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Post by dude on Feb 26, 2021 8:11:48 GMT -5
Congratulations to Mount Vernon on insuring the OCC would win a game in the tournament this year. They beat Westland 64-50. Also West Holmes beat Zanesville Maysville and will play Tri-Valley On Saturday. I think everyone in the OCC expect Lexington will play this weekend. It is possible that not many in the OCC will get past their first game in tournament this year. Which would make sense with the OCC being down this season. In recent years when Mansfield and Lexington are not challenging for the top 3-4 spots in the league, the OCC has not had many tournament wins. In the last 10 years(10 because that includes multiple coaches at each school) looking at the 6 schools that have been in the OCC the entire time,(this excludes MV) the larger schools have been poor in tournament. Ashland 6-10 Lexington 20-10 Madison 8-10 Mansfield 16-10 West Holmes 7-10 Wooster 5-10 In the same time frame when teams have won or shared a league title they had the below record in tournament. Ashland 2-1 Lexington 13-5 Madison (no OCC basketball titles) Mansfield 5-3 West Holmes 1-1 Wooster 1-2 (in 2016/17 they went 14-0 in OCC and 0-1 in tournament) |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 26, 2021 15:38:49 GMT -5
Until just recently Mansfield was a DI school, not long before that they were the largest school in the OCC
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Post by dude on Feb 26, 2021 23:01:41 GMT -5
Arrows win
Madison loses
Mt Vernon loses
Mansfield loses
West Holmes plays 2/27
Wooster plays 2/27
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Post by dude on Feb 27, 2021 20:17:33 GMT -5
Wooster takes a beating from Copley at home.
West Holmes wins.
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Post by unc4life on Feb 27, 2021 22:13:20 GMT -5
Wooster takes a beating from Copley at home. West Holmes wins. Death, taxes, and Wooster losing in the first round. Things you can count on. |
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Post by dude on Feb 28, 2021 10:36:19 GMT -5
Wooster takes a beating from Copley at home. West Holmes wins. Death, taxes, and Wooster losing in the first round. Things you can count on. This is in part why I think it is okay to be a smaller school in a larger school league. Ashland and Wooster, 2 of the 3 largest schools in the conference were #1 and #2 in the OCC this season, respectfully winning 17 and 15 total regular season games. Both were questionable if they could win a single tournament game even though both were higher seeds in their first game. Ashland won and Wooster lost again. When the D2 schools in the OCC win 15+ games in regular season they are being discussed as potential District Championship winners. |
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Post by WoosterBuckeye on Feb 28, 2021 14:13:34 GMT -5
The bottom line for Wooster is that we are a small school compared to others in our division. Same thing happens in football. It's hard to compete with those larger schools. Having said that, I expected a better showing against Copley.
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Post by dude on Feb 28, 2021 15:01:20 GMT -5
The bottom line for Wooster is that we are a small school compared to others in our division. Same thing happens in football. It's hard to compete with those larger schools. Having said that, I expected a better showing against Copley. So you are saying that no school that has an enrollment smaller than their opponents can win a game or two? I'd like to know those statistics against schools in other divisions. Specially since a school with and OHSAA enrollment of 500 boys can only still put 5 guys on the floor. I'm not saying that enrollment doesn't matter but the bottom line for Wooster is that they play a schedule inside and out of the OCC that has produced 8 tournament win in 17 years. Adding to that bottom line, Wooster also regularly chooses to play 5-6 games with smaller schools every season on top of the 8-10 games they get inside the OCC from smaller schools. Wooster fled the Federal League because they could not compete and joined the much smaller OCC to collect wins against smaller schools. Ironic.  |
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Post by maplecityjake on Feb 28, 2021 15:46:26 GMT -5
As dude indicated, Wooster's schedule doesn't adequately prepare them for postseason success.
Otoh, a school comparable in size, Lima Senior, does well because TRAC and non-conference does the favor.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 28, 2021 18:58:07 GMT -5
The bottom line for Wooster is that we are a small school compared to others in our division. Same thing happens in football. It's hard to compete with those larger schools. Having said that, I expected a better showing against Copley. So you are saying that no school that has an enrollment smaller than their opponents can win a game or two? I'd like to know those statistics against schools in other divisions. Specially since a school with and OHSAA enrollment of 500 boys can only still put 5 guys on the floor. I'm not saying that enrollment doesn't matter but the bottom line for Wooster is that they play a schedule inside and out of the OCC that has produced 8 tournament win in 17 years. Adding to that bottom line, Wooster also regularly chooses to play 5-6 games with smaller schools every season on top of the 8-10 games they get inside the OCC from smaller schools. Wooster fled the Federal League because they could not compete and joined the much smaller OCC to collect wins against smaller schools. Ironic. Did Ontario choose to play Wooster or did Wooster choose to play Ontario? The OCC prepares DII schools for the post season, but does not prepare DI schools. The same as the the N-10 not preparing Upper? Thus logically it follows that the OCC = N-10.  |
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Post by dude on Mar 1, 2021 8:15:45 GMT -5
As dude indicated, Wooster's schedule doesn't adequately prepare them for postseason success. Otoh, a school comparable in size, Lima Senior, does well because TRAC and non-conference does the favor. Being in a conference with good competition, regardless of enrollments, can make you better, but if your conference can't do that your non league schedule has to. Some schools are in a conference based on location. Using Upper as an example, if they could find a challenging opponent for every non league game to help improve if that is what they want. I know some will say schedules are made in advance and teams can change but Galion and Bellevue have given them very little lately. |
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Post by unc4life on Mar 1, 2021 9:35:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure you can say that Woosters problem is because of divisions in the OCC. The OCC this year in basketball had 4 D1 teams Ashland, Wooster, Mount Vernon and Madison. And then Lexington, Mansfield and West Holmes were D2. Its not like Wooster is playing D3 and D4 teams. Honestly this biggest problem in the OCC this year is half the teams sucked. Lexington and Madsion each won 2 games. Mansfield Sr who even on down years fields a good basketball team, just did have it this year. The conference from top to bottom just wasn't very good. In the tournament anything can happen, you can be the better team and still lose, but the consistency at which Wooster has lost in the tournament the last few years is hard to ignore.
