division for some parity. Which has had very little affect. The big private schools can't be moved to a higher Division, there is nothing higher than DI. ASVSM didn't change Divisions. The CB adder changed NOTHING with Ontario and Highland, they're both still in DII, The CB adder changed NOTHING with Northmor and Pleasant, they're both still in DIII. There are TWENTY-FIVE sports in which the OHSAA awards State Championships. In only EIGHT of them is the CB adder used. It is a FACT per the OHSAA's ACTUAL enrollment numbers, that Nothmor has 148 boys in the top 3 grades, Pleasant has 169, "close". FACT, Highland has 221 boys in the top 3 grades Ontario has 248, "close". It is what the OHSAA calls it. They use each school's Basketball Enrollment to set up divisions. Check for yourself.
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bigox
All Conference
Posts: 449
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Post by bigox on Jan 8, 2018 8:27:00 GMT -5
I think this might clear up the wiener competition. Copied off the oshaa website Division I schools will be posted here on Thursday, June 8, 2017. The list below contains the schools that competed in the 2017 tournament and their OHSAA Board of Directors approved boys basketball tournament enrollment for 2018, which is used to determine the divisional breakdowns for 2018. This is not the complete list of schools that will compete in the 2018 sectional tournament.
One person's potato another's potaatoe. 😎😎
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Post by brownsguy on Jan 8, 2018 9:57:54 GMT -5
Gates of Babylon, You are correct, BV very down this year because of injury problems and young kids playing. I’ve followed coach Gast’s team for the last few years and know that it’s a down year for them especially with the injury problem. For them to get blasted by an average NU team the other night is not typical. I’ve not seen their highly touted 8th grade class but if what you all are saying is correct they will be set for the next three years as I know they have 3 sophomores right now playing who are going to be good once they mature and get stronger.
*When a coach starts playing younger players it’s usually because the older players have gotten their chance and aren’t producing. A coach figures he can develop younger guys and if they are gonna lose by 20 with seniors who aren’t producing you might as well lose by 20 with young kids who are just as good or better than seniors. I’ve seen NU and they have 2 solid freshman who are just as good as anyone on their roster if you can’t see that then you must be related to one of the seniors who is getting their minutes cut! If a coach is good and wants to develop his program he will player the best players regardless of what grade they are in.
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Post by moacmama on Jan 8, 2018 11:39:52 GMT -5
Gates of Babylon, You are correct, BV very down this year because of injury problems and young kids playing. I’ve followed coach Gast’s team for the last few years and know that it’s a down year for them especially with the injury problem. For them to get blasted by an average NU team the other night is not typical. I’ve not seen their highly touted 8th grade class but if what you all are saying is correct they will be set for the next three years as I know they have 3 sophomores right now playing who are going to be good once they mature and get stronger. *When a coach starts playing younger players it’s usually because the older players have gotten their chance and aren’t producing. A coach figures he can develop younger guys and if they are gonna lose by 20 with seniors who aren’t producing you might as well lose by 20 with young kids who are just as good or better than seniors. I’ve seen NU and they have 2 solid freshman who are just as good as anyone on their roster if you can’t see that then you must be related to one of the seniors who is getting their minutes cut! If a coach is good and wants to develop his program he will player the best players regardless of what grade they are in. 28.420000000000073" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 28.42px; height: 5.48px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 0px; top: 0px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_92656611"></iframe><iframe width="28.420000000000073" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 28.42px; height: 5.48px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1352px; top: -234px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_34740451"></iframe> <iframe width="28.420000000000073" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 28.42px; height: 5.48px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 10px; top: -16px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_63418271"></iframe> <iframe width="28.420000000000073" height="5.480000000000018" style="position: absolute; width: 28.42px; height: 5.48px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1352px; top: -16px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_56334070"></iframe> wasn't really complaining about the freshmen. They are solid and will continue to improve and both are really great, nice kids. Teambeatstalent hit the nail on the head with the issue. Team is being built around a soph who isn't ready to play varsity and gets way more minutes than the others, and BTW I am not related to anyone on the boys team. Just an observer who has been around sports for many years.
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Post by brownsguy on Jan 8, 2018 12:52:02 GMT -5
Obviously the issue is the coaches son playing over other kids. I haven’t seen NU enough to justify his minutes but like I said earlier, if he is good enough to play then it shouldn’t matter his grade or if he’s the coaches son. They must have done something right the other night to beat BV by 20!
