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Post by fbfan on Dec 12, 2018 10:58:04 GMT -5
Everyone keeps tossing around Stone going to US, but I pose this: If Stone had moved to Mohawk for this season (another neighboring school), would Mohawk have been the N10 favorite? I feel what your putting down! Absolutely that would have given the warriors a big edge. Those seniors and an active mobile big man. They are a good team alone add that much more size and it would have been fun to see You guys are talking about a thing that in the old days, (before the OHSAA had to get all P.C.) would have been a blatant case of illegal recruiting. Can't believe some of you are worried about a handshake.
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Post by dude on Dec 12, 2018 11:05:54 GMT -5
... That is pretty much what I had been told. I had been told that last season's Jv and varsity roster had 6 kids of the 18 total that did not live in the district. I have no idea if it's top secret or available anywhere. Back when the numbers came out I got them from a Columbus news. Must have an inside source telling you from Columbus. You are referencing two different conversations. Last year a CC parent made the comment to me that 30-40% of their school's students are open enrolled and that they had 6 kids that did not. When a poster commented about the CB numbers I looked at the calculation sheets that OHSAA put out before school started.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 12, 2018 11:14:08 GMT -5
You were the one making the comparison of homegrown vs. move in, transfer, etc. "...Wynford, Carey & Mohawk are basketball programs made up of virtually all Home-Grown players. Crawford as stated previously is a program that has significantly benefitted and currently benefits from move-ins and transfers." is what you said. Where's your stats? When stats were provided, you were proved wrong. Once again, you then changed your narrative. Now move-ins and transfers don't count if they're no good. Better call OHSAA and tell them to change their formula. Your credibility drops with every change in your narrative. fbfan, proved wrong? Never said that "move-ins or transfers don't count if they are no good" I pointed out that Wynfords move-ins and transfers have not helped the basketball program become successful. Crawford's move-ins and transfers have dramatically helped their programs success. This narrative is very credible Here are the stats in the form of names... Jury, Metcalf, Entenmann, Shell, McCreary x 2, Schaum, Fenner, Feichtner, etc... All move-ins or transfers. How many were recruited?
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 12, 2018 11:29:05 GMT -5
I feel what your putting down! Absolutely that would have given the warriors a big edge. Those seniors and an active mobile big man. They are a good team alone add that much more size and it would have been fun to see You guys are talking about a thing that in the old days, (before the OHSAA had to get all P.C.) would have been a blatant case of illegal recruiting. Can't believe some of you are worried about a handshake. How is it "illegal recruiting" if a player from another school wants to change schools and move or transfer to another school? If the Stone kid would have been at Mohawk this past season or ends up at upper next season doesn't mean he was recruited by either Dunn or Winslow. Maybe the kid (or parents) want him to go to a better school or play for what they perceive to be a better basketball program. Nothing illegal about that if it is done with in the rules of the OHSAA and the schools policies. You are assuming that all move-ins or transfers are Recruiting. They aren't! The "handshake" was a very bad look for the Vice President of the Ohio Coaches Association.
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Post by purefan on Dec 12, 2018 11:32:12 GMT -5
You were the one making the comparison of homegrown vs. move in, transfer, etc. "...Wynford, Carey & Mohawk are basketball programs made up of virtually all Home-Grown players. Crawford as stated previously is a program that has significantly benefitted and currently benefits from move-ins and transfers." is what you said. Where's your stats? When stats were provided, you were proved wrong. Once again, you then changed your narrative. Now move-ins and transfers don't count if they're no good. Better call OHSAA and tell them to change their formula. Your credibility drops with every change in your narrative. fbfan, proved wrong? Never said that "move-ins or transfers don't count if they are no good" I pointed out that Wynfords move-ins and transfers have not helped the basketball program become successful. Crawford's move-ins and transfers have dramatically helped their programs success. This narrative is very credible Here are the stats in the form of names... Jury, Metcalf, Entenmann, Shell, McCreary x 2, Schaum, Fenner, Feichtner, etc... All move-ins or transfers. How many were recruited? How many recruited? ZERO.... unless you count our fine facilities and reputation as recruiters. And metcalf dad was our super, that’s a strech at best. Keep reaching for that rope.
