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Post by BellevueBuckeye on Oct 16, 2016 7:59:56 GMT -5
Sandusky won last year 41-31
Sandusky can clinch at least share of the NOL title with a win.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 9:04:27 GMT -5
This could have a running clock in it.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 16, 2016 12:25:11 GMT -5
More of the same the next 2 weeks.
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Post by brutus036 on Oct 20, 2016 10:13:37 GMT -5
Upset of the Year we thought last week there was a chance well that got blown out of the water in the first Quarter. Don't be suprised if the Warrior's come in and Shock the NOL opening the door for the Shelby, Bellevue winner to get a piece of the last NOL title. GOT TO THINK POSITIVE!!
Warrior's 27 Sandusky 20
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Post by SportsNut on Oct 20, 2016 14:58:18 GMT -5
Did I miss a post somewhere...is Ontario varsity playing Sandusky JV?? Not a chance Ontario stays within 3 scores of Sandusky. Brutus, you do realize Ontario was only up 7-0 against Willard at the half and was only up 20-6 against Willard very late in the 4th quarter. Let me repeat that, only up 7-0 against WILLARD at the half and 20-6 very late in the 4th quarter. Having seen Sandusky play, this could be a shutout...until Sandusky puts backup players in and Hawkins keeps offensive starters in to get that elusive 1st score during the running clock...
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Post by heresjim on Oct 20, 2016 18:02:45 GMT -5
I'm not very impressed with Ontario's progress this year.
Let's compare seasons. I'll order their games by their best wins to their worst losses.
2015 2016 Willard 42-14 W Tiffin 40-14 W Norwalk 20-19 W Willard 35-8 W Vermillion 20-15 L Cardington 59-34 W Lexington 26-19 L Carey 45-30 W Tiffin 23-14 L Clearfork 21-14 L Sandusky 41-31 L Lexington 24-6 L Clearfork 42-24 L Norwalk 34-14 L Shelby 46-14 L Sandusky 36-6 L Danville 46-0 L Shelby 49-7 L Bellevue 52-6 L Bellevue It will be bad...
From the way I look at it, Ontario either won or had a close game in 5 games in both seasons. If the season continues how it is going, Ontario will also have 5 games where they were completely not competitive. We traded out an extremely good Danville team with an average d 6 school and we traded D 4 Vermillion for another average d6 school. I don't know if Hawkins has worse talent than last year, but he definitely hasn't blown his predecessor out of the water in terms of success. The freshman also have just lost their last game of the season to finish with an 0-8 record. I worry for the future of this team but I believe it will be a testament of coaching ability if this thing can be turned around.
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Post by galion on Oct 21, 2016 4:34:08 GMT -5
Actually having Danville and Vermillion on the schedule this season would have made it easier not harder.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 4:42:30 GMT -5
Actually having Danville and Vermillion on the schedule this season would have made it easier not harder.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 4:44:37 GMT -5
Actually, once again you miss the point of comparing last seasons schedule to this seasons schedule. Not 2015 teams to 2016 teams.
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Post by heresjim on Oct 21, 2016 7:01:57 GMT -5
Actually having Danville and Vermillion on the schedule this season would have made it easier not harder. Having a 2015 Danville and a 2015 Vermilion on this year's schedule would likely have produced similar results as last year. If the 2015 Ontario team played 2016 Cartington and 2016 Carey last year, I also believe similar results would occur. When you compare schedules you compare the competence of your opponents for the year that you played them. 2015 Danville > 2016 Cartington 2015 Vermillion > 2016 Carey Whether or not Danville would be worse this year or Vermillion is worse(or maybe still better then Carey???) is irrelevant. Honestly if we played a worse Danville team and won, my point stands as they would be playing a worse team this year. Not really improvement if your team is beating somebody who has just regressed really bad. Was anyone impressed with the Tiffin win? No because Tiffin has just simple gotten worse while Ontario has stayed the same.
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Post by galion on Oct 21, 2016 15:44:07 GMT -5
But you can't play last year's teams only this year's teams.
