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Post by nattydaddy on Jul 11, 2020 23:49:42 GMT -5
COVID update. Just under 3000 Ohioans have died. 80% are nursing home residents. 600 non-nursing home patients have died from COVID. Just under 400 people have died this year in Ohio from motor vehicle accidents. COVID is barely beating cars. Cancel football because people could die in their cars on the way to games. I understand why we reacted the way we did initially. I was on board. All we had were unreliable numbers from China and scary numbers from Italy. Now we have Ohio numbers and they are less scary than NYC numbers. It’s become more political and sells more ad time. Science is gone. We’ve lost our ever-loving minds. fan, I would like to help you with your stats. "600 non-nursing home patients have died WITH Covid". When someone is stabbed in the femoral artery, bleeds out and dies, did they die from a stab wound or "with" a stab wound to the femoral artery? "From/with" is a dumb canard on COVID-19. They died from it. It killed them. |
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Post by nattydaddy on Jul 12, 2020 0:12:11 GMT -5
I’ll try to be brief. Remember at the beginning? It was about flattering the curve. We acknowledged people were going to die. I saw official numbers provided by the state of Ohio that had predictions based on no, mild, moderate, and strict social distancing. Even strict social distancing had us full at the peak. We’ve admitted less than 20 in three hospitals TOTAL. Last I looked Richland County had 2 deaths. We’ve now switched to people aren’t allowed to die from this. The goal changed. It’s not a realistic goal. How long do we keep this up? Until a vaccine or treatment is available. Reality is that is probably 1-2 years away. We cannot sustain current standards for that amount of time. We’re jeopardizing our economy, our children’s education, our sanity. We have to acknowledge people are going to die. Most of them are going to be very old and very sick. Many are going to be people who made bad choices. Smokers, obese people with diabetes, people who never exercise and sit on the couch all day. Very few are going to be healthy people and they will make the news and have way too much influence on policy. Having said that if I were advising a school I would tell them to start back with a split schedule. Half the kids there 2 1/2 days then swap. Probably unnecessary and potentially makes things worse. Who is going to watch those kids when they’re off? Vulnerable grandparents. But if they go back full time and there is a spike the state will make them go full home school. It’s a reasonable compromise. I’d advise them to play sports. Fans should maintain the same social distancing as church and the grocery store. These kids are not going to die from COVID. Big picture I would have opened up a little faster so we would be further along by now. That might be the wrong answer. It’s just my opinion. I believe population density is the biggest factor. In Ohio it’s been nursing homes and prisons. Population density. It’s always sad when people die, but people die. This hasn’t been the plague we anticipated. I have no knowledge of people lying about cause of death or reasons for admission to get paid more. Admittedly our volume has been low. I would be disgusted by someone in my profession that would do that. Our job is to be compassionate scientist. That would be betraying the science part. It may be happening in big cities. It's not about kids dying from COVID, although I'm sure some invariably might. It's about the teachers not dying, it's about the buildings not being swamped with COVID like nursing homes and prisons have proven to be and exactly what colleges are trying to keep their dormitories from being. We will not fully understand the range of impacts SARS-CoV-2 puts on the human body for a while. Is COVID-19 a blood disease? There isn't a consensus that it is, but that's where many of the signs are pointing to. Here's another thing to consider: why do many employers promote working from home ("WFH") currently if they're capable of it? As opposed to herding everyone back into offices (think county, state)? The health component is one, but the health care and the related insurance costs is the bigger factor. There are cuts to the state budget, there are cuts that trickle down to the schools. There is a looming threat that health care premiums will spike either now or down the road because of COVID-19 and the employer contributions will respond in kind. Why is any mid-sized or large district going to consider "five days a week, in-person" instruction with that? Even with 'blended learning', you still have chunks of employees in a building that puts them at odds of contracting COVID-19. What do the rolls for substitute teachers look like for some of these districts anyways? My frustration is we, the United States, don't have that good of a grip or understanding on what COVID-19 really means for public health and COVID-19's impact on our society for years to come. It's a very difficult virus to understand, its pathology has still a long way to go and we won't fully understand the preventable pain and suffering that COVID will scorch until it's too late. |
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Post by dude on Jul 12, 2020 8:45:40 GMT -5