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Post by purefan on Dec 12, 2018 11:34:14 GMT -5
You guys are talking about a thing that in the old days, (before the OHSAA had to get all P.C.) would have been a blatant case of illegal recruiting. Can't believe some of you are worried about a handshake. How is it "illegal recruiting" if a player from another school wants to change schools and move or transfer to another school? If the Stone kid would have been at Mohawk this past season or ends up at upper next season doesn't mean he was recruited by either Dunn or Winslow. Maybe the kid (or parents) want him to go to a better school or play for what they perceive to be a better basketball program. Nothing illegal about that if it is done with in the rules of the OHSAA and the schools policies. You are assuming that all move-ins or transfers are Recruiting. They aren't! The "handshake" was a very bad look for the Vice President of the Ohio Coaches Association. You just answered your own accusations of cc. I think you found that rope.
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Post by fbfan on Dec 12, 2018 11:43:40 GMT -5
You guys are talking about a thing that in the old days, (before the OHSAA had to get all P.C.) would have been a blatant case of illegal recruiting. Can't believe some of you are worried about a handshake. How is it "illegal recruiting" if a player from another school wants to change schools and move or transfer to another school? If the Stone kid would have been at Mohawk this past season or ends up at upper next season doesn't mean he was recruited by either Dunn or Winslow. Maybe the kid (or parents) want him to go to a better school or play for what they perceive to be a better basketball program. Nothing illegal about that if it is done with in the rules of the OHSAA and the schools policies. You are assuming that all move-ins or transfers are Recruiting. They aren't! The "handshake" was a very bad look for the Vice President of the Ohio Coaches Association. Poor reading comprehension. My post you quoted was about a varsity to varsity transfer, not a middle school move-in. You also missed the phrase "old days". Look it up, OHSAA made the assumption that it was recruiting and the parents had to PROVE the move wasn't for athletic purposes. Just moving wasn't good enough.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 12, 2018 11:45:15 GMT -5
How is it "illegal recruiting" if a player from another school wants to change schools and move or transfer to another school? If the Stone kid would have been at Mohawk this past season or ends up at upper next season doesn't mean he was recruited by either Dunn or Winslow. Maybe the kid (or parents) want him to go to a better school or play for what they perceive to be a better basketball program. Nothing illegal about that if it is done with in the rules of the OHSAA and the schools policies. You are assuming that all move-ins or transfers are Recruiting. They aren't! The "handshake" was a very bad look for the Vice President of the Ohio Coaches Association. You just answered your own accusations of cc. I think you found that rope. Just pointing out facts. Crawford (or better known as CCCC). It is okay for CCCC to get move-in or transfers (or as fbfan assumes Recruits) but heaven forbid one of the other N10 schools have kids move-in or transfer. And I think Sheldon by his actions after the game found the rope.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 12, 2018 11:47:49 GMT -5
How is it "illegal recruiting" if a player from another school wants to change schools and move or transfer to another school? If the Stone kid would have been at Mohawk this past season or ends up at upper next season doesn't mean he was recruited by either Dunn or Winslow. Maybe the kid (or parents) want him to go to a better school or play for what they perceive to be a better basketball program. Nothing illegal about that if it is done with in the rules of the OHSAA and the schools policies. You are assuming that all move-ins or transfers are Recruiting. They aren't! The "handshake" was a very bad look for the Vice President of the Ohio Coaches Association. Poor reading comprehension. My post you quoted was about a varsity to varsity transfer, not a middle school move-in. You also missed the phrase "old days". Look it up, OHSAA made the assumption that it was recruiting and the parents had to PROVE the move wasn't for athletic purposes. Just moving wasn't good enough. By the above, Crawford would have had a lot "proving" to do over the past 10-12 years, if it were the "old days".
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 12, 2018 11:52:38 GMT -5
How is it "illegal recruiting" if a player from another school wants to change schools and move or transfer to another school? If the Stone kid would have been at Mohawk this past season or ends up at upper next season doesn't mean he was recruited by either Dunn or Winslow. Maybe the kid (or parents) want him to go to a better school or play for what they perceive to be a better basketball program. Nothing illegal about that if it is done with in the rules of the OHSAA and the schools policies. You are assuming that all move-ins or transfers are Recruiting. They aren't! The "handshake" was a very bad look for the Vice President of the Ohio Coaches Association. Poor reading comprehension. My post you quoted was about a varsity to varsity transfer, not a middle school move-in. You also missed the phrase "old days". Look it up, OHSAA made the assumption that it was recruiting and the parents had to PROVE the move wasn't for athletic purposes. Just moving wasn't good enough. And your reading comprehension is no better... as I have been stating all along about move-ins and transfers (or as you call them Recruits) affecting the schools program from MS, JH & HS. In reality, the most frequent period for these move-ins or transfers to take place is in 6th thru 8th grade. Just because those occur then doesn't mean they don't have a huge affect in a few years on the varsity basketball program. Maybe even more than a varsity to varsity transfer.
