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Post by sportsjock on Dec 15, 2017 15:44:03 GMT -5
Although we disagree on your take of J.T. Barrett, I understand your frustration and desire to see us retake our place of prominence.
Don't see a future for Tate in this program, as all indications point to him being the odd man out, as talented as he may be. If Emory Jones decides Ohio State, Tate gets squeezed a little further to the back of the bus....unfortunately.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 15, 2017 16:31:32 GMT -5
Do you have the Run and Pass EPA stats you were quoting previously or is that breakdown not available for Haskins? Here's the QBR explained www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/9612585/total-quarterback-rating-college-footballI'll give you those numbers, but the calculations are not that simple. Think of the Run & Pass EPA stats in terms of 'yards' or 'TDs'. A player can be an elite runner or passer but if they only play in 4 games they will have a lower EPA ("yards") in that category. Comparing full time starters to other full time starters is much easier. As you will see below it's not so easy comparing a full time starter to a backup that plays in a few games with EPA alone since the EPA is more of a 'Total' figure Comparing full time starter to full time starter is much easier as the EPA can be thought of as 'yards', 'TDs' Haskins 6.2 Pass EPA 1.5 Run EPA -0.5 Sack EPA 0.1 Penalty EPA 7.3 Total EPA 90 Action Plays ------ 91.9 Raw QBR 93.1 Total QBR Barrett 41.7 Pass EPA 26.5 Run EPA -8.4 Sack EPA 6.4 Penalty EPA 66.3 Total EPA 550 Action Plays ----- 76.3 Raw QBR 82.0 Total QBR The QBR takes every play situation into consideration. If it's 3rd and 4 and JT Barrett throws a 5 yard completion to get the first down then that 5 yard completion is worth more than a 3rd and 20, 5 yard completion. FAKE STAT Dumbo himself admits it is impossible to compare a starting QB to a QB who has only played 1/24th of a season. Yet he does it anyway. In the REAL world of stats, JT is the #7 rated QB in the country and Haskins is no where to be found.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 15, 2017 16:38:12 GMT -5
Although we disagree on your take of J.T. Barrett, I understand your frustration and desire to see us retake our place of prominence. Don't see a future for Tate in this program, as all indications point to him being the odd man out, as talented as he may be. If Emory Jones decides Ohio State, Tate gets squeezed a little further to the back of the bus....unfortunately. His "frustration" is because he truly believes Ohio State should have won every game they played in the past 4 seasons and won 4 National Championships in a row, If ONLY JT had not been the starting QB. HOWEVER, he's the only person in the country who thinks that.
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Post by 1percenter on Dec 15, 2017 16:47:40 GMT -5
In the REAL world of stats, JT is the #7 rated QB in the country and Haskins is no where to be found. Real world stats that include all QB's have Haskins 7th and Barrett 19th in that QBR rating. Just saying. It's going to be interesting next year and we will find out who won this debate. Was JT holding this team back or keeping it afloat? By this time next year we will know.
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 15, 2017 17:00:59 GMT -5
In the REAL world of stats, JT is the #7 rated QB in the country and Haskins is no where to be found. Real world stats that include all QB's have Haskins 7th and Barrett 19th in that QBR rating. Just saying. Totally irrelevant. Haskins miniscule playing minutes shouldn't qualify him for any kind of composite rating. I highly doubt he would meet the minimum criteria for most ratings.
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Post by 1percenter on Dec 15, 2017 18:34:09 GMT -5
Aren't you the guy that gives JT credit for beating Michigan 4 times when he only finished 2 games against them and was losing one of them when he left. If JT starts and plays 1 play vs USC will you credit him with the win over USC?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 18:59:11 GMT -5
Aren't you the guy that gives JT credit for beating Michigan 4 times when he only finished 2 games against them and was losing one of them when he left. If JT starts and plays 1 play vs USC will you credit him with the win over USC? mic drop
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 15, 2017 22:38:23 GMT -5
Aren't you the guy that gives JT credit for beating Michigan 4 times when he only finished 2 games against them and was losing one of them when he left. If JT starts and plays 1 play vs USC will you credit him with the win over USC? Uh, J.T. and his offense had the Buckeyes up 21-10, so he gets the blame for the defense giving up the lead? Get real....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 23:33:55 GMT -5
Aren't you the guy that gives JT credit for beating Michigan 4 times when he only finished 2 games against them and was losing one of them when he left. If JT starts and plays 1 play vs USC will you credit him with the win over USC? Uh, J.T. and his offense had the Buckeyes up 21-10, so he gets the blame for the defense giving up the lead? Get real.... Uh, you may want to check your facts and see what the score was when JT left the UM game last month.