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Post by heresjim on Oct 21, 2016 16:32:59 GMT -5
But you can't play last year's teams only this year's teams. I don't think you understand my point. I'm saying that Ontario has not shown progress from this year to last. They have a weaker schedule this year and have won games against those weaker teams but they haven't proved themselves against any decent opponents just like last year. Therefore I fail to see the progress.
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Post by footballer on Oct 21, 2016 17:31:08 GMT -5
Totally understand your point, here's Jim. And agree with it. Anybody who doesn't seem to understand what you are saying either gets a kick out of being difficult or has an agenda.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 21, 2016 18:44:03 GMT -5
Ontario's team this year would have beat Sandusky's team of last year. Ontario's team this year would have beat Lexington's team of last year. Ontario's team this year would have beat Vermilion's team of last year. Sandusky's team this year is MUCH better than their team of last year. Lexington's team this year is MUCH better than their team of last year. Norwalk's team this year is MUCH better than their team of last year. Eye test. This is no different than the reasoning being used in discussing the unknowns between this year's schedule VS last year's. How many in the discussion saw more than 2 of Ontario's games last year AND this year? My guess would be none.
I thought the ABSOLUTE best record this year would be 5-5. There has been some improvement in some areas, but not as much as Hawkins was hoping for. He has said the biggest problem this team has is overcoming even a single big negative play. A turnover in their end of the field. A long offensive TD, by the opponent. After such plays happen their confidence immediately takes a nose dive, hits rock bottom and doesn't come back. That's what happens when you're used to losing and accept it. The culture can be the single most difficult thing to change when trying to turn around a program.
The less than stellar Freshman class is a problem and I wouldn't be surprised to see them lose half of the 20 players next year. IMO, a key to a turn around is better coaching of fundamentals as the lower grades move up. Ontario is only losing 4 Seniors of any significance. Two of their best athletes in the past decade and 2 above average 1 way players.
Ontario won't be joining the NEW SBC. The only reason I can think why anyone is concerned about the state of Ontario's football program, is losing easy wins in the future.
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Post by thome25 on Oct 21, 2016 19:02:42 GMT -5
Sorry Will..that "losing culture" excuse that Hawkins keeps selling doesn't hold water....according to Joe Eitel, here are the Ontario football records since 2011:
2011: 8-2 2012: 6-4 2013: 5-5 2014: 6-4 2015: 2-8 2016: 4-6???
31-29 isn't exactly a complete rebuild. I'm told the 7th grade team won 1 game, the 8th grade team was .500. One thing Hawkins has never had is a soccer team to compete with. Ontario's soccer team is good with 2 straight NOL championships. That can only hurt the football team. Better up the recruiting budget!!
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Post by footballer on Oct 21, 2016 19:29:40 GMT -5
That's an awful lot of opinions stated as facts, WF. Your argument that ontarios fundamentals are better seems pretty subjective as well. I could argue that last years ontario team would beat this years tiffin team, this years carey team, this years cardington team, etc. but I don't think that gets us very far. Maybe the best comparison would be to look at how the team has looked against opponents that it has played both years. can anybody pull up a comparisons of this year to last years games vs lex, cf, Willard, tc, Shelby, and Sandusky? I think what we'll see is that Ontario played those teams better last year than this year overall. Yes, many of those teams improved. Lex, Shelby and Sandusky are definitely better than last year. But I think that's the point. Those teams got better and Ontario didn't.
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Post by footballer on Oct 21, 2016 19:59:20 GMT -5
Looking at what's posted above, I would say this yearsteam performed worse against lex, better against clear fork, even against Willard, better against tc, worse against Shelby, and looking like worse against sandusky. its hard to look at that and say that this years Ontario team is better than last years. If anything they are even, maybe even worse.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 21, 2016 20:01:44 GMT -5
The first 2 years were in the NCC, 6 games below .500 in the NOL. IMO there can be a losing culture on 5-5 and 6-4 teams. Enough talent to be 7-3 or 8-2, but don't know how to win. Don't know how to play with a lead. Don't know how to put their foot on the opponents throat and choke the life out them. Lose concentration, think they have it made with a lead and make dumb mistakes. Losing culture leads to those things. I played on 10-0 and 9-1 teams, that didn't have a single player go on to college to play football. Not real big, not fast. Fundamentally sound, very intelligent, made very few mistakes, knew how to win, knew how to win BIG, hated to lose. A true winning culture can overcome shortcomings.