fan, I would like to help you with your stats. "600 non-nursing home patients have died WITH Covid". When someone is stabbed in the femoral artery, bleeds out and dies, did they die from a stab wound or "with" a stab wound to the femoral artery? "From/with" is a dumb canard on COVID-19. They died from it. It killed them. My post was made because if someone dies from a stab wound but had previously tested positive with Covid, it is rerecorded as a Covid death. There is a difference in death FROM Covid and a death WITH Covid. If your person gets stabbed in the leg and stumbles into the street and gets run over by a semi and are dead in the street, what was the cause of death. My guess is they died WITH a stab wound. |
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Post by dude on Jul 12, 2020 8:53:41 GMT -5
It's not about kids dying from COVID, although I'm sure some invariably might. It's about the teachers not dying, it's about the buildings not being swamped with COVID like nursing homes and prisons have proven to be and exactly what colleges are trying to keep their dormitories from being. We will not fully understand the range of impacts SARS-CoV-2 puts on the human body for a while. Is COVID-19 a blood disease? There isn't a consensus that it is, but that's where many of the signs are pointing to. Here's another thing to consider: why do many employers promote working from home ("WFH") currently if they're capable of it? As opposed to herding everyone back into offices (think county, state)? The health component is one, but the health care and the related insurance costs is the bigger factor. There are cuts to the state budget, there are cuts that trickle down to the schools. There is a looming threat that health care premiums will spike either now or down the road because of COVID-19 and the employer contributions will respond in kind. Why is any mid-sized or large district going to consider "five days a week, in-person" instruction with that? Even with 'blended learning', you still have chunks of employees in a building that puts them at odds of contracting COVID-19. What do the rolls for substitute teachers look like for some of these districts anyways? My frustration is we, the United States, don't have that good of a grip or understanding on what COVID-19 really means for public health and COVID-19's impact on our society for years to come. It's a very difficult virus to understand, its pathology has still a long way to go and we won't fully understand the preventable pain and suffering that COVID will scorch until it's too late. I personally know 2 people that tested positive. Both are over 60 and both recovered. Less and less employers weekly are allowing employees to work from home. Facts are coming out, this virus is media driven and nothing more than what we have seen before and dealt with. |
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 12, 2020 15:07:20 GMT -5
I’ll try to be brief. Remember at the beginning? It was about flattering the curve. We acknowledged people were going to die. I saw official numbers provided by the state of Ohio that had predictions based on no, mild, moderate, and strict social distancing. Even strict social distancing had us full at the peak. We’ve admitted less than 20 in three hospitals TOTAL. Last I looked Richland County had 2 deaths. We’ve now switched to people aren’t allowed to die from this. The goal changed. It’s not a realistic goal. How long do we keep this up? Until a vaccine or treatment is available. Reality is that is probably 1-2 years away. We cannot sustain current standards for that amount of time. We’re jeopardizing our economy, our children’s education, our sanity. We have to acknowledge people are going to die. Most of them are going to be very old and very sick. Many are going to be people who made bad choices. Smokers, obese people with diabetes, people who never exercise and sit on the couch all day. Very few are going to be healthy people and they will make the news and have way too much influence on policy. Having said that if I were advising a school I would tell them to start back with a split schedule. Half the kids there 2 1/2 days then swap. Probably unnecessary and potentially makes things worse. Who is going to watch those kids when they’re off? Vulnerable grandparents. But if they go back full time and there is a spike the state will make them go full home school. It’s a reasonable compromise. I’d advise them to play sports. Fans should maintain the same social distancing as church and the grocery store. These kids are not going to die from COVID. Big picture I would have opened up a little faster so we would be further along by now. That might be the wrong answer. It’s just my opinion. I believe population density is the biggest factor. In Ohio it’s been nursing homes and prisons. Population density. It’s always sad when people die, but people die. This hasn’t been the plague we anticipated. I have no knowledge of people lying about cause of death or reasons for admission to get paid more. Admittedly our volume has been low. I would be disgusted by someone in my profession that would do that. Our job is to be compassionate scientist. That would be betraying the science part. It may be happening in big cities. It's not about kids dying from COVID, although I'm sure some invariably might. It's about the teachers not dying, it's about the buildings not being swamped with COVID like nursing homes and prisons have proven to be and exactly what colleges are trying to keep their dormitories from being. We will not fully understand the range of impacts SARS-CoV-2 puts on the human body for a while. Is COVID-19 a blood disease? There isn't a consensus that it is, but that's where many of the signs are pointing to. Here's another thing to consider: why do many employers promote working from home ("WFH") currently if