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 8, 2018 13:28:06 GMT -5
I think this might clear up the wiener competition. Copied off the oshaa website Division I schools will be posted here on Thursday, June 8, 2017. The list below contains the schools that competed in the 2017 tournament and their OHSAA Board of Directors approved boys basketball tournament enrollment for 2018, which is used to determine the divisional breakdowns for 2018. This is not the complete list of schools that will compete in the 2018 sectional tournament. school. As I pointed out, it is only used in 8 of the 26 sports the OHSAA holds State Championships in. AND the CB adder uses a different formula for the 8 sports.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exactly, "basketball TOURNAMENT" enrollment", a fabricated number using the CB adder. The CB adder DOES NOT change the enrollment of a school. The ONLY thing it does it determine what TOURNAMENT Division a school's team plays in. Only a few schools had their Divisions change, by use of the CB adder. The CB adder is only used in 8 of the 27 OHSAA Sport Tournaments AND a different CB adder formula is used for each of the 8 sports. The constant factor in the different CB adder formulas is the ACTUAL school enrollment number. To that ACTUAL enrollment number, the CB adder formula comes up with a figure to "add" TO the ACTUAL enrollment of a school, for those 8 sports only. Just to determine what Division that team plays in. A different number is found to add, for each of the 8 sports the CB adder is used.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 8, 2018 14:56:34 GMT -5
NU 78 BV 57 Final Did the Seniors play more or are the underclassmen taking advantage of their opportunity? Yes and no. BV, NU and RV have similar issues at the coaching level. BV had most of their seniors quit before th start of the season and RV has lost three seniors this week. The league is well aware of the horrific antics of the NU coach. All three programs have the same issues - they have large freshman classes coming into the high school and rarely many play through as seniors. It is a good indicator of the health program and no surprise that all three are at the bottom of the conference. NU main issues are selfish play and no leadership to coach, teach or encourage players. One particular player consistently lacks judgement and decision making and struggles even against BV backups in the closing minutes. The entire crowd grumbles and knows that he should be playing JV instead of the point guard. Opponents have demonstrated outrage of the player’s behavior and once explained it is the coach’s kid they understand the lack of discipline or maturity being demonstrated. NU can beat the Delaware Christians and bottom teams of the MOAC and that will be it. Likely bow out of the tournament in the first round. Moving to a new league won't solve any of these issues.
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Post by ohioraised on Jan 8, 2018 15:57:05 GMT -5
I think this might clear up the wiener competition. Copied off the oshaa website Division I schools will be posted here on Thursday, June 8, 2017. The list below contains the schools that competed in the 2017 tournament and their OHSAA Board of Directors approved boys basketball tournament enrollment for 2018, which is used to determine the divisional breakdowns for 2018. This is not the complete list of schools that will compete in the 2018 sectional tournament. One person's potato another's potaatoe. 😎😎 I stand by my original statement and backed it up with the official site that it came from. Thanks bigox, glad I am not the only fan who knows what OHSAA terms are being used. If you go to the division assignment page you can see the 8th column is each schools 2018 Basketball Enrollment number. Jan 5, 2018 23:00:21 GMT -5 ohioraised said:
10-0 Northmor's basketball enrollment number is 150 and 7-2 Pleasant's is 190. 8-2 Highland's basketball enrollment number is 229 and 5-3 Ontario's is 271. The two smaller schools of the KMAC are better than the bigger schools.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 8, 2018 16:29:16 GMT -5
Those are fabricated numbers created by the CB Adder Formula. They are meaningless other than to determine what Divisions teams play in. They changed NOTHING for Northmor, Pleasant, Highland and Ontario. They all play in the same Division WITHOUT the use of the CB adder figures being added to the ACTUAL enrollment number.
Remember, you originally called it "basketball enrollment", a misnomer. As bigox pointed out, the correct phrase that the OHSAA uses is "basketball TOURNAMENT enrollment", due to it only being used ONCE for Division realignments.......for a few.
Your "smaller" schools are not that much smaller than your "bigger" schools, using reality. Nor are they that much better. Using scores and where the games were played.
AGAIN you are using incorrect information. Pleasant's record is 7-2, Ontario's record is 6-3 and Highland's record is 9-2, you only have Northmor's record correct at 10-0. 1 out of 4 is a failing grade.
Shouldn't a like sized school with a 10-0 record beat a school with a 7-2 record by more than ONE point at home?
Thank you for highlighting you incorrect phrase for us all to see more easily.
