|
Post by heresjim on Oct 3, 2019 12:26:46 GMT -5
Any particular reason why it makes no sense? That is usually the response I get when people just make the assumption that college athletics have to exist.... It doesn't... This is about human beings. There are hundreds of thousands of kids who are devoting hours on end pursuing a goal (going d1) that they never will accomplish it (and getting injured and missing opportunities along the way). And even if they do, a very small fraction of them are actually going to benefit when it comes time to enter the work force. That time and energy can be used in other endeavors that can set them up better for success in life. I'm not saying "get rid of sports" (considering I benefitted from playing, and I love watching them), but it should not consume most people's lives if it isn't going to be useful for them later on. We can build a culture on other more productive things, and enable kids to partake in other fields they are more suited for. Just imagine if we valued a kid's ability to code just as much as we valued a kid's ability to put a ball through a hoop for example... You've pretty much explained your opinion and I have no problem with that whatsoever. With your attitude or slant on college athletics, makes me ask why you would even waste your time on a site such as this? It's obvious, you have a rather low esteem for athletics and athletes, even though you profess to have been a college athlete yourself. My view, athletics is an integral part of the mind, body and soul and making the assumption that most college athletes are academically deficient or inferior to student attending purely for academic purposes, is a poor assumption. I think quite the opposite. A student athlete has rigors, far more demanding than one that is 100% occupied with their studies. The early rises, weight room, special diets, fitness training, intense practices, studying and memorizing the playbooks, dealing with all sorts of inclement weather, battling physical and mental fatigue and attending classes and late night study sessions, when they are bone tired. That takes a specially motivated person, that goes well beyond the demands of your regular academic student. I should preface my comments by saying I did not participate college athletics, I meant I benefited from playing sports in general. Yes, student athlete has rigors that go beyond what a typical student has to do. That is partially my point. It is often times too much. Remember this scandal with North Carolina? They knew that many of their athletes couldn't perform in the classroom and balance their athletics so they created fake classes and grades for them to stay eligible. www.foxnews.com/us/massive-cheating-scandal-at-unc-included-athletes-fake-classes-and-automatic-gradesThis is partly due to the fact that many of the kids shouldn't be there, and it is also due to the fact that it's is just hard to do what they do. I'm not saying all schools run their programs like this, but it is evidence that athletics are usually put on the pedestal while the kids who do care about their academics are being hindered. If you are always tired and busy, you are just less likely to breakout and develop skills that may be useful down the line. I was able to explore some college clubs in my free time and get job experience which really helped me determine what kind of career I wanted to pursue. Most athletes just don't have that, and it will hinder them as they transition into their career. Yes, they will know how to work hard (though their motivation for their job will probably not be the same for their sport), but often times they will transition into something that they are not suited for. Sometimes it's just better to learn a trade when it comes to long term success and there is nothing wrong with that. And for the kids that should go to college, we should try to maximize their potential for long terms success while they are there. I know plenty of people who didn't do college athletics who outwork everyone around them, so I would rather prioritize skill accumulation in college rather than just focusing on developing work ethic (which people can do beyond athletics anyways).
|
|
|
Post by DrTorch on Oct 3, 2019 13:41:21 GMT -5
ROFL AMATEUR ATHLETICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by DrTorch on Oct 3, 2019 13:42:35 GMT -5
dude the NCAA will get off their fat lazy bum bum holes and do what they should have been doing since the Ed O'Bannon debacle, which is work with the Federal Government to work on a National Law instead of 50 different State Laws, they have had 20 years to get on top of this and have done NOTHING Jim Delaney's press release was the blathering of an idiot. Embarrassing. The government has no business involving themselves and actually they are not, a few rogue states, with California in the lead. The next thing they will want to unionize. We are certainly at the crossroad of either preserving amateur athletics or destroying the basic framework and principles that has successful guided amateur athletics in this country for over a century. Those that are proposing these measures are fully aware of the possible consequences and they could care less. Which would be ultimately, a money driven chaos, in which greedy lawyers would profit immensely and guess who the politicians drafting this language....you guessed it, lawyers elected to office. I can easily see a collapse of present day rules, deteriating into a scenario, where the highest bidders would be a major driving factor in the recruiting process and loyalties would be monetary in nature. I'm not willing to blow up all the good that we now have, with ethics, principles and fairness the driving force of the NCAA's existence.the single most hilarious line i have ever read on the internet and i was an original 4Chan browser lolZ
|
|
|
Post by DrTorch on Oct 3, 2019 13:43:07 GMT -5
you go hang out in West Lafayette and tell me they are in a "fair" situation with Columbus, OH
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 3, 2019 14:45:14 GMT -5
If "amateur" college athletics as we know it will change forever for SOME. Then the following should also change.
