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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 21:00:05 GMT -5
Urban clearly did not openly agree with the suspension. Had to be a compromise of some sort
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 22, 2018 21:19:09 GMT -5
This from Bucknuts: Bucknuts reported on Wednesday afternoon that the reason the meeting is taking so long is that the Board of Trustees wants to reinstate Meyer immediately, while Ohio State president Michael Drake wants the head coach to serve a suspension, which Meyer is refusing.
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 22, 2018 23:09:25 GMT -5
Verdict:
---Zach Smith is a piece of crap ---The Powel police are corrupt ---Urban is pretty much the same guy he was at Florida ---Buckeye Nation took some body blows
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 22, 2018 23:12:41 GMT -5
Oh, And galion was right. With all of the new information coming out on this, I don't think that Urban will still be coaching this team come the beginning of the season.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Aug 22, 2018 23:35:20 GMT -5
Urban will be allowed to coach the team after 9/2, EXCEPT on the day of the Rutgers and TCU games.
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Post by dude on Aug 23, 2018 6:39:46 GMT -5
Verdict: ---Zach Smith is a piece of crap ---The Powel police are corrupt---Urban is pretty much the same guy he was at Florida ---Buckeye Nation took some body blows Why?
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 23, 2018 7:00:20 GMT -5
The fact of the matter is, the 20 member board of trustees voted for immediate reinstatement and once again president Michael Drake imposed his hard nosed will, as he did in the wrongful expulsion of band director John Waters. Coach Urban Meyer will resume his coaching duties with his honor and integrity intact, despite efforts by the media to produce damaging results. Evidence now reveals there were a few misjudgements, but no clear violations on Urban Meyers part. Consequently, I take offense at the snide remark that 'Urban is pretty much the same guy he was at Florida.' There has been an unwarranted amount of ugliness and contempt thrown at Urban Meyer throughout this entire process and Urban and his wife Shelley deserved none of it. Welcome back Coach!!!!
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 23, 2018 7:24:44 GMT -5
Verdict: ---Zach Smith is a piece of crap ---The Powel police are corrupt---Urban is pretty much the same guy he was at Florida ---Buckeye Nation took some body blows Why? -Refusing to release reports under open records laws. -Misleading the public as to whether the "arrest" box was checked in one report More info... www.dispatch.com/news/20180815/dispatch-complaint-seeks-powells-release-of-zach-smith-police-reportwww.dispatch.com/news/20180803/powell-police-refuse-to-release-report-involving-zach-smithexcerpt: [In an interview that aired Wednesday on the sports website Stadium, Mrs. Smith said her husband came to get her young son on Oct.r 25, 2015, even though it wasn’t Mr. Smith’s turn for visitation. During a fight, she alleges, Mr. Smith grabbed her by the neck and threw her against a wall. Details of physical violence were not included in a Powell police incident run sheet, however. Mrs. Smith didn’t want police at her home and waited until the next morning to file her report.Chief Vest has said his officers met with officials from the Delaware County prosecutors office, which ruled there was insufficient evidence to file felony charges.The city maintains the suspect “was investigated and believed to have committed an offense, but was not charged/arrested,” according to Megan Canavan, city spokeswoman.
Delaware County Prosecutor Carol O’Brien said she didn’t know why misdemeanor assault or other charges weren’t filed. She said she was disturbed by recent news accounts that Mrs. Smith might have been urged to drop charges at the time or to back off the allegations.“It bothers me whenever a victim can be manipulated by anyone,” said O’Brien. “Any time you have a power imbalance — and yes, it’s often a woman — it bothers me tremendously.”] (The bolded is clear evidence IMO. Police in Ohio are expected to arrest anyone believed to have committed a DV offense. Why wasn't Zach Smith arrested? I believe its because he was an OSU coach.)