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 16, 2017 0:41:20 GMT -5
Uh, J.T. and his offense had the Buckeyes up 21-10, so he gets the blame for the defense giving up the lead? Get real.... Uh, you may want to check your facts and see what the score was when JT left the UM game last month. I had the Wisconsin game on my mind....excuse me You guys are still kicking a dead horse, get over it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 7:49:39 GMT -5
Aren't you the guy that gives JT credit for beating Michigan 4 times when he only finished 2 games against them and was losing one of them when he left. If JT starts and plays 1 play vs USC will you credit him with the win over USC? Uh, J.T. and his offense had the Buckeyes up 21-10, so he gets the blame for the defense giving up the lead? Get real.... Wisconsin??? Why would that be on your mind when JT never left this game? So just to return to the claim made by 1%, you now know that UM was winning 20-14 when JT left the game last month and Haskins was the QB when they took the lead and won the game.
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 16, 2017 9:13:54 GMT -5
Uh, J.T. and his offense had the Buckeyes up 21-10, so he gets the blame for the defense giving up the lead? Get real.... Wisconsin??? Why would that be on your mind when JT never left this game? So just to return to the claim made by 1%, you now know that UM was winning 20-14 when JT left the game last month and Haskins was the QB when they took the lead and won the game. So, exactly what does that prove? The loud and vocal critics love to hang on that fact, but making assumptions is not a basis for arriving at a factual conclusion. The assumption by you people is, J.T. would not have won the game had he not been injured and you have absolutely no reason to make such an assumption. That is one thing no one will ever know. In other words, a baseless argument.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Dec 16, 2017 11:08:16 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder how far the reach of PAID trolls go. We already know there are paid political commentators on the Internet. Does Ohio State pay people to back the Athletic Department talking points on the Internet? I want to know how much OSU is paying sportjock to spread this JT is God message and disinformation campaign against the facts.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 12:29:25 GMT -5
I wonder which JT Barrettiv we will see, In front of his family, friends, & NFL scouts. The ball hog that looked atrocious in the losses to Oklahoma & especially Iowa. Or the ball hog that played decent against "we are" Penn State, And average in the other games. Gonna be interesting either way.
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 16, 2017 12:56:26 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder how far the reach of PAID trolls go. We already know there are paid political commentators on the Internet. Does Ohio State pay people to back the Athletic Department talking points on the Internet? I want to know how much OSU is paying sportjock to spread this JT is God message and disinformation campaign against the facts. LoL........they couldn't afford me.....lol
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 16, 2017 12:58:50 GMT -5
I wonder which JT Barrettiv we will see, In front of his family, friends, & NFL scouts. The ball hog that looked atrocious in the losses to Oklahoma & especially Iowa. Or the ball hog that played decent against "we are" Penn State, And average in the other games. Gonna be interesting either way. "Played decent against Penn State" Completing 16 consecutive passes is probably unequaled by any college QB this year.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 14:35:42 GMT -5
Wisconsin??? Why would that be on your mind when JT never left this game? So just to return to the claim made by 1%, you now know that UM was winning 20-14 when JT left the game last month and Haskins was the QB when they took the lead and won the game. So, exactly what does that prove? The loud and vocal critics love to hang on that fact, but making assumptions is not a basis for arriving at a factual conclusion. The assumption by you people is, J.T. would not have won the game had he not been injured and you have absolutely no reason to make such an assumption. That is one thing no one will ever know. In other words, a baseless argument. How about neither of us make assumptions. What it proves is that when JT left the game with the Buckeyes were losing. The fact is the Buckeyes offense scored 14 points with him on the field and 17 points with him off the field. The Buckeyes had 30 yds passing and 106 yds rushing with JT in 2.5 quarters and 94 yds passing and 120 yds rushing without him in 1.5 quarters. All facts from ESPN stats. All of this equals a buckeye win which is important.
