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Post by dude on Dec 24, 2022 7:08:14 GMT -5
League strength can always be the start for a team to get better. This from a person that wanted Lex in the moac? You are confused. Lexington likes the competition in all sports the OCC provides. Lexington has not been in favor of the idea of being in a league with members over 70 miles away. It's that simple. Don't forget the last place Mansfield team(5-15) in the OCC last season beat the #1 Shelby team(19-3) in the MOAC in their first game in tournament last season. When the MOAC teams look to schedule tougher competition they call OCC schools. When the OCC looks to do it, they call Lima Sr, Trotwood Madison, Sandusky, OG, Marysville, Gahanna Lincoln. IMO, a league can make you better or it can give you comfort and you need to get better from the outside.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Dec 24, 2022 7:38:19 GMT -5
That's the pained truth with the scheduling.
The OCC is Shelby's Work Wife. Good bond, enjoy doing our business with each other, and then go and tell the MOAC that it's just a coworker.
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Post by dude on Dec 24, 2022 8:32:44 GMT -5
That's the pained truth with the scheduling. The OCC is Shelby's Work Wife. Good bond, enjoy doing our business with each other, and then go and tell the MOAC that it's just a coworker. Shelby's has a historically losing record against it's "working wife" while they have arguable dominated the MOAC.
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MOAC 22-23
Dec 24, 2022 14:45:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by richrod on Dec 24, 2022 14:45:54 GMT -5
That's the pained truth with the scheduling. The OCC is Shelby's Work Wife. Good bond, enjoy doing our business with each other, and then go and tell the MOAC that it's just a coworker. Shelby's has a historically losing record against it's "working wife" while they have arguable dominated the MOAC. Honestly, it pains me to say it but, the MOAC I'd a weak athletic conference. At least right now it is, just not enough solid teams top to bottom in the money sports
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Post by dude on Dec 24, 2022 15:10:34 GMT -5
Honestly, it pains me to say it but, the MOAC I'd a weak athletic conference. At least right now it is, just not enough solid teams top to bottom in the money sports It provides for local travel and that's the greatest benefit. Looking at the MOAC and OCC top to bottom, the #7 team in the OCC (Ashland) could give the #2 team (Mansfield) a competitive game. In the MOAC the #7 team lost by 30pts to the #2 team (RV)
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Post by moacpops on Dec 24, 2022 15:50:38 GMT -5
History is an important perspective for the MOAC. 15-20 years ago, the original MOAC teams that are still MOAC members (Pleasant, Highland, River Valley) were really good in the money sports. Pleasant was a state title contending football team and all three schools had regional/state level basketball teams. The downturn in athletics in the money sports at those schools hurts the overall conference strength.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 25, 2022 17:42:42 GMT -5
So much for the next 6 easy wins…Splash Brothers/Galion start off their ‘easy’ part of their schedule with a 75-66 loss to Mt Gilead. Galion lost to the same Mt Gilead team that lost 59-27 to Fredericktown? Marion Harding 50 Big Walnut 47 And Highland beat the Freddies,
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 25, 2022 17:44:28 GMT -5
Not too intelligent to compare teams when only about 20% of a schedule has been played.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 25, 2022 17:51:34 GMT -5
History is an important perspective for the MOAC. 15-20 years ago, the original MOAC teams that are still MOAC members (Pleasant, Highland, River Valley) were really good in the money sports. Pleasant was a state title contending football team and all three schools had regional/state level basketball teams. The downturn in athletics in the money sports at those schools hurts the overall conference strength. Highland had two 7-footers, a guard who set state 3-point shooting records and a very good coach. Pleasant had a run of great athletes and they didn't stay in the school district and reproduce. Ontario most always beat RV those days. The smaller the school district the more cyclical talent can be. AND ask any coach worth his salt,,,,talent is THE first requirement. A good coach can improve a below average player into average, average into above average and above average into good. NO coach can turn a below average athlete into a good player.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 25, 2022 17:55:45 GMT -5
Ontario had a young football team this year and has a young basketball team. Hopefully they'll continue to improve. And I saw the best Junior high basketball player I've ever seen at Ontario and he's currently a 7th grader.