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 23, 2018 7:43:06 GMT -5
The fact of the matter is, the 20 member board of trustees voted for immediate reinstatement and once again president Michael Drake imposed his hard nosed will, as he did in the wrongful expulsion of band director John Waters. Coach Urban Meyer will resume his coaching duties with his honor and integrity intact, despite efforts by the media to produce damaging results. Evidence now reveals there were a few misjudgements, but no clear violations on Urban Meyers part. Consequently, I take offense at the snide remark that 'Urban is pretty much the same guy he was at Florida.' There has been an unwarranted amount of ugliness and contempt thrown at Urban Meyer throughout this entire process and Urban and his wife Shelley deserved none of it. Welcome back Coach!!!! Urban is a great football coach. But he has a problem with overly protecting his players/coaches at the expense of people outside the program. He admits this. It really isn't even in question. It happened at Florida and continued at tOSU. Its why he was suspended. Read the report. Urban kept Zach too long and tried to justify that mistake by lying about what he knew and when he knew it. The report also mentions Urban seeking to delete text messages on his phone before the investigators got to them. It is what it is. Sorry you take offense. edit: I also think Urban & Shelly are generally fine people with compassion and integrity. But Urban has a job and that job carries the responsibility of presenting the university in a positive light, Urban's dedication to Earle Bruce's descendants notwithstanding.
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Post by dude on Aug 23, 2018 8:14:33 GMT -5
As a police officer you can make the statement that I believe Party A committed an offense against Party B. But if Party B does not want to cooperate or pursue charges then nothing is done. I believe all domestic abuse is terrible and should not be tolerated by anyone but I do admit that putting 2 hands around a neck is much different than pushing someone out of the way and causing them to fall. I have no proof that either happened in this case but neither do you. The most important statement you made was "IMO". I will ask that while you were forming that opinion did the fact that Courtney can not ask her own mother to be a character witness for her play any part in it?
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Post by cbus on Aug 23, 2018 9:22:55 GMT -5
From Page 7 of the Report:
In October 2015, Miechelle Willis, then the Deputy Title IX Coordinator for the Athletics Department, received information from the Ohio State Campus Police about the Powell Police investigation; Willis immediately notified AD Smith, who in turn notified Coach Meyer during a football practice that Zach Smith was under investigation for domestic violence and could be arrested at any time.
From page 17 and 18 of the Report:
B. Reporting obligations regarding the events of 2015-2016: 1. Under his employment contract with OSU, Urban Meyer had at all relevant times an obligation to “immediately report to the [Athletic] Director and to the Department’s Office of Compliance Services in writing if any person or entity, including without limitation, representatives of Ohio State's athletic interests, has violated or is likely to violate or may potentially have violated any [applicable] laws,” including all federal, state and local laws. (Meyer Employment Contract §4.1.d) Both should have made some report of Zach Smith’s potential violation of the domestic violence laws, which was the subject of the law enforcement investigation they came to know about in late October 2015. Such reports would have been made to the Athletic Compliance Office and, for AD Smith, the Office of University Compliance and Integrity.
How the heck does Urban get dinged for not reporting this alleged incident? The Title IX Coordinator knew about it FIRST.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Aug 23, 2018 9:26:10 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 9:46:44 GMT -5
After reading the full report Urban should of not been suspended or he should of been fired. I don’t reallt see what the purpose of the suspension is. The committee have plenty of cause to fire him if they wanted to. Simply put money talks and having Urban Meyer as your head coach is more profitable and has been profitable. Winning a national title gave him enough equity to get through this situation. He should of got rid of Smith after the second incident. Like I said before his loyalty is his worse characteristic
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 23, 2018 9:51:12 GMT -5
As a police officer I can make the statement that I believe Party A committed an offense against Party B. But if Party B does not want to cooperate or pursue charges then nothing is done. I believe all domestic abuse is terrible and should not be tolerated by anyone but I do admit that putting 2 hands around a neck is much different than pushing someone out of the way and causing them to fall. I have no proof that either happened in this case but neither do you. The most important statement you made was "IMO". I will ask that while you were forming that opinion did the fact that Courtney can not ask her own mother to be a character witness for her play any part in it? In Ohio, the law says this... "If the offender who committed the aggravated assault is the primary physical aggressor, the officer shall arrest that offender for aggravated assault". The is pertaining to domestic violence. In this situation the officer "Shall" make the arrest. It is