|
Post by dude on Nov 17, 2022 14:25:01 GMT -5
That would be terrible. Relationships have been torched at this point. In an interview he states he received a phone call from a parent the day of their tournament game, complaining about their son needing to be more involved. He said this phone call lasted for an hour. Complaining parent calls on game day may last 15-20 minutes but not an hour. This is not someone just calling to complain. For that call to last an hour and it to be made on game day, it is someone close to the coach and who has been in conversations with the HC already. complaining parent calling on gameday gets hung up on immediately...what the heck is wrong with these parents? That's what makes me think it was someone close to the coach who maybe he knew very well and had history with.
|
|
|
Post by moacpops on Nov 17, 2022 16:36:58 GMT -5
If the actions of the coach after the Upper game were a fireable offense, why was he not fired after that game, before the next playoff game? Are the actions that night similar to what other coaches, teachers, and principals do; if so, why was he fired? What I dislike the most if the story is correct is he was not given the opportunity to defend himself to the board. The board listened to complaints and parents points of view without hearing all sides of the story? Guilty people resign when offers to resign are given. It’s a way to push the negative story from public view. He said he wouldnt resign. My other question is who wants this job long-term? Tradition, facilities, community support, athletes are there but make angry the wrong person and you’re gone even when winning championships. Short term resume builder for the next coach I think.
|
|
|
Post by dolittle on Nov 17, 2022 21:59:16 GMT -5
So now the BOE says tonight that nothing before tonight was discussed?!? Yeah right.
|
|
|
Post by sportsfan15 on Nov 17, 2022 22:20:35 GMT -5
So now the BOE says tonight that nothing before tonight was discussed?!? Yeah right. Looking at the schools website it looks like the meeting held last week was a special meeting about obtaining a contract for educational services through MOESC conducted at their facility in Mansfield. It's not impossible that an executive session was held that night, however it would seem improbable in that setting.
|
|
|
Post by sportsfan15 on Nov 17, 2022 22:24:44 GMT -5
If the actions of the coach after the Upper game were a fireable offense, why was he not fired after that game, before the next playoff game? Are the actions that night similar to what other coaches, teachers, and principals do; if so, why was he fired? What I dislike the most if the story is correct is he was not given the opportunity to defend himself to the board. The board listened to complaints and parents points of view without hearing all sides of the story? Guilty people resign when offers to resign are given. It’s a way to push the negative story from public view. He said he wouldnt resign. My other question is who wants this job long-term? Tradition, facilities, community support, athletes are there but make angry the wrong person and you’re gone even when winning championships. Short term resume builder for the next coach I think. I hope for the sake of the program it does not become a destination for stepping stone type coaches. With the tradition that exists at CF, I would have to imagine there are other alumni out their in the coaching ranks that may be interested in returning home just as Carroll did. I can think of a few down individuals that have been around in local schools.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 17, 2022 23:26:50 GMT -5
If the actions of the coach after the Upper game were a fireable offense, why was he not fired after that game, before the next playoff game? Are the actions that night similar to what other coaches, teachers, and principals do; if so, why was he fired? What I dislike the most if the story is correct is he was not given the opportunity to defend himself to the board. The board listened to complaints and parents points of view without hearing all sides of the story? Guilty people resign when offers to resign are given. It’s a way to push the negative story from public view. He said he wouldnt resign. My other question is who wants this job long-term? Tradition, facilities, community support, athletes are there but make angry the wrong person and you’re gone even when winning championships. Short term resume builder for the next coach I think. I hope for the sake of the program it does not become a destination for stepping stone type coaches. With the tradition that exists at CF, I would have to imagine there are other alumni out their in the coaching ranks that may be interested in returning home just as Carroll did. I can think of a few down individuals that have been around in local schools. Because coming home worked out so well for Carroll?
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 17, 2022 23:28:56 GMT -5
So now the BOE says tonight that nothing before tonight was discussed?!? Yeah right. Sounds a bit odd that the coach was called in and told by the principal and AD he was not going to be renewed, but nothing had ever been discussed.
|
|
|
Post by sportsfan15 on Nov 18, 2022 9:07:57 GMT -5
I hope for the sake of the program it does not become a destination for stepping stone type coaches. With the tradition that exists at CF, I would have to imagine there are other alumni out their in the coaching ranks that may be interested in returning home just as Carroll did. I can think of a few down individuals that have been around in local schools. Because coming home worked out so well for Carroll? 14 years is a long tenure. you yourself have mentioned antics you have heard about on this forum and to some severity of the rumors. key word being rumors. So dont act surprised it ultimately did not work out.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 18, 2022 9:32:34 GMT -5
Because coming home worked out so well for Carroll? 14 years is a long tenure. you yourself have mentioned antics you have heard about on this forum and to some severity of the rumors. key word being rumors. So dont act surprised it ultimately did not work out. My surprise is that this coach has been coaching the same way for 14 years at Clear Fork. NOW, it's a problem?
