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Post by ronmexico on Dec 1, 2022 11:27:47 GMT -5
You are absolutely correct on all points you made.
Football players are not leaving Glenville and some are transferring in to play football. All I'm saying is the number reduction is not due to football. Other students are leaving the school to go to other schools in Cleveland. This is not some scheme to get them to DIV. Also, I understand how the state comes in, but there is still a per pupil price tag which results in a reduction of funding whether it be from property taxes or the state.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 1, 2022 12:07:46 GMT -5
What is the number reduction do to? Why so drastic in just the past 10 years? I'm trying REAL hard to get REAL examples.
Why would any student leave Glenville With Ginn Sr doing so much for non football players there? Why are so many more transferring out compared to transferring in? THAT is what Glenville's "leaders" need to be looking into. No Tax dollar leaves until AFTER a student leaves and it takes much longer to happen than the following year.
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Post by sbclives on Dec 1, 2022 12:38:59 GMT -5
I like how school funding being talked about here. Glenville and Ginn have a lot of resources and high up connections who make generous donations to that school.
It also must be nice to have kids come from all over of a city with over 350,000 people in it while a town like Bellevue has 8000 in it but in the same division.
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don
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Post by don on Dec 1, 2022 13:18:21 GMT -5
I like how school funding being talked about here. Glenville and Ginn have a lot of resources and high up connections who make generous donations to that school. It also must be nice to have kids come from all over of a city with over 350,000 people in it while a town like Bellevue has 8000 in it but in the same division. definitely sad to see to what Bellevue football was & to what they are now. Time for a new regime.
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Post by sbclives on Dec 1, 2022 13:32:25 GMT -5
I like how school funding being talked about here. Glenville and Ginn have a lot of resources and high up connections who make generous donations to that school. It also must be nice to have kids come from all over of a city with over 350,000 people in it while a town like Bellevue has 8000 in it but in the same division. definitely sad to see to what Bellevue football was & to what they are now. Time for a new regime. Same can be said for a lot of schools. Huron, Bellevue, SMCC, Monroeville and the list goes on and on. Football will never be what it was in this area. Look how many schools are barely hanging on to having football and some who have already thrown in the towel.
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Post by jakethesnake2 on Dec 1, 2022 13:52:32 GMT -5
I like how school funding being talked about here. Glenville and Ginn have a lot of resources and high up connections who make generous donations to that school. It also must be nice to have kids come from all over of a city with over 350,000 people in it while a town like Bellevue has 8000 in it but in the same division. Bellevue City Schools Population, I believe, is about 12,000.
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Post by ronmexico on Dec 1, 2022 14:22:37 GMT -5
Real = in 2010 "East Cleveland" had an estimated population of 24,000. Today it is around 14,000. *Not all boys are going to go to Ginn Academy because it's a good institution. (EHOVE is a good school, but some kids decide to stay at Sandusky/Perkins/Bellevue High School because of what they have to offer.) *Many schools in Cleveland have had some major shifts as they have closed down some and opened others.
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Post by Birdman on Dec 1, 2022 18:47:06 GMT -5
I had a chance to meet Ginn Sr., a few times back in 2003. He is a good guy who really does try to help kids make it out of troubled pasts. Unless someone knows what it’s like to live in a gang ridden, drug plagued, poor neighborhood where 3 meals a day isn’t a given, I wouldn’t ask about the other 10k kids. The guy can only help out so many and one kid at a time, he tries to make a difference. These neighborhoods in 2022 are not the same one we grew up in.
Some of those athletes on the team are looking at serious D1 offers. Why wouldn’t they go to a bigger school against better overall talent… I think there is a reason they stayed and it isn’t just because they’re playing for a state title. Mentoring might also be important to them.
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wetsu
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Post by wetsu on Dec 1, 2022 18:54:40 GMT -5
The forum ignorance strikes again. People just say anything on here. Glenville enrollment = 567 students Perkins enrollment = 578 students Steubenville = 627 students Cincinnati Wyoming = 648 students Go Tigers Must be nice when you can get all the best players from the other Senate League schools and other surrounding schools and have an all star team while the schools they play have kids from their own backyards. Seems fair and equal. Collinwood is essentially in the neighborhood and I ran into the then HC from Collinwood at a BGSU game a few years ago, he explained to me that Glenville had "taken" several of his kids (his word, not mine) over the years. I presumed that they weren't taking the backups. Look at Collinwood now.