mandatory. He cannot "do nothing" because he thinks it won't hold up in court...not if he wants to follow the law. In a domestic violence assault the victims refusal to press charges does not prevent the officer from making the arrest. Now, look at the Zach Smith situation. According to the city spokesperson, the incident was investigated, Zach was believed to have committed the offense, but no one was arrested or charged. That's red flag number One. But a reporter has a police report that has the arrest box checked! Best we can tell, the report was changed to no arrest when the scandal broke, approximately 3 years after the incident. That's red flag number two. The Powel police are now refusing to release any documents even though its 3 years after the incident. The Dispatch is pursuing the information through legal means. What really happened? I can't know for sure. Maybe Zach wasn't arrested because he's an OSU coach.......corruption. Maybe he was arrested and a few phone calls made it go away......corruption. Maybe there was not enough evidence for an arrest and a cop accidently checked the arrest box.....innocent mistake. None of those scenarios involve Courtney's mother as she was not a witness to the incident. Being a cop is a hard job, I'm sure. That doesn't mean they are immune to favoritism, political pressure, lying, error, etc. Please don't tell me how clean the cops are in Ohio. I know better. Can I prove corruption in the Powel Police Dept? No. But I can use common sense to say the most likely scenarios are that Zach wasn't arrested because of who he was, or he was arrested and the chief reversed the arrest and doctored the reports. Powel Police corruption probability in this instance = about 95%. IMO.
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 23, 2018 10:24:23 GMT -5
How the heck does Urban get dinged for not reporting this alleged incident? The Title IX Coordinator knew about it FIRST. I don't think he got dinged for this specifically. It was probably a combination of these things: -Not informing OSU of Zach's 2009 DV arrest when he brought Zach in at OSU -Misleading the public at media day, thus bringing negative attention on OSU -Deleting texts as the story unfolded, thereby appearing to hide information from OSU -The poor judgement of keeping Zach on staff amid persistent evidence of DV, substance abuse and sex-related activities(over-spending at strip clubs, office affairs, pecker-pics, sex toys being delivered to OSU offices) that could bring disrepute on the university. We don't know if Urban knew all of this but we know he knew some of it.
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 23, 2018 10:34:01 GMT -5
For the record, I think a one game suspension would've been about right for conduct limited to poor judgement on Urbans's part. But the optics of him only being suspended for the Oregon State cakewalk would've brought more bad press on OSU. So they went with 3 games and TCU.
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Post by dude on Aug 23, 2018 10:44:54 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be more sensible to say that common sense would tell you a person was not arrested because there was not enough to support an arrest.
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Post by sweathog on Aug 23, 2018 10:48:16 GMT -5
What does any of this have to do with Urban coaching the team, NOT A DAMN THING !!! Its between husband and wife. Its just another way of you stupid left (democrats) people sticking their noise in your own personal business!!!!
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Post by cbus on Aug 23, 2018 11:12:38 GMT -5
How the heck does Urban get dinged for not reporting this alleged incident? The Title IX Coordinator knew about it FIRST. I don't think he got dinged for this specifically. It was probably a combination of these things: -Not informing OSU of Zach's 2009 DV arrest when he brought Zach in at OSU- Although it would have been better for Coach Meyer to have informed OSU about Zach Smith’s 2009 arrest, there was no violation of policy, law or contractual obligation by Coach Meyer in not doing so. No one else at OSU violated any policy, rule or law in connection with the hiring of Zach Smith.-Misleading the public at media day, thus bringing negative attention on OSU- He clearly misspoke and made misstatements, but the reasons that happened are complex. Coach Meyer did not, in our view, deliberately lie. (cbus added-Only lying is an actionable offense in Urban's contract).-Deleting texts as the story unfolded, thereby appearing to hide information from OSU- We are also troubled by Coach Meyer’s interest following the publication of the negative social media report about how to change the message history setting on his phone.-The poor judgement of keeping Zach on staff amid persistent evidence of DV, substance abuse and sex-related activities(over-spending at strip clubs, office affairs, pecker-pics, sex toys being delivered to OSU offices) that could bring disrepute on the university. We don't know if Urban knew all of this but we know he knew some of it. - In the course of our review, as the factual discussion in this summary reflects, we identified a pattern of troubling behavior by Zach Smith: promiscuous and embarrassing sexual behavior, drug abuse, truancy, dishonesty, financial irresponsibility, a possible NCAA violation, and a lengthy police investigation into allegations of criminal domestic violence and cybercrimes. Repeatedly, Zach Smith’s conduct was met with reprimands and warnings by Coach Meyer, but never a written report, never an investigation and no disciplinary action until July 23, 2018.
