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Post by dude on Mar 6, 2019 23:25:44 GMT -5
I don’t have a Little Johnny on the team, I’m not vested in the program. I just report what a have heard from people and observed for myself. I’ve seen and heard a lot over the last 5-6 years from friends with kids that play/played under him. I’ve seen a poorly run program with my own eyes. I told you guys awhile back that he wouldn’t be back, everyone thought I was crazy when I said it.Maybe the next coach will be better maybe he’ll be worse, myself I think the change was overdue. You probably knew about the action that took place off the court that contributed. It was a safe bet to make.
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Post by ohioraised on Mar 7, 2019 14:25:43 GMT -5
Are the RV and Shelby rumors true? Buckeye is leaving so I don't need to ask about them but Ontario, Pleasant and Marion coaches will come back. Does Clear Fork, Galion come back?
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Mar 7, 2019 15:26:47 GMT -5
Then why do other schools want him? Why don't administrators at those schools know what you know? What can I say, there was also a lot of people out there that wanted Hillary for president. I just called them clueless. Your points on Schwemley are valid. I agree with the criticisms. As I have stated, my concern with pushing Schwemley out has been where to find a replacement who could do better. That's my risk adverse approach to problems. But looking at Kenton and River Valley, I can see why they would be willing to take the dive on Schwemley as the head coach. I dug around and found River Valley, Kenton, and Shelby's league records from 2006-07 to 2018-19. I didn't look at non-league results, as it isn't representative. Kenton, a D2 basketball school, loves playing D4 schools for non-league. Their league is what matters. Shelby's league record with Schwemley, over the past 13 seasons: 106-58, 64% league win rate Kenton's Western Buckeye League record over the past 13 seasons: 31-86, 26% league win rate (only two seasons over .500 in league play, thanks to 6'11" Michigan State recruit Garrick Sherman in 2006-07 and 2007-08) River Valley's Mid-Ohio Athletic Conference record over the past 13 seasons: 77-94, 45% league win rate (and these wins are fluffed up by playing the likes of Marion Elgin, Northmor, Mt. Gilead, and other small schools in league play) If you are Kenton, would you rather deal with Schwemley or go 3-6 or worse in league play for the 11th year in a row? If you are River Valley, would you rather deal with a home-grown Schwemley who could win nearly 2/3 of his league games against tougher competition in the NOL and SBC or flirt with going .500? For these ADs, it ought to be a no brainer. Hell, I think we all knew a guy we envied for their beautiful significant other, only for him to be thrilled to get out of the house and away from her. Kenton and River Valley are the envious ones. For Shelby, we are at the point where we want more tournament results and league titles. Going over .500 is nice, but the disease of *more* is creeping up. For Kenton and RV, they just want some consistent winning on any measure.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 7, 2019 16:19:49 GMT -5
Schwemley sat on the Norwalk side of the court last night. At half time in front of the stands at mid-court was talking with a about 10 different people that looked like other coaches and AD's that I didn't recognize from my side. I doubt any of them were from Shelby.
River Valley has some nice young players coming.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Mar 7, 2019 16:21:41 GMT -5
I'm going to channel my inner radiodave here.
Kenton fun facts:
- These guys suck at basketball - Really, they are horrific - The last three times they were 3rd or better in their 10-team league: - 2006-07, 3rd place - 1980-81, four-way tie for first place with a 6-3 league record - 1967-68, 2nd place - 1966-67, 1st place
I do recall seeing in the Wall Street Journal a few years ago about how Kenton is a poster child for the Midwest opioid epidemic and how it has made that town unviable in many ways. I wish I had saved the article, the analysis was very extensive.