|
|
|
Post by ohioraised on Nov 18, 2022 9:34:08 GMT -5
This man was not fired for how he coached the team. He was released because he upset someone who has access to the people officially in charge.
|
|
mcm1019
All Conference
Posts: 474
Member is Online
|
Post by mcm1019 on Nov 18, 2022 9:36:50 GMT -5
14 years is a long tenure. you yourself have mentioned antics you have heard about on this forum and to some severity of the rumors. key word being rumors. So dont act surprised it ultimately did not work out. My surprise is that this coach has been coaching the same way for 14 years at Clear Fork. NOW, it's a problem? it only takes a few upset or delusional parents to make things happen...they get into the ear of a school board member or somebody on the Administrative team who doesn't have the guts to shut it down...and next thing you know the coach is gone. I'm not at all familiar with Clear Fork or this situation, but I saw it in Norwalk when a few parents tried to run Steve Gray a few seasons after he won a State title in basketball. Parents are just out of control nowadays.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 18, 2022 9:49:46 GMT -5
My surprise is that this coach has been coaching the same way for 14 years at Clear Fork. NOW, it's a problem? it only takes a few upset or delusional parents to make things happen...they get into the ear of a school board member or somebody on the Administrative team who doesn't have the guts to shut it down...and next thing you know the coach is gone. I'm not at all familiar with Clear Fork or this situation, but I saw it in Norwalk when a few parents tried to run Steve Gray a few seasons after he won a State title in basketball. Parents are just out of control nowadays. Exactly. There have been some parents complaining about this coach for 13 years and he was always rehired. The only thing is see that has changed is who the parent is.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 18, 2022 9:55:50 GMT -5
Jeff Swank reported this from last nights school board meeting - "Clear Fork Board of Education moved tonight to officially non renew the contact for football coach Dave Carroll without comment. A statement was read before the meeting saying they did not discuss his future last week as was erroneously reported by the media."
Then how did the AD and Principal have a meeting with this coach telling him he was not renewed?
|
|
|
Post by baldref on Nov 18, 2022 10:13:41 GMT -5
taking Jeff Swank reported this from last nights school board meeting - " Clear Fork Board of Education moved tonight to officially non renew the contact for football coach Dave Carroll without comment. A statement was read before the meeting saying they did not discuss his future last week as was erroneously reported by the media." Then how did the AD and Principal have a meeting with this coach telling him he was not renewed? Yep, just out of the blue they canned him without comment. Never discussed at last week's meeting Then the question begs -- when and how was it discussed? Me thinks this statement is an attempt to curtail any possible lawsuit for a possible violation of the state sunshine law. WAs there an executive session at last week's meeting? Was it announced on the public agenda and the reason for such session stated ( employment, lawsuit etc.). My guess would be the powers that be got together via phone etc, and started the ball rolling. Remember, three members constitutes a meeting of the board, whether its done at the local pub or wherever. These things are always messy, especially when outsiders like parents get involved. Coach Carroll probably would have been better off keeping his mouth shut and taking the "high road" and let his backers ask the questions and point fingers.
|
|
|
Post by moacpops on Nov 18, 2022 14:49:08 GMT -5
This seems to be another situation where the Superintendent, Principal, and AD didn’t stand up to the board members. Did those individuals sacrifice Carroll to stay on the good side of the board members?
|
|
|
Post by runriot742 on Nov 19, 2022 22:19:22 GMT -5
There's lot to digest here. To my knowledge there was no executive meeting or emergency meeting post Upper Sandusky Game. Further, there was no incident wherein three or more school board members to constitute a meeting. However, there were a series of conversations wherein alumni, former players, and parents of such made their voices heard. There have been complaints to the board for years. However, this appears to be the first schoolboard that took those concerns seriously.
The comments about an official response being a non-response are in my gut correct insofar as they don't want to open themselves to liability concerning a suit.
Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
There are a lot of things which were not brought to light however, I do think it is telling that the District Coach of the year was non-renewed/fired after such a successful season. The Clear Fork Valley is a rather "closed" society wherein it prefers to handle things in house. Which is why, the complainants allowed for Dave to have a bully pulpit with both Jake Furr and Jeff Swank, without a response. Perhaps, regardless of wins, they were confident that their stance was of character. Also, perhaps, somethings weren't brought to public in order to protect those who brought the claims or the hard conversations to be made.
I think it is also telling that at the 11/17 board meeting, neither Dave or any of his supporters showed face and advocated for him.