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Post by fbfan on Dec 12, 2018 11:53:28 GMT -5
You were the one making the comparison of homegrown vs. move in, transfer, etc. "...Wynford, Carey & Mohawk are basketball programs made up of virtually all Home-Grown players. Crawford as stated previously is a program that has significantly benefitted and currently benefits from move-ins and transfers." is what you said. Where's your stats? When stats were provided, you were proved wrong. Once again, you then changed your narrative. Now move-ins and transfers don't count if they're no good. Better call OHSAA and tell them to change their formula. Your credibility drops with every change in your narrative. fbfan, proved wrong? Never said that "move-ins or transfers don't count if they are no good" I pointed out that Wynfords move-ins and transfers have not helped the basketball program become successful. Crawford's move-ins and transfers have dramatically helped their programs success. This narrative is very credibleHere are the stats in the form of names... Jury, Metcalf, Entenmann, Shell, McCreary x 2, Schaum, Fenner, Feichtner, etc... All move-ins or transfers. How many were recruited? Yep, the narrative is very creditable. Good school attracts them at a young age, and good coaching at all levels. No need to get players off of rival's rosters or try to lure a good coach away from a rival. I can't help the fact that the players that make up Wynford's 14 CB count do not help their program.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 12, 2018 11:56:10 GMT -5
fbfan, proved wrong? Never said that "move-ins or transfers don't count if they are no good" I pointed out that Wynfords move-ins and transfers have not helped the basketball program become successful. Crawford's move-ins and transfers have dramatically helped their programs success. This narrative is very credible Here are the stats in the form of names... Jury, Metcalf, Entenmann, Shell, McCreary x 2, Schaum, Fenner, Feichtner, etc... All move-ins or transfers. How many were recruited? How many recruited? ZERO.... unless you count our fine facilities and reputation as recruiters. And metcalf dad was our super, that’s a strech at best. Keep reaching for that rope. I will keep reaching for the rope but it is around your neck. And I am afraid to pull it any tighter.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 12, 2018 12:00:20 GMT -5
fbfan, proved wrong? Never said that "move-ins or transfers don't count if they are no good" I pointed out that Wynfords move-ins and transfers have not helped the basketball program become successful. Crawford's move-ins and transfers have dramatically helped their programs success. This narrative is very credibleHere are the stats in the form of names... Jury, Metcalf, Entenmann, Shell, McCreary x 2, Schaum, Fenner, Feichtner, etc... All move-ins or transfers. How many were recruited? Yep, the narrative is very creditable. Good school attracts them at a young age, and good coaching at all levels. No need to get players off of rival's rosters or try to lure a good coach away from a rival. I can't help the fact that the players that make up Wynford's 14 CB count do not help their program. Me too. Wish those kids that counted toward our CB actually helped the program. My guess is that those players reasons for attending Wynford were not for sports alone.
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Hagen
All Conference
Posts: 288
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Post by Hagen on Dec 12, 2018 12:38:46 GMT -5
These same enrollees could of went elsewhere and not seen near the success as they did at a great school like cc. N10 School Districts' <ODE Report Cards>:(Sorted alphabetically within the tiers) Buckeye Central - B Seneca East - B Upper Sandusky - B Carey - C Colonel Crawford - C Mohawk - C Ridgedale - C Wynford - C Bucyrus - D Again, these are for entire school districts, not just high schools. Also, private-parochial "feeder schools" are not included.
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bigox
All Conference
Posts: 449
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Post by bigox on Dec 12, 2018 12:52:01 GMT -5
Can I say again I love stats!!!