Their 7th grade class is very talented. Ontario beat Shelby by 2 TDs in football I believe and that was by far their closest game. Thus far no one has gotten within 20 points of the basketball team and the starters are only playing about half the game. I am well aware that the success of Junior High teams does not necessarily equate to wins in high school AND the best athletes sometimes go elsewhere. But a few of these young kids look like they could be quite good.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 25, 2022 19:47:28 GMT -5
This from a person that wanted Lex in the moac? You are confused. Lexington likes the competition in all sports the OCC provides. Lexington has not been in favor of the idea of being in a league with members over 70 miles away. It's that simple. Don't forget the last place Mansfield team(5-15) in the OCC last season beat the #1 Shelby team(19-3) in the MOAC in their first game in tournament last season. When the MOAC teams look to schedule tougher competition they call OCC schools. When the OCC looks to do it, they call Lima Sr, Trotwood Madison, Sandusky, OG, Marysville, Gahanna Lincoln. IMO, a league can make you better or it can give you comfort and you need to get better from the outside. Nonsense per usual! Why in the heck shouldn't the MOAC look to the OCC to schedule up?? The average size of MOAC schools is 191, the OCC average is 285. AND Harding is an outlier. Without Harding the MOAC average is 148. The OCC average is almost twice that of MOAC schools. SO if Galion, CF and Pleasant scheduled Lima Senior, Trotwood Madison, Sandusky, OG, Marysville and Gahanna Lincoln, in 10 years they'd be winning District Titles on a regular basis?? ROFL, I'm willing to bet $1000 they'd be in New London's dire straits instead. UNLESS Lexington and Senior's studs open enrolled to those MOAC schools. Dudette, you really should do some homework before bloviating.
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MOAC 22-23
Dec 25, 2022 20:09:17 GMT -5
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Post by whippetfan on Dec 25, 2022 20:09:17 GMT -5
Shelby had a solid win over Linsley, a prep school out of Wheeling, WV at a holiday tournament at The Naz on Thursday. Very athletic team that we had to go to OT to beat. Whippets play Mansfield Senior on Wednesday so this is a good out of conference test. First week of January they play Ashland and Wooster which should also provide a strong test. Will know more about this team after that but I like what I see now. Good first round wins at home over the better teams in the conference but doesn’t mean anything unless you can go on the road and win at their place.
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Post by 419bossman on Dec 25, 2022 20:37:37 GMT -5
Games for the Week of 12/26-12/31
Tuesday December 27th Galion at Northmor Highland vs. Cols. Horizon Science at the Highland Holiday Tournament at Highland HS Lexington at Ontario
Wednesday December 28th Clear Fork at Fredericktown Highland vs. Cardington at the Highland Holiday Tournament at Highland HS Harding at Upper Sandusky Ontario at Madison Cols. DeSales at River Valley Mansfield Sr. at Shelby Friday December 30th Clear Fork at Northmor Harding at Kenton
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 25, 2022 21:35:47 GMT -5
Shelby had a solid win over Linsley, a prep school out of Wheeling, WV at a holiday tournament at The Naz on Thursday. Very athletic team that we had to go to OT to beat. Whippets play Mansfield Senior on Wednesday so this is a good out of conference test. First week of January they play Ashland and Wooster which should also provide a strong test. Will know more about this team after that but I like what I see now. Good first round wins at home over the better teams in the conference but doesn’t mean anything unless you can go on the road and win at their place. It's been said....you can't win a league title during the first round of league play, but you can lose one.
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Post by dude on Dec 25, 2022 22:10:08 GMT -5
Shelby had a solid win over Linsley, a prep school out of Wheeling, WV at a holiday tournament at The Naz on Thursday. Very athletic team that we had to go to OT to beat. Whippets play Mansfield Senior on Wednesday so this is a good out of conference test. First week of January they play Ashland and Wooster which should also provide a strong test. Will know more about this team after that but I like what I see now. Good first round wins at home over the better teams in the conference but doesn’t mean anything unless you can go on the road and win at their place. Linsly also played the night before at The Naz. Did you hear how the team did in that game? I did see they won their game on Tuesday.
