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Post by buckeyekid on Dec 29, 2019 0:51:37 GMT -5
A couple play calls were shaky , but we were in position to still win in spite of serious one sided big calls that all went Clemsons play.
The targeting call saved Clemsons assss. Changed everything. OSU outplayed Clemson for 75 % of the game.
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 29, 2019 6:40:52 GMT -5
With all do respect, you're an idiot. Tell me why? We got out coached plain and simple. If you think otherwise, you didnt pay attention to the game. A 16-0 lead, which should have been at least 24-0, and we get beat. C'mon man! The stats don't lie. We were in perfect position to win this one at the end. This was not a coaching error. The key play of the game, that turned the momentum and entire complexion of the game was the subjective flag for 'targeting'. It would have been 4th and 19, with the Buckeyes in great field position. Instead, the targeting set-up the scoring drive, aided by the pass interference penalty. Clemson DB's were holding all night long and were basically ignored, most of the night. The bogus fumble reversal kept this from being a comfortable Buckeye win, Justyn Ross had firm, two hand grip on the ball, took 4 strides and the FUMBLE was direct result of Jordan Fuller, using good hands to strip it away. The replay officials gave no credit to Fullers great efforts to create the fumble. The easy pick-six that was dropped, could have swung this one to a rather lopsided affair. We witnessed two great teams and two great coaches, banging heads from start to finish. Let's not diminish one of the greatest games of the entire season, by playing a lame, blame-game.
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Post by crimson5 on Dec 29, 2019 7:50:59 GMT -5
Tell me why? We got out coached plain and simple. If you think otherwise, you didnt pay attention to the game. A 16-0 lead, which should have been at least 24-0, and we get beat. C'mon man! The stats don't lie. We were in perfect position to win this one at the end. This was not a coaching error. The key play of the game, that turned the momentum and entire complexion of the game was the subjective flag for 'targeting'. It would have been 4th and 19, with the Buckeyes in great field position. Instead, the targeting set-up the scoring drive, aided by the pass interference penalty. Clemson DB's were holding all night long and were basically ignored, most of the night. The bogus fumble reversal kept this from being a comfortable Buckeye win, Justyn Ross had firm, two hand grip on the ball, took 4 strides and the FUMBLE was direct result of Jordan Fuller, using good hands to strip it away. The replay officials gave no credit to Fullers great efforts to create the fumble. The easy pick-six that was dropped, could have swung this one to a rather lopsided affair. We witnessed two great teams and two great coaches, banging heads from start to finish. Let's not diminish one of the greatest games of the entire season, by playing a lame, blame-game. Ok, I've calmed down and slept on it. I can't argue with anything you said, other than the targeting call wasn't that subjective.
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Post by homewrecker on Dec 29, 2019 10:06:16 GMT -5
Targeting what BS
No $ht he went in with the intent to hit a player larger than himself as hard as he could with intent to sack him. I mean come on isn't that his job. Was it his fault the QB tucked down right before the hit and made it helmet to helmet. Looked like a BS call to me got to let these guys play at some point.
The over turned fumble was also BS, he clearly caught that ball took 3-4 steps. the ball was not moving at all till the defender knocked it loose.
Also clearly saw Hill being pulled backwards in the endzone but no call.
The targeting call was clearly the game changer the Clemson Refs wanted hope LSU wins it all.
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Post by homewrecker on Dec 29, 2019 10:55:48 GMT -5
With all do respect, you're an idiot. Tell me why? We got out coached plain and simple. If you think otherwise, you didnt pay attention to the game. A 16-0 lead, which should have been at least 24-0, and we get beat. C'mon man! Personally I like Day, not his fault Dobbins didn't secure at TD pass and another that probably would have been a TD both inside the red zone. I'm sure Dobbins was used to running plays where he just needs to out stretch the ball across the plain of the end zone where in this case he should have pulled it in and secured the ball and don't let the ground knock it loose. He didn't need to worry about breaking the plain he was in with nobody around him he needs to learn from that. The second was a drop he had that would have made 2 TDs and a Field Goal on three trips to the red zone that doesn't happen against Clemson. For a first year coach he did a nice job I would think he's going to win a lot of games. Did he get out coached at any time in this game probably those were to great teams nicely coached on both sides that went back and forth. I don't have any complaints on teams or coaching either side just tiered of refs having such game changing blunders.