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Post by dude on Mar 1, 2021 10:30:43 GMT -5
I'm not sure you can say that Woosters problem is because of divisions in the OCC. The OCC this year in basketball had 4 D1 teams Ashland, Wooster, Mount Vernon and Madison. And then Lexington, Mansfield and West Holmes were D2. Its not like Wooster is playing D3 and D4 teams. Honestly this biggest problem in the OCC this year is half the teams sucked. Lexington and Madsion each won 2 games. Mansfield Sr who even on down years fields a good basketball team, just did have it this year. The conference from top to bottom just wasn't very good. In the tournament anything can happen, you can be the better team and still lose, but the consistency at which Wooster has lost in the tournament the last few years is hard to ignore. It's true the bottom of the OCC is a bad bottom, but my remarks were about if your league is not helping your improvement, you can beef up the non conference. When Wooster ran from the Federal League they did so because of losing. They now win regularly in the OCC but are still a bad tournament team. Maybe they are happy going 18-4 and winning the OCC and going 0-1 in tournament. I know other teams are not. An old high school coach told me that he would rather be 13-7 on a season and win 4 in tournament games to finish 17-8 than go 19-1 in season and finish 20-2. I remember the season Ashland went 20-1 and finished 22-2. |
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Post by unc4life on Mar 1, 2021 12:34:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure you can say that Woosters problem is because of divisions in the OCC. The OCC this year in basketball had 4 D1 teams Ashland, Wooster, Mount Vernon and Madison. And then Lexington, Mansfield and West Holmes were D2. Its not like Wooster is playing D3 and D4 teams. Honestly this biggest problem in the OCC this year is half the teams sucked. Lexington and Madsion each won 2 games. Mansfield Sr who even on down years fields a good basketball team, just did have it this year. The conference from top to bottom just wasn't very good. In the tournament anything can happen, you can be the better team and still lose, but the consistency at which Wooster has lost in the tournament the last few years is hard to ignore. It's true the bottom of the OCC is a bad bottom, but my remarks were about if your league is not helping your improvement, you can beef up the non conference. When Wooster ran from the Federal League they did so because of losing. They now win regularly in the OCC but are still a bad tournament team. Maybe they are happy going 18-4 and winning the OCC and going 0-1 in tournament. I know other teams are not. An old high school coach told me that he would rather be 13-7 on a season and win 4 in tournament games to finish 17-8 than go 19-1 in season and finish 20-2. I remember the season Ashland went 20-1 and finished 22-2. Reminds me of an old Triway coach that loved to hang the AP poll champions poll banners and never get past the district championship. |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 1, 2021 14:15:34 GMT -5
On the other hand, on occasion, I've seen teams not cut down nets after a Sectional Title win. As a statement that they had much more to play for.
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Post by dude on Mar 1, 2021 14:21:18 GMT -5
It's true the bottom of the OCC is a bad bottom, but my remarks were about if your league is not helping your improvement, you can beef up the non conference. When Wooster ran from the Federal League they did so because of losing. They now win regularly in the OCC but are still a bad tournament team. Maybe they are happy going 18-4 and winning the OCC and going 0-1 in tournament. I know other teams are not. An old high school coach told me that he would rather be 13-7 on a season and win 4 in tournament games to finish 17-8 than go 19-1 in season and finish 20-2. I remember the season Ashland went 20-1 and finished 22-2. Reminds me of an old Triway coach that loved to hang the AP poll champions poll banners and never get past the district championship. Did he also post his career wins on the wall? |
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Post by unc4life on Mar 4, 2021 9:55:19 GMT -5
West Holmes lost last night 49-34. Ashland is the last team standing. Will travel to Toledo tonight.
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 4, 2021 10:41:42 GMT -5
Best of luck to the Arrows!
