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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 30, 2021 8:36:22 GMT -5
Personally, Bellevue's thinking is backwards, and I don't like saying this. Even if Ross goes on an upswing, it's another school to battle test the Redmen for potential tournament success. Conference trophies are nice, but tournament trophies are nicer. Then Bellevue should play Ross in a non-conference game, thus not affecting a Division trophy.
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Post by Mike Hula on Mar 30, 2021 9:48:19 GMT -5
Maybe Ontario should play Mansfield?
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 30, 2021 9:48:37 GMT -5
Personally, Bellevue's thinking is backwards, and I don't like saying this. Even if Ross goes on an upswing, it's another school to battle test the Redmen for potential tournament success. Conference trophies are nice, but tournament trophies are nicer. Then Bellevue should play Ross in a non-conference game, thus not affecting a Division trophy. Conference competitiveness is the answer to Postseason success. And, allows Bellevue to change their mindset.
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 30, 2021 9:49:48 GMT -5
Maybe Ontario should play Mansfield? in fairness, they do in Basketball which is each school's forte.
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Post by sbclives on Mar 30, 2021 13:38:16 GMT -5
That has never made any sense to me over the years with Bellevue. I’ve seen them play with the big boys in the playoffs for football and basketball and even seen their girls play with some of the Toledo schools in basketball over the years. They are in the same league with Sandusky, Columbian and Norwalk but absolutely not when it comes to Fremont Ross. There is something I’m missing why they almost ignore Fremont Ross.
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Post by richrod on Mar 30, 2021 20:37:45 GMT -5
Then Bellevue should play Ross in a non-conference game, thus not affecting a Division trophy. Conference competitiveness is the answer to Postseason success. And, allows Bellevue to change their mindset. it kills me when norwalk folks talk about scheduling for football. Norwalk finally has to play some solid d3 teams in the non league because they finally started winning. they tried like hell to schedule down though, even this year. I'm glad they got hartley, will be interesting to see how they stack up now that their expectations are higher. Also, when it comes to Fremont, there are plenty more schools not interested in them outside of bellevue and clyde.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 20:39:49 GMT -5
It disrupts but doesn’t change the SBC 3 divisions. Maybe Fremont Ross gets in. If so the Lake competitiveness doesn’t change and Ross doesn’t dominate or even win it in the near future. It is the answer for the next ten years anyhow. Bellevue and Clyde are afraid of Ross for some reason and since they control the SBC, Ross will never get in. you can add perkins and norwalk to that. along with many of the bay schools to my knowledge
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 20:41:15 GMT -5
Maybe Ontario should play Mansfield? they'll lose more kids to mansfield that way haha
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 20:41:55 GMT -5
That has never made any sense to me over the years with Bellevue. I’ve seen them play with the big boys in the playoffs for football and basketball and even seen their girls play with some of the Toledo schools in basketball over the years. They are in the same league with Sandusky, Columbian and Norwalk but absolutely not when it comes to Fremont Ross. There is something I’m missing why they almost ignore Fremont Ross. why have they needed to play them?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 20:46:50 GMT -5
When you’re on top of the league like Bellevue, Clyde and TC have been, you don’t want to give that up. If Fremont Ross goes on an upswing in talent and goes on a 5-10 year run in football, Bellevue and Clyde would be none to happy they allowed them in their league. I think the better question is... why would a much larger school like Fremont, want to get in a league with 3 d4 schools and 3 d3 schools? I'd argue its more of an indictment on Fremont than the Lake schools who don't care to add them to the Lake. Travel wise it makes sense, but.... for everything else??? Now back to the discussion... Woodmore as of now it seems, is not likely to go to the SBC, if that doesn't happen everything stays as it is right now and all of this discussion is moot anyway
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 30, 2021 21:09:24 GMT -5
When you’re on top of the league like Bellevue, Clyde and TC have been, you don’t want to give that up. If Fremont Ross goes on an upswing in talent and goes on a 5-10 year run in football, Bellevue and Clyde would be none to happy they allowed them in their league. I think the better question is... why would a much larger school like Fremont, want to get in a league with 3 d4 schools and 3 d3 schools? I'd argue its more of an indictment on Fremont than the Lake schools who don't care to add them to the Lake. Travel wise it makes sense, but.... for everything else??? Now back to the discussion... Woodmore as of now it seems, is not likely to go to the SBC, if that doesn't happen everything stays as it is right now and all of this discussion is moot anyway Why did Tiffin want to join in 1953? Or Sandusky in 2011?