they're capable of it? As opposed to herding everyone back into offices (think county, state)? The health component is one, but the health care and the related insurance costs is the bigger factor. There are cuts to the state budget, there are cuts that trickle down to the schools. There is a looming threat that health care premiums will spike either now or down the road because of COVID-19 and the employer contributions will respond in kind. Why is any mid-sized or large district going to consider "five days a week, in-person" instruction with that? Even with 'blended learning', you still have chunks of employees in a building that puts them at odds of contracting COVID-19. What do the rolls for substitute teachers look like for some of these districts anyways? My frustration is we, the United States, don't have that good of a grip or understanding on what COVID-19 really means for public health and COVID-19's impact on our society for years to come. It's a very difficult virus to understand, its pathology has still a long way to go and we won't fully understand the preventable pain and suffering that COVID will scorch until it's too late. Some valid points. Teachers are at greater risk. Some people have permanent consequences. Working from home is very different than remote education. There are some studies that show people are more productive in less time at home. I doubt you’ll find evidence that kids are educated better at home. It can be done by people who choose to do it, but not universally. You can’t lump the whole US’s ability to test and trace together. Rural Ohio’s ability isn’t great, but our volume is low. We can handle our volume. If we loosen restrictions and cases climb we tap the brakes. |
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 12, 2020 15:55:31 GMT -5
Just read some data from Europe that may be good news for schools. Transmission from kids to adults is lower. Denmark has opened schools and not seen a spike. Theory is kids get more inflammatory symptoms and less cold symptoms so they don’t spread it as easily.
Also transmission outside is significantly lower than inside making fall sports less risky.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 12, 2020 18:26:02 GMT -5
It's not about kids dying from COVID, although I'm sure some invariably might. It's about the teachers not dying, it's about the buildings not being swamped with COVID like nursing homes and prisons have proven to be and exactly what colleges are trying to keep their dormitories from being. We will not fully understand the range of impacts SARS-CoV-2 puts on the human body for a while. Is COVID-19 a blood disease? There isn't a consensus that it is, but that's where many of the signs are pointing to. Here's another thing to consider: why do many employers promote working from home ("WFH") currently if they're capable of it? As opposed to herding everyone back into offices (think county, state)? The health component is one, but the health care and the related insurance costs is the bigger factor. There are cuts to the state budget, there are cuts that trickle down to the schools. There is a looming threat that health care premiums will spike either now or down the road because of COVID-19 and the employer contributions will respond in kind. Why is any mid-sized or large district going to consider "five days a week, in-person" instruction with that? Even with 'blended learning', you still have chunks of employees in a building that puts them at odds of contracting COVID-19. What do the rolls for substitute teachers look like for some of these districts anyways? My frustration is we, the United States, don't have that good of a grip or understanding on what COVID-19 really means for public health and COVID-19's impact on our society for years to come. It's a very difficult virus to understand, its pathology has still a long way to go and we won't fully understand the preventable pain and suffering that COVID will scorch until it's too late. Some valid points. Teachers are at greater risk. Some people have permanent consequences. Working from home is very different than remote education. There are some studies that show people are more productive in less time at home. I doubt you’ll find evidence that kids are educated better at home. It can be done by people who choose to do it, but not universally. You can’t lump the whole US’s ability to test and trace together. Rural Ohio’s ability isn’t great, but our volume is low. We can handle our volume. If we loosen restrictions and cases climb we tap the brakes. My daughter has very successfully worked at home for the same company for 20 years. From Arizona, Texas, Missouri, Mississippi and Ohio...it didn't matter...her husband was in the military. She has had several promotions, the next would be at the VP level. If she wants that one, she would have to relocate to the city where their headquarters is. Every month or so all home workers fly into their headquarters for a "collaboration week". They have one hard fast rule for their employees that work from home. Children MUST be out of the home during working hours. If your kids are at home, they've found it was way too stressful. She says to be successful working at home, one must be driven, strictly follow a schedule you make for yourself and shower every morning and dress as if you were going to work at the company's building. It is not as easy, for a long stretch, as many think it is. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 16:42:01 GMT -5
Can you imagine the fiasco it could be if Roxanne M. Price gets promoted to the head mountie.