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Post by dude on Mar 4, 2021 14:55:13 GMT -5
Ashland is the last team standing. Will travel to Toledo tonight. Only common opponent between Ashland and Northview that I saw, was Perrysburg and they both lost to them by 8 points and 4 points. Something to mention, when Ashland played Perrysburg and lost by 8, they were missing a key player who is averaging 15 points a game. |
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Post by unc4life on Mar 4, 2021 15:57:39 GMT -5
Ashland is the last team standing. Will travel to Toledo tonight. Only common opponent between Ashland and Northview that I saw, was Perrysburg and they both lost to them by 8 points and 4 points. Something to mention, when Ashland played Perrysburg and lost by 8, they were missing a key player who is averaging 15 points a game. Should be a good game. As far as I know, I don't think Northview and Ashland have ever played in Basketball before. Seems like we always get Southview. Either way, hope the arrows can find the hot hand tonight and bring home a win. |
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 4, 2021 19:13:52 GMT -5
Wildcats take down Arrows, 76-64.
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Post by dude on Mar 5, 2021 14:18:10 GMT -5
With that game every OCC team has been eliminated this tournament season. Congrats to the 2021 seniors.
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Post by WoosterBuckeye on Mar 12, 2021 7:57:58 GMT -5
The bottom line for Wooster is that we are a small school compared to others in our division. Same thing happens in football. It's hard to compete with those larger schools. Having said that, I expected a better showing against Copley. So you are saying that no school that has an enrollment smaller than their opponents can win a game or two? I'd like to know those statistics against schools in other divisions. Specially since a school with and OHSAA enrollment of 500 boys can only still put 5 guys on the floor. I'm not saying that enrollment doesn't matter but the bottom line for Wooster is that they play a schedule inside and out of the OCC that has produced 8 tournament win in 17 years. Adding to that bottom line, Wooster also regularly chooses to play 5-6 games with smaller schools every season on top of the 8-10 games they get inside the OCC from smaller schools. Wooster fled the Federal League because they could not compete and joined the much smaller OCC to collect wins against smaller schools. Ironic. No, Did I say that? Did I say they should not be able to win a game or two? I said it is harder to compete. Actually the argument you state about wooster leaving the federal league to join a smaller school league to get wins actually supports my statement |
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Post by dude on Mar 12, 2021 8:25:01 GMT -5
So you are saying that no school that has an enrollment smaller than their opponents can win a game or two? I'd like to know those statistics against schools in other divisions. Specially since a school with and OHSAA enrollment of 500 boys can only still put 5 guys on the floor. I'm not saying that enrollment doesn't matter but the bottom line for Wooster is that they play a schedule inside and out of the OCC that has produced 8 tournament win in 17 years. Adding to that bottom line, Wooster also regularly chooses to play 5-6 games with smaller schools every season on top of the 8-10 games they get inside the OCC from smaller schools. Wooster fled the Federal League because they could not compete and joined the much smaller OCC to collect wins against smaller schools. Ironic. No, Did I say that? Did I say they should not be able to win a game or two? I said it is harder to compete. Actually the argument you state about wooster leaving the federal league to join a smaller school league to get wins actually supports my statement What you said was the bottom line is Wooster is smaller and it's hard for them to compete against larger schools. Win a game or two? Do you realize that in Snowbarger's time at Wooster they have averaged over 15 wins a season but have won 3 tournament games in 6 years. Most schools when they win their league, they compete for a District title at their level. In their last three OCC title seasons they have gone 54-7 in regular season and 1-3 in tournament. They may want to beef up their schedule a little to help make them better for sectionals. |
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 12, 2021 10:53:39 GMT -5
Battle testing is key. Iron sharpens iron.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 12, 2021 22:26:48 GMT -5
Battle testing is key. Iron sharpens iron. No "iron" in the OCC?? |
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 12, 2021 22:35:55 GMT -5
Battle testing is key. Iron sharpens iron. No "iron" in the OCC?? Evidently, for Wooster, no |
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Post by dude on Mar 15, 2021 7:49:21 GMT -5
Evidently, for Wooster, no The fact is the D1 schools in the OCC are normally not good enough to compete with the teams of Columbus, Akron/Canton or Toledo even though they may win a lot of games in the OCC. For those teams, it will be their non-league games that prepare them for a long tournament run. Looking at the top 2 OCC teams this season, Wooster and Ashland went 7-2 and 4-2 in non-league play. Wooster was 3-2 vs D1 teams, 3-0 vs D2 and 1-0 vs D3. Ashland was 1-2 vs D1, 2-0 vs D2 and 1-0 vs D3. In the tournament Wooster was 0-1 and Ashland was 1-1. Obvious they were both average or below D1 teams but when playing D2 or D3 schools they did well. So as a result the answer is that "iron" comes in many levels and the OCC does not have D1 "iron".  |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 15, 2021 14:55:05 GMT -5
No one with any intelligence compares results in Divisions only. The OCC did not prepare their DII schools either.
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Post by ohioraised on Mar 15, 2021 15:31:10 GMT -5
West Holmes went 2 and 1 and made it to districts for the first time in years. Lex and Sr were going to be average this season before covid kicked in.
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