Last year's 2-8 team had THE worst defense I've ever seen at Ontario. MANY times I saw a defensive player standing in direct line of a ball carrier and made NO attempt to even slow him down, just stood there and let him run past. That is playing scared, that permeates a team. THAT culture is VERY difficult to change overnight.
I see you have no clue about soccer teams in general and Ontario's soccer team specifically. First of all, some parents won't allow their son's to play football due to concussions and worse, but are fine with them playing soccer. Most kids who choose soccer on their own over football don't like to hit or be hit. Ontario's current varsity and JV soccer teams don't have a single kid who could contribute on Ontario's varsity or JV football teams. The majority are 5-7 155, quick, not real fast kids who've player soccer since they were in the first grade. Thinking back over the history of Ontario Soccer I can only think of 5 players who could have been above average football players. Only 2 who would have been very good. No great football players play soccer unless mommy and daddy won't let them play football.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 21, 2016 20:23:47 GMT -5
That's an awful lot of opinions stated as facts, WF. Your argument that ontarios fundamentals are better seems pretty subjective as well. I could argue that last years ontario team would beat this years tiffin team, this years carey team, this years cardington team, etc. but I don't think that gets us very far. Maybe the best comparison would be to look at how the team has looked against opponents that it has played both years. can anybody pull up a comparisons of this year to last years games vs lex, cf, Willard, tc, Shelby, and Sandusky? I think what we'll see is that Ontario played those teams better last year than this year overall. Yes, many of those teams improved. Lex, Shelby and Sandusky are definitely better than last year. But I think that's the point. Those teams got better and Ontario didn't. No facts, just opinions like all others on this subject. EXCEPT my opinions on the past 2 years of Ontario football is based on more knowledge than others. As I've seen most of Ontario's games over the past two years. Have you seen as many? Has anyone seen close to as many? PLEASE, show us where I said Ontario's fundamentals were better this year. READ CAREFULLY. The only thing said was, "there has been some improvement in some areas". Nothing about fundamentals, "some" used twice, didn't say what "areas". Lex, Shelby and Sandusky had more talent coming back. Last year Lex and Sandusky were 6-4, Sandusky was 5-5, Ontario was 2-8. I can go down through the rosters and point out many player those three teams have that Ontario has nothing close to.
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Post by footballer on Oct 21, 2016 20:24:44 GMT -5
Looking at what's posted above, I would say this yearsteam performed worse against lex, better against clear fork, even against Willard, better against tc, worse against Shelby, and looking like worse against sandusky. its hard to look at that and say that this years Ontario team is better than last years. If anything they are even, maybe even worse. Forgot Norwalk. And I would say this years team performed worse than last years team against them.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 21, 2016 20:27:52 GMT -5
Would you agree that this Norwalk is much better than last year? Everyone is making comparisons with little knowledge. Go compare Norwalk's results and scores last year VS this year.
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Post by footballer on Oct 21, 2016 20:32:51 GMT -5
That's an awful lot of opinions stated as facts, WF. Your argument that ontarios fundamentals are better seems pretty subjective as well. I could argue that last years ontario team would beat this years tiffin team, this years carey team, this years cardington team, etc. but I don't think that gets us very far. Maybe the best comparison would be to look at how the team has looked against opponents that it has played both years. can anybody pull up a comparisons of this year to last years games vs lex, cf, Willard, tc, Shelby, and Sandusky? I think what we'll see is that Ontario played those teams better last year than this year overall. Yes, many of those teams improved. Lex, Shelby and Sandusky are definitely better than last year. But I think that's the point. Those teams got better and Ontario didn't. No facts, just opinions like all others on this subject. EXCEPT my opinions on the past 2 years of Ontario football is based on more knowledge than others. As I've seen most of Ontario's games over the past two years. Have you seen as many? Has anyone seen close to as many? PLEASE, show us where I said Ontario's fundamentals were better this year. READ CAREFULLY. The only thing said was, "there has been some improvement in some areas". Nothing about fundamentals, "some" used twice, didn't say what "areas". Lex, Shelby and Sandusky had more talent coming back. Last year Lex and Sandusky were 6-4, Sandusky was 5-5, Ontario was 2-8. I can go down through the rosters and point out many player those three teams have that Ontario has nothing close to. [ You are correct. I misread what you said about fundamentals. If you are gauging the talent on these teams, though, you can't say that any team GAINED talent since last year unless they brought new players onto the varsity roster. What you can measure is what teams LOST since last year. Would you argue that Ontario lost more to graduation than other teams? Wasn't last year a young team for Ontario with most starters returning?
