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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 14:46:06 GMT -5
I can climb the fence and get into any high school football game without paying...so they shouldn't have built a fence? Nice logic there----If it isn't 100% effective it must be worthless. So much for locks on my doors, vaccinations and birth control. It's not worthless, just not worth 20 billion.
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Post by fanofthegame on Aug 10, 2017 15:40:51 GMT -5
I can climb the fence and get into any high school football game without paying...so they shouldn't have built a fence? Nice logic there----If it isn't 100% effective it must be worthless. So much for locks on my doors, vaccinations and birth control. I've read your posts for years. You're smarter than that. What are the chances you get over the fence at a high school game without someone seeing you? It's not 2000 miles long. If you want to spend the money it makes more sense to me to spend it rounding illegals up and sending them back.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 10, 2017 16:58:54 GMT -5
I can climb the fence and get into any high school football game without paying...so they shouldn't have built a fence? Nice logic there----If it isn't 100% effective it must be worthless. So much for locks on my doors, vaccinations and birth control. I've read your posts for years. You're smarter than that. What are the chances you get over the fence at a high school game without someone seeing you? It's not 2000 miles long. If you want to spend the money it makes more sense to me to spend it rounding illegals up and sending them back. If they can't get here in the first place, then you eliminate rounding them up and expelling them. The wall is a tremendous success for the Israeli's and when completed, it will be a tremendous success for America.
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Post by deathfromabove on Aug 10, 2017 17:10:40 GMT -5
The WALL is not the answer to keep people out. China had a wall to try to keep the Mongols out. It FAILED. The Romans had a wall about where the English-Scotland border is at to keep the Scots out. It FAILED. In the Middle-Ages they build castles to protect the Kings and Lords. Guess what, it FAILED. Most recent their was the Marginal and the Ziegfeld line. You got it, They both FAILED. Building walls is mans foolish attempt to keep people out behind unmovable fortification when you can just go around it. A famous American General by the name of George C. Patton said that as the 3rd. Army was bi-passing towns like Hamburg and others that hide behind their walls and surround them and starve them out. The immigrates will find a way around,under or over the wall. Mark my words, you cannot stop people who want a better life than what they have now.
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Post by fanofthegame on Aug 10, 2017 17:51:29 GMT -5
I've read your posts for years. You're smarter than that. What are the chances you get over the fence at a high school game without someone seeing you? It's not 2000 miles long. If you want to spend the money it makes more sense to me to spend it rounding illegals up and sending them back. If they can't get here in the first place, then you eliminate rounding them up and expelling them. The wall is a tremendous success for the Israeli's and when completed, it will be a tremendous success for America. Again, a 440 mile wall. Less than 25% of the amount needed to separate the US from Mexico.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 10, 2017 20:30:34 GMT -5
I've read your posts for years. You're smarter than that. What are the chances you get over the fence at a high school game without someone seeing you? It's not 2000 miles long. If you want to spend the money it makes more sense to me to spend it rounding illegals up and sending them back. If they can't get here in the first place, then you eliminate rounding them up and expelling them. The wall is a tremendous success for the Israeli's and when completed, it will be a tremendous success for America. ISRAEL IS THE SIZE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE!
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 10, 2017 21:48:26 GMT -5
Doesn't matter what the size is, the wall works! Palestinian terrorists have tried unsuccessfully digging tunnels under it, scaling it and a myriad of methodical attempts, it works! We have 700 miles completed, continue the efforts, we will get it done eventually.
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 10, 2017 22:10:02 GMT -5
I can climb the fence and get into any high school football game without paying...so they shouldn't have built a fence? Nice logic there----If it isn't 100% effective it must be worthless. So much for locks on my doors, vaccinations and birth control. I've read your posts for years. You're smarter than that. Dammit Fan, you compliment me and force me to re-think the issue in one line. Buckeye2B got my write-in vote for President in 2016 but you are looking good for 2020. I'd put the country in your hands ahead of any of those clowns on last November's ballot.