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Post by whippetfan on Dec 26, 2022 9:35:26 GMT -5
Shelby had a solid win over Linsley, a prep school out of Wheeling, WV at a holiday tournament at The Naz on Thursday. Very athletic team that we had to go to OT to beat. Whippets play Mansfield Senior on Wednesday so this is a good out of conference test. First week of January they play Ashland and Wooster which should also provide a strong test. Will know more about this team after that but I like what I see now. Good first round wins at home over the better teams in the conference but doesn’t mean anything unless you can go on the road and win at their place. Linsly also played the night before at The Naz. Did you hear how the team did in that game? I did see they won their game on Tuesday. I thought I saw their other game at The Naz was cancelled.
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Post by edchambers on Dec 26, 2022 10:40:07 GMT -5
Shelby had a solid win over Linsley, a prep school out of Wheeling, WV at a holiday tournament at The Naz on Thursday. Very athletic team that we had to go to OT to beat. Whippets play Mansfield Senior on Wednesday so this is a good out of conference test. First week of January they play Ashland and Wooster which should also provide a strong test. Will know more about this team after that but I like what I see now. Good first round wins at home over the better teams in the conference but doesn’t mean anything unless you can go on the road and win at their place. Linsly also played the night before at The Naz. Did you hear how the team did in that game? I did see they won their game on Tuesday. Linsly's game against Grand River Academy at MVNU was canceled. Linsly lost by 16 to Medina back on 12/17 followed by an easy win over D3 Fort Frye.
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Post by moacpops on Dec 26, 2022 15:18:23 GMT -5
Games for the Week of 12/26-12/31 Tuesday December 27th Galion at Northmor Highland vs. Cols. Horizon Science at the Highland Holiday Tournament at Highland HS Lexington at Ontario Wednesday December 28th Clear Fork at Fredericktown Highland vs. Cardington at the Highland Holiday Tournament at Highland HS Harding at Upper Sandusky Ontario at Madison Cols. DeSales at River Valley Mansfield Sr. at Shelby Friday December 30th Clear Fork at Northmor Harding at Kenton With all the discussion about the strength of the MOAC, the conference teams have an opportunity this week to prove themselves vs non-conference teams.
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Post by dude on Dec 26, 2022 15:47:04 GMT -5
Linsly also played the night before at The Naz. Did you hear how the team did in that game? I did see they won their game on Tuesday. I thought I saw their other game at The Naz was cancelled. Very possible and I do not know who they played. I did see that on their schedule they had games Tues-Wed-Thurs.
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Post by dude on Dec 26, 2022 15:48:00 GMT -5
Linsly also played the night before at The Naz. Did you hear how the team did in that game? I did see they won their game on Tuesday. Linsly's game against Grand River Academy at MVNU was canceled. Linsly lost by 16 to Medina back on 12/17 followed by an easy win over D3 Fort Frye. I think Fort Frye was who I saw they played on Tuesday.