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 30, 2021 22:44:07 GMT -5
I asked because I would like to know myself.
Ok, forget about 1953. Move up to 1980 when Tiffin was DI/AAA in football/basketball in a league full of DIII/AA schools.
Or Sandusky when being DII/DI was the mode for NOL at the time. That's why I am not fully sold on enrollment when it comes to Ross.
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Post by kingmartinez on Mar 31, 2021 7:09:29 GMT -5
I asked because I would like to know myself. Ok, forget about 1953. Move up to 1980 when Tiffin was DI/AAA in football/basketball in a league full of DIII/AA schools. Or Sandusky when being DII/DI was the mode for NOL at the time. That's why I am not fully sold on enrollment when it comes to Ross. There’s more than just one reason but it does start with enrollment. Fremont is almost twice the size of half of the Lake schools.
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Post by BellevueBuckeye on Mar 31, 2021 7:22:29 GMT -5
Odd number bad. Even number good.
Crestline leave NOL, make odd number. Tiffin join NOL, make even number again.
Galion, Upper, Fostoria leave NOL, make odd number. Sandusky join NOL, make even number again.
Ontario join NOL, make odd number. League fall apart.
Fremont make Lake odd number if join. Affect Bay schedule too. Why SBC want that?
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 31, 2021 7:29:47 GMT -5
I asked because I would like to know myself. Ok, forget about 1953. Move up to 1980 when Tiffin was DI/AAA in football/basketball in a league full of DIII/AA schools. Or Sandusky when being DII/DI was the mode for NOL at the time. That's why I am not fully sold on enrollment when it comes to Ross. There’s more than just one reason but it does start with enrollment. Fremont is almost twice the size of half of the Lake schools. I don't buy it due to what I mentioned.
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Post by formerohiocoach on Mar 31, 2021 9:27:41 GMT -5
The reason for no Ross IMO is simple, the lake division is a meat grinder already. Sure Sandusky may have been down a bit this year but they will be back, Perkins will get better, Tiffin, Norwalk, Clyde, and Bellevue are very good football teams. Why would you add another school that is double in size to half of the schools just listed? Just look at it from a numbers standpoint, roster sizes may all be very similar however when you have 200 more boys to pick from that makes a difference. I get the point that some of these schools already play Ross in football, the fundamental difference is with the playoffs moving to 12 teams with the possibility to expand further in near future to play a bigger school in non-league play is not a huge deal. It becomes a bigger deal when you add that bigger school to the league and now you have to play them every year and the stakes are higher with league championships on the line. It can't always be the cut and dry, this team is geographically so close we should add them to the league. I have no dog in this fight but I do see the reasons that the lake may not want them in their division of the SBC. As for the main topic of this thread, why would it make any sense for OH to leave the SBC other than the opportunity to win league titles in football? Are they that much closer to schools in the NBC that it would warrant this move? Plus hasn't their football team been pretty competitive in the Bay division of the SBC for the past couple years and isn't Eastwood a very good football school right now? Just doesn't make sense to me to make that move and lose a league affiliation for several of the other sports that they offer.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2021 9:31:39 GMT -5
There’s more than just one reason but it does start with enrollment. Fremont is almost twice the size of half of the Lake schools. I don't buy it due to what I mentioned. you still never answered my question though. Why does Fremont need the SBC Lake so badly? We know the Lake doesn't need them.
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 31, 2021 10:12:57 GMT -5
I don't buy it due to what I mentioned. you still never answered my question though. Why does Fremont need the SBC Lake so badly? We know the Lake doesn't need them. Ross could compete against neighborhood schools. Anymore, more in common with Lake than TRAC. I do agree with you and BellevueBuckeye about Lake not needing Ross and/or odd number is not ideal.
