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Post by nocommonsense on Sept 28, 2018 10:02:57 GMT -5
Has Title IX turned into a mechanism to discriminate against young men at some of our universities today ?
Just some examples Toledo U offers only 6 mens sports ( no track & field ) and offers 9 womens sports ( has track & field ) Bowling Green U 7 mens sports ( no track & field ) 10 womens sports ( has track & field ) Ohio U 6 mens sports ( no track & field ) 9 womens sports ( has track & filed ) Wright State U 6 mens sports ( no track & field ) 7 womens sports ( has track & field )
Does not seem fair to offer track for one sex and not the other. And seems real hard to justify as a worthwhile spending cut when you have the facility paid for and are still paying maintenance and up keep on it for the women.
I can understand a school being a non football school that is a large investment to get into.
Do not take this the wrong way I am not a sexist against women. I do not want to or promote the taking away of or limiting of any opportunities of our young women in any way shape or form. It just seems to me these days we skew things too far the other way.
Take a good honest look at it and see how many mens sports (not just track) across the country took the axe because of Title IX, before you give me some fluffy reasoning behind it was a good idea. And remember every girl you think got more equal rights because you cut a mans opportunity will someday have an important male in their family that gets screwed over it.
My opinion we have left too many cry babies out there ruin things.
And for those of you out there that pushed so hard for this I hope you had/will have sons and grandsons that are good at track & field and they get screwed out of scholarship opportunities because of what you’ve done.
So I ask again has Title IX turned into a mechanism to discriminate against young men at some of our universities today ?
What are your thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 10:31:48 GMT -5
Lets look at Toledo (http://www.nwherald.com/2015/03/23/behind-the-numbers-where-mac-athletic-departments-rank-in-spending-profit/a8ax3qd/):
Toledo has: Men's: Baseball, basketball, cross country, football, golf and tennis.
Women's: Basketball, cross country, golf, soccer, softball, swimming and diving, tennis, indoor track, outdoor track and volleyball.
Profit from Men's Football: Toledo: (-)$4,467,586
Profit from Men's Basketball: Toledo: (-)$1,248,995
If you added up all the loses from the men's sports (I couldn't find them) and added up all the loses from the women's sports, which do you think would be bigger? Should men and women get equal funding for sports or should men and women get equal number of sports to play? Title IX says neither.
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Post by homewrecker on Sept 28, 2018 10:46:10 GMT -5
Here an example of got screwed.
I know Aaron Alt from Shelby the kid that set the school record in shot put and was part of the state champion track team in 2003. Got a track scholarship to go to Bowling Green and the year he went there they drop the track program because of Title IX.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 12:01:24 GMT -5
Here an example of got screwed. I know Aaron Alt from Shelby the kid that set the school record in shot put and was part of the state champion track team in 2003. Got a track scholarship to go to Bowling Green and the year he went there they drop the track program because of Title IX. And maybe a deserving girl got a scholarship there in his place?
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Post by nocommonsense on Sept 28, 2018 12:12:19 GMT -5
Here are a couple Q & A’s I found on the matter
1 Q. Why does Title IX not require the same amount be spent on men and women's sports?
The Javits Amendment stated that legitimate and justifiable discrepancies for nongender related differences in sports could be taken into account (i.e., the differing costs of equipment or event management expenditures). A male football player needs more protective equipment such as pads and a helmet, and a female soccer player needs shin guards. Title IX does allow for a discrepancy in the cost of the equipment as long as both the football and soccer player received the same quality of equipment. However, a female ice hockey player must receive the same protective equipment that a male ice hockey player would receive, inasmuch as the protective equipment is the same.
2 Q. Does Title IX mandate that a decrease in opportunities for male athletes be made in order to provide an increase in opportunities for female athletes?
Title IX does not require reductions in opportunities for male student-athletes. One of the purposes is to create the same opportunity and quality of treatment for both female and male student-athletes. Eliminating men sports programs is not the intent of Title IX. The intent of Title IX is to bring treatment of the disadvantaged gender up to the level of the advantaged group.
This is what I get from the Q & A's
#1 Sounds like universities are not required to spend the same total dollars for mens as womens sports, just equally between the same sport. #2 It supposedly was never intended to cut mens sports opportunities (but that is what it has resulted in). The intention was to give equal opportunities to both sexes.
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Post by nocommonsense on Sept 28, 2018 12:52:38 GMT -5
teslaspigeons
The info you came up with for Toledo looks even worse than the 6 to 9 I had.
