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FC Week 4
Sept 21, 2019 19:50:55 GMT -5
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Post by maplecityjake on Sept 21, 2019 19:50:55 GMT -5
St Paul with another score, 27-8 5:27 4th.
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FC Week 4
Sept 21, 2019 20:03:44 GMT -5
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Post by maplecityjake on Sept 21, 2019 20:03:44 GMT -5
TD Flyers, injury timeout prior to PAT
PAT good, 34-8 1:23 4th
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FC Week 4
Sept 21, 2019 20:07:42 GMT -5
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Post by maplecityjake on Sept 21, 2019 20:07:42 GMT -5
Final 34-8 Flyers!
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Post by 1belowthepressbox on Sept 21, 2019 20:46:56 GMT -5
Really good game. Final doesn't tell the story. I think Plymouth did match SPs physicality. It was a dog fight. Imo, Plymouth shot themselves in the foot with 3 or 4 turnovers and the missed coverage assignment on the long pass at the start of the fourth. SP has always been a great fourth quarter team and proved it again. Hats of to both teams, it was a fun game to watch. Looking forward to Western and SP.
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FC Week 4
Sept 21, 2019 21:17:01 GMT -5
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Post by heavydrop7 on Sept 21, 2019 21:17:01 GMT -5
Nice to see Plymouth hasn’t changed, they’re still the same ankle twisting, ball grabbing trash that they were in the 80’s and 90’s. It’s the community mindset. Great game Flyers. (Just to be clear, the ball grabbing was in my time).
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Post by maplecityjake on Sept 21, 2019 21:20:26 GMT -5
Nice to see Plymouth hasn’t changed, they’re still the same ankle twisting, ball grabbing trash that they were in the 80’s and 90’s. It’s the community mindset. Great game Flyers. I was wondering if something was going on because a couple Flyer players seemed to take issue after a play, Butler in particular.
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FC Week 4
Sept 21, 2019 21:25:30 GMT -5
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Post by heavydrop7 on Sept 21, 2019 21:25:30 GMT -5
Nice to see Plymouth hasn’t changed, they’re still the same ankle twisting, ball grabbing trash that they were in the 80’s and 90’s. It’s the community mindset. Great game Flyers. I was wondering if something was going on because a couple Flyer players seemed to take issue after a play, Butler in particular. Yes, and Yes. I always hated playing them because of the after the whistle activities. Talking trash is part of the game, the the other stuff is uncalled for, but that’s them. I’ ll PM you Jake.
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FC Week 4
Sept 22, 2019 7:16:31 GMT -5
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Post by 1belowthepressbox on Sept 22, 2019 7:16:31 GMT -5
Pretty harsh words against Plymouth. From what I remember, SP was the only one with a personal foul last night? Chop block I believe? Assuming it was how SP defensive lineman dive into the offensive lineman's knees and grab? Not sure that's legal. Idk, not a ref.
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Post by Merton on Sept 22, 2019 7:57:44 GMT -5
I was wondering if something was going on because a couple Flyer players seemed to take issue after a play, Butler in particular. Yes, and Yes. I always hated playing them because of the after the whistle activities. Talking trash is part of the game, the the other stuff is uncalled for, but that’s them. I’ ll PM you Jake. Ha, yes...it seems there's always a team or two that plays that way. But I was surprised to see it from the Plymouth 7th and 8th girls basketball teams last season! Never fun to play them...but a great feeling beating them.
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Post by Merton on Sept 22, 2019 8:02:51 GMT -5
Pretty harsh words against Plymouth. From what I remember, SP was the only one with a personal foul last night? Chop block I believe? Assuming it was how SP defensive lineman dive into the offensive lineman's knees and grab? Not sure that's legal. Idk, not a ref. Yeah, that was a very curious call. I was listening on the radio and the announcers said they had never seen that called on a defense before. Regardless, its a call that's made to prevent injury...as you said, for a leg chop. If it weren't for that call, Plymouth probably doesn't score.
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Post by jmorgret07 on Sept 22, 2019 8:17:23 GMT -5
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FC Week 4
Sept 22, 2019 8:18:28 GMT -5
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Post by heavydrop7 on Sept 22, 2019 8:18:28 GMT -5
Pretty harsh words against Plymouth. From what I remember, SP was the only one with a personal foul last night? Chop block I believe? Assuming it was how SP defensive lineman dive into the offensive lineman's knees and grab? Not sure that's legal. Idk, not a ref. Harsh words? No, they know what they are. Don’t believe that’s legal, but neither is LBs chopping lead blockers at the second level. They obviously practice that way because it was second nature to do just that in the game. After watching the film, these refs must be blind. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, and that’s the way they should’ve called the game. Heck the only reason they scored was with assistance from the referees including that BS personal foul call, 30 NSP penalty yards on that drive.