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Post by nattydaddy on Jul 16, 2020 23:20:56 GMT -5
[There is a difference in death FROM Covid and a death WITH Covid. If this were the case, then people don’t die FROM cancer: they die WITH cancer, as it’s the product of cancer’s impact (e.g. organ failure) that kills them. |
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Post by dude on Jul 17, 2020 6:35:29 GMT -5
[There is a difference in death FROM Covid and a death WITH Covid. If this were the case, then people don’t die FROM cancer: they die WITH cancer, as it’s the product of cancer’s impact (e.g. organ failure) that kills them. But having known that cancer caused the organ failure it could still be said they died FROM cancer. Being killed in a car crash after testing positive with covid should not be a covid death, but it is being recorded that way. |
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 17, 2020 6:43:47 GMT -5
I fill out death certificates. There isn’t just one line on the form.
The first line asks for the immediate cause of death. Frequently I put cardiac dysthymia (abnormal heart rhythm). After that there are three additional lines that say as a result of/consequence of.
A certificate might read cardiac dysthymia as a result of hypoxia (low oxygen level) as a result of COVID pneumonia.
Cardiac dysthymia as a result of electrolyte imbalance as a result of renal failure as a result of metastatic lung cancer.
There is also a section that says contributing factors. So a person could come in who was hit by a truck and his/her injuries are the cause of death. While hospitalized s/he might test positive for Coronavirus. It would be in the judgment of the doctor what was listed as the cause of death. Three possibilities.
The injuries alone caused the death.
The injuries alone were not serious enough, but getting COVID on top of the injuries tipped them over. In that case COVID might be added to the contributing factor line.
The injuries were minor and COVID killed the patient.
Death certificates are a challenge. Frequently I will be asked to sign one on a long time patient who dies at home. I may not have seen them for months. If I don’t sign them they become a coroner’s case which can require an autopsy. That’s stressful for the family and delays services. If the coroner doesn’t see any evidence of foul play I will frequently make a best guess from their medical history to save the family the heart ache.
If a patient tests positive for COVID while hospitalized it will be included in the paperwork whether they live or die. The hospital gets paid more. It’s not greed. The reason is those patients cost more to care for. They burn PPE. Staff requires extra time to don and doff said PPE.
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Post by dude on Jul 17, 2020 7:25:00 GMT -5
I fill out death certificates. There isn’t just one line on the form. The first line asks for the immediate cause of death. Frequently I put cardiac dysthymia (abnormal heart rhythm). After that there are three additional lines that say as a result of/consequence of. A certificate might read cardiac dysthymia as a result of hypoxia (low oxygen level) as a result of COVID pneumonia. Cardiac dysthymia as a result of electrolyte imbalance as a result of renal failure as a result of metastatic lung cancer. There is also a section that says contributing factors. So a person could come in who was hit by a truck and his/her injuries are the cause of death. While hospitalized s/he might test positive for Coronavirus. It would be in the judgment of the doctor what was listed as the cause of death. Three possibilities.
The injuries alone caused the death.
The injuries alone were not serious enough, but getting COVID on top of the injuries tipped them over. In that case COVID might be added to the contributing factor line.
The injuries were minor and COVID killed the patient. Death certificates are a challenge. Frequently I will be asked to sign one on a long time patient who dies at home. I may not have seen them for months. If I don’t sign them they become a coroner’s case which can require an autopsy. That’s stressful for the family and delays services. If the coroner doesn’t see any evidence of foul play I will frequently make a best guess from their medical history to save the family the heart ache. If a patient tests positive for COVID while hospitalized it will be included in the paperwork whether they live or die. The hospital gets paid more. It’s not greed. The reason is those patients cost more to care for. They burn PPE. Staff requires extra time to don and doff said PPE. If the person hit by the truck had been diagnosed with influenza would it be treated the same? |
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Post by dude on Jul 17, 2020 7:27:51 GMT -5
For the record it has been stated by health officials that anyone who dies with a positive covid test will be counted as a covid death. So regardless of what the death cert says the cause was, it will be counted.