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 21, 2016 20:32:56 GMT -5
Looking at what's posted above, I would say this yearsteam performed worse against lex, better against clear fork, even against Willard, better against tc, worse against Shelby, and looking like worse against sandusky. its hard to look at that and say that this years Ontario team is better than last years. If anything they are even, maybe even worse. Who has said Ontario is better this year? ? Brutus hasn't even said they were better, he just makes asinine predictions.
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Post by mrsteel on Oct 21, 2016 20:37:24 GMT -5
WF most kids today don't like to be hit period. Not the same today as when we played. AND there most definitely has been kids on the soccer field that could of contributed on the football field too. Its all how you develop over the few years you put into a sport. 24 kids on varsity soccer and another 12 on JV is a pretty good chunk out of the student population. Even that huge band has a bunch of good sized kids. The Freshman team lost a lot of players from last year that didn't go out for some reason or the other. I know a few thought Hawkins would be to hard nosed.
Looking at the better teams in the NOL, Ontario just isn't as good. They pretty much play like they did when they were in MS. Hawkins has a new system and the offense this year was pretty simple. Our QB runs well but isn't too good of a passer. The freshman QB can throw a decent pass at times, but isn't real strong yet. I think our defense was decent this year, but was on the field way too much. The offense couldn't move people against the better defenses.
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Post by mrsteel on Oct 21, 2016 20:49:52 GMT -5
Sandusky-36 Ontario-6 final
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Post by footballer on Oct 21, 2016 20:52:36 GMT -5
Would you agree that this Norwalk is much better than last year? Everyone is making comparisons with little knowledge. Go compare Norwalk's results and scores last year VS this year. I would agree. Which, again, is the point. It was stated above that someone wasn't impressed with ontarios progress this year. I agreed with that statement. There were other who took issue with that comment. The only opposing view would be that Ontario had, in fact, gotten better. Mostly due to winning two more games. Because of the arguments about varying schedules, I proposed comparing only the common opponents from the two seasons in question. The result is that, overall, Ontario performed worse this year than last year against those teams. This is mostly due to many of those teams improving and Ontario failing to (which is the entire point). The only NOL team that Ontario performed better against than last year is tc, and they are really bad this year.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 21, 2016 20:54:23 GMT -5
No facts, just opinions like all others on this subject. EXCEPT my opinions on the past 2 years of Ontario football is based on more knowledge than others. As I've seen most of Ontario's games over the past two years. Have you seen as many? Has anyone seen close to as many? PLEASE, show us where I said Ontario's fundamentals were better this year. READ CAREFULLY. The only thing said was, "there has been some improvement in some areas". Nothing about fundamentals, "some" used twice, didn't say what "areas". Lex, Shelby and Sandusky had more talent coming back. Last year Lex and Sandusky were 6-4, Sandusky was 5-5, Ontario was 2-8. I can go down through the rosters and point out many player those three teams have that Ontario has nothing close to. [ You are correct. I misread what you said about fundamentals. If you are gauging the talent on these teams, though, you can't say that any team GAINED talent since last year unless they brought new players onto the varsity roster. What you can measure is what teams LOST since last year. Would you argue that Ontario lost more to graduation than other teams? Wasn't last year a young team for Ontario with most starters returning? You are wrong again. I said NOTHING about talent "GAINED". This is really simple. AGAIN, last year Lex and Sandusky were 6-4, Shelby was 5-5, Ontario was 2-8. If you had to make an educated guess, without even looking at a program, who had more more talent returning? I went back and looked. Ontario lost four 3-year letter winners and 5 players that went both ways.