If you separate swimming & diving and indoor & outdoor it is 6 mens to 11 womens
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Post by sportsjock on Sept 28, 2018 12:59:51 GMT -5
The major revenue producing men's sports, makes the non-revenue producing sports possible, including all the women's sports. In the early days of Title IX, many of the men's sports were dropped in their haste to meet title IX requirements and dictates. The great sport of wrestling was the most frequent victim. Ohio State's great wrestling program fell victim to these irrational decisions for a short while, but now it's back and stronger than ever.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 28, 2018 13:14:36 GMT -5
Here an example of got screwed. I know Aaron Alt from Shelby the kid that set the school record in shot put and was part of the state champion track team in 2003. Got a track scholarship to go to Bowling Green and the year he went there they drop the track program because of Title IX. And maybe a deserving girl got a scholarship there in his place?
Stop, just stop. Girls don't deserve scholarships unless they are better than a boy. Want to be equal, then be equal. Women claim they are equal and can do anything a man can do. Okay, drop all girls sports now and start competing with boys since you are equal.
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Post by galion on Sept 28, 2018 13:25:11 GMT -5
Has Title IX turned into a mechanism to discriminate against young men at some of our universities today ? Just some examples Toledo U offers only 6 mens sports ( no track & field ) and offers 9 womens sports ( has track & field ) Bowling Green U 7 mens sports ( no track & field ) 10 womens sports ( has track & field ) Ohio U 6 mens sports ( no track & field ) 9 womens sports ( has track & filed ) Wright State U 6 mens sports ( no track & field ) 7 womens sports ( has track & field ) Does not seem fair to offer track for one sex and not the other. And seems real hard to justify as a worthwhile spending cut when you have the facility paid for and are still paying maintenance and up keep on it for the women. I can understand a school being a non football school that is a large investment to get into. Do not take this the wrong way I am not a sexist against women. I do not want to or promote the taking away of or limiting of any opportunities of our young women in any way shape or form. It just seems to me these days we skew things too far the other way. Take a good honest look at it and see how many mens sports (not just track) across the country took the axe because of Title IX, before you give me some fluffy reasoning behind it was a good idea. And remember every girl you think got more equal rights because you cut a mans opportunity will someday have an important male in their family that gets screwed over it. My opinion we have left too many cry babies out there ruin things. And for those of you out there that pushed so hard for this I hope you had/will have sons and grandsons that are good at track & field and they get screwed out of scholarship opportunities because of what you’ve done. So I ask again has Title IX turned into a mechanism to discriminate against young men at some of our universities today ? What are your thoughts. I don't think that you understand how title IX works. It's not about the number of sports offered. It's about the number of scholarships given. So, if you want to have football then you will have fewer men's sports than women's. Mid-majors don't have "revenue sports". That's why schools in the MAC and elsewhere have always been desperate to play anywhere to get a payday even if it means losing 70-0. They don't fund their athletic programs primarily through ticket sales, they fund them through private donors, our tax dollars(for the public universities), and from the checks they get from playing against the big boys. Nobody was ever making money from Men's track and field. If they were they'd have kept it. So what difference does it make whether a boy or a girl gets that scholarship? There's no fluffy reasoning behind it it's just economics. The men's sports in question were just as big of a financial drain as the women's sports.
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Post by galion on Sept 28, 2018 13:27:44 GMT -5
And maybe a deserving girl got a scholarship there in his place?
Stop, just stop. Girls don't deserve scholarships unless they are better than a boy. Want to be equal, then be equal. Women claim they are equal and can do anything a man can do. Okay, drop all girls sports now and start competing with boys since you are equal. Or how about public schools can only offer sports that can turn a profit on their own? No more tax dollars to prop up athletic departments at all. Sorry MAC no more football.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Sept 28, 2018 13:28:25 GMT -5
I believe women want equality when it comes to treatment when they are more talented compared to their peers in athletics. I think we would all be hard pressed to find a woman who claims equality in the sense that they could bench press, throw, run, or jump as well as a man could.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2018 13:28:37 GMT -5
And maybe a deserving girl got a scholarship there in his place?
Stop, just stop. Girls don't deserve scholarships unless they are better than a boy. Want to be equal, then be equal. Women claim they are equal and can do anything a man can do. Okay, drop all girls sports now and start competing with boys since you are equal. Lets drop all sports scholarships. Why should the rest of the student body/community pay for skills that wont benefit society? Only the most intelligent should get scholarships, not the most brawn.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 28, 2018 13:48:04 GMT -5
Ohio State draws in more students then Tiffin U? Why? Cuz Tiffin U would get beat 278-0 in football if they played Ohio State. Football draws in the STUDENTS, you know the ones that pay. That's why football players get scholarships. Take your crap equality somewhere else. Women can play football, suck it up women and get better and make the team, you are equal after all
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Post by homewrecker on Sept 28, 2018 14:27:27 GMT -5
Here's one for you
Stop letting some kids go to school for free while others have to pay excessively because their parents are not dead beats on welfare and have jobs and stay married.