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Post by Buckeye2b on Dec 29, 2019 10:56:09 GMT -5
Agreed. If Sunshine doesn’t tuck his head it’s not targeting. I don’t want any kid getting hurt, but I’m tired of this rule. If incidental helmet to helmet is going to continue to be targeting, then next it will be running backs or lineman who can make helmet to helmet. It won’t be football, but padded team wrestling. There is no reward for agressive, tenacious football anymore, but rather a hugfest on the football field... no, no, no.... that might be construed as holding.
Yeah, I get it that my own sarcasm is too extreme, but this rule is tiresome and the penalty is too excessive for such a judgemental call. JM2C
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Post by fanofthegame on Dec 29, 2019 11:22:54 GMT -5
In cases of targeting if there is any question the officials are supposed to err on the side of the player. Most agree this was questionable at best. They aren’t supposed to take a game away from a young man unless it’s obvious.
In the case of the fumble it was ruled a fumble and TD. The video had to be obvious because the call had to be OVERTURNED.
Officials are going to make mistakes on bang bang plays. That’s why we use replay. No excuse for screwing up evaluating replays.
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Post by ronburgandy on Dec 29, 2019 12:04:40 GMT -5
Coach Day far exceeded expectations for this year. I think most OSU fans, including myself, would have never thought we’d even be in the playoffs this year. I’m excited for our future with him leading the way.
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 29, 2019 12:31:19 GMT -5
In cases of targeting if there is any question the officials are supposed to err on the side of the player. Most agree this was questionable at best. They aren’t supposed to take a game away from a young man unless it’s obvious. In the case of the fumble it was ruled a fumble and TD. The video had to be obvious because the call had to be OVERTURNED. Officials are going to make mistakes on bang bang plays. That’s why we use replay. No excuse for screwing up evaluating replays. I agree, they have taken the 'targeting' rule to extremes. What's doubly wrong with the new rule, there is no provisions for a player warning, with a set, escalated penalty. We are trying to reverse the effects of simple physics at work. Speed, trajectory, momentum and inertia are at play here and somehow all players are supposed to have the superhuman power to change all that in a millisecond. The game ejections are taking the extreme approach. Ejections should be limited to rare instances, when there is obvious intent on inflicting serious harm or injury on the opponent. Game officials know, full well, their punitive actions can impact or alter the outcome of the contest. Given that aspect, it is giving a lot of power to those making decisions off the field. I think it can and has been abused at times, but hard to prove. Without a doubt, Jack Tatum built his notoriety and reputation on his brutal hits on the ball carrier, receiver or QB. He earned the nickname 'hit man' and was the ultimate intimidator. That well earned title, followed him throughout his career. As far as I know, there were no fatalities or serious injuries coming from his style of play.
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Post by DrTorch on Dec 29, 2019 12:39:20 GMT -5
felt like the whole momentum shifted after the Dobbins' drops, which sucks because he was such a beast otherwise
tough loss, great season...Clemson remains the elusive White Whale and i really thought we had them this year
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 14:11:12 GMT -5
I think this replay official should be criminally investigated. I noticed how quickly the replay official was overturning the calls on the field, and not much discussion down to the field officials. The targeting could have been a 15 yard penalty only, Not an ejection. That was a clear fumble and TD return by OSU. When Dobbins ankle was be twisted and progress was stopped, No whistle, then got hit by 2 Clemson players, Dobbins was never the same since that point. I realize we had to overcome this SEC officiating crew, on top of beating Clemson. They were blatantly against Ohio State, And change the outcome of this game.The NCAA should never allow an SEC crew do a B1G game. I'd bet if it were a PAC 10 or Big 12 crew, There wouldn't be this must controversy. I hate the SEC, And Clemson. But, I do like Joe Burrows, Not sure who I want to win. I won't watch it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2019 14:38:44 GMT -5
There should be no conference affiliation of the officiating crews of the final 4 participants, And the championship game.
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Post by Buckeye2b on Dec 30, 2019 11:44:48 GMT -5
That was a speeding ticket for doing 26 in a 25 type of targeting call. Technically a correct call by the strictest letter of the law, but nowhere near the aggressive dirty type of hit that rule was put in place to outlaw, and total BS to be called in a situation that completely changes the complexion of a national semifinal game. I’m not trying to be a fickle fan and I don’t like bitching about referees all day long... blaming them is always a weak excuse, however I will admit they sure seemed to calling it tight on OSU. Over and above everything is that damn targeting call. I understand it to protect a receiver who becomes defenseless because he is reaching to catch a ball and that launching into helmet to helmet contact ( while it may be effective) can get a kid hurt. However, a QB scrambling... or moving/running in the offensive backfield is NOT defenseless. He is still a running back who can throw the ball. I want to see the LB that gets called on the helmet to helmet contact at the LOS when Dobbins come cruising off tackle. QB/TB/FB/HB?? Defenseless and helmet to helmet??? Wade hit him with the crown - stupid on his part because that’s a good way to crush a vertebrae - and at worst it should be the old “spearing” call. They have got to remove targeting or be able to at least confirm intent to some degree - launching, raising into the air to meet the head, direct frontal contact... but the incidental stuff needs to go. It’s akin to a face mask call... No one facemasks for a fifteen yarder, but when that head snaps back because fingers are in the mask, it’s pretty obvious. They video review the damn call... how hard is it really?