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Post by gatesofbabylon25 on Jan 8, 2018 19:25:33 GMT -5
Gates of Babylon, You are correct, BV very down this year because of injury problems and young kids playing. I’ve followed coach Gast’s team for the last few years and know that it’s a down year for them especially with the injury problem. For them to get blasted by an average NU team the other night is not typical. I’ve not seen their highly touted 8th grade class but if what you all are saying is correct they will be set for the next three years as I know they have 3 sophomores right now playing who are going to be good once they mature and get stronger. *When a coach starts playing younger players it’s usually because the older players have gotten their chance and aren’t producing. A coach figures he can develop younger guys and if they are gonna lose by 20 with seniors who aren’t producing you might as well lose by 20 with young kids who are just as good or better than seniors. I’ve seen NU and they have 2 solid freshman who are just as good as anyone on their roster if you can’t see that then you must be related to one of the seniors who is getting their minutes cut! If a coach is good and wants to develop his program he will player the best players regardless of what grade they are in. Yes they have 3 sophmores who will be good with another yr of playing and lifting. Hubert can fill it up, Newland is long and getting better. Stokey keeps growing and he will get to point where his mind and body will go in same direction. The freshman playing JV, 3 of them, can play. Ratcliffe is 6'4 and already has good post moves. Just need to hit the weights. You say you haven't seen the 8th grade, you should go to a game when they play near where you live. Kids can play. Think they have delaware at home Saturday morning. Have 2 that I'd say could play varsity right now in Thompson and Scoweden. Gast will get it turned around, hard with numbers as low as they are right now.
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Post by ohioraised on Jan 8, 2018 23:02:07 GMT -5
On OHSAA page they list the Basketball Enrollment number for each school. That's what they call it and that is what I posted. I remember very well since I re posted it again. And the numbers are factual and the records were from my post on Jan 5 that I re posted again. Of course they changed over the weekend. The more you talk the more I see you struggle.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 9, 2018 22:33:16 GMT -5
On OHSAA page they list the Basketball Enrollment number for each school. That's what they call it and that is what I posted. I remember very well since I re posted it again. And the numbers are factual and the records were from my post on Jan 5 that I re posted again. Of course they changed over the weekend. The more you talk the more I see you struggle. You should be embarrassed, being shamefully flat out devious. At the top of the page you speak of, it says the following, to describe the process in the columns beneath. It reads: The OHSAA Board of Directors approved "boys basketball TOURNAMENT enrollments" for 2018, which is used to determine the divisional breakdowns for 2018. This number is a fictitious "enrollment" number used ONLY to determine what Divisions schools are placed in for 2018 ONLY, using the OHSAA's NEW Competitive Balance Plan. What you weasally suggests reads "boys basketball enrollment" ACTUALLY is.... 2018 BBK Enrollment Shortened due to being the header for a column that's a half inch wide. To the left is another narrow column with a header shortened as well: 2018 CB Enrollment The number in that column in actuality is the figure arrived at by the OHSAA CB formula that is to be added to the ACTUAL enrollment of schools listed in another column further to the left that says: 2018 Male Enrollment Using Columbus Beechroft, first school on the page of DII schools, as an example of what the OHSAA is doing. Beechcroft's ACTUAL boys enrollment = 311. The OHSAA CB formula figure = 42. The total 353, is the "enrollment number" used in 2018 ONLY, for the purpose to ONLY determine what Division Beachcroft will play in. Thus, 311 + 42 = 353, placing Beechcroft in Division III for 2018 ONLY. <iframe width="24.700000000000045" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 24.7px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1170px; top: -570px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_24767128"></iframe> <iframe width="24.700000000000045" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 24.7px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 10px; top: -446px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_64239330"></iframe> <iframe width="24.700000000000045" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 24.7px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1170px; top: -446px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_67126039"></iframe> The more you talk, the more obvious it becomes that you know not of what you talk. AND you are an untruthful person, never to be believed.
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Post by ohioraised on Jan 16, 2018 6:40:45 GMT -5
I'll say again, I typed the words basketball enrollment number because that is what OHSAA had posted and uses to determine divisions.
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Post by mrsteel on Jan 16, 2018 17:43:35 GMT -5
Has Clearfork/ Ontario been made up? Or is there a date?