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Post by cbus on Dec 2, 2022 6:49:25 GMT -5
Glenville's 200 male enrollment drop in 10 years is a result of several factors, but it's not because of Ted Ginn Sr. Not sure if you are sure of how open enrollment works with Cleveland Public Schools (CMSD). Glenville's leaders are not going to take that reduction in funding for a good football team. At the end of the day, Ginn Sr. has and does good things for kids on the east side of Cleveland regardless if they play football or not. Clueless I am not sir. Where did I say that it was because of Ted Ginn Sr??? I am WELL aware of how Ohio's Open Enrollment Program works. I am certain more so than you. As the Ontario School District gets about $1.5 million annually from Open Enrollment students. I know THE single factor for the reason it happens and it's not football. Who are Glenville's leaders? PLEASE, enlighten us on the "several factors", that only occurred in the past 10 years and not the previous 20. What are all the "good things" Glnn Sr does on a yearly basis for the 10's of thousands of kids on the East side of Cleveland that don't play football? Do you live on the East side? Willard, You seem to have a problem with how the competitive balance is calculated. What is an example of a situation that you think is unfair and benefits Glenville? How would you change it to make it better and more fair?
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don
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Post by don on Dec 2, 2022 10:56:56 GMT -5
Willard doesn’t know s***
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 2, 2022 16:34:42 GMT -5
Where did I say that it was because of Ted Ginn Sr??? I am WELL aware of how Ohio's Open Enrollment Program works. I am certain more so than you. As the Ontario School District gets about $1.5 million annually from Open Enrollment students. I know THE single factor for the reason it happens and it's not football. Who are Glenville's leaders? PLEASE, enlighten us on the "several factors", that only occurred in the past 10 years and not the previous 20. What are all the "good things" Glnn Sr does on a yearly basis for the 10's of thousands of kids on the East side of Cleveland that don't play football? Do you live on the East side? Willard, You seem to have a problem with how the competitive balance is calculated. What is an example of a situation that you think is unfair and benefits Glenville? How would you change it to make it better and more fair? The Competitive Balance Formula was instituted by the OHSAA to keep schools in a higher Division or move them to a higher Division IF they got a lot of open enrollments or move-ins to play a specific sport. Generally, the school will have a very good program in a sport. However, NO intra-district transfers are counted in the Competitive Balance Formula. It is even stated by Glenville that they get a lot of kids from other Cleveland schools using intra-district transfers to play football at Glenville. Thus, their Competitive Balance "adder" for football is ZERO. Easy fix here. Count intra-district transfers in the Competitive Balance Formula when appropriate. The adverse situation is Ontario. I use Ontario as an example only because of my familiarity with the District. Although I am certain there are many more in Ohio, which this affects. As is obvious, no one Open Enrolls or moves to Ontario to play football. Other than Soccer, the 100's that open enroll or move there, do it for the academics. Some of the kids that open enroll for academics decide to play football. None are All-Ohio or All-District players when they transfer. Most only stand on the side lines until Seniors or Juniors, before they can contribute. Yet it makes no difference in calculating the Competitive Balance Formula. A First Team All-Ohio player counts just as much and every year he's ebeen on the team even though he's a back-up as a Senior. The fix in this situation should be easy to track and adjust accordingly, by keeping track of the excellence of kids who transfer. This year Ontario moved up a Division due to their Competitive Balance "adder". Which made no difference at all at this time since they do not have a good program. However, Glenville once again moved down a Division since NO intra-district transfers count in the Competitive Blalance Formula. Which obviously was an issue for other teams in their new Division. Hope this satisfies and makes sense. Knowing it won't for THE Don.
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Post by BellevueBuckeye on Dec 2, 2022 16:48:43 GMT -5
PSA for anyone interested in the actual state title games, there are individual threads for each of them over in the Ohio Football forum.
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don
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Post by don on Dec 2, 2022 21:55:32 GMT -5
Willard, You seem to have a problem with how the competitive balance is calculated. What is an example of a situation that you think is unfair and benefits Glenville? How would you change it to make it better and more fair? The Competitive Balance Formula was instituted by the OHSAA to keep schools in a higher Division or move them to a higher Division IF they got a lot of open enrollments or move-ins to play a specific sport. Generally, the school will have a very good program in a sport. However, NO intra-district transfers are counted in the Competitive Balance Formula. It is even stated by Glenville that they get a lot of kids from other Cleveland schools using intra-district transfers to play football at Glenville. Thus, their Competitive Balance "adder" for football is ZERO. Easy fix here. Count intra-district transfers in the Competitive Balance Formula when appropriate. The adverse situation is Ontario. I use Ontario as an example only because of my familiarity with the District. Although I am certain there are many more in Ohio, which this affects. As is obvious, no one Open Enrolls or moves to Ontario to play football. Other than Soccer, the 100's that open enroll or move there, do it for the academics. Some of the kids that open enroll for academics decide to play football. None are All-Ohio or All-District players when they transfer. Most only stand on the side lines until Seniors or Juniors, before they can contribute. Yet it makes no difference in calculating the Competitive Balance Formula. A First Team All-Ohio player counts just as much and every year he's ebeen on the team even though he's a back-up as a Senior. The fix in this situation should be easy to track and adjust accordingly, by keeping track of the excellence of kids who transfer. This year Ontario moved up a Division due to their Competitive Balance "adder". Which made no difference at all at this time since they do not have a good program. However, Glenville once again moved down a Division since NO intra-district transfers count in the Competitive Blalance Formula. Which obviously was an issue for other teams in their new Division. Hope this satisfies and makes sense. Knowing it won't for THE Don. no one has time to read this
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Post by cbus on Dec 3, 2022 9:25:42 GMT -5
Willard, That seems like a pretty big loophole that all the big city public school districts enjoy. Of course most big city public schools are not very good at football.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 3, 2022 10:49:07 GMT -5
Same for ALL "team sports" ...Another one I can't figure out. Why isn't wrestling considered a team sport by the OHSAA? When they award TWO team sport Championship trophies every year in wrestling. Helps St.Paris Graham and others a lot.