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Post by misterbreeze on Dec 30, 2019 13:00:28 GMT -5
Really tough pill to swallow. OSU won the major stats (first downs, rushing yds, passing yds, TOP) by a convincing margin but not the scoreboard. The two drops by JK were killers, should have been 24-0 and probably one possession away from putting it away. That deficit would have been a huge obstacle to overcome. The targeting and fumble over-turn were game changing calls by the refs. Even Herbie was questioning the fumble ruling. Despite all of that, OSU still had a great chance to win at the end. A final mistake did them in. Wish the D could have made that one last stop. I will root for Joe B in the final and could care less who wins.
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Post by cbus on Dec 30, 2019 13:38:01 GMT -5
Was the pass in the end zone to JK a drop? I thought Fields led him a bit too far.
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Post by DrTorch on Dec 30, 2019 17:47:42 GMT -5
he had the ball til he went to the ground it was just mishandled imho
total buzzkill man
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 30, 2019 20:12:24 GMT -5
The BIG difference in this game was Clemson had a QB with good wheels. Ohio State's QB only had one good wheel.
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Post by buckeyekid on Dec 30, 2019 20:34:27 GMT -5
Regarding targeting vs not targeting.
The OK vs LSU game had a prime example.
The one in the OSU vs CLEM game doesn't get called unless that kid lays on the ground extra long and Dabo crys to the Ref.
I agree with a number of things that were said on the thread. The Dobbins drops, The Targeting, One play that didn't get a lot of talk was not tackling Ettiene on 3rd and 2 when Clemson was inside our 10 yard line near the end of the 2nd quarter. They had 3 guys right there and he got in between all 3 of them and scored. That was an OSU mistake that hurt bad as we could have held them to 3 points and maybe took momentum back. Instead they held momentum and cut it to a measly 2 point lead shortly after. Kinda like OSU vs Alabama .
These games,,a lot of times its about momentum.
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Post by DrTorch on Dec 30, 2019 23:51:40 GMT -5
all true, probably fair to point out Tuff's dropped (possible) INT and ALSO the Clemson dropped pick-6
i just don't know how anyone watched that fumble and says that it isn't a catch...that really blew my mind...and to OVERTURN the original call, that's pretty egregious imho
tough loss to swallow for sure
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Post by maplecityjake on Dec 31, 2019 6:42:39 GMT -5
The network rules expert gave me confidence the right calls were made. He was on the money with his explanations. So, I can't speak for all of us, but I will humbly state he can forget more about how the rules work than I'll ever know.
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Post by misterbreeze on Dec 31, 2019 7:48:19 GMT -5
Fair point. Other officials have now weighed in about the fumble and think they got it wrong. There wasn't indisputable evidence in the eyes of their own peers. It was a great game between two of the best teams in the country and a key play made by participants was nullified. Doesn't sit well with me, but life goes on and unfortunately we will never know if OSU could have defeated LSU in the final.
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 31, 2019 8:29:44 GMT -5
The BIG difference in this game was Clemson had a QB with good wheels. Ohio State's QB only had one good wheel. Those wheels didn't look so imposing, till Shaun Wade was out of the picture.
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Post by cbus on Dec 31, 2019 10:06:43 GMT -5
Regarding targeting vs not targeting. The OK vs LSU game had a prime example. The one in the OSU vs CLEM game doesn't get called unless that kid lays on the ground extra long and Dabo crys to the Ref. I agree with a number of things that were said on the thread. The Dobbins drops, The Targeting, One play that didn't get a lot of talk was not tackling Ettiene on 3rd and 2 when Clemson was inside our 10 yard line near the end of the 2nd quarter. They had 3 guys right there and he got in between all 3 of them and scored. That was an OSU mistake that hurt bad as we could have held them to 3 points and maybe took momentum back. Instead they held momentum and cut it to a measly 2 point lead shortly after. Kinda like OSU vs Alabama . These games,,a lot of times its about momentum. The OSU penalty on the punt was pretty big too.