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 31, 2021 10:13:42 GMT -5
you still never answered my question though. Why does Fremont need the SBC Lake so badly? We know the Lake doesn't need them. Ross could compete against neighborhood schools. Anymore, more in common with Lake than TRAC. I do agree with you and BellevueBuckeye about Lake not needing Ross and/or odd number is not ideal. I forgot the gates would be huge. IMHO.
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Post by sbclives on Mar 31, 2021 11:29:59 GMT -5
I don't buy it due to what I mentioned. you still never answered my question though. Why does Fremont need the SBC Lake so badly? We know the Lake doesn't need them. You’re right about the Lake not needing Fremont Ross as of right now. Obviously everyone is saying that IF Oak Harbor were to leave the SBC then someone from the Lake would get bumped down to Bay whether it be Bellevue or Clyde which means the Lake would need a school to fill that spot. At the end of the day I don’t see OH leaving the SBC or at least I hope not.
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Post by maplecityjake on Mar 31, 2021 11:55:16 GMT -5
The reason for no Ross IMO is simple, the lake division is a meat grinder already. Sure Sandusky may have been down a bit this year but they will be back, Perkins will get better, Tiffin, Norwalk, Clyde, and Bellevue are very good football teams. Why would you add another school that is double in size to half of the schools just listed? Just look at it from a numbers standpoint, roster sizes may all be very similar however when you have 200 more boys to pick from that makes a difference. I get the point that some of these schools already play Ross in football, the fundamental difference is with the playoffs moving to 12 teams with the possibility to expand further in near future to play a bigger school in non-league play is not a huge deal. It becomes a bigger deal when you add that bigger school to the league and now you have to play them every year and the stakes are higher with league championships on the line. It can't always be the cut and dry, this team is geographically so close we should add them to the league. I have no dog in this fight but I do see the reasons that the lake may not want them in their division of the SBC. As for the main topic of this thread, why would it make any sense for OH to leave the SBC other than the opportunity to win league titles in football? Are they that much closer to schools in the NBC that it would warrant this move? Plus hasn't their football team been pretty competitive in the Bay division of the SBC for the past couple years and isn't Eastwood a very good football school right now? Just doesn't make sense to me to make that move and lose a league affiliation for several of the other sports that they offer. Meat grinder, yes. But what is wrong with more competition to prepare schools for more Postseason success, especially Bellevue? I can assure you Ross doesn't have 200 more boys to "choose" from. I know Keith has often disagreed with me on this, but demographics/socioeconomically, it's just not the case.
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Post by 2112 on Mar 31, 2021 16:19:40 GMT -5
Okay, okay... I have come up with a solution on the Ross issue that will keep everybody happy (except Mr. Fillmore ;-) ):
SBC need to extend an invite to Ross contingent on the school district putting up a new high school and splitting the district between them. That puts both schools in the sweet spot for enrollment, keeps travel within the realm, and the Lake stays at an even number (even number good, league no fall apart lol).
BTW, the invite must stipulate that the new high school must be named Fremont Heinz, and that the school colors must be red & yellow. The design of logos, unis, and helmets will be left to the discretion of the district.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2021 17:48:57 GMT -5
you still never answered my question though. Why does Fremont need the SBC Lake so badly? We know the Lake doesn't need them. You’re right about the Lake not needing Fremont Ross as of right now. Obviously everyone is saying that IF Oak Harbor were to leave the SBC then someone from the Lake would get bumped down to Bay whether it be Bellevue or Clyde which means the Lake would need a school to fill that spot. At the end of the day I don’t see OH leaving the SBC or at least I hope not. I still don't know if they would go that way.... I could see them combining into a larger league with the Bay first. Or gauging madison and lexington's interest again (remember when they inquired about the league a few years ago, seems like a decade ago haha)
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Post by richrod on Mar 31, 2021 17:55:59 GMT -5
Isn't enrollment disparity a reason for the league shake-ups in NLL and NBC right now?