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Post by ohioraised on Dec 26, 2022 18:48:47 GMT -5
You are confused. Lexington likes the competition in all sports the OCC provides. Lexington has not been in favor of the idea of being in a league with members over 70 miles away. It's that simple. Don't forget the last place Mansfield team(5-15) in the OCC last season beat the #1 Shelby team(19-3) in the MOAC in their first game in tournament last season. When the MOAC teams look to schedule tougher competition they call OCC schools. When the OCC looks to do it, they call Lima Sr, Trotwood Madison, Sandusky, OG, Marysville, Gahanna Lincoln. IMO, a league can make you better or it can give you comfort and you need to get better from the outside. Nonsense per usual! Why in the heck shouldn't the MOAC look to the OCC to schedule up?? The average size of MOAC schools is 191, the OCC average is 285. AND Harding is an outlier. Without Harding the MOAC average is 148. The OCC average is almost twice that of MOAC schools. SO if Galion, CF and Pleasant scheduled Lima Senior, Trotwood Madison, Sandusky, OG, Marysville and Gahanna Lincoln, in 10 years they'd be winning District Titles on a regular basis?? ROFL, I'm willing to bet $1000 they'd be in New London's dire straits instead. UNLESS Lexington and Senior's studs open enrolled to those MOAC schools. Dudette, you really should do some homework before bloviating. It is nonsense to include Pleasant in your calculations to help your point. You can exclude Marion to make your point then take out Pleasant. They are much smaller compared to the other schools which shows by the different divisions in sports. It's unsure what numbers you are using but if you total the male enrollment for all MOAC schools w/o Marion the average is 212. IF you remove the largest OCC school their average is 337. oth would fall inside the D2 level of schools. I said a similar thing when the Clear Fork football coach was very vocal about changing to the MOAC. Are we searching for wins or are we searching for better competition.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 26, 2022 21:19:20 GMT -5
I just KNEW you or your boyfriend would whine about this, AND I was REALLY hoping you would. So that I could show your rationals are worse than nonsense. With Harding the difference between the largest and smallest in the MOAC is almost 300%. The difference between the largest and smallest in the OCC 50%. First grade math and your intellect wasn't good enough to see it. THANK YOU!!!!
I do not know what #s you are using, but what I am using are the ACTUAL 2022 boys enrollment taken from the OHSAA website, which would be THE correct numbers to use. Everyone knows, other than location, Harding, is an oddball in the MOAC.
The OCC has 2 schools larger than Harding. The OCC has 4 MORE schools larger than Ontario, the MOAC's 2nd largest school. The OCC only has 1 school smaller than 300, West Holmes. The MOAC has SEVEN schools smaller than 300. ONLY Harding has more than 300.
The MOAC has 1 DI School, 6 DII schools and 1 DIII school. The OCC has 3 DI schools, no DIII schools and 5 DII schools HOWEVER, Madison is 5 under under DI, Senior is 6 under and New Philly is 9 under. The MOAC's largest DII is Ontario and they are 90 boys under DI.
THINK about it. Enrollment wise the 2 leagues are quite dissimilar.
Clear Fork wanted to play in a league with similar schools. You think Clear Fork playing in the OCC this year would have gotten them a win over Elyria Catholic in the playoffs?? LOL Playing basketball in the OCC would get them even demoralized then they usually are by the end of the season.
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Post by ohioraised on Dec 27, 2022 7:53:48 GMT -5
I just KNEW you or your boyfriend would whine about this, AND I was REALLY hoping you would. So that I could show your rationals are worse than nonsense. With Harding the difference between the largest and smallest in the MOAC is almost 300%. The difference between the largest and smallest in the OCC 50%. First grade math and your intellect wasn't good enough to see it. THANK YOU!!!! I do not know what #s you are using, but what I am using are the ACTUAL 2022 boys enrollment taken from the OHSAA website, which would be THE correct numbers to use. Everyone knows, other than location, Harding, is an oddball in the MOAC. The OCC has 2 schools larger than Harding. The OCC has 4 MORE schools larger than Ontario, the MOAC's 2nd largest school. The OCC only has 1 school smaller than 300, West Holmes. The MOAC has SEVEN schools smaller than 300. ONLY Harding has more than 300. The MOAC has 1 DI School, 6 DII schools and 1 DIII school. The OCC has 3 DI schools, no DIII schools and 5 DII schools HOWEVER, Madison is 5 under under DI, Senior is 6 under and New Philly is 9 under. The MOAC's largest DII is Ontario and they are 90 boys under DI. THINK about it. Enrollment wise the 2 leagues are quite dissimilar. Clear Fork wanted to play in a league with similar schools. You think Clear Fork playing in the OCC this year would have gotten them a win over Elyria Catholic in the playoffs?? LOL Playing basketball in the OCC would get them even demoralized then they usually are by the end of the season. Richard you are a grumpy, old, lonely man just full of insults. Here are the OHSAA numbers that I saw (no Marion) Pleasant 144 Highland 198 Clear Fork 205 Galion 206 River Valley 225 Shelby 247 Ontario 259 How many games in the MOAC prepared them for Elyria? Clear Fork went 0-23 last year playing in the MOAC. That never happened in the OCC.