Stop penalizing the good families of this country to promote the bad.
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Post by nocommonsense on Sept 28, 2018 14:35:52 GMT -5
Here an example of got screwed. I know Aaron Alt from Shelby the kid that set the school record in shot put and was part of the state champion track team in 2003. Got a track scholarship to go to Bowling Green and the year he went there they drop the track program because of Title IX. And maybe a deserving girl got a scholarship there in his place?
How do you think that is any more fair if it went to a girl ? How would you like that to happen to you or your kid
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Post by nocommonsense on Sept 28, 2018 14:53:05 GMT -5
One thing is for sure sports are a big part of todays society and is not going away anytime soon along with the scholarships involved with them. Football is an animal all to its own and does generate a lot of money to help cover other sports. The issue here is the rest of the sports. Title IX was never intended to become the device to allow the cutting of mens sports programs but it has and there is no way we should be ok with that.
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Post by homewrecker on Sept 28, 2018 15:00:51 GMT -5
Has Title IX turned into a mechanism to discriminate against young men at some of our universities today ? Just some examples Toledo U offers only 6 mens sports ( no track & field ) and offers 9 womens sports ( has track & field ) Bowling Green U 7 mens sports ( no track & field ) 10 womens sports ( has track & field ) Ohio U 6 mens sports ( no track & field ) 9 womens sports ( has track & filed ) Wright State U 6 mens sports ( no track & field ) 7 womens sports ( has track & field ) Does not seem fair to offer track for one sex and not the other. And seems real hard to justify as a worthwhile spending cut when you have the facility paid for and are still paying maintenance and up keep on it for the women. I can understand a school being a non football school that is a large investment to get into. Do not take this the wrong way I am not a sexist against women. I do not want to or promote the taking away of or limiting of any opportunities of our young women in any way shape or form. It just seems to me these days we skew things too far the other way. Take a good honest look at it and see how many mens sports (not just track) across the country took the axe because of Title IX, before you give me some fluffy reasoning behind it was a good idea. And remember every girl you think got more equal rights because you cut a mans opportunity will someday have an important male in their family that gets screwed over it. My opinion we have left too many cry babies out there ruin things. And for those of you out there that pushed so hard for this I hope you had/will have sons and grandsons that are good at track & field and they get screwed out of scholarship opportunities because of what you’ve done. So I ask again has Title IX turned into a mechanism to discriminate against young men at some of our universities today ? What are your thoughts. I don't think that you understand how title IX works. It's not about the number of sports offered. It's about the number of scholarships given. So, if you want to have football then you will have fewer men's sports than women's. Mid-majors don't have "revenue sports". That's why schools in the MAC and elsewhere have always been desperate to play anywhere to get a payday even if it means losing 70-0. They don't fund their athletic programs primarily through ticket sales, they fund them through private donors, our tax dollars(for the public universities), and from the checks they get from playing against the big boys. Nobody was ever making money from Men's track and field. If they were they'd have kept it. So what difference does it make whether a boy or a girl gets that scholarship? There's no fluffy reasoning behind it it's just economics. The men's sports in question were just as big of a financial drain as the women's sports. So then what is Wright State University's excuse They don't have a football program.
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Post by homewrecker on Sept 28, 2018 15:32:51 GMT -5
Why should the number of scholarships given to men in football have any effect on other mens sports.
If those scholarships given out in football are available to either sex if they could earn them.
So you think it is ok to penalize men in other sports because of football. That is just a feminist excuse. I hope you have a family of twelve and all boys.
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Post by galion on Sept 29, 2018 0:54:53 GMT -5
What a joke. My question is why is it OK to use taxpayer dollars to subsidize football programs and not women's sports? I'm sorry but any school in the MAC is nothing more than a glorified 1AA team. Do what 1AA and D2 do and limit your football scholarships. Then they can have track, baseball and wrestling too. Why does a 3rd string tackle at BG or a career special teams player at OU deserve a full ride? Quit pointing the finger at title IX and women's sports. Football is your culprit. No school outside of ND outside a power 5 conference has any business fielding a D1 football program.