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FC Week 4
Sept 22, 2019 8:21:39 GMT -5
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Post by heavydrop7 on Sept 22, 2019 8:21:39 GMT -5
Pretty harsh words against Plymouth. From what I remember, SP was the only one with a personal foul last night? Chop block I believe? Assuming it was how SP defensive lineman dive into the offensive lineman's knees and grab? Not sure that's legal. Idk, not a ref. Yeah, that was a very curious call. I was listening on the radio and the announcers said they had never seen that called on a defense before. Regardless, its a call that's made to prevent injury...as you said, for a leg chop. If it weren't for that call, Plymouth probably doesn't score. You are 100% correct they do not score without that call, The thing is Plymouth linebackers were doing that same thing all night to Saint Pauls lead blockers, with no calls. My thing is if you’re not gonna call it one way why call it the other. I’m not asking the referees to be perfect because nobody is just be fair and even. Overall I’m happy with the outcome we won they lost, end of story.
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Post by maplecityjake on Sept 22, 2019 9:18:13 GMT -5
I'll be honest; never heard chopblock called on defense as well. It was critical as it was 4th and long at that point.
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Post by maplecityjake on Sept 22, 2019 9:58:53 GMT -5
calpreps.com: St. Paul 31 Plymouth 14 Drew Pasteur: St. Paul by 17 Houseworth's: St. Paul by 27 Houseworth about nailed it.
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Post by 1belowthepressbox on Sept 22, 2019 11:09:22 GMT -5
From my understanding, the rule is offensive and defensive lineman can cut if in the tackle box (within 3 yds ). Merton, you are right, LBs taking out lead blockers below the waist is illegal because it's out of the 3 yards.. With that being said, I think the complaint with SP is that when they roothog, they grab offensive lineman's legs. That is illegal, it's holding. I remember hearing Monroeville coaches screaming about that a few years ago in their week ten game. So maybe they do? Idk, never really paid much attention. I will from now on though.
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Post by heavydrop7 on Sept 22, 2019 11:32:27 GMT -5
From my understanding, the rule is offensive and defensive lineman can cut if in the tackle box (within 3 yds ). Merton, you are right, LBs taking out lead blockers below the waist is illegal because it's out of the 3 yards.. With that being said, I think the complaint with SP is that when they roothog, they grab offensive lineman's legs. That is illegal, it's holding. I remember hearing Monroeville coaches screaming about that a few years ago in their week ten game. So maybe they do? Idk, never really paid much attention. I will from now on though. Agree 100%,on the play in question last night, #55 lined up at d-end and went below the waist on a lead blocker while still in the box. IDK where that would fall in terms of legality, but it should be illegal as it’s a safety thing, so not a bad call in my book. What makes it BS is the Plymouth LB’s were doing the same to NSP lead blockers all night, and not one call. If the refs would’ve ignored it, it would have been fourth and long. The player asked the ref if he was in the tackle box, and the ref responded with “there is no tackle box in high school.” So IDK. they still would’ve went for it, and maybe got it, but that’s neither here nor there cause that’s not what happened . Overall I think the refs did a good job , they are humans too, and nobody is perfect.
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FC Week 4
Sept 22, 2019 11:55:45 GMT -5
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Post by 1belowthepressbox on Sept 22, 2019 11:55:45 GMT -5
For sake of neutral conversation, were'nt SP lineman doing that to Plymouths Fullback when they dove through as he tried leading as a blocker on sweeps, etc?
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Post by Merton on Sept 22, 2019 12:01:02 GMT -5
From my understanding, the rule is offensive and defensive lineman can cut if in the tackle box (within 3 yds ). Merton, you are right, LBs taking out lead blockers below the waist is illegal because it's out of the 3 yards.. With that being said, I think the complaint with SP is that when they roothog, they grab offensive lineman's legs. That is illegal, it's holding. I remember hearing Monroeville coaches screaming about that a few years ago in their week ten game. So maybe they do? Idk, never really paid much attention. I will from now on though. Yeah...chopping is one thing, but I think if an o-lineman is blocking you, you can grab, push or pull to get to the runner. Back in the day, and I mean way back in the day, when were roothogging (is that a word?) on the goal line, we were taught to bear crawl low and just grab at legs. The idea was trip up the QB or RB.