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Post by galion on Aug 11, 2017 2:55:24 GMT -5
Doesn't matter what the size is, the wall works! Palestinian terrorists have tried unsuccessfully digging tunnels under it, scaling it and a myriad of methodical attempts, it works! We have 700 miles completed, continue the efforts, we will get it done eventually. You do realize it's not just a wall right? It's dotted with towers and other fortified positions and armed to the teeth. That's not even close to what they're talking about here. For us to do what Isreal dod would require us to literally station 3-4 fully equipt army divisions on the border year round. We are not at war with immigrants the Isrealis are at war with Palistine. It's not even close to the same thing.
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Post by tommygunn on Aug 11, 2017 6:59:49 GMT -5
Yup Canada has an open border policy with us. Not. I know of two guys from different hunting trips that were turned away at the border and told they could not enter. The reason. Because they both had a DUI charge over 15 years ago. Canada is so loving. What is next, telling us Canada's healthcare is awesome. Lol.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 11, 2017 8:11:41 GMT -5
Doesn't matter what the size is, the wall works! Palestinian terrorists have tried unsuccessfully digging tunnels under it, scaling it and a myriad of methodical attempts, it works! We have 700 miles completed, continue the efforts, we will get it done eventually. You do realize it's not just a wall right? It's dotted with towers and other fortified positions and armed to the teeth. That's not even close to what they're talking about here. For us to do what Isreal dod would require us to literally station 3-4 fully equipt army divisions on the border year round. We are not at war with immigrants the Isrealis are at war with Palistine. It's not even close to the same thing. Yes, we are bolstering border security with adequate man power. Trump has prioritized the hiring of 5,000 more Border Patrol agents and 10,000 more Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers to enforce his executive orders on immigration. No one questions the need for increased surveillance for a border that stretches 2,000 miles through remote areas. The Israeli's are not at war with Palestine, there are times of flare-ups and disagreements, but it is basically a shaky peaceful co-existence. The point is the effectiveness of the wall, not the two nation relationship.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 11, 2017 9:31:00 GMT -5
sportsjock comparing immigrants to terrorists now lol
so first they're a swarm of rats, and now we should treat them like Israel treats suicide bombers
another -25 humanity
screw the walls, just setup a bunch of machine gun nests boss, and shoot to kill...that wold be even cheaper...i mean let's go full blown USSR, and adopt Singapore's judicial code, America would be so much better then right?
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 11, 2017 9:32:37 GMT -5
first the GOP gave you the War on Drugs to further the Military Industrial Complex, then we had the War on Terror, and now the War on Immigration
how about we wage a war on Stupidity and Ignorance? please
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 9:32:44 GMT -5
You do realize it's not just a wall right? It's dotted with towers and other fortified positions and armed to the teeth. That's not even close to what they're talking about here. For us to do what Isreal dod would require us to literally station 3-4 fully equipt army divisions on the border year round. We are not at war with immigrants the Isrealis are at war with Palistine. It's not even close to the same thing. The point is the effectiveness of the wall, not the two nation relationship. Your argument is parallel to the people that say, we should have free health care for all! Look how well it works in Denmark! Or... we should have no speed limits, look how well it works in Germany! It's not even a close comparison. Israel and Palestine are totally different countries, and there is a lot more than cement and rebar that makes a wall effective. A cheaper plan and a more long term plan would to stop people from wanting to cross the border illegally and then we wouldn't even need a wall. It's why people really pay to see a high school football game, not a cheesy chainlink fence.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 11, 2017 9:33:24 GMT -5
David Eisenhower is rolling over on his grave. No one has heeded any of his pertinent warnings in the Post-WWII era.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 11, 2017 10:05:36 GMT -5
sportsjock comparing immigrants to terrorists now lol so first they're a swarm of rats, and now we should treat them like Israel treats suicide bombers another -25 humanity screw the walls, just setup a bunch of machine gun nests boss, and shoot to kill...that wold be even cheaper...i mean let's go full blown USSR, and adopt Singapore's judicial code, America would be so much better then right? You're not being honest. I never compared illegal immigrants to terrorists, nor will I ever. That's not to say there are not terrorist elements taking advantage of our porous border. That is entirely probable and of great concern to Homeland Security. Again, I never said they were a swarm of rats, they are swarming across our borders, much like rats. What was in my mind was a news video of a downtown Toledo alley of rats swarming down the alleyway. Admittedly, a poor choice of words (rats), because the intent of my analogy was misconstrued. I certainly don't think of illegal immigrants as rats, they are human beings, with various reasons for attempting their illegal crossing. Now you are suggesting mowing down illegal invaders with machine guns?.....sheesh A bit extreme don't you think?