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 16, 2017 20:13:18 GMT -5
So, exactly what does that prove? The loud and vocal critics love to hang on that fact, but making assumptions is not a basis for arriving at a factual conclusion. The assumption by you people is, J.T. would not have won the game had he not been injured and you have absolutely no reason to make such an assumption. That is one thing no one will ever know. In other words, a baseless argument. How about neither of us make assumptions. What it proves is that when JT left the game with the Buckeyes were losing. The fact is the Buckeyes offense scored 14 points with him on the field and 17 points with him off the field. The Buckeyes had 30 yds passing and 106 yds rushing with JT in 2.5 quarters and 94 yds passing and 120 yds rushing without him in 1.5 quarters. All facts from ESPN stats. All of this equals a buckeye win which is important.Continue to amuse yourselves with your own game assessments, that's your right to do so. A Buckeye win is the only thing that matters, for that I will agree.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 16, 2017 23:45:01 GMT -5
Uh, J.T. and his offense had the Buckeyes up 21-10, so he gets the blame for the defense giving up the lead? Get real.... Wisconsin??? Why would that be on your mind when JT never left this game? So just to return to the claim made by 1%, you now know that UM was winning 20-14 when JT left the game last month and Haskins was the QB when they took the lead and won the game. The small minded forgets that Ohio State was down 14-0 when JT led them out of the doldrums of defeat and tied the game almost singled handedly. It's amazing how many gypsy card readers we have who can foretell the future and see Ohio State not winning this game if JT doesn't get hurt. To back up their claims they use Oigee boards.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 16, 2017 23:59:35 GMT -5
In the REAL world of stats, JT is the #7 rated QB in the country and Haskins is no where to be found. Real world stats that include all QB's have Haskins 7th and Barrett 19th in that QBR rating. Just saying. It's going to be interesting next year and we will find out who won this debate. Was JT holding this team back or keeping it afloat? By this time next year we will know. NOPE. Google "Total Quarterback Rating - College football". You will find JT Barrett ranked 7th and Duane Haskins no where to be found, since he only played 1/24th of a season. OR Google "Passing Efficiency | FBS football statistics". There you will find JT Barrett ranked #8 and Duane Haskins NO WHERE to be found. Anyone who would give a rating to a QB that only played 1/24th of a season is a complete sham. FAKE STATS
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 17, 2017 0:06:12 GMT -5
Aren't you the guy that gives JT credit for beating Michigan 4 times when he only finished 2 games against them and was losing one of them when he left. If JT starts and plays 1 play vs USC will you credit him with the win over USC? Nope, that would be The Ohio State University, the Big Ten and the NCAA.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 0:53:31 GMT -5
How about neither of us make assumptions. What it proves is that when JT left the game with the Buckeyes were losing. The fact is the Buckeyes offense scored 14 points with him on the field and 17 points with him off the field. The Buckeyes had 30 yds passing and 106 yds rushing with JT in 2.5 quarters and 94 yds passing and 120 yds rushing without him in 1.5 quarters. All facts from ESPN stats. All of this equals a buckeye win which is important.Continue to amuse yourselves with your own game assessments, that's your right to do so. A Buckeye win is the only thing that matters, for that I will agree. Those are not my game assessments, they are ESPN stats.