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Post by nocommonsense on Mar 8, 2019 7:38:01 GMT -5
I'm going to channel my inner radiodave here. Kenton fun facts: - These guys suck at basketball - Really, they are horrific - The last three times they were 3rd or better in their 10-team league: - 2006-07, 3rd place - 1980-81, four-way tie for first place with a 6-3 league record - 1967-68, 2nd place - 1966-67, 1st place I do recall seeing in the Wall Street Journal a few years ago about how Kenton is a poster child for the Midwest opioid epidemic and how it has made that town unviable in many ways. I wish I had saved the article, the analysis was very extensive. Kenton sure put together some great football teams when the Coach Mauk and his boys were there.
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Post by dude on Mar 8, 2019 8:15:15 GMT -5
I'm going to channel my inner radiodave here. Kenton fun facts: - These guys suck at basketball - Really, they are horrific - The last three times they were 3rd or better in their 10-team league: - 2006-07, 3rd place - 1980-81, four-way tie for first place with a 6-3 league record - 1967-68, 2nd place - 1966-67, 1st place I do recall seeing in the Wall Street Journal a few years ago about how Kenton is a poster child for the Midwest opioid epidemic and how it has made that town unviable in many ways. I wish I had saved the article, the analysis was very extensive. You do know this league include Ottawa-Glandorf, Lima Shawnee, Celina and Elida to mention a few.
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Post by homewrecker on Mar 8, 2019 9:05:31 GMT -5
I'm going to channel my inner radiodave here. Kenton fun facts: - These guys suck at basketball - Really, they are horrific - The last three times they were 3rd or better in their 10-team league: - 2006-07, 3rd place - 1980-81, four-way tie for first place with a 6-3 league record - 1967-68, 2nd place - 1966-67, 1st place I do recall seeing in the Wall Street Journal a few years ago about how Kenton is a poster child for the Midwest opioid epidemic and how it has made that town unviable in many ways. I wish I had saved the article, the analysis was very extensive. You do know this league include Ottawa-Glandorf, Lima Shawnee, Celina and Elida to mention a few. Shelby would normally be towards the bottom end in the WBL in both BB and FB. Add in Wapakoneta, Van Wert, Lima Bath I don't see many league titles in BB or FB. CC & Track they would have competed well last few years.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Mar 8, 2019 9:16:40 GMT -5
I'm going to channel my inner radiodave here. Kenton fun facts: - These guys suck at basketball - Really, they are horrific - The last three times they were 3rd or better in their 10-team league: - 2006-07, 3rd place - 1980-81, four-way tie for first place with a 6-3 league record - 1967-68, 2nd place - 1966-67, 1st place I do recall seeing in the Wall Street Journal a few years ago about how Kenton is a poster child for the Midwest opioid epidemic and how it has made that town unviable in many ways. I wish I had saved the article, the analysis was very extensive. You do know this league include Ottawa-Glandorf, Lima Shawnee, Celina and Elida to mention a few. I do know this. Kenton's futility is a by-product of those teams' inclusion in the WBL and their own ineptitude. For me, it can be just as fascinating to look at year over year over year of success from teams like OG as it is to look at teams like Kenton who can absolutely NOT put it together over 75ish years in the league (in basketball, at least). Radiodave is feeling incredibly righteous at the moment as I discuss this.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Mar 8, 2019 9:31:19 GMT -5
You do know this league include Ottawa-Glandorf, Lima Shawnee, Celina and Elida to mention a few. Shelby would normally be towards the bottom end in the WBL in both BB and FB. Add in Wapakoneta, Van Wert, Lima Bath I don't see many league titles in BB or FB. CC & Track they would have competed well last few years. I always wondered if this is a nuture or nature cause for this. The Shelby we know could not hold a candle to the WBL in most years in most sports. This isn't directed at you homewrecker, this is just a hypothetical thought I've had in general: if Shelby were a town that was actually located 70 miles west where the majority of the WBL (and MAC, for that matter) is located, would the sheer cultural differences that are present in those towns have been adopted in Shelby athletics? There are certainly external factors in those towns that generate better athletic programs. Families with higher average income, lower divorce rates, lower poverty rates, and a higher homogeneous religious network. Not to say that being Catholic makes you a better athlete, but a big influencer like that which everyone in the community shares would no doubt lower attrition and build stronger bonds (for example, I've heard that Kirtland has a strong Mormon community, not sure how much truth that holds, but they certainly have the only football program in the state that rivals Coldwater and Marion Local). But for all those external factors, there are the simple factors of coaching. Shelby track and CC have been so successful because of coaching. Food for thought, everyone.