The NFL and the NBA must pay their minor leagues(colleges) for developing their talent.
College football and basketball players that make 6 figures+ from their likenesses will no longer have their tuition and room and board paid for. Be honest, their likenesses would not be worth much if not for the college name, uniforms, coaching, training, the college's department of sports information that promote players for all-league, All-American and national position awards AND the other players around them that make them look good.
If the above and athletes then say, why should we go to classes. OK, then these 6 figure players must pay the college to play for their athletic teams. Just like they pay for personal trainers and QB guru's to improve their draft stock.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 3, 2019 14:57:45 GMT -5
you go hang out in West Lafayette and tell me they are in a "fair" situation with Columbus, OH They are in basketball.
|
|
|
Post by heresjim on Oct 3, 2019 15:18:25 GMT -5
If "amateur" college athletics as we know it will change forever for SOME. Then the following should also change. The NFL and the NBA must pay their minor leagues(colleges) for developing their talent. College football and basketball players that make 6 figures+ from their likenesses will no longer have their tuition and room and board paid for. Be honest, their likenesses would not be worth much if not for the college name, uniforms, coaching, training, the college's department of sports information that promote players for all-league, All-American and national position awards AND the other players around them that make them look good. If the above and athletes then say, why should we go to classes. OK, then these 6 figure players must pay the college to play for their athletic teams. Just like they pay for personal trainers and QB guru's to improve their draft stock. It's a two way street. Coaches can't make a name for themselves without good players. Many schools can't make themselves nationally renown without a good football team (think Boise State). They work together to make a product that makes money. Any part that is missing reduces the value of everyone. It's also silly using this logic, considering you wouldn't use this with other jobs. Should a journalist who covers the Brown's pay the Browns to cover them? That journalist would be worth nothing without the team to cover. Should I pay my employer for training me on the tools needed in order to do my job and be productive? I agree that players shouldn't get free tuition or room and board, but to say they should pay the school to play for them is absurd. They would be defined as employees of a company, not subscribers of a training service.
|
|
|
Post by maplecityjake on Oct 3, 2019 16:17:17 GMT -5
ROFL AMATEUR ATHLETICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, amateur as it can be, cough, cough.
|
|
|
Post by fbfan on Oct 3, 2019 16:43:46 GMT -5
If "amateur" college athletics as we know it will change forever for SOME. Then the following should also change. The NFL and the NBA must pay their minor leagues(colleges) for developing their talent. College football and basketball players that make 6 figures+ from their likenesses will no longer have their tuition and room and board paid for. Be honest, their likenesses would not be worth much if not for the college name, uniforms, coaching, training, the college's department of sports information that promote players for all-league, All-American and national position awards AND the other players around them that make them look good. If the above and athletes then say, why should we go to classes. OK, then these 6 figure players must pay the college to play for their athletic teams. Just like they pay for personal trainers and QB guru's to improve their draft stock. It's a two way street. Coaches can't make a name for themselves without good players. Many schools can't make themselves nationally renown without a good football team (think Boise State). They work together to make a product that makes money. Any part that is missing reduces the value of everyone. It's also silly using this logic, considering you wouldn't use this with other jobs. Should a journalist who covers the Brown's pay the Browns to cover them? That journalist would be worth nothing without the team to cover. Should I pay my employer for training me on the tools needed in order to do my job and be productive? I agree that players shouldn't get free tuition or room and board, but to say they should pay the school to play for them is absurd. They would be defined as employees of a company, not subscribers of a training service.Wait a minute. Don't non-athletes pay colleges to train them? Did that journalist or you pay a college or other education source to train you before your employer would hire you? You could probably count on one hand how many high school seniors have ever been NFL ready. How many high school players could train on their own for a couple of years, without the benefits mentioned above that are provided by the colleges, and be NFL ready? How would they get the game exposure to get an endorsement or be drafted? Without the colleges making all that money, how would all the other sports that are supported by the football and basketball programs be affected? I could go on and on with examples. It's a symbiotic relationship. Trying to change that may have a lot of unintended consequences.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Oct 3, 2019 16:56:54 GMT -5
ROFL AMATEUR ATHLETICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, amateur as it can be, cough, cough. If you are thinking in International Olympic sense....I would agree with you.