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 16, 2018 22:58:45 GMT -5
I'll say again, I typed the words basketball enrollment number because that is what OHSAA had posted and uses to determine divisions. NOPE, look at the TOP of the page. The OHSAA calls the number you speak of: "basketball TOURNAMENT enrollment number". A fictitious number that is not a school's ACTUAL enrollment. Instead a number arrived at using the OHSAA Competitive Balance Plan's formula as an adjustment to determine what Division teams play in.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 16, 2018 23:03:12 GMT -5
Has Clearfork/ Ontario been made up? Or is there a date? Tuesday 2/20 Pleasant at Ontario Saturday 1/27 Bellevue at Ontario, Tuesday 2/6
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Post by ohioraised on Jan 17, 2018 10:08:58 GMT -5
I'll say again, I typed the words basketball enrollment number because that is what OHSAA had posted and uses to determine divisions. NOPE, look at the TOP of the page. The OHSAA calls the number you speak of: "basketball TOURNAMENT enrollment number". A fictitious number that is not a school's ACTUAL enrollment. Instead a number arrived at using the OHSAA Competitive Balance Plan's formula as an adjustment to determine what Division teams play in. Nope, I looked at the page or the information sheet to be more precise. The column to determine schools divisional size was labeled 2018 BBK Enrollment. So this is what I typed into the discussion. We all know what it is and where it comes from and it is an actual number.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 17, 2018 17:56:24 GMT -5
WRONG. Don't be a lazy.. Read ENTIRE pages not portion of pages. You will become more leaned that way. A Journalism major would tell you that. They would also tell you that THE most important part of a page of data is what is written at the TOP of the page, the header.
Wrong, incorrect, lazy, could be more knowledgeable, by reading the MOST important words on a page. The header at THE TOP of the page.
That said "basketball TOURNAMENT enrollment number" used to only create tournament divisions for this year.
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Post by ohioraised on Jan 17, 2018 20:49:57 GMT -5
I can retype what I did before and it is still just as true. Northmor's basketball enrollment number is 150 and Pleasant's is 190. Highland's basketball enrollment number is 229 and Ontario's is 271.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 17, 2018 21:07:50 GMT -5
WRONG 150, 190, 229 and 271 are those school's "basketball TOURNAMENT enrollment number". Created by a Competitive Balance Formula. Only used to determine what Divisions to place teams this year. You would know this if you were not lazy and read what was written at the most important place on any page. THE TOP.
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Post by ohioraised on Jan 19, 2018 17:31:06 GMT -5
The basketball enrollment number is the only number OHSAA uses for basketball teams. Everything is based from it.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 19, 2018 19:09:27 GMT -5
The basketball enrollment number is the only number OHSAA uses for basketball teams. Everything is based from it. WRONG AGAIN. In the case of boys basketball, the ACTUAL number of boys in the top three grades is THE starting point. THEN the OHSAA Competitive Balance Formula is used to come up with a figure to ADD to the ACTUAL enrollment number. To come up with the "basketball TOURNAMENT enrollment" number. Which is ONLY used to determine what Division Tournament, schools will play in this year
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Post by ohioraised on Jan 19, 2018 22:08:02 GMT -5
So tell us all what the actual number, as you call it, is used for.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 20, 2018 22:55:12 GMT -5
Not just me, also the OHSAA.
I've told you in EVERY post.
The ACTUAL number is the ACTUAL enrollment of boys and girls in the top 3 grades. It is derived from the number of boys and girls in the Freshman, Sophomore and Junior classes last school year in October. Before this year it was THE ONLY number used to determine what Division Tournament, teams played in. In only EIGHT of the 27 sports in which the OHSAA sponsors Championships, there is NOW a Competitive Balance Formula used to come up with an "adder", a figure added to the ACTUAL enrollment number. THAT number is then used to determine what Division Tournament, teams play in.
This has nothing to do with sports. The ACTUAL enrollment numbers MOST important function is to help determine State funding for school districts.
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Post by ohioraised on Jan 22, 2018 8:35:48 GMT -5
YOur actual number is a stat used to arrive at every teams Basketball Enrollment number which is used for everything.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 22, 2018 13:56:10 GMT -5
The most incorrect of ALL your suppositions, NOT mine, the OHSAA.
It is not a "stat". It is the ACTUAL number of boys and girls in the top 3 grades that is supplied by school districts to the OHSAA.
Every 2 years in the past the OHSAA used THAT number to determine what Division Tournament, teams play in. For ALL 27 sports that the OHSAA sponsors Tournaments. NOW, in 8 of the 27, they use the OHSAA Competitiive Balance Plan formula.
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