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 11, 2017 10:14:03 GMT -5
The point is the effectiveness of the wall, not the two nation relationship. Your argument is parallel to the people that say, we should have free health care for all! Look how well it works in Denmark! Or... we should have no speed limits, look how well it works in Germany! It's not even a close comparison. Israel and Palestine are totally different countries, and there is a lot more than cement and rebar that makes a wall effective. A cheaper plan and a more long term plan would to stop people from wanting to cross the border illegally and then we wouldn't even need a wall. It's why people really pay to see a high school football game, not a cheesy chainlink fence. Evidently, you are not that astute at benchmarking. Again, you totally miss the point. Prior to completion of the Israeli wall public bombings were common in Israel, despite extremely high security measures. The wall hits completion and the terrorist violence stops. You libs are in total denial, yes we need a wall and yes, it will dramatically slow illegal invaders to a miniscule and manageable level. Much like football, you stop the play at the point of attack, simplifies matters, so you don't have to rely on your secondary defense.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 11, 2017 10:37:23 GMT -5
sportsjock comparing immigrants to terrorists now lol so first they're a swarm of rats, and now we should treat them like Israel treats suicide bombers another -25 humanity screw the walls, just setup a bunch of machine gun nests boss, and shoot to kill...that wold be even cheaper...i mean let's go full blown USSR, and adopt Singapore's judicial code, America would be so much better then right? You're not being honest. I never compared illegal immigrants to terrorists, nor will I ever. That's not to say there are not terrorist elements taking advantage of our porous border. That is entirely probable and of great concern to Homeland Security. Again, I never said they were a swarm of rats, they are swarming across our borders, much like rats. What was in my mind was a news video of a downtown Toledo alley of rats swarming down the alleyway. Admittedly, a poor choice of words (rats), because the intent of my analogy was misconstrued. I certainly don't think of illegal immigrants as rats, they are human beings, with various reasons for attempting their illegal crossing. Now you are suggesting mowing down illegal invaders with machine guns?.....sheesh A bit extreme don't you think? comparing anything a country that size does to what we should do is foolish, imho, and demonstrates a poor understanding of the US Southern Border i'm all for stronger borders, but let's stop pretending like Migrant workers are destroying the economy (same thing was said about the Jews post WWI), let's stop pretending like Migrant Workers are stealing jobs from Americans (same thing said about Jews post WWI), let's stop pretending like there aren't so many better ideas to curb illegal immigration than a wall you pro-wall people actually terrify me, that grown adults in a land of education are going to sit here and think "oh man we'll just build a wall" and everything is solved...that really truly scares me, in a way that the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and i get a chill thru my spine...it's just horrible this is a pre-James Monroe model of thinking that has proven to have near-disastrous results for our country in the past The great thing about History, it's a vast early warning system. Walls don't work. There has been a military unit dedicated to compromising walls since the dawn of fortification. Read the history of the Sappers. Every country has a form of them, and probably especially in Mexico where you have a lot of para-military guys who can do things generally un-impeded.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 11:05:14 GMT -5