|
|
|
Post by heresjim on Oct 3, 2019 17:06:41 GMT -5
It's a two way street. Coaches can't make a name for themselves without good players. Many schools can't make themselves nationally renown without a good football team (think Boise State). They work together to make a product that makes money. Any part that is missing reduces the value of everyone. It's also silly using this logic, considering you wouldn't use this with other jobs. Should a journalist who covers the Brown's pay the Browns to cover them? That journalist would be worth nothing without the team to cover. Should I pay my employer for training me on the tools needed in order to do my job and be productive? I agree that players shouldn't get free tuition or room and board, but to say they should pay the school to play for them is absurd. They would be defined as employees of a company, not subscribers of a training service.Wait a minute. Don't non-athletes pay colleges to train them? Did that journalist or you pay a college or other education source to train you before your employer would hire you? You could probably count on one hand how many high school seniors have ever been NFL ready. How many high school players could train on their own for a couple of years, without the benefits mentioned above that are provided by the colleges, and be NFL ready? How would they get the game exposure to get an endorsement or be drafted? Without the colleges making all that money, how would all the other sports that are supported by the football and basketball programs be affected? I could go on and on with examples. It's a symbiotic relationship. Trying to change that may have a lot of unintended consequences. So the key difference is that I didn't do work for the college and I didn't produce anything of value for them... I would have to sign a contract with the school if they want to use my likeness to advertise for themselves. If I pay the college to train me, the relationship is different. That is the difference between the NFL and the football Spring League that develops players. As its heading forward, athletes will likely become employees of the university, hence the employer-employee relationship. That is how they will be defined when it comes to the law. Yes, everything will be affected. If you had read my previous posts, I have stated that we should prepare for the end of college athletics. The consequences of the decisions are detrimental long term, and it's something that I am ready to accept.
|
|
|
Post by Green Falcon on Oct 3, 2019 18:00:45 GMT -5
If "amateur" college athletics as we know it will change forever for SOME. Then the following should also change. The NFL and the NBA must pay their minor leagues(colleges) for developing their talent. College football and basketball players that make 6 figures+ from their likenesses will no longer have their tuition and room and board paid for. Be honest, their likenesses would not be worth much if not for the college name, uniforms, coaching, training, the college's department of sports information that promote players for all-league, All-American and national position awards AND the other players around them that make them look good. If the above and athletes then say, why should we go to classes. OK, then these 6 figure players must pay the college to play for their athletic teams. Just like they pay for personal trainers and QB guru's to improve their draft stock. So the NBA should pay euroleague teams too? So someone like Zion Williamson would have been a nobody but because he went to Duke he became famous? Football players may sometimes need a very good university as a brand to increase their likeness, but not basketball players. It'd be difficult to name where most players even went since they only go for a year if they weren't an international player.
|
|
|
Post by Green Falcon on Oct 3, 2019 18:04:03 GMT -5
Could we be going the way of teams have "academy" or "training" teams like other countries do with sports, most notably soccer. MLS currently does and the NBA can with the GLeague for 18 year olds and MLB does with camps around the globe.
|
|
|
Post by DrTorch on Oct 3, 2019 22:45:37 GMT -5
much ado about nothing imho, good gravy, the Universities won't be paying anyone a dime
|
|
|
Post by dude on Oct 4, 2019 3:55:09 GMT -5
So someone like Zion Williamson would have been a nobody but because he went to Duke he became famous? Seriously? How many people across the country knew the name of Zion before he put a Duke uniform on?
|
|
|
Post by Green Falcon on Oct 4, 2019 6:36:02 GMT -5
So someone like Zion Williamson would have been a nobody but because he went to Duke he became famous? Seriously? How many people across the country knew the name of Zion before he put a Duke uniform on? Millions
|
|
|
Post by dude on Oct 4, 2019 7:37:47 GMT -5
Seriously? How many people across the country knew the name of Zion before he put a Duke uniform on? Millions No chance that is even close to being accurate. The kid attended a private school in S. Carolina. The general public outside of 150 miles did not know of him.
|
|
|
Post by galion on Oct 4, 2019 7:49:59 GMT -5
Really? The guy was a top 20 recruit going into Duke. He was hardly anonymous.
|
|
|
Post by Green Falcon on Oct 4, 2019 8:16:19 GMT -5
No chance that is even close to being accurate. The kid attended a private school in S. Carolina. The general public outside of 150 miles did not know of him. While in high school his highlight reels had millions if views on youtube. Also millions of views across each social media platform. Drake, one of if not the most popular musician in 2017 (Zion's HS year) was wearing his small private jersey which made him even more popular. Top HS players compete year round in AAU, their school is really just a sidenote. This is all evident that he could have been making money off his likeness by the time he was in college, yet could not.