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Post by heavydrop7 on Sept 22, 2019 12:44:01 GMT -5
For sake of neutral conversation, were'nt SP lineman doing that to Plymouths Fullback when they dove through as he tried leading as a blocker on sweeps, etc? As i was reviewing the tape it seemed to be the preferred move of the night. Sometimes it was more of the 2 huge linemen engulfing the NSP lineman and just falling on top of them. This was #79 of Plymouth’s only move all night, and #70 wasn’t much better. Found several very blatant chopping of an engaged player by Plymouth’s offense on the NSP defense. Those are a big no-no. Found several Plymouth lead blockers chopping NSP LBs outside of the box. Found several NSP D- linemen cutting at Plymouth FB’s in the box. Found several plays where a Plymouth defense of player cuts a NSP lead blocker way out of the box, #25 of Plymouth in particular. But this is exactly my argument. Why call that call, especially right then when they needed it the most. The play in question was hardly a chop, there were far better examples that could have been called. I am not going to differentiate between in the box or out of the box because I don’t know what’s legal, or as this ref states, that there is even a box in high school football. In my book chopping in the box is not dirty but anything outside the box is dirty football, but it should all be illegal. I’ll let a ref weigh in on that. I thought I knew what was legal in that a defensive lineman could cut lead blockers in the backfield or offensive linemen, but according to this ref last night I was wrong . Even the guys on the radio said they’ve never heard of such a call. Just call the game fair across-the-board for the whole game that’s all the fans ask for.
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Post by gibby23 on Sept 23, 2019 8:50:47 GMT -5
After watching the Plymouth-St.Paul game I could see Plymouth winning out, with the possible exception being WR. This was only a 13-8 St.Paul lead to start the 4th quarter. If I were Plymouth I would throw a few more passes just to keep the defense honest and make that run game even more effective.
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FC Week 4
Sept 23, 2019 13:44:28 GMT -5
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Post by maplecityjake on Sept 23, 2019 13:44:28 GMT -5
After watching the Plymouth-St.Paul game I could see Plymouth winning out, with the possible exception being WR. This was only a 13-8 St.Paul lead to start the 4th quarter. If I were Plymouth I would throw a few more passes just to keep the defense honest and make that run game even more effective. Speaking of which, I was a bit surprised Plymouth continued to pound the rock when St. Paul lead was increasing.
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Post by heavydrop7 on Sept 23, 2019 16:57:59 GMT -5
After watching the Plymouth-St.Paul game I could see Plymouth winning out, with the possible exception being WR. This was only a 13-8 St.Paul lead to start the 4th quarter. If I were Plymouth I would throw a few more passes just to keep the defense honest and make that run game even more effective. Speaking of which, I was a bit surprised Plymouth continued to pound the rock when St. Paul lead was increasing. If they were going to pass, it would have to be quick stuff. Gotta have quick feet to pass block, not exactly their MO. I thought we’d see some rolling pass plays, but no. Did anyone happen to catch their goal line D. It’s hilarious. The 2 big guys immediately lay down along the line as soon as NSP snapped the ball. I was cracking up 😂 😆😂😆😂.
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Post by titletown on Sept 24, 2019 6:43:08 GMT -5
I love hearing the St. Paul people talking about the officials.... first of all I am not a Plymouth or St. Paul fan as I am just a football fan of the area. With that, I was at the game Saturday and it amazes me how St. Paul doesn't get called for holding on every play because they do it and it's obvious. Take the outside run by #26 for the first score... did any St. Paul fan see the holding by the lineman on the edge??? Better yet did anyone see the full blown tackle on the Plymouth Free Safety down field, and yet no call? I have been to a lot of Firelands Conference games over the last 20 years but it looks to me that the officials know St. Paul is a great program and assume they don't hold.
Heavydrop7- Since you have the opportunity to watch the tape, please review it again and you will see exactly what I am talking about.
As for the game, it was a very good physical game, closer than the score said. Good luck to both teams the rest of the way!