Your argument is parallel to the people that say, we should have free health care for all! Look how well it works in Denmark! Or... we should have no speed limits, look how well it works in Germany! It's not even a close comparison. Israel and Palestine are totally different countries, and there is a lot more than cement and rebar that makes a wall effective. A cheaper plan and a more long term plan would to stop people from wanting to cross the border illegally and then we wouldn't even need a wall. It's why people really pay to see a high school football game, not a cheesy chainlink fence. Evidently, you are not that astute at benchmarking. Again, you totally miss the point. Prior to completion of the Israeli wall public bombings were common in Israel, despite extremely high security measures. The wall hits completion and the terrorist violence stops. You libs are in total denial, yes we need a wall and yes, it will dramatically slow illegal invaders to a miniscule and manageable level. Much like football, you stop the play at the point of attack, simplifies matters, so you don't have to rely on your secondary defense. The only statement you can draw from that is that a wall worked for Israel. You CANNOT transfer it to say all walls work well. It is not a respectable argument. I'm sorry you don't understand that. "You libs", laugh. You know nothing about me. Should I start calling you a cousin loving Walmart shopper? There is no good reason we need a wall. We need more workers, most Americans are lazy and stupid (Trump got elected). They do not hurt wages, they help hold up industries that pay Americans. Their impact on health care costs pales compared to all the unhealthy (lazy) Americans who have preventable diseases. They aren't terrorists or "invaders", those come in through legal means every day.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 11, 2017 11:51:35 GMT -5
Outlaw Tobacco.
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Post by CEOSouth on Aug 11, 2017 13:49:49 GMT -5
Walls work at prisons! Walls work everywhere!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 14:13:51 GMT -5
Walls work at prisons! Walls work everywhere! Genius!
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 11, 2017 14:17:59 GMT -5
damn
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 11, 2017 14:49:00 GMT -5
Evidently, you are not that astute at benchmarking. Again, you totally miss the point. Prior to completion of the Israeli wall public bombings were common in Israel, despite extremely high security measures. The wall hits completion and the terrorist violence stops. You libs are in total denial, yes we need a wall and yes, it will dramatically slow illegal invaders to a miniscule and manageable level. Much like football, you stop the play at the point of attack, simplifies matters, so you don't have to rely on your secondary defense. The only statement you can draw from that is that a wall worked for Israel. You CANNOT transfer it to say all walls work well. It is not a respectable argument. I'm sorry you don't understand that. "You libs", laugh. You know nothing about me. Should I start calling you a cousin loving Walmart shopper? There is no good reason we need a wall. We need more workers, most Americans are lazy and stupid (Trump got elected). They do not hurt wages, they help hold up industries that pay Americans. Their impact on health care costs pales compared to all the unhealthy (lazy) Americans who have preventable diseases. They aren't terrorists or "invaders", those come in through legal means every day. You can be assured, the wall will be formidable. The Israeli wall is certainly a great benchmark. Can our design engineers improve on their design and produce a product that best fits our needs? Absolutely. My reference to liberals was a generalized reference, not pointing to you in particular. In fact, there are perhaps hundreds of reasons we need a substantial barrier protecting our southern border. We need more 'workers' indeed, but legal taxpaying workers. Certainly you don't hold the viewpoint 'most Americans are lazy and stupid'......I don't believe that and I don't believe you believe that as well. I agree unhealthy lifestyles contribute to preventable diseases. Sit on one of the benches at any Walmart and view customers coming and going, the vast majority range from mildly obese to grossly obese. Notice how many jump out of their car, light up a cigarette for a quick smoke, before entering the store. Illegals crossing our borders are invaders.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 11, 2017 15:04:03 GMT -5
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Post by galion on Aug 12, 2017 3:44:30 GMT -5
Let's see we've gone to illegals are criminals to rapists to drug lords to rats to terrorists and now to invaders. It's hard to keep up. Why don't we just call them immigrants anymore that's what they are. As far as the Mexican southern border goes, the vast majority of those people(is it ok to call them people?) are just trying to get here. The easiest thing for them to do would be to just bus them up.