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 17, 2020 9:15:43 GMT -5
I fill out death certificates. There isn’t just one line on the form. The first line asks for the immediate cause of death. Frequently I put cardiac dysthymia (abnormal heart rhythm). After that there are three additional lines that say as a result of/consequence of. A certificate might read cardiac dysthymia as a result of hypoxia (low oxygen level) as a result of COVID pneumonia. Cardiac dysthymia as a result of electrolyte imbalance as a result of renal failure as a result of metastatic lung cancer. There is also a section that says contributing factors. So a person could come in who was hit by a truck and his/her injuries are the cause of death. While hospitalized s/he might test positive for Coronavirus. It would be in the judgment of the doctor what was listed as the cause of death. Three possibilities.
The injuries alone caused the death.
The injuries alone were not serious enough, but getting COVID on top of the injuries tipped them over. In that case COVID might be added to the contributing factor line.
The injuries were minor and COVID killed the patient. Death certificates are a challenge. Frequently I will be asked to sign one on a long time patient who dies at home. I may not have seen them for months. If I don’t sign them they become a coroner’s case which can require an autopsy. That’s stressful for the family and delays services. If the coroner doesn’t see any evidence of foul play I will frequently make a best guess from their medical history to save the family the heart ache. If a patient tests positive for COVID while hospitalized it will be included in the paperwork whether they live or die. The hospital gets paid more. It’s not greed. The reason is those patients cost more to care for. They burn PPE. Staff requires extra time to don and doff said PPE. If the person hit by the truck had been diagnosed with influenza would it be treated the same? The positive influenza would be included in the hospital documentation and it would influence what the hospital and doctor billed for. Whether it ends up on the death certificate is at the physician’s discretion. Doctors and hospitals get paid, in part, based on complexity. Payment is greater for pneumonia in a diabetic than plain pneumonia. It’s more complicated to care for the patient with multiple problems. In this example you’re choosing antibiotics and managing blood sugars not just choosing antibiotics. To prove you are doing it you have to document it. |
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Post by dude on Jul 17, 2020 9:47:27 GMT -5
If the person hit by the truck had been diagnosed with influenza would it be treated the same? The positive influenza would be included in the hospital documentation and it would influence what the hospital and doctor billed for. Whether it ends up on the death certificate is at the physician’s discretion. Doctors and hospitals get paid, in part, based on complexity. Payment is greater for pneumonia in a diabetic than plain pneumonia. It’s more complicated to care for the patient with multiple problems. In this example you’re choosing antibiotics and managing blood sugars not just choosing antibiotics. To prove you are doing it you have to document it. Understood but the billing is not really a part of this discussion. I was simply saying that every death of a person that has a positive covid test is being counted as a covid death. If a person has cancer and shoots themselves in the head it is counted as a suicide. If a perfectly healthy person with a positive covid test dies instantly from a car crash impact it will be added to the total of covid deaths according to some health officials. And will also be counted as a auto fatality. I'm only trying to point out the method of counting the individual death count for covid is not actually providing a total of people who died from a direct result of testing positive. |
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 17, 2020 9:55:22 GMT -5
The positive influenza would be included in the hospital documentation and it would influence what the hospital and doctor billed for. Whether it ends up on the death certificate is at the physician’s discretion. Doctors and hospitals get paid, in part, based on complexity. Payment is greater for pneumonia in a diabetic than plain pneumonia. It’s more complicated to care for the patient with multiple problems. In this example you’re choosing antibiotics and managing blood sugars not just choosing antibiotics. To prove you are doing it you have to document it. Understood but the billing is not really a part of this discussion. I was simply saying that every death of a person that has a positive covid test is being counted as a covid death. If a person has cancer and shoots themselves in the head it is counted as a suicide. If a perfectly healthy person with a positive covid test dies instantly from a car crash impact it will be added to the total of covid deaths according to some health officials. And will also be counted as a auto fatality. I'm only trying to point out the method of counting the individual death count for covid is not actually providing a total of people who died from a direct result of testing positive. Those stats are collected from billing and death certificates. There is no other universal way to collect data. How the government is choosing to manipulate and release that data is up to them. |
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Post by dude on Jul 17, 2020 10:03:57 GMT -5