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Post by purefan on Dec 12, 2018 13:35:23 GMT -5
These same enrollees could of went elsewhere and not seen near the success as they did at a great school like cc. N10 School Districts' <ODE Report Cards>:(Sorted alphabetically within the tiers) Buckeye Central - B Seneca East - B Upper Sandusky - B Carey - C Colonel Crawford - C Mohawk - C Ridgedale - C Wynford - C Bucyrus - D Again, these are for entire school districts, not just high schools. Also, private-parochial "feeder schools" are not included. So you are relating the amount of success a pereson accomplishes to the ode report card. I feel for ya
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 12, 2018 13:40:11 GMT -5
N10 School Districts' <ODE Report Cards>:(Sorted alphabetically within the tiers) Buckeye Central - B Seneca East - B Upper Sandusky - BColonel Crawford - CCarey - C Mohawk - C Ridgedale - C Wynford - C Bucyrus - D Again, these are for entire school districts, not just high schools. Also, private-parochial "feeder schools" are not included. So you are relating the amount of success a pereson accomplishes to the ode report card. I feel for ya Wow.. Who's reaching for the ROPE now purefan? One of the reasons they probably received a C was for not shaking the ODE Representatives hands when they left the school.
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Post by purefan on Dec 12, 2018 13:48:19 GMT -5
So you are relating the amount of success a pereson accomplishes to the ode report card. I feel for ya Wow.. Who's reaching for the ROPE now purefan? One of the reasons they probably received a C was for not shaking the ODE Representatives hands when they left the school. Appears to me it’s still you. 🤝
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Post by fbfan on Dec 12, 2018 16:38:08 GMT -5
A debate about the merits of the ODE report card could fill 50 pages if you want to get into that. The thing I look at is, are there more parents open enrolling kids to a school district or from a school district.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 12, 2018 16:46:58 GMT -5
A debate about the merits of the ODE report card could fill 50 pages if you want to get into that. The thing I look at is, are there more parents open enrolling kids to a school district or from a school district. Crawford has an advantage over other N10 schools due the schools location as it is very convenient for kids from Crestline, Galion & Bucyrus to open enroll. Wynford’s open enrollment kids mainly come from Bucyrus.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 12, 2018 18:20:15 GMT -5
N10 School Districts' <ODE Report Cards>:(Sorted alphabetically within the tiers) Buckeye Central - B Seneca East - B Upper Sandusky - B Carey - C Colonel Crawford - C Mohawk - C Ridgedale - C Wynford - C Bucyrus - D Again, these are for entire school districts, not just high schools. Also, private-parochial "feeder schools" are not included. So you are relating the amount of success a pereson accomplishes to the ode report card. I feel for ya A pereson[sic] sometimes open enrolls to a school with a worse report card thinking it will be less competitive academically.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 12, 2018 18:24:34 GMT -5
Stop whining about "recruiting" and do something about it. It is illegal.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 12, 2018 18:29:16 GMT -5
I feel what your putting down! Absolutely that would have given the warriors a big edge. Those seniors and an active mobile big man. They are a good team alone add that much more size and it would have been fun to see I think mohawk is the real deal. We will find out soon enough. They have a great class of athletes there right now. If Carey or the Stone family were good at recruiting they wouldn't have to move to another school, they would be getting other players to Carey to play around the Stone kid.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 12, 2018 18:38:58 GMT -5
NONE of CC's players EVER arrived from a rival's starting varsity lineup. Forgetting will be anything but convenient. Remember your own words: "Recruiting to me is when the players show up after Junior High or between 8th & 9th grade. And it is easily deducted that they showed up for basketball." As discussed at length on another thread. The McCreary kid did not “show up for basketball” in Upper. According to all the information available the kid’s move to Upper was not about or solely for basketball. Basketball was a bi-product and the move was out of necessity for the family. By all accounts the kid did not want to move or change schools. That being said. Upper, Wynford, Carey & Mohawk are basketball programs made up of virtually all Home-Grown players. Crawford as stated previously is a program that has significantly benefitted and currently benefits from move-ins and transfers. If Upper would have the Stone kid from Carey move-in and Winslow’s boys transfer in then the Upper proram would become similar to Crawford’s. The McCreary family could have moved to Upper and their kid could still be playing at CC if that is where he wanted to play.
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Post by royalballdad on Dec 12, 2018 21:32:20 GMT -5
NONE of CC's players EVER arrived from a rival's starting varsity lineup. Forgetting will be anything but convenient. Remember your own words: "Recruiting to me is when the players show up after Junior High or between 8th & 9th grade. And it is easily deducted that they showed up for basketball." As discussed at length on another thread. The McCreary kid did not “show up for basketball” in Upper. According to all the information available the kid’s move to Upper was not about or solely for basketball. Basketball was a bi-product and the move was out of necessity for the family. By all accounts the kid did not want to move or change schools. That being said. Upper, Wynford, Carey & Mohawk are basketball programs made up of virtually all Home-Grown players. Crawford as stated previously is a program that has significantly benefitted and currently benefits from move-ins and transfers. If Upper would have the Stone kid from Carey move-in and Winslow’s boys transfer in then the Upper proram would become similar to Crawford’s. The McCreary family could have moved to Upper and their kid could still be playing at CC if that is where he wanted to play. 30+ mile drive. With that section of 30 being very bad in the winter. 17 yr old kid No way. The family lives less than a 1/2 mile from the Upper HS.