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Post by homewrecker on Mar 8, 2019 9:35:47 GMT -5
You say Kenton is bad at BB I honestly don’t think the current way Shelby’s program was run would have improved that status much if at all. Shelby probably had better athletes to start with.
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Post by homewrecker on Mar 8, 2019 9:57:39 GMT -5
Shelby would normally be towards the bottom end in the WBL in both BB and FB. Add in Wapakoneta, Van Wert, Lima Bath I don't see many league titles in BB or FB. CC & Track they would have competed well last few years. I always wondered if this is a nuture or nature cause for this. The Shelby we know could not hold a candle to the WBL in most years in most sports. This isn't directed at you homewrecker, this is just a hypothetical thought I've had in general: if Shelby were a town that was actually located 70 miles west where the majority of the WBL (and MAC, for that matter) is located, would the sheer cultural differences that are present in those towns have been adopted in Shelby athletics? There are certainly external factors in those towns that generate better athletic programs. Families with higher average income, lower divorce rates, lower poverty rates, and a higher homogeneous religious network. Not to say that being Catholic makes you a better athlete, but a big influencer like that which everyone in the community shares would no doubt lower attrition and build stronger bonds (for example, I've heard that Kirtland has a strong Mormon community, not sure how much truth that holds, but they certainly have the only football program in the state that rivals Coldwater and Marion Local). But for all those external factors, there are the simple factors of coaching. Shelby track and CC have been so successful because of coaching. Food for thought, everyone. The success from the CC team is evidence of how a properly run program that encourages kids can succeed. No doubt that was bolstered by a special group going through the last few years and a drop off is coming after graduation of this group. You just had four of those boys win gold medals at state indoor, and I have heard that three of these kids were in BB at one time before Schwemley discouraged them and ran them off. The problem in Shelby BB is not lack of athletic kids it’s been the leadership of the program an unwillingness or inability to develop players.
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Post by homewrecker on Mar 8, 2019 10:03:50 GMT -5
Unwillingness or inability to develop players, you want proof of this That's why the best player on the team was a transfer, he learned skills elsewhere before coming to Shelby.
And don’t forget about the inability to retain talent.
Just look at last year’s senior class in Shelby C Brooks , D Brooks, B Armstrong, B Hill, A Parrigan, Ty Hoffman, H Bishop All these kids played BB and by the end of their senior year only C Brooks was left. This was a group used to winning. What happen to them ? Shelby coach ran them off
Cant retain talent. I know lets blame the kids or mommy again it’s definitely not a coaching issue.
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Post by homewrecker on Mar 8, 2019 10:22:09 GMT -5
Shelby would normally be towards the bottom end in the WBL in both BB and FB. Add in Wapakoneta, Van Wert, Lima Bath I don't see many league titles in BB or FB. CC & Track they would have competed well last few years. I always wondered if this is a nuture or nature cause for this. The Shelby we know could not hold a candle to the WBL in most years in most sports. This isn't directed at you homewrecker, this is just a hypothetical thought I've had in general: if Shelby were a town that was actually located 70 miles west where the majority of the WBL (and MAC, for that matter) is located, would the sheer cultural differences that are present in those towns have been adopted in Shelby athletics? There are certainly external factors in those towns that generate better athletic programs. Families with higher average income, lower divorce rates, lower poverty rates, and a higher homogeneous religious network. Not to say that being Catholic makes you a better athlete, but a big influencer like that which everyone in the community shares would no doubt lower attrition and build stronger bonds (for example, I've heard that Kirtland has a strong Mormon community, not sure how much truth that holds, but they certainly have the only football program in the state that rivals Coldwater and Marion Local). But for all those external factors, there are the simple factors of coaching. Shelby track and CC have been so successful because of coaching. Food for thought, everyone. Just wanted to state this in Shelby's defense (above in bold) you could say that about most of the area teams. the WBL is tough.