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Post by 1percenter on Dec 17, 2017 8:15:36 GMT -5
Real world stats that include all QB's have Haskins 7th and Barrett 19th in that QBR rating. Just saying. It's going to be interesting next year and we will find out who won this debate. Was JT holding this team back or keeping it afloat? By this time next year we will know. NOPE. Google "Total Quarterback Rating - College football". You will find JT Barrett ranked 7th and Duane Haskins no where to be found, since he only played 1/24th of a season. OR Google "Passing Efficiency | FBS football statistics". There you will find JT Barrett ranked #8 and Duane Haskins NO WHERE to be found. Anyone who would give a rating to a QB that only played 1/24th of a season is a complete sham. FAKE STATS Click on the pic for a bigger view. Since a few games were played yesterday Haskins has moved up to 6th and JT to 18th.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 11:02:03 GMT -5
Many cannot agree with calling ESPN a sham or fake stats.
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Post by DrTorch on Dec 17, 2017 12:03:56 GMT -5
Wisconsin??? Why would that be on your mind when JT never left this game? So just to return to the claim made by 1%, you now know that UM was winning 20-14 when JT left the game last month and Haskins was the QB when they took the lead and won the game. The small minded forgets that Ohio State was down 14-0 when JT led them out of the doldrums of defeat and tied the game almost singled handedly. It's amazing how many gypsy card readers we have who can foretell the future and see Ohio State not winning this game if JT doesn't get hurt. To back up their claims they use Oigee boards. THREW A PASS RIGHT INTO A DEFENDER'S BREADBASKET THAT WAS DROPPED OR WE WOULD NOT HAVE BEATEN UM AT ALL. There, fixed that for ya.
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Post by sportsjock on Dec 17, 2017 12:50:16 GMT -5
NOPE. Google "Total Quarterback Rating - College football". You will find JT Barrett ranked 7th and Duane Haskins no where to be found, since he only played 1/24th of a season. OR Google "Passing Efficiency | FBS football statistics". There you will find JT Barrett ranked #8 and Duane Haskins NO WHERE to be found. Anyone who would give a rating to a QB that only played 1/24th of a season is a complete sham. FAKE STATS Click on the pic for a bigger view. Since a few games were played yesterday Haskins has moved up to 6th and JT to 18th. Including rarely used bench warmers with few snaps is the height of irrelevance and should not qualify for any mention on ratings.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 12:54:19 GMT -5
No OSU fan forgot that the Buckeyes were down 14-0 or how the Buckeyes tied the score up at 14-14. The statement was that when JT left the game UM was winning 20-14 and he never returned. The end result was an OSU win 31-20.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 13:55:49 GMT -5
Click on the pic for a bigger view. Since a few games were played yesterday Haskins has moved up to 6th and JT to 18th. Including rarely used bench warmers with few snaps is the height of irrelevance and should not qualify for any mention on ratings. Please make us a list of the stats that are irrelevant so we can move forward. A player that provides a stat coming off the bench shows that players value. Everyone knows the quantity of the time from which the data is collected is a factor but stats from everyone can provide something. And I doubt many were calling Haskins a "bench wramer" when he entered the UM game down 20-14 and quarterbacked them to a 31-20 victory.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Dec 17, 2017 14:23:18 GMT -5
Cardale Jones was a "bench warmer" until he came in and finished off Michigan, beat Wisconsin, beat Alabama, and beat Oregon to bring home a National Championship trophy. He was just a 'rarely used bench warmer with few snaps'.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 17, 2017 15:19:44 GMT -5
The small minded forgets that Ohio State was down 14-0 when JT led them out of the doldrums of defeat and tied the game almost singled handedly. It's amazing how many gypsy card readers we have who can foretell the future and see Ohio State not winning this game if JT doesn't get hurt. To back up their claims they use Oigee boards. THREW A PASS RIGHT INTO A DEFENDER'S BREADBASKET THAT WAS DROPPED OR WE WOULD NOT HAVE BEATEN UM AT ALL. There, fixed that for ya. You're the one the that needs fixed. Are you saying that was the first time in the history of football that has happened?? Are you saying that when a pass like that IS intercepted instead of being dropped, that every game in the history of football has always been lost?? Only one of NCOAST's gypsy card readers, oigee board enthusiasts, soothsayers that purport to 100% know what will happen in the future has such nerve. Go have a seance elsewhere.
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