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Post by heavydrop7 on Sept 24, 2019 8:57:33 GMT -5
I love hearing the St. Paul people talking about the officials.... first of all I am not a Plymouth or St. Paul fan as I am just a football fan of the area. With that, I was at the game Saturday and it amazes me how St. Paul doesn't get called for holding on every play because they do it and it's obvious. Take the outside run by #26 for the first score... did any St. Paul fan see the holding by the lineman on the edge??? Better yet did anyone see the full blown tackle on the Plymouth Free Safety down field, and yet no call? I have been to a lot of Firelands Conference games over the last 20 years but it looks to me that the officials know St. Paul is a great program and assume they don't hold. Heavydrop7- Since you have the opportunity to watch the tape, please review it again and you will see exactly what I am talking about. As for the game, it was a very good physical game, closer than the score said. Good luck to both teams the rest of the way! Dude, in high school football, there could be a penalty called on every play. Since you want to whine about NSP holding, I seen a lot of Plymouth holding as well. Pretty sure laying on top of a player and pinning them to the ground constitutes holding, laying across the goal line and using your legs to tackle constitutes tripping, etc. etc. etc. Holding usually doesn’t cause serious injuries, chopping on the other hand can be a career ender, and they got one of ours Friday night, he has knee surgery this week. Good physical game, yeah right, physical maybe, but no good was intended. i’m sure you could go to any football game on a Friday night anywhere in this country can find plenty of uncalled penalties . Both teams were doing lots of illegal things. We would be all night if the refs called every penalty they see. Consistency is the goal, and for those refs to call that call when they did helped Plymouth. I’m not watching the tape again, I seen it the first time. You must’ve failed to read my posts thoroughly, I clearly state that the refs did a good job they’re only human. My original gripe was with the dirty play, and after the whistle shenanigans. You saying the officials assume Saint Paul doesn’t hold means you probably know very little about officiating or don’t know a ref. If you do know a ref ask them, all officials know there’s a penalty on every play, the key word is consistency.
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Post by maplecityjake on Sept 24, 2019 9:34:11 GMT -5
Heavydrop beat me to it; technically, the zebras can call holding, for example, on every play.
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Post by titletown on Sept 24, 2019 10:48:53 GMT -5
You guys are 100% correct however there are some play-side holding that occur and not called for whatever reason. I used the TD run from Saturday night because it was so bad that I felt Plymouth got cheated on that play. Heavydrop7, have you re-watched the tape yet on that play??? When you do please tell me what you honestly see! This was not an attack on anyone or any official however this post got to how cheap Plymouth was and the holding Plymouth was doing yet St. Paul is notorious for holding that never gets called (play-side or backside) and especially when you play at their place.
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Post by heavydrop7 on Sept 24, 2019 12:35:40 GMT -5
You guys are 100% correct however there are some play-side holding that occur and not called for whatever reason. I used the TD run from Saturday night because it was so bad that I felt Plymouth got cheated on that play. Heavydrop7, have you re-watched the tape yet on that play??? When you do please tell me what you honestly see! This was not an attack on anyone or any official however this post got to how cheap Plymouth was and the holding Plymouth was doing yet St. Paul is notorious for holding that never gets called (play-side or backside) and especially when you play at their place. The TD run would have been a very poor example of a hold. NSP# 51 on Plymouth’s #4 DE. Both remain parallel and run for about 4 steps while locked and facing each other, then #51 releases #4. The Plymouth defender hand no chance of catching #26, as he crashed while abandoning outside contain. #4 crashing is what lead to them being locked up to begin with. The tackle of the safety looked like a penalty, they both look equally locked up and when they tripped over the Saint Paul blocker and the Plymouth defender both landed on their sides. however if you’re letting them play as refs (meaning not calling every little nick nack foul) then it’s a good no call as it was clearly away from the play and had no impact on the TD. I’m not saying that NSP players never hold, you just picked the wrong play to use as an example. I have no reason to lie to you I’m a Monroeville eagle.
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Post by gibby23 on Sept 24, 2019 12:38:35 GMT -5
Heavydrop, was it Moffit who had surgery this week? That will be a huge loss if it was him.
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Post by titletown on Sept 25, 2019 6:23:28 GMT -5
Heavydrop7- I believed when watching the game, the Free Safety was on a good angle to make a play. The St. Paul player put both hands on the Plymouth defenders outside shoulders and was holding at the point until he took him down. That play was one the I remembered from the top of my head. I have seen St. Paul play often including the playoffs and one thing I have noticed is that anytime they pull a guard or tackle they usually always go to the outside of the legs of a defender. The other thing I have noticed is that if the ball is going right, the right side will grab the defenders right shoulder (which is away from the official) and pull to them while punching the left shoulder to get the defender turned. I understand that there can be a penalty on every play, but the issue I hate seeing is when it is play-side allowing holes to become bigger than what they would be.
So if a Monroeville fan, what's your take on the Eagles so far this year after a close game with a good South Central team? Also how to you have tape of the St. Paul vs Plymouth game?
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