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Post by dude on Mar 8, 2019 11:37:38 GMT -5
I always wondered if this is a nuture or nature cause for this. The Shelby we know could not hold a candle to the WBL in most years in most sports. This isn't directed at you homewrecker, this is just a hypothetical thought I've had in general: if Shelby were a town that was actually located 70 miles west where the majority of the WBL (and MAC, for that matter) is located, would the sheer cultural differences that are present in those towns have been adopted in Shelby athletics? There are certainly external factors in those towns that generate better athletic programs. Families with higher average income, lower divorce rates, lower poverty rates, and a higher homogeneous religious network. Not to say that being Catholic makes you a better athlete, but a big influencer like that which everyone in the community shares would no doubt lower attrition and build stronger bonds (for example, I've heard that Kirtland has a strong Mormon community, not sure how much truth that holds, but they certainly have the only football program in the state that rivals Coldwater and Marion Local). But for all those external factors, there are the simple factors of coaching. Shelby track and CC have been so successful because of coaching. Food for thought, everyone. Just wanted to state this in Shelby's defense (above in bold) you could say that about most of the area teams. the WBL is tough. It is really not the WBL specifically that is tough. It's the mentality of some of the teams in it. They look to play tough schedules every year and in return it makes their programs better. Many teams in our area are interested in wins and not always playing the best competition they can. Many like their comfortable schedules.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Mar 8, 2019 12:39:26 GMT -5
Just wanted to state this in Shelby's defense (above in bold) you could say that about most of the area teams. the WBL is tough. It is really not the WBL specifically that is tough. It's the mentality of some of the teams in it. They look to play tough schedules every year and in return it makes their programs better. Many teams in our area are interested in wins and not always playing the best competition they can. Many like their comfortable schedules. I look at that argument as a "chicken and the egg" discussion. That is to say, "do teams schedule tough because they can compete or do they compete because they schedule tough?" But I'm open to hearing it out a little bit. Which teams do you have in mind when you think of local teams that aren't scheduling up to their potential?
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Post by dude on Mar 8, 2019 12:48:40 GMT -5
I'm not looking to throw darts at local teams. My point is sometimes you have to schedule the risk of a potential loss to see where you are outside of the area. We have a lot of current local teams that can have success each year but have little success outside of county or 50 miles. Some coaches will drive half way across the state to scrimmage or do team camps to play good competition but will not leave a 50 mile circle for games. Fan support and ticket sales also factor into it as well.
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Post by homewrecker on Mar 8, 2019 13:07:08 GMT -5
True , Beating up on Willard by 50 in football , does nothing to improve a team or find out just how good you really are.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Mar 8, 2019 13:50:42 GMT -5
Beating Willard by 50 in football had nothing to do with Shelby being unable to beat Oak Harbor, PC, Bellevue, Huron, and Norwalk this year. The incremental value gained from playing a more legit school was probably minimal. Also, let's not forget that these schedules are made a few years in advance, and with the short notice of switching from the NOL to the SBC and to the MOAC, Shelby was probably just trying to avoid a situation where they had to play a team like Bryan. As for next year, a year where they had more stability in predicting their league affiliation, they managed to get Big Walnut on the schedule, which I think will be a good game. Besides, this was a Shelby team that found a way to beat Lexington...I don't think they had an issue with playing up to competition as it was internal turmoil from what I understand.
...back to basketball.