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Post by DrTorch on Dec 31, 2019 11:06:49 GMT -5
The network rules expert gave me confidence the right calls were made. He was on the money with his explanations. So, I can't speak for all of us, but I will humbly state he can forget more about how the rules work than I'll ever know. he sounded like a gd moron to me, he even said "i would like to see some steps taken before i call it a catch" well in college you don't need STEPS you only need possession and one foot down if that same play happens on the sideline it is ruled a catch, no doubt in my mind and if reaching up with two hands and snatching a football out of the air and then taking several steps with a defender on your back isn't a "Football Move" then wtf planet am I on? the SEC officials look like morons missing that call, complete and total morons
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 31, 2019 11:43:13 GMT -5
The BIG difference in this game was Clemson had a QB with good wheels. Ohio State's QB only had one good wheel. Those wheels didn't look so imposing, till Shaun Wade was out of the picture. You're kidding right? Wade hit him once on a blitz. It WAS NOT his responsibility to shadow Trevor Lawrence.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 31, 2019 11:49:23 GMT -5
Regarding targeting vs not targeting. The OK vs LSU game had a prime example. The one in the OSU vs CLEM game doesn't get called unless that kid lays on the ground extra long and Dabo crys to the Ref. I agree with a number of things that were said on the thread. The Dobbins drops, The Targeting, One play that didn't get a lot of talk was not tackling Ettiene on 3rd and 2 when Clemson was inside our 10 yard line near the end of the 2nd quarter. They had 3 guys right there and he got in between all 3 of them and scored. That was an OSU mistake that hurt bad as we could have held them to 3 points and maybe took momentum back. Instead they held momentum and cut it to a measly 2 point lead shortly after. Kinda like OSU vs Alabama . These games,,a lot of times its about momentum. The OSU penalty on the punt was pretty big too. I blame Ryan Day for that. Being aggressive on offense is one thing, being stupid on special teams is another. When Ohio State lined up on that punt and I saw Olave in the middle of the line, even I knew what was coming. Do nothing and Ohio State stops the Clemson offense again and gets the ball at midfield.
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Post by DrTorch on Dec 31, 2019 13:01:39 GMT -5
several officiating crews have come out and publicly condemned the fumble overturn
argh
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 31, 2019 17:12:05 GMT -5
The network rules expert gave me confidence the right calls were made. He was on the money with his explanations. So, I can't speak for all of us, but I will humbly state he can forget more about how the rules work than I'll ever know. he sounded like a gd moron to me, he even said "i would like to see some steps taken before i call it a catch" well in college you don't need STEPS you only need possession and one foot down if that same play happens on the sideline it is ruled a catch, no doubt in my mind and if reaching up with two hands and snatching a football out of the air and then taking several steps with a defender on your back isn't a "Football Move" then wtf planet am I on? the SEC officials look like morons missing that call, complete and total morons Moron he was. Evidently he can't count past one. He took four, striding steps, had firm grip on the ball, no bobbles or juggling and then that magnificent strip, by one of the very best CB's in the game......a forced fumble!
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Post by buckeyekid on Jan 1, 2020 8:32:51 GMT -5
If nothing else comes out of it, you just hope that some changes for the betterment of CF comes out of all this. The guys in the replay booth need to get educated better. The targeting rule needs to get changed and before a kid gets quickly booted,,different degrees of punishment occur. In my opinion, the def of targeting is too easily accepted these days. This is football after all and kids wear helmets.
What Wade did should not fall into targeting by intent with being kicked out of the game being the result. There should be about 4 degrees of targeting with the worst offense only being booted from the game.
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Post by Birdman on Jan 4, 2020 9:42:11 GMT -5
It’s taken me this long to want to, or have the audacity to write a post.
I firmly believe Clemson was only going to score 29 points in that game, obviously, but let me continue.
With the aforementioned in mind the buckeyes were anywhere from the 23 to 48 points.
What does all this mean.....
Primarily it means the buckeyes didn’t take full advantage of the red zone, didn’t score touchdowns and their defense later their arms down on that last defensive stand with the lead.
On a red to team percentage I rest on a 60-40 team to ref, blew the game percentage.
No one will ever prove it but I do feel there was more to the calls than just the calls themself. I observed numerous times holding, face masking, on many buckeyes with the red in view and nothing.....
The penalties especially the target, poor call. Even poorer is the ejection.
At the end of the day, the arguably most talented Buckeye team in our history lost to a team they were better than both in paper and the field, yet allowed them to stay in and beat them.
You can’t convince me Clemson is the better team, for the fact they needed the refs to win the game and numerous “helpful” incidents to overcome the buckeyes.
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