Hypothetically would you want a coach if he did any of the following: 1). ignored concussion protocol and sent players back to the field of play when they were unable to answer basic questions about time/date/location? 2). Padlocked doors with children inside in order to have conversations and coerce to continue to play for him? 3). Force a player back onto the field, accuse him of faking injuries, only later to be revealed he has a broken neck? 4). Force a player to play with torn shoulders until he had to have surgery and render him essentially disabled for certain blue-collar jobs he was seeking? 5). Denigrate and belittle assistants in front of the players to where players feel the need to question their head coach? 6). Be so unconcerned about player safety that underclassmen pledged to either not play or transfer? 7). That uses the pronoun I in media interviews upon a win however, have a noticeable difference and use of the royal WE/They upon a loss when talking to the media? 8). Accuse a player of being a p*S*y for being hurt at the end of the first half, only to later realize they had to be evaluated for broken ribs and a possible punctured lung? 9). Have an assistant coach turnover so bad that you had entire new coaching staffs in back-to-back years?
Why would anyone fire the district coach of the year, unless it was about player safety? Or some egregious Coach conduct. There was no giant conspiracy. There was nothing questioning the toughness of the kids or their parents. There were no complaints about playing time, or a coach being too hard.
Those that advocated for this, did not run to the papers. Nor did they write to Jake Furr or Jeff Swank. Rather, they were canaries in the coal mine. Quietly, yet persistently, chirping, for the kids of the valley. Eventually, the board and others looked into and took those concerns sincerely.
The canaries, aside from me, were some of the toughest guys to play for Clear Fork. They played for Beal, Sparks, Beans, etc. They never complained. A lot of them were All-Ohioans. All of them were All JAC, MAC, OCC. An even more impressive percentage of them were special forces in the military. A non-insignificant of them were coaches that have privately stated they were not going to apply for the coaching job so that there is not an appearance of impropriety. Because the collective of individuals that were canaries do not care about anything other than the wellbeing of these kids and the program.
The people that reached out to the board were tough guys. Good people. Good dads, brothers, sons. All they ever wanted is to see the program to succeed. But succeed with integrity and not at the expense of character.
Facially, it appears as if it is led to believe the Valley is soft and controlled by parents. However, if the media cared to dig deeper, I believe they would discover a more robust reason as to why Dave was let go. I believe it was irresponsible for the media to publish a bully pulpit for Dave. The valley is neither of those things. The valley is filled with people who care and who want to win. The valley is filled with people who want to win a state title. They are not filled with people who are going to stand idly by while their sons are sacrificed for a small man's ego. Yet, none of the media asked those questions.
Hopefully, when the job is posted, there are many applicants, and in doing so, applicants ask tough questions about why the previous coach was let go. And with the answers--and they're satisfied-- they move forward and continue the Clear Fork Winning tradition. Further, I hope they keep certain traditions such as the ghost writer program, the flags, the open locker room, etc. These were good traditions.
I hope this gives some context.
Go Colts!
|
|
|
Post by moacpops on Nov 19, 2022 23:12:02 GMT -5
Thanks for the post. Well written. My question would be did all of those things you listed happen this season? And if they did, why was the coaching change not made during the season if the mental and physical health and well-being of the students were being jeopardized?
|
|
|
Post by fanofthegame on Nov 19, 2022 23:46:52 GMT -5
Two comments.
When I moved my office from Shelby to Ontario I got a lot of people from Bellville. They are good people. You can never say always or never, but in general my impression is very positive.
My good buddies are the chain gang in Shelby. They are old school guys. They also see lots of coaches’ approaches, good and bad. They’ve had negative things to say about him at times.
|
|
|
Post by runriot742 on Nov 20, 2022 0:02:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the post. Well written. My question would be did all of those things you listed happen this season? And if they did, why was the coaching change not made during the season if the mental and physical health and well-being of the students were being jeopardized? It had been brought up before. It had been ongoing. There had been tough conversations before. A promise to change. A temporary change in behavior then back sliding. I can't speculate as to why there was not a coaching change made. I wish I knew. I'm a but a small internet troll with an inflated ego of his own.
|
|
|
Post by richrod on Nov 20, 2022 16:18:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the post. Well written. My question would be did all of those things you listed happen this season? And if they did, why was the coaching change not made during the season if the mental and physical health and well-being of the students were being jeopardized? It had been brought up before. It had been ongoing. There had been tough conversations before. A promise to change. A temporary change in behavior then back sliding. I can't speculate as to why there was not a coaching change made. I wish I knew. I'm a but a small internet troll with an inflated ego of his own. The biggest problem with the media here, is Jake Furr does anything for clicks, I'm not a huge fan of how he does things.