Another thing that probably goes in the face of our local teams using more creative scheduling is the double round-robin. Basically, leagues west of Upper Sandusky, Findlay, and Bowling Green much favor a single round-robin format for league play. If the MOAC, SBC, and OCC schools got their non-league slate doubled tomorrow, I bet there would be a lot more creative scheduling going on.
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Post by moacpops on Mar 8, 2019 16:04:40 GMT -5
As an old-timer you're facts are right going back to 2006-2007. But you should have went back more. From before the formation of the MOAC River Valley was always a good basketball school. In the old NCC days and in the MOAC River Valley was at or near the top under Coach Rich, Coach Freshour and Coach Bollinger. River Valley has been a mess since Bollinger left 10 to 15 years ago. Marion County in general had good basketball at River Valley, Ridgedale, Pleasant, and Elgin. Those schools have all had regional teams and All-ohio players. River Valley is loaded with young talent. Some RV folks will tell you the middle school and elementary teams have some of the best talent to ever come through. Schwemly knows how good River Valley was. Good move for him and the Vikings
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Mar 8, 2019 16:13:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, moacpops. I was not familiar with the River Valley lore nor can I claim to be knowledgeable about Marion County basketball as a whole.
I only went back to 2006-07 because that is when Schwemley was hired at Shelby, which allowed for the best comparison between what was done at Shelby and what was done at River Valley and Kenton.
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Post by moacpops on Mar 8, 2019 16:19:03 GMT -5
You're welcome shelbyrr. Good luck to the Whippets in finding their new coach.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 10, 2019 19:24:33 GMT -5
Unwillingness or inability to develop players, you want proof of this That's why the best player on the team was a transfer, he learned skills elsewhere before coming to Shelby. And don’t forget about the inability to retain talent. Just look at last year’s senior class in Shelby C Brooks , D Brooks, B Armstrong, B Hill, A Parrigan, Ty Hoffman, H Bishop All these kids played BB and by the end of their senior year only C Brooks was left. This was a group used to winning. What happen to them ? Shelby coach ran them off Cant retain talent. I know lets blame the kids or mommy again it’s definitely not a coaching issue. If most of the players mentioned did not play football and played basketball, Schwemley couldn't mess it up. However, football players playing basketball to stay in shape for football and baseball does not guarantee a basketball team. What helps basketball the most is having 3 or 4 good athletes in every class concentrating on basketball and working on basketball skills year round. Not many kids theses days want to play 3 sports and it doesn't help their favored sport.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 10, 2019 19:33:04 GMT -5
Shelby would normally be towards the bottom end in the WBL in both BB and FB. Add in Wapakoneta, Van Wert, Lima Bath I don't see many league titles in BB or FB. CC & Track they would have competed well last few years. I always wondered if this is a nuture or nature cause for this. The Shelby we know could not hold a candle to the WBL in most years in most sports. This isn't directed at you homewrecker, this is just a hypothetical thought I've had in general: if Shelby were a town that was actually located 70 miles west where the majority of the WBL (and MAC, for that matter) is located, would the sheer cultural differences that are present in those towns have been adopted in Shelby athletics? There are certainly external factors in those towns that generate better athletic programs. Families with higher average income, lower divorce rates, lower poverty rates, and a higher homogeneous religious network. Not to say that being Catholic makes you a better athlete, but a big influencer like that which everyone in the community shares would no doubt lower attrition and build stronger bonds (for example, I've heard that Kirtland has a strong Mormon community, not sure how much truth that holds, but they certainly have the only football program in the state that rivals Coldwater and Marion Local). But for all those external factors, there are the simple factors of coaching. Shelby track and CC have been so successful because of coaching. Food for thought, everyone. All schools in the MAC are smaller than Shelby, yet the conference has on average of 10 football players playing DI football every year. You think Shelby had a big team the past couple of years? You should look at their football programs. You've never seen so many kids between 6-4 and 6-6 that weigh between 250 and 275. Not many fat 6-1 300 pounders. Strapping German ancestry farm boys. The same goes for the WBL, only on a larger scale.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Mar 11, 2019 8:43:16 GMT -5