The report excerpts are in red. So I think it's deleting texts and not firing Zach early enough. The firing of Zach is really a second guess of a coach's decisions. This is really a slippery slope. All OSU employees should be very worried if this turns into a precedent.
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Post by dude on Aug 23, 2018 11:56:43 GMT -5
I don't think he got dinged for this specifically. It was probably a combination of these things: -Not informing OSU of Zach's 2009 DV arrest when he brought Zach in at OSU -Misleading the public at media day, thus bringing negative attention on OSU -Deleting texts as the story unfolded, thereby appearing to hide information from OSU -The poor judgement of keeping Zach on staff amid persistent evidence of DV, substance abuse and sex-related activities(over-spending at strip clubs, office affairs, pecker-pics, sex toys being delivered to OSU offices) that could bring disrepute on the university. We don't know if Urban knew all of this but we know he knew some of it. - Was there an arrest in 2009? Gene Smith already stated their HR policies will change. Most employers ask if you were ever arrested or convicted of a crime. - Misleading a reporter? Start the suspension process for every coach in America. - Deleting texts on his personal phone? Nobody's business. again this is an assumption. - Poor judgement? The administration knew about the ACCUSATIONS of DV against Zach and were monitoring any police investigations. Once there was a TRO on file against Zach, he was fired. If an affair or pecker-pics are a reason for losing your job, America's unemployment rate my jump over 20%.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 23, 2018 13:02:50 GMT -5
I am not aware there was any arrests in 2009. It's sad, after being subjected to what constitutes a 'war crimes tribunal' that was as thorough and excessive in it's scope as we have witnessed in perhaps all of college football history, perhaps the exception of the Penn State debacle. The press and football fans have been relentlessly, going after Urban from every conceivable angle, that some of you wish to see the continued persecution of this poor man. Enough already, time to move on and focus on our first opponent and a great season of Buckeye football and put this clown show behind us.
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 23, 2018 13:22:24 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be more sensible to say that common sense would tell you a person was not arrested because there was not enough to support an arrest. This would be true if the police report didn't have the "arrested" boxed checked.
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 23, 2018 13:32:03 GMT -5
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Post by Birdman on Aug 23, 2018 14:46:39 GMT -5
Whittaker,
From what your saying about Powell PD, and in your “IMO” they left themselves open for a civil lawsuit.
Did she have injuries to her neck? Why did she wait until the next day to file a report. That my friend in the LEO world is a red flag. How are they able to determine that he did grab her by the next and throw her down? What reasonable suspicion did they have other than her side of the story? Did she have bruising or marks? What did Zach say about the offense.
I’m going to give you two scenarios and you tell me if you would arrest.
A. Mike and Kate are married, live together, and have 5 kids together. Both have been drinking and they begin to get into a verbal altercation over bills. There is shouting and the two both become physical with each other by grabbing at one another after one tries to leave and exit the argument. Both parties have reddening on the arms and forearm. During the exchange of grabbing mike got scratched on his face and Kate cut her arm on the corner of the counter. Neighbors overhear the argument and call police. Police come both give an accurate story as to what happened. What do the police do?
B. Mark and Liz are married, live together, and have 1 child together. They got into a verbal altercation over dinner and during the encounter Mark pushed Liz and she fell back hit her head and cut her head open. Both stop arguing and go to bed. The next day Liz calls the police and wants to file a domestic violence report. Police come over they get her side of what happened and then his. She says the truth, he lies and said he didn’t push her and that she hit her head when putting groceries away from earlier in the which she did buy groceries and he can show that. Do you arrest?
I guess my point is when it comes ton DV calls there is her side, his side, and the absolute truth. You have occurrences were the woman lies for the man after he put a thumping on her, you have woman who will pursue the matter but the man lies and there isn’t enough evidence at the time to make an arrest. You also have vindictive people who will lie about incidents to get people arrested. The dynamics of DV is ever changing and evolving, you as a LEO can’t make a rash choice and make an arrest based of very little evidence. If you do, you open yourself to civil liability for violating there 4th amendment right.