|
|
|
Post by fanofthegame on Nov 20, 2022 18:03:53 GMT -5
As I think of things …
I have a pad it up and let the kid play mentality, but only if the kid wants to. If they don’t and they have a legitimate injury they’ll play half speed and get hurt worse. You have to know the kids. Some can play injured and some want to wear the jersey to school on Friday. My one exception to rub some dirt on it and play anyway is head injuries. If you can’t pass the Fudd test (Looney Tunes, “My name is Elmer J. Fudd. I own a mansion and a yacht.” Google it if you’re too young) you sit. We can fix arms and legs, not so much with brains.
|
|
|
Post by baldref on Nov 20, 2022 20:27:04 GMT -5
If the "hypothetical" situations enumerated in the one comment did occur, then the "canaries" , boards of Ed and administration are all complicit in allowing the situation to continue for apparently years. As for the media guys, they just followed the story nothing more. Ultimately, no one will win I think other than some lawyers. Btw, have no connection, relatives, friends etc in the valley or know none of the figures. Just an interested observer.
|
|
|
Post by usramfan on Nov 20, 2022 20:37:12 GMT -5
It had been brought up before. It had been ongoing. There had been tough conversations before. A promise to change. A temporary change in behavior then back sliding. I can't speculate as to why there was not a coaching change made. I wish I knew. I'm a but a small internet troll with an inflated ego of his own. The biggest problem with the media here, is Jake Furr does anything for clicks, I'm not a huge fan of how he does things. Agreed. He lacks objectivity, as do several media members in the area.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Nov 20, 2022 21:19:22 GMT -5
Like in all professions, little guys are usually looking to move up.
When little Jill or Johnny gets mention in a positive light, they are beloved
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 21, 2022 8:24:43 GMT -5
It had been brought up before. It had been ongoing. There had been tough conversations before. A promise to change. A temporary change in behavior then back sliding. I can't speculate as to why there was not a coaching change made. I wish I knew. I'm a but a small internet troll with an inflated ego of his own. The biggest problem with the media here, is Jake Furr does anything for clicks, I'm not a huge fan of how he does things. Those events have taken place over the 14 year career at Clear Fork. The main difference between now and when all of that was happening is the person that got him fired in 2022 was a person who supported him and fought for him against the parents wanting him gone. Now that person is a player's parent and got his way.
|
|
|
Post by buxfan on Nov 21, 2022 19:03:03 GMT -5
Something we do not know is if the administration had a meeting with Coach Carroll, and gave him one last chance. With staff turnover, maybe complaints from parents and players, and a new AD, he had a short leash. The argument on the sidelines that supposedly spilled into the locker room at halftime could have been the reason the decision was made. The press releasing the story being so one sided is odd. I wonder if the info provided by the coach was verified by other sources by the reporters.
|
|
|
Post by moacpops on Nov 21, 2022 20:56:06 GMT -5
The biggest problem with the media here, is Jake Furr does anything for clicks, I'm not a huge fan of how he does things. Those events have taken place over the 14 year career at Clear Fork. The main difference between now and when all of that was happening is the person that got him fired in 2022 was a person who supported him and fought for him against the parents wanting him gone. Now that person is a player's parent and got his way. No dog in this fight but if the Clear Fork district hypothetically allowed a coach to 1). ignored concussion protocol and sent players back to the field of play when they were unable to answer basic questions about time/date/location? 2). Padlocked doors with children inside in order to have conversations and coerce to continue to play for him? 3). Force a player back onto the field, accuse him of faking injuries, only later to be revealed he has a broken neck? 4). Force a player to play with torn shoulders until he had to have surgery and render him essentially disabled for certain blue-collar jobs he was seeking They made their bed with the coach if true.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Nov 22, 2022 8:16:44 GMT -5
No dog in this fight but if the Clear Fork district hypothetically allowed a coach to 1). ignored concussion protocol and sent players back to the field of play when they were unable to answer basic questions about time/date/location? 2). Padlocked doors with children inside in order to have conversations and coerce to continue to play for him? 3). Force a player back onto the field, accuse him of faking injuries, only later to be revealed he has a broken neck? 4). Force a player to play with torn shoulders until he had to have surgery and render him essentially disabled for certain blue-collar jobs he was seeking They made their bed with the coach if true. I have been told about events like this for years and wondered how he was still coaching and it always came back to a few loyal supporters with influence and financial power.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Nov 22, 2022 16:16:40 GMT -5
Something we do not know is if the administration had a meeting with Coach Carroll, and gave him one last chance. With staff turnover, maybe complaints from parents and players, and a new AD, he had a short leash. The argument on the sidelines that supposedly spilled into the locker room at halftime could have been the reason the decision was made. The press releasing the story being so one sided is odd. I wonder if the info provided by the coach was verified by other sources by the reporters. If AD or BOE were asked I'm quite sure the answer would have been "no comment". THE wise response.
|
|