Understood but the billing is not really a part of this discussion. I was simply saying that every death of a person that has a positive covid test is being counted as a covid death. If a person has cancer and shoots themselves in the head it is counted as a suicide. If a perfectly healthy person with a positive covid test dies instantly from a car crash impact it will be added to the total of covid deaths according to some health officials. And will also be counted as a auto fatality. I'm only trying to point out the method of counting the individual death count for covid is not actually providing a total of people who died from a direct result of testing positive. Those stats are collected from billing and death certificates. There is no other universal way to collect data. How the government is choosing to manipulate and release that data is up to them. Well let me ask you a question as a physician. Q#1. If a person immediately dies from a gunshot wound but a week prior tested positive for covid, should that death be included in a number that dictates how we react to covid? Now magnify that one death to potentially 50% of the total that is being given. Q#2. If the Ohio covid death dropped to 1200 today do you feel it would change the way Ohioans are reacting to this virus? |
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 17, 2020 11:43:54 GMT -5
Those stats are collected from billing and death certificates. There is no other universal way to collect data. How the government is choosing to manipulate and release that data is up to them. Well let me ask you a question as a physician. Q#1. If a person immediately dies from a gunshot wound but a week prior tested positive for covid, should that death be included in a number that dictates how we react to covid? Now magnify that one death to potentially 50% of the total that is being given. Q#2. If the Ohio covid death dropped to 1200 today do you feel it would change the way Ohioans are reacting to this virus? COVID should only be listed on a death certificate if it contributed in a meaningful way to the person’s death (injury alone would not have caused death, but injury complicated by COVID did). Admittedly, that’s a judgment call and should be decided on by the physicians caring for the patient not hospital administrators or government officials. It seems like people are either buying into the media 100% and in full blown panic (one of the ladies in the office said Sam’s Club was out of TP again last night), or you have the conspiracy theorists who are defiantly going everywhere without masks claiming the government is manipulating us. Maybe they are just the most vocal. I’m not sure anything is going to change either of their minds. 1. I believe the media is overhyping this. 2. I believe that some in government and business are manipulating the numbers to mislead the public and to make money. 3. I believe this is a deadly illness that can kill people and precautions need to be taken. Unfortunately 1 and 2 are tainting the decisions about how and to what extent we react. That is resulting in people pushing back against reasonable actions. |
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Post by truecrimson on Jul 17, 2020 13:16:53 GMT -5
Well let me ask you a question as a physician. Q#1. If a person immediately dies from a gunshot wound but a week prior tested positive for covid, should that death be included in a number that dictates how we react to covid? Now magnify that one death to potentially 50% of the total that is being given. Q#2. If the Ohio covid death dropped to 1200 today do you feel it would change the way Ohioans are reacting to this virus? COVID should only be listed on a death certificate if it contributed in a meaningful way to the person’s death (injury alone would not have caused death, but injury complicated by COVID did). Admittedly, that’s a judgment call and should be decided on by the physicians caring for the patient not hospital administrators or government officials. It seems like people are either buying into the media 100% and in full blown panic (one of the ladies in the office said Sam’s Club was out of TP again last night), or you have the conspiracy theorists who are defiantly going everywhere without masks claiming the government is manipulating us. Maybe they are just the most vocal. I’m not sure anything is going to change either of their minds. 1. I believe the media is overhyping this. 2. I believe that some in government and business are manipulating the numbers to mislead the public and to make money. 3. I believe this is a deadly illness that can kill people and precautions need to be taken. Unfortunately 1 and 2 are tainting the decisions about how and to what extent we react. That is resulting in people pushing back against reasonable actions. Excellent post, Fan!! |
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Post by crimson5 on Jul 20, 2020 4:36:30 GMT -5
COVID should only be listed on a death certificate if it contributed in a meaningful way to the person’s death (injury alone would not have caused death, but injury complicated by COVID did). Admittedly, that’s a judgment call and should be decided on by the physicians caring for the patient not hospital administrators or government officials. It seems like people are either buying into the media 100% and in full blown panic (one of the ladies in the office said Sam’s Club was out of TP again last night), or you have the conspiracy theorists who are defiantly going everywhere without masks claiming the government is manipulating us. Maybe they are just the most vocal. I’m not sure anything is going to change either of their minds. 1. I believe the media is overhyping this. 2. I believe that some in government and business are manipulating the numbers to mislead the public and to make money. 3. I believe this is a deadly illness that can kill people and precautions need to be taken. Unfortunately 1 and 2 are tainting the decisions about how and to what extent we react. That is resulting in people pushing back against reasonable actions. Excellent post, Fan!! Good post. I'd like to hear your definitions of "precautions". The common flu is deadly, COVID in all likelyhood is more deadly, but the published/manipulated statistics make me wonder. |
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