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Post by galion on Sept 29, 2018 1:08:16 GMT -5
Why should the number of scholarships given to men in football have any effect on other mens sports. If those scholarships given out in football are available to either sex if they could earn them. So you think it is ok to penalize men in other sports because of football. That is just a feminist excuse. I hope you have a family of twelve and all boys. Nobody is penalizing anybody. You need to do some research. Outside of football and basketball it is not typical to see kids getting full rides even at the D1 level. Scholarships are usually split up between 2,3, or 4 students just like in 1AA and D2. I have 4 kids and I stressed to them that the real money is in your test scores and grades. Teach them to work harder in the classroom and they can get a "full ride" anywhere without even having to excel in sports. Typically most of the people who complain about title IX either pinned their hopes or their kids hopes on athletics because it seemed easier than working hard in the classroom for 4 years. In athletics, the best still get the opportunities they earn.
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Post by galion on Sept 29, 2018 9:44:53 GMT -5
Ohio State draws in more students then Tiffin U? Why? Cuz Tiffin U would get beat 278-0 in football if they played Ohio State. Football draws in the STUDENTS, you know the ones that pay. That's why football players get scholarships. Take your crap equality somewhere else. Women can play football, suck it up women and get better and make the team, you are equal after all Just throwing this out there but perhaps more students go to OSU because it is cheaper and offers more programs than Tiffin. I doubt it's the football team. Unless you are a football player you are probably going to be more concerned with cost and job and graduate program placement after graduation. I don't believe that there is a tailgaiting and watching football drunk major, even at OSU.
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Post by dude on Sept 29, 2018 10:08:21 GMT -5
Title IX is a thing from the past that needs to be doe away with.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Sept 29, 2018 10:24:25 GMT -5
Hey galion, take your women studies degree somewhere else. Feminists like you claim women are equal to men, okay bud, then get rid of women's basketball. Get better and make the real basketball team at the school. Take your women can do anything a man can do and stuff it. If it were true then women wouldn't need their own inferior leagues. I bet you are a tranny that plays in the WNBA, are you the gal complaining that WNBA players make a fraction of what NBA players make? Well sister, how about getting better and making an NBA squad, then you could make what NBA players make.
Get rid of womens sports, if they want to say they are equal then prove it. Time to force them to put up or shut up.
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Post by galion on Sept 29, 2018 10:58:43 GMT -5
Hey galion, take your women studies degree somewhere else. Feminists like you claim women are equal to men, okay bud, then get rid of women's basketball. Get better and make the real basketball team at the school. Take your women can do anything a man can do and stuff it. If it were true then women wouldn't need their own inferior leagues. I bet you are a tranny that plays in the WNBA, are you the gal complaining that WNBA players make a fraction of what NBA players make? Well sister, how about getting better and making an NBA squad, then you could make what NBA players make. Get rid of womens sports, if they want to say they are equal then prove it. Time to force them to put up or shut up. What happened to you? Did you not make the cut as an athlete? Do you think that you were screwed out of a scholarship? Can't cope with a girl earning something that you weren't good enough to get? I can't believe that you of all people even support college scholarships anyway. They are literally this country's first affirmative action program. Look at the make up of your money sports. I thought that you were against socialism. Why should somebody who doesn't have the score to be a part of the general population get to go to school for free because of some athletic skill. Furthermore why should the taxpayers have to subsidize it? You guys cry like this is somehow hurting male athletes. The best athletes still earn scholarships. Look at it like the equivalent of the NCAA field of 64. Sure some teams get left out in favor of weaker competition because all conferences have to be represented, but none of those teams are going to win it all anyway. All of the future pro athletes will find their way onto a roster. The ones that don't make the cut should have worked harder in the classroom.
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Post by galion on Sept 29, 2018 11:01:22 GMT -5
Title IX is a thing from the past that needs to be doe away with. It's called the law of unintended consequences. It sounded great in theory but they didn't figure on the mid majors just cutting back on the men's sports to hit the number. Title IX deals with more than just athletics. Ask Baylor.
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Post by dude on Sept 29, 2018 11:04:31 GMT -5
Understood but is FORCED equality really equality?
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Post by galion on Sept 29, 2018 11:08:48 GMT -5
Understood but is FORCED equality really equality? Non revenue generating women's sports can lose money equally as effectively as the non revenue generating men's sports can. Seems pretty equal to me.
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Post by dude on Sept 29, 2018 15:02:46 GMT -5
Very true, both can lose money, but that is not what we were discussing is it?
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Post by nocommonsense on Sept 29, 2018 18:04:40 GMT -5
The real truth is feminist love it because it screws men.
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Post by galion on Sept 29, 2018 18:08:26 GMT -5
Very true, both can lose money, but that is not what we were discussing is it? Actually it is. The basic complaint about title IX is that it has taken opportunities away from non revenue generating men's sports and given them to non revenue generating women's sports. That is in fact a true statement.
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