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Post by fanofthegame on Aug 12, 2017 4:32:36 GMT -5
I really don't think this is rocket science. Water runs downhill. Make the path to legal immigration reasonably easy enough that immigrants don't feel the need to bypass it. Instead of wasting billions on a wall that won't work anyway (I hear crickets chirping when nobody will acknowledge that over 100 miles of ocean doesn't stop Cubans) and people to guard it why not pay people to help immigrants through the process. They could help them with paperwork. They could be trained to background check them. Link our computers with Mexico's criminal database and others that keep records on bad guys. That way we could weed out the drug dealers, terrorists, former felons, etc. Sure, it'll miss some. So does our current law enforcement on our own population. Any system based on freedom first is going to err in favor of bad guys (innocent until proven guilty, remember). Now we've documented them. They're going to pay taxes for the roads they drive on, the infrastructure they benefit from. Now the employer pays payroll taxes and into social security on them so the playing field is even when choosing between hiring legal citizens versus illegal immigrants. My idea costs less and even generates income.
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Post by fanofthegame on Aug 12, 2017 4:47:55 GMT -5
P.S. If the playing field is level and the legal immigrant gets the job over the American then so be it. Game on.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 12, 2017 6:56:11 GMT -5
Let's see we've gone to illegals are criminals to rapists to drug lords to rats to terrorists and now to invaders. It's hard to keep up. Why don't we just call them immigrants anymore that's what they are. As far as the Mexican southern border goes, the vast majority of those people(is it ok to call them people?) are just trying to get here. The easiest thing for them to do would be to just bus them up. Denying the fact people are blatantly violating our nations laws and entering our country illegally, are not committing a crime? incredible Who said anything about 'rapists'? You won't give up on the rats thing....lol (I'm paying for that stupid remark) Denying the fact that our country is being invaded by thousands each year. Yes, they are invaders, even if you aren't comfortable with the term. "Those people are 'just' trying to get here." Uh, we have laws and we have an application process for that to happen. "The easiest thing for them to do would be to just bus them up." That is the dumbest comment of this entire thread....lol (my rats comment was perhaps the second dumbest)
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 12, 2017 7:19:48 GMT -5
I really don't think this is rocket science. Water runs downhill. Make the path to legal immigration reasonably easy enough that immigrants don't feel the need to bypass it. Instead of wasting billions on a wall that won't work anyway (I hear crickets chirping when nobody will acknowledge that over 100 miles of ocean doesn't stop Cubans) and people to guard it why not pay people to help immigrants through the process. They could help them with paperwork. They could be trained to background check them. Link our computers with Mexico's criminal database and others that keep records on bad guys. That way we could weed out the drug dealers, terrorists, former felons, etc. Sure, it'll miss some. So does our current law enforcement on our own population. Any system based on freedom first is going to err in favor of bad guys (innocent until proven guilty, remember). Now we've documented them. They're going to pay taxes for the roads they drive on, the infrastructure they benefit from. Now the employer pays payroll taxes and into social security on them so the playing field is even when choosing between hiring legal citizens versus illegal immigrants. My idea costs less and even generates income. Your suggestions make good common sense and have a lot of merit. I don't have to remind you that the Mexican border invasion and Cubans escaping oppression in communist Cuba are two different situations. The 'wet foot, dry foot policy implemented by president Clinton was revoked by Obama, just before leaving office. "Effective immediately, Cuban nationals who attempt to enter the United States illegally 'and do not qualify for humanitarian relief' will be subject to removal," Obama said. "By taking this step, we are treating Cuban migrants the same way we treat migrants from other countries." So, you are suggesting 'fast tracking' the immigration process. I don't see there is a necessity to alter our procedures. There is procedures already in place to apply for entry and citizenship and it works Certainly, anything can be refined and streamlined as you suggested.
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