We all also don’t know how often Powell Police have had to deal with these two in the past not just for DV, but other calls for service whether they be menacing complaints, traffic stops, harassment complaints.
You can affect a arrest based of evidence, but I would tend to think there wasn’t enough there for Zach to be arrested or else he would have.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 23, 2018 19:05:49 GMT -5
Listening to eSECpn a while ago, the commentators are clearly upset Urban didn't get the axe. Their depiction of the facts were full of holes and distortions to support their slanted and biased view of things.
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Post by Birdman on Aug 23, 2018 20:29:26 GMT -5
Sportsjock,
You can say that again!!!
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 23, 2018 21:34:50 GMT -5
Whittaker, From what your saying about Powell PD, and in your “IMO” they left themselves open for a civil lawsuit. Did she have injuries to her neck? Why did she wait until the next day to file a report. That my friend in the LEO world is a red flag. How are they able to determine that he did grab her by the next and throw her down? What reasonable suspicion did they have other than her side of the story? Did she have bruising or marks? What did Zach say about the offense. I’m going to give you two scenarios and you tell me if you would arrest.A. Mike and Kate are married, live together, and have 5 kids together. Both have been drinking and they begin to get into a verbal altercation over bills. There is shouting and the two both become physical with each other by grabbing at one another after one tries to leave and exit the argument. Both parties have reddening on the arms and forearm. During the exchange of grabbing mike got scratched on his face and Kate cut her arm on the corner of the counter. Neighbors overhear the argument and call police. Police come both give an accurate story as to what happened. What do the police do? B. Mark and Liz are married, live together, and have 1 child together. They got into a verbal altercation over dinner and during the encounter Mark pushed Liz and she fell back hit her head and cut her head open. Both stop arguing and go to bed. The next day Liz calls the police and wants to file a domestic violence report. Police come over they get her side of what happened and then his. She says the truth, he lies and said he didn’t push her and that she hit her head when putting groceries away from earlier in the which she did buy groceries and he can show that. Do you arrest? I guess my point is when it comes ton DV calls there is her side, his side, and the absolute truth. You have occurrences were the woman lies for the man after he put a thumping on her, you have woman who will pursue the matter but the man lies and there isn’t enough evidence at the time to make an arrest. You also have vindictive people who will lie about incidents to get people arrested. The dynamics of DV is ever changing and evolving, you as a LEO can’t make a rash choice and make an arrest based of very little evidence. If you do, you open yourself to civil liability for violating there 4th amendment right. We all also don’t know how often Powell Police have had to deal with these two in the past not just for DV, but other calls for service whether they be menacing complaints, traffic stops, harassment complaints. You can affect a arrest based of evidence, but I would tend to think there wasn’t enough there for Zach to be arrested or else he would have. I can't answer your question about either of those scenarios because I haven't the training or expertise on what constitutes probable cause. You are suggesting that I am second-guessing the officer on the scene, when in fact it is the opposite. I actually believe the officer on the scene, or to be more accurate, I believe his report. And his report said that he arrested Zach Smith. I think it is likely that before Zach was booked, the arresting officer was overruled. Either the officer was overruled or he made a mistake filling out the report. Considering the evasive statements and behavior by the chief of police, I lean toward the former.
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Post by dude on Aug 24, 2018 7:44:04 GMT -5
So you believe the Powell Officer but the Powell Police are "corrupt"? Sounds to me you are wanting to see what you want to.
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 24, 2018 10:59:39 GMT -5
So you believe the Powell Officer but the Powell Police are "corrupt"? Sounds to me you are wanting to see what you want to. Well, this could easily be resolved by asking the officer who wrote the report, "Did you or did you not arrest Zach Smith?". Under oath. You think if I called the chief he would allow the deposition?
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Post by dude on Aug 24, 2018 11:51:04 GMT -5
There is no need. Zach Smith was not arrested. Believe that and move on. But if it makes you fell better, don't move to Powell.
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