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Post by fanofthegame on Dec 10, 2022 8:40:40 GMT -5
So are those that are hating on Glenville suggesting they got smaller on purpose to drop divisions? How would a school go about doing that? They can’t make kids leave. Maybe a kid hops on the RTA and goes to a school known for its science curriculum and he can’t walk and chew gum at the same time so football isn’t important to him. There are schools that specialize in the arts. On line has grown. I highly doubt the administration of Glenville is actively running kids off. Sure, the football program has benefited from it with the division drop, but suggesting they did it on purpose is a heck of a conspiracy theory.
WF does have a point. The competitive balance formula is designed to level the playing field and it does the opposite for a district like Ontario. They are getting more kids, but not likely getting a lot more football players because their net influx is for academic reasons not the football program.
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Post by sportsvideo on Dec 10, 2022 9:09:02 GMT -5
So are those that are hating on Glenville suggesting they got smaller on purpose to drop divisions? How would a school go about doing that? They can’t make kids leave. Maybe a kid hops on the RTA and goes to a school known for its science curriculum and he can’t walk and chew gum at the same time so football isn’t important to him. There are schools that specialize in the arts. On line has grown. I highly doubt the administration of Glenville is actively running kids off. Sure, the football program has benefited from it with the division drop, but suggesting they did it on purpose is a heck of a conspiracy theory. WF does have a point. The competitive balance formula is designed to level the playing field and it does the opposite for a district like Ontario. They are getting more kids, but not likely getting a lot more football players because their net influx is for academic reasons not the football program. "just getting more kids" doesn't effect their Counter Balance unless they play football.. it will effect what division they're in however. if 40 kids open enroll into the system but don't play football that is 40 more kids on enrollment but does not show up on the CB unless they play football..
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Post by fanofthegame on Dec 10, 2022 9:17:25 GMT -5
So are those that are hating on Glenville suggesting they got smaller on purpose to drop divisions? How would a school go about doing that? They can’t make kids leave. Maybe a kid hops on the RTA and goes to a school known for its science curriculum and he can’t walk and chew gum at the same time so football isn’t important to him. There are schools that specialize in the arts. On line has grown. I highly doubt the administration of Glenville is actively running kids off. Sure, the football program has benefited from it with the division drop, but suggesting they did it on purpose is a heck of a conspiracy theory. WF does have a point. The competitive balance formula is designed to level the playing field and it does the opposite for a district like Ontario. They are getting more kids, but not likely getting a lot more football players because their net influx is for academic reasons not the football program. "just getting more kids" doesn't effect their Counter Balance unless they play football.. it will effect what division they're in however. if 40 kids open enroll into the system but don't play football that is 40 more kids on enrollment but does not show up on the CB unless they play football.. Yep, I get that. Some ARE going to play football, they just aren’t going to be studs because they didn’t transfer if FOR football.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 10, 2022 13:21:16 GMT -5
So are those that are hating on Glenville suggesting they got smaller on purpose to drop divisions? How would a school go about doing that? They can’t make kids leave. Maybe a kid hops on the RTA and goes to a school known for its science curriculum and he can’t walk and chew gum at the same time so football isn’t important to him. There are schools that specialize in the arts. On line has grown. I highly doubt the administration of Glenville is actively running kids off. Sure, the football program has benefited from it with the division drop, but suggesting they did it on purpose is a heck of a conspiracy theory. WF does have a point. The competitive balance formula is designed to level the playing field and it does the opposite for a district like Ontario. They are getting more kids, but not likely getting a lot more football players because their net influx is for academic reasons not the football program. "just getting more kids" doesn't effect their Counter Balance unless they play football.. it will effect what division they're in however. if 40 kids open enroll into the system but don't play football that is 40 more kids on enrollment but does not show up on the CB unless they play football.. The MANY kids that open enroll or move to Ontario from Mansfield are not the football or basketball players. The ones that go out for football didn't transfer to Ontario to play sports, thus they are not big difference makers on the football field. The kids that use intra-district transfers(DO NOT count in CBF) to Glenville to play football do so in hopes of getting a college scholarship for football, not academics. Just the opposite of Ontario. ' Yet both are judged under the same rules, even though completely different set of circumstances.
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