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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 27, 2023 12:20:21 GMT -5
That guy has been doing it for over 30 years and I'm not sure he has gotten any better. You would have a better chance of getting a tournament game then he should, and you have been out of it for a long time. I have seen 2 younger female officials that are much better than over 50% of the more experienced male officials in this area. Maybe they prefer doing girls tournament games.
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Post by Big Lex Fan on Feb 27, 2023 16:44:10 GMT -5
Lets look forward to the games. Both games will be great. Sandusky and Lexington has beaten their opponents in the regular season could they repeat that feat again or does the other team learn from what happened the first time. Few things to look at. Can Sandusky handle Senior's bigs again and control the tempo. Can Senior handle Sandusky's pressure and not turn the ball over. Will the two players that has missed the last four games be available for this game and if they are will they help. Lexington has struggled against teams that are guard heavy. Can Shelby contain Lexington's bigs and make shots like they failed to do when they played Lexington the first time. I am going to say Sandusky and Shelby in the final, with Sandusky winning the District Ok, I have an "opinion" on these what could be instant classics. Lex vs Shelby- I really think if the 2 disciplined players are back for Lex then the Minutemen will wear down the Whippets. They did not play in the 1st meeting. Lexington's size will be too much for Shelby to overcome. It still will be a close game and a little more of a defensive lower scoring game. Lex will have to keep a hand in Bruskotter's face. But being a homer I will take Lex 57-52. Mansfield Sr. vs Sandusky- Mansfield will have La La Owens back