I always wondered if this is a nuture or nature cause for this. The Shelby we know could not hold a candle to the WBL in most years in most sports. This isn't directed at you homewrecker, this is just a hypothetical thought I've had in general: if Shelby were a town that was actually located 70 miles west where the majority of the WBL (and MAC, for that matter) is located, would the sheer cultural differences that are present in those towns have been adopted in Shelby athletics? There are certainly external factors in those towns that generate better athletic programs. Families with higher average income, lower divorce rates, lower poverty rates, and a higher homogeneous religious network. Not to say that being Catholic makes you a better athlete, but a big influencer like that which everyone in the community shares would no doubt lower attrition and build stronger bonds (for example, I've heard that Kirtland has a strong Mormon community, not sure how much truth that holds, but they certainly have the only football program in the state that rivals Coldwater and Marion Local). But for all those external factors, there are the simple factors of coaching. Shelby track and CC have been so successful because of coaching. Food for thought, everyone. All schools in the MAC are smaller than Shelby, yet the conference has on average of 10 football players playing DI football every year. You think Shelby had a big team the past couple of years? You should look at their football programs. You've never seen so many kids between 6-4 and 6-6 that weigh between 250 and 275. Not many fat 6-1 300 pounders. Strapping German ancestry farm boys. The same goes for the WBL, only on a larger scale. Not only that, but I've had conversations with folks who have family in that area or hail from there to start out with. It isn't entirely unusual for families (i.e., it is widespread) to hold their kids back a year in their early years. An athlete who is 19 may compete in sports so long as they were not 19 before the first day of the school year. If they turn 19 in mid-September, they are still good to go. Citing the families with better incomes, lower divorce rates, etc., it makes sense that these households are better prepared to be taking care of their toddlers / pre-K kids for an extra year. The end result is you have seniors on Coldwater who are 19 playing against seniors who could be 18 months younger.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 11, 2019 11:09:05 GMT -5
They've kinda copied what Massillon has done with their football players for 75 years. Only it's the football coaches who decide what kids they want to hold back. A friend had a son who was a starter for Massillon's 8th grade team, but not one of the players chosen to be held back. The coaches thought he was very mature for an 8th grader, thus not worthy of being held back. He wasn't going to get much bigger or faster. His dad was REALLY PO'd.
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Post by dude on Mar 11, 2019 12:29:41 GMT -5
Good luck to the Whippets in finding their new coach. Is this official yet? I have had some people tell me this is just rumor being spread by unhappy fans.
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Post by fanofthegame on Mar 11, 2019 16:40:37 GMT -5
I’ve spoken with a school board member within the last week and asked. Unless it’s being kept quiet nothing is official.
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 11, 2019 17:06:55 GMT -5
I'm going to channel my inner radiodave here. Kenton fun facts: - These guys suck at basketball - Really, they are horrific - The last three times they were 3rd or better in their 10-team league: - 2006-07, 3rd place - 1980-81, four-way tie for first place with a 6-3 league record - 1967-68, 2nd place - 1966-67, 1st place I do recall seeing in the Wall Street Journal a few years ago about how Kenton is a poster child for the Midwest opioid epidemic and how it has made that town unviable in many ways. I wish I had saved the article, the analysis was very extensive. You do know this league include Ottawa-Glandorf, Lima Shawnee, Celina and Elida to mention a few. Don't forget Defiance who won State right after Norwalk, and also won State for Football within 25 years as well. Finally, their Baseball program is off the charts.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 11, 2019 18:52:03 GMT -5
I’ve spoken with a school board member within the last week and asked. Unless it’s being kept quiet nothing is official. The BOD member said, "unless it's being kept quiet"??
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