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Post by crimsonblooded on Mar 31, 2021 18:13:07 GMT -5
I think Fremont Ross coming in is only if Oak Harbor was to leave. Then they join the Lake with Perkins or Bellevue going to the Bay. If Oak Harbor stays then no movement.
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Post by Keith on Apr 1, 2021 9:33:54 GMT -5
I don't buy it due to what I mentioned. you still never answered my question though. Why does Fremont need the SBC Lake so badly? We know the Lake doesn't need them. Don't mistake one persons pushing for Ross to get into the SBC as a district-wide opinion. Also, just because I like this stuff, the last time Ross and Bellevue met on the gridiron was game one in 1942, a 42-0 Little Giant win. The last time Ross and Clyde played was in 1910, a 68-0 Ross win.
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Post by maplecityjake on Apr 1, 2021 11:13:20 GMT -5
you still never answered my question though. Why does Fremont need the SBC Lake so badly? We know the Lake doesn't need them. Don't mistake one persons pushing for Ross to get into the SBC as a district-wide opinion. Also, just because I like this stuff, the last time Ross and Bellevue met on the gridiron was game one in 1942, a 42-0 Little Giant win. The last time Ross and Clyde played was in 1910, a 68-0 Ross win. Keith is right; I'm selfish about the intent and also right about a fair amount desiring other than Lake such as NLL. Ironically, Ross and Norwalk last played in 1950. I say ironic given Norwalk is/was lesser history than other two and further from their Sandusky County counterparts, although in 1942, Bellevue Sr High was in Huron County.
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Post by maplecityjake on Apr 1, 2021 11:20:52 GMT -5
Meat grinder, yes. But what is wrong with more competition to prepare schools for more Postseason success, especially Bellevue? I can assure you Ross doesn't have 200 more boys to "choose" from. I know Keith has often disagreed with me on this, but demographics/socioeconomically, it's just not the case. Man you have a hard on for bellevue over this. lets not forget that they don't seem to be the only team in the Lake that isn't interested in Ross at this time. As for scheduling, I believe in 2018 Bellevue had the 4th toughest schedule in d4 according to Pasteur, and they didn't need Fremont to get it. Heck if you look there Bellevue and Clyde have top 15 schedules for d4 all the time. I also feel bellevue, clyde, tiffin, sandusky, and even norwalk now, and perkins in the past have had plenty of postseason success without having fremont on their schedules. the 200 more boys is an issue, it can give you depth and more numbers which are helpful for practice, especially if it promotes competition for positions. I also am curious how you can assure us they do not have 200 more boys to choose from? If Ross is needed to keep the Lake together I could see it happening as a last resort, but I'd argue BG has a better chance than Ross. I give Bellevue a difficult time because I would like Redmen to achieve more than underachieving from State Level. Seems like they like to take path of least resistance. When it was between Fostoria and Vermilion, Bellevue wanted latter. When Ashland was starting to get the upper hand in Football, suddenly, Arrows became too big. Anymore, I look at winning Conference Titles like Sectional Titles; not that huge a deal.
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Post by maplecityjake on Apr 1, 2021 13:48:43 GMT -5
You’re right about the Lake not needing Fremont Ross as of right now. Obviously everyone is saying that IF Oak Harbor were to leave the SBC then someone from the Lake would get bumped down to Bay whether it be Bellevue or Clyde which means the Lake would need a school to fill that spot. At the end of the day I don’t see OH leaving the SBC or at least I hope not. I still don't know if they would go that way.... I could see them combining into a larger league with the Bay first. Or gauging madison and lexington's interest again (remember when they inquired about the league a few years ago, seems like a decade ago haha) isn't Madison DI, at least most sports i.e. Basketball?
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Post by sbclives on Apr 1, 2021 14:44:54 GMT -5
I guess what it all comes down to is that these 12 north central Ohio schools need each other. There is just no other good fit for any of them at this time. The Lake and Bay have it good right now as is and there’s no reason to make major changes when none need to be made.
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