|
|
|
Post by DrTorch on Oct 4, 2019 8:19:10 GMT -5
if you didn't know who Zion was before his frosh year then you live under a rock
|
|
|
Post by DrTorch on Oct 4, 2019 8:21:26 GMT -5
it kills me how guys will get on one thread and tout the GOP and free market capitalism and then jump on here and say that grown *** men shouldn't be able to make $$ for themselves
good grief
|
|
|
Post by DrTorch on Oct 4, 2019 8:22:13 GMT -5
sidenote: that curse-word-auto-corrects on this site are fantastic rofl
|
|
|
Post by fbfan on Oct 4, 2019 9:00:18 GMT -5
it kills me how guys will get on one thread and tout the GOP and free market capitalism and then jump on here and say that grown bum bum men shouldn't be able to make $$ for themselves good grief it kills me how DEM socialists will cry that capitalism is evil and unfair on one thread, then jump on here say that grown *** men should be able to make all the $$ they want for themselves good golly
|
|
|
Post by dude on Oct 4, 2019 10:39:44 GMT -5
No chance that is even close to being accurate. The kid attended a private school in S. Carolina. The general public outside of 150 miles did not know of him. While in high school his highlight reels had millions if views on youtube. Also millions of views across each social media platform. Drake, one of if not the most popular musician in 2017 (Zion's HS year) was wearing his small private jersey which made him even more popular. Top HS players compete year round in AAU, their school is really just a sidenote. This is all evident that he could have been making money off his likeness by the time he was in college, yet could not. I said general public and millions who now know of him did not before Duke. Millions on youtube do not mean millions of people. the same kid can play it a hundred times.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Oct 4, 2019 10:42:11 GMT -5
if you didn't know who Zion was before his frosh year then you live under a rock That not true. This kid became a regular highlight film at Duke and many average fans would not have seen him until he played on national tv during games, replays or sports shows. High school kids do not get near the coverage that Duke does. That's why he went there.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Oct 4, 2019 10:44:50 GMT -5
it kills me how guys will get on one thread and tout the GOP and free market capitalism and then jump on here and say that grown bum bum men shouldn't be able to make $$ for themselves good grief I have no problem with grown men making $$$ or paying their bills. In fact I believe grown men should be able to go directly from high school into the NBA and NFL.
|
|
|
Post by Green Falcon on Oct 4, 2019 11:07:33 GMT -5
While in high school his highlight reels had millions if views on youtube. Also millions of views across each social media platform. Drake, one of if not the most popular musician in 2017 (Zion's HS year) was wearing his small private jersey which made him even more popular. Top HS players compete year round in AAU, their school is really just a sidenote. This is all evident that he could have been making money off his likeness by the time he was in college, yet could not. I said general public and millions who now know of him did not before Duke. Millions on youtube do not mean millions of people. the same kid can play it a hundred times. Yes Duke made him even more popular and increased his likeness, but he was already popular and had a valuable likeness and could have has opportunities to make money off his likeness before getting there. Duke is not the reason he his valuable, players like him are the reason Duke is.
|
|
|
Post by DrTorch on Oct 4, 2019 12:22:53 GMT -5
it kills me how guys will get on one thread and tout the GOP and free market capitalism and then jump on here and say that grown bum bum men shouldn't be able to make $$ for themselves good grief it kills me how DEM socialists will cry that capitalism is evil and unfair on one thread, then jump on here say that grown bum bum men should be able to make all the $$ they want for themselves good golly i'm not a Dem or a Socialist rofl! Good lord.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Oct 4, 2019 12:24:53 GMT -5
I said general public and millions who now know of him did not before Duke. Millions on youtube do not mean millions of people. the same kid can play it a hundred times. Yes Duke made him even more popular and increased his likeness, but he was already popular and had a valuable likeness and could have has opportunities to make money off his likeness before getting there. Duke is not the reason he his valuable, players like him are the reason Duke is. I never stated he didn't have some popularity, but without a doubt having Duke across his chest put advanced him a couple tax brackets. Do you really believe he would be in the same seat today had he worn VCU on his chest last season?
|
|
|
Post by Green Falcon on Oct 4, 2019 12:55:21 GMT -5
Yes Duke made him even more popular and increased his likeness, but he was already popular and had a valuable likeness and could have has opportunities to make money off his likeness before getting there. Duke is not the reason he his valuable, players like him are the reason Duke is. I never stated he didn't have some popularity, but without a doubt having Duke across his chest put advanced him a couple tax brackets. Do you really believe he would be in the same seat today had he worn VCU on his chest last season? My point does not matter which school he chose, it's that he could have been making money off his previously gained popularity
|
|