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Post by oldno72 on Dec 12, 2018 21:39:27 GMT -5
I have enjoyed this post for a couple of years but now want to put my “2 Cents in
if you go to the Ohio Dept of Education website, you will see that Wynford gets about 200 kids a year from Bucyrus and Crawford gets about 75 a year. Undoubtably these are probably some of Bucyrus better kids, which has to help both Wynford and Crawford’s athletic teams and their test scores. Furthermore, it makes it very difficult to for Bucyrus to compete when these two schools drain their resources.
I graduated from BHS in 1980, and I am sure that things are different there now. I have not lived in Crawford County since. However, I am sure that Bucyrus still have some good kids, but realistically, they will continue to struggle to compete. People like to bad mouth Bucyrus, but put yourself in their shoes...you lose your best and brightest to your neighbors/ rivals and then get criticized for being lousy.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 12, 2018 23:54:59 GMT -5
The McCreary family could have moved to Upper and their kid could still be playing at CC if that is where he wanted to play. 30+ mile drive. With that section of 30 being very bad in the winter. 17 yr old kid No way. The family lives less than a 1/2 mile from the Upper HS. How far is it from Bucyrus to Ontario? Two lane curvy 314 is worse than any part of four lane 30 in the winter.
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Post by fbfan on Dec 13, 2018 6:38:34 GMT -5
Stop whining about "recruiting" and do something about it. It is illegal. There's really not much to be done the way "recruiting" is handled now days. With the lax rules OHSAA has been forced to adopt, a coach only has to sit back and smile. The AAU people do all the work ( they used to be called "boosters") and can't be touched. I can't really blame any coach for this, you have to play the game under the rules in place or you fall behind.
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Post by fbfan on Dec 13, 2018 6:41:45 GMT -5
I have enjoyed this post for a couple of years but now want to put my “2 Cents in if you go to the Ohio Dept of Education website, you will see that Wynford gets about 200 kids a year from Bucyrus and Crawford gets about 75 a year. Undoubtably these are probably some of Bucyrus better kids, which has to help both Wynford and Crawford’s athletic teams and their test scores. Furthermore, it makes it very difficult to for Bucyrus to compete when these two schools drain their resources. I graduated from BHS in 1980, and I am sure that things are different there now. I have not lived in Crawford County since. However, I am sure that Bucyrus still have some good kids, but realistically, they will continue to struggle to compete. People like to bad mouth Bucyrus, but put yourself in their shoes...you lose your best and brightest to your neighbors/ rivals and then get criticized for being lousy. Interesting numbers, but another poster claims that virtually none of those 200 help Wynford's athletic teams.
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Post by fbfan on Dec 13, 2018 6:58:24 GMT -5
NONE of CC's players EVER arrived from a rival's starting varsity lineup. Forgetting will be anything but convenient. Remember your own words: "Recruiting to me is when the players show up after Junior High or between 8th & 9th grade. And it is easily deducted that they showed up for basketball." As discussed at length on another thread. The McCreary kid did not “show up for basketball” in Upper. According to all the information available the kid’s move to Upper was not about or solely for basketball. Basketball was a bi-product and the move was out of necessity for the family. By all accounts the kid did not want to move or change schools. That being said. Upper, Wynford, Carey & Mohawk are basketball programs made up of virtually all Home-Grown players. Crawford as stated previously is a program that has significantly benefitted and currently benefits from move-ins and transfers. If Upper would have the Stone kid from Carey move-in and Winslow’s boys transfer in then the Upper proram would become similar to Crawford’s. The McCreary family could have moved to Upper and their kid could still be playing at CC if that is where he wanted to play. Dad made the choice. The kid also wanted to play football sophomore year CC, actually went out and was on the team in the preseason but then quit for some reason. I heard in the stands that it was after dad watched him play in a scrimmage and saw a collision he was involved in.
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