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Post by dude on Dec 27, 2022 7:56:51 GMT -5
Richard you are a grumpy, old, lonely man just full of insults. Here are the OHSAA numbers that I saw (no Marion) Pleasant 144 Highland 198 Clear Fork 205 Galion 206 River Valley 225 Shelby 247 Ontario 259 How many games in the MOAC prepared them for Elyria? Clear Fork went 0-23 last year playing in the MOAC. That never happened in the OCC. Just block him like everyone else.
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Post by sportsfan15 on Dec 27, 2022 8:25:00 GMT -5
Nonsense per usual! Why in the heck shouldn't the MOAC look to the OCC to schedule up?? The average size of MOAC schools is 191, the OCC average is 285. AND Harding is an outlier. Without Harding the MOAC average is 148. The OCC average is almost twice that of MOAC schools. SO if Galion, CF and Pleasant scheduled Lima Senior, Trotwood Madison, Sandusky, OG, Marysville and Gahanna Lincoln, in 10 years they'd be winning District Titles on a regular basis?? ROFL, I'm willing to bet $1000 they'd be in New London's dire straits instead. UNLESS Lexington and Senior's studs open enrolled to those MOAC schools. Dudette, you really should do some homework before bloviating. It is nonsense to include Pleasant in your calculations to help your point. You can exclude Marion to make your point then take out Pleasant. They are much smaller compared to the other schools which shows by the different divisions in sports. It's unsure what numbers you are using but if you total the male enrollment for all MOAC schools w/o Marion the average is 212. IF you remove the largest OCC school their average is 337. oth would fall inside the D2 level of schools. I said a similar thing when the Clear Fork football coach was very vocal about changing to the MOAC. Are we searching for wins or are we searching for better competition. He was searching for wins, personal success. However, I think it is safe to say the move benefited nearly all programs on a competitive level except for Football, Girls Soccer, Girls Softball and Boys Baseball.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 27, 2022 10:39:29 GMT -5
I'm not searching for anything, as it is impossible for me or any fan to have anything to do with who sports teams play. Unlike some on here, I don't pretend to know much about most schools and their teams in North Central Ohio other than Ontario. Except for the facts and data that are available to anyone who cares to search for them.
ALL schools try to find leagues they are most comfortable being a part of, for many reasons, for hopefully MANY decades. Not just this year or next. ASK head coaches why their teams have the schedules they do. As ADs schedule the schools their head coaches would like to see on their out of conference schedules. It is THEIR choice, for their reasons.
What "move"?
It is impossible to find a league that "benefits" all sports teams equally. That is what non-league scheduling can do.
"Personal success"? I have had MUCH more than any normal human being could possibly hope for. None of which had anything to do with high school sports schedules.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 27, 2022 11:00:51 GMT -5
I just KNEW you or your boyfriend would whine about this, AND I was REALLY hoping you would. So that I could show your rationals are worse than nonsense. With Harding the difference between the largest and smallest in the MOAC is almost 300%. The difference between the largest and smallest in the OCC 50%. First grade math and your intellect wasn't good enough to see it. THANK YOU!!!! I do not know what #s you are using, but what I am using are the ACTUAL 2022 boys enrollment taken from the OHSAA website, which would be THE correct numbers to use. Everyone knows, other than location, Harding, is an oddball in the MOAC. The OCC has 2 schools larger than Harding. The OCC has 4 MORE schools larger than Ontario, the MOAC's 2nd largest school. The OCC only has 1 school smaller than 300, West Holmes. The MOAC has SEVEN schools smaller than 300. ONLY Harding has more than 300. The MOAC has 1 DI School, 6 DII schools and 1 DIII school. The OCC has 3 DI schools, no DIII schools and 5 DII schools HOWEVER, Madison is 5 under under DI, Senior is 6 under and New Philly is 9 under. The MOAC's largest DII is Ontario and they are 90 boys under DI. THINK about it. Enrollment wise the 2 leagues are quite dissimilar. Clear Fork wanted to play in a league with