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Post by heresjim on Oct 21, 2016 21:00:24 GMT -5
The first 2 years were in the NCC, 6 games below .500 in the NOL. IMO there can be a losing culture on 5-5 and 6-4 teams. Enough talent to be 7-3 or 8-2, but don't know how to win. Don't know how to play with a lead. Don't know how to put their foot on the opponents throat and choke the life out them. Lose concentration, think they have it made with a lead and make dumb mistakes. Losing culture leads to those things. I played on 10-0 and 9-1 teams, that didn't have a single player go on to college to play football. Not real big, not fast. Fundamentally sound, very intelligent, made very few mistakes, knew how to win, knew how to win BIG, hated to lose. A true winning culture can overcome shortcomings. Last year's 2-8 team had THE worst defense I've ever seen at Ontario. MANY times I saw a defensive player standing in direct line of a ball carrier and made NO attempt to even slow him down, just stood there and let him run past. That is playing scared, that permeates a team. THAT culture is VERY difficult to change overnight. I see you have no clue about soccer teams in general and Ontario's soccer team specifically. First of all, some parents won't allow their son's to play football due to concussions and worse, but are fine with them playing soccer. Most kids who choose soccer on their own over football don't like to hit or be hit. Ontario's current varsity and JV soccer teams don't have a single kid who could contribute on Ontario's varsity or JV football teams. The majority are 5-7 155, quick, not real fast kids who've player soccer since they were in the first grade. Thinking back over the history of Ontario Soccer I can only think of 5 players who could have been above average football players. Only 2 who would have been very good. No great football players play soccer unless mommy and daddy won't let them play football. Willard, I agree that the soccer team has no effect on taking away talent from football. Let's talk about the football team now. Surely you must see this team didn't progress on all levels. This o line is almost as bad as the defence was bad last year. They can't move people, they arnt aggressive, and some are way undersized. The secondary is pitiful and was constantly being burned by pretty much everyone this year. Our recievers are super inconsistent (catching, blocking...) and there is no dominant threat besides maybe 2(again inconsistent) that we can throw to. Not only did these things not improve over the season, but they are getting worse! Not to mention our coach doesn't seem to worried about leaving a bitter taste in the seniors' mouth. The seniors became less and less of an integral part of the team as they were getting benched, getting hurt or what not. I didn't see a single senior(many changed positions so maybe I cant fault them) play better this year than they did last year, nor did they improve as players over this season. I'll give you this, the front 5 of Ontario looked good at times and is the best part of this team. Way better than last year. It still wasn't good enough to hold against good teams, even faltering to Carey for awhile. Besides that, the rest of this team has looked lack luster plus they arent getting any better over the course of this season. We are going to the moac, yes, however we are sick of seeing a team that just is getting by being mediocre. We may win more games, but playoffs are just as unlikely. Plus with the lack of talent coming up we may not see a playoff Ontario team for years to come. I will see what Hawkins can do but you can't fault us for being skeptical. Also btw this team doesnt have problems with playing its heart out especially this game with Sandusky. The skill players run hard, and our defence was giving good hits. Bad at tackling at times, but gave some good hits. I don't think they have a losing mentality, they are just bad. Talent wise, it gets worse. We lose 5(QB),2(good reciever), 2 d linemen (1 is hurt I think), 7/6( both good runners), and couple of o linemen. We have all seen their backups at sometime whether at a JV game or subbing, and they are not good. They may develop, but most of this year's players didn't develop alot... In the future, this team will have good linebackers but everything else is a question mark.
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Post by footballer on Oct 21, 2016 21:05:56 GMT -5
You said they had more talent returning. Since you couldn't have meant that they gained talent, you must mean that they lost more than other teams. I know they lost their qb, a receiver and an OL....5 two way staters is a lot if that's accurate, but I can't think of that many.
My original point is simple. Despite winning 2 more games than last year (with two of the wins coming against arguable lesser competition) they have actually showed very little (if any) improvement.
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Post by footballer on Oct 21, 2016 21:09:45 GMT -5
I keep seeing references to last years defense. If my math is right based on the stats above. This defense has given up only 27 fewer point thru nine games than last years. Anybody have info on forced turnovers, which would also help
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