similar schools. You think Clear Fork playing in the OCC this year would have gotten them a win over Elyria Catholic in the playoffs?? LOL Playing basketball in the OCC would get them even demoralized then they usually are by the end of the season. Richard you are a grumpy, old, lonely man just full of insults. Here are the OHSAA numbers that I saw (no Marion) Pleasant 144 Highland 198 Clear Fork 205 Galion 206 River Valley 225 Shelby 247 Ontario 259 How many games in the MOAC prepared them for Elyria? Clear Fork went 0-23 last year playing in the MOAC. That never happened in the OCC. "grumpy, old, lonely man who is full of insults". That short sentence had more personal insults in it than the entirety of my posts on this subject. You win, I can't compete with that. All of which is untrue, if you REALLY know me. As your silly and unethical use of a first name suggests. PLEASE don't take this personal, but you just proved you know very little on this subject. Elyria CATHOLIC is the team Clear Fork played and lost to 42-14 in the FOOTBALL playoffs THIS season. Which had absolutely nothing to do with Clear Fork's BASKETBALL record of LAST season. That 0-23 record would also have happened playing in the OCC, with beat downs being worse. Surely you don't think playing in the OCC would lead to Clear Fork having a better basketball program OR help them beat Elyria CATHOLIC in football??
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 27, 2022 11:41:35 GMT -5
Richard you are a grumpy, old, lonely man just full of insults. Here are the OHSAA numbers that I saw (no Marion) Pleasant 144 Highland 198 Clear Fork 205 Galion 206 River Valley 225 Shelby 247 Ontario 259 How many games in the MOAC prepared them for Elyria? Clear Fork went 0-23 last year playing in the MOAC. That never happened in the OCC. Just block him like everyone else. Like YOU did, "everyone else" is in fact another of your bald faced LIES. You did it because I proved you wrong multiple times. Namely twice involving incidents with fans at Lex basketball games. You know the ones. I have no problem in continuing to point out the errors of your ways. Be a man and have open discussions with those you lose debates, instead of waiting for others to quote a post, then making a one way only snide remark.
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Post by Big Lex Fan on Dec 27, 2022 11:57:49 GMT -5
Not to change the subject but Lexington at Ontario has been postponed. Due to water main break at Ontario High School.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 27, 2022 12:28:15 GMT -5
It is nonsense to include Pleasant in your calculations to help your point. You can exclude Marion to make your point then take out Pleasant. They are much smaller compared to the other schools which shows by the different divisions in sports. It's unsure what numbers you are using but if you total the male enrollment for all MOAC schools w/o Marion the average is 212. IF you remove the largest OCC school their average is 337. oth would fall inside the D2 level of schools. I said a similar thing when the Clear Fork football coach was very vocal about changing to the MOAC. Are we searching for wins or are we searching for better competition. No more than your nonsense of disallowing Harding(425), which is much larger than other schools in the MOAC. As there are no 300's. Closest is Ontario with 259. Making Harding 63% larger than the 2nd largest in the league. Pleasant is a long time member of the MOAC. For many years successfully competing well above what their enrollment numbers would indicate. Harding is a johnny come lately based solely on proximity, not enrollment and a promise made years ago by Marion County schools. Personally I want Harding in the MOAC for the competition they bring in some sports. As I wanted Lex in the MOAC Unlike many I admit an error after reanalyzing. I used OHSAA enrollment numbers, but for some unknown reason used the incorrect divisor when making hand calculations. Current average enrollments all schools included: OCC = 356, MOAC = 238 Average enrollments without largest school: OCC = 341 MOAC = 212 Average enrollments without smallest school: OCC = 374, MOAC = 252 Average enrollments without largest & smallest: OCC = 342, MOAC = 223 Averaging all four examples: OCC = 353, MOAC = 231 In all cases a rather significant disparity. That's it, just numbers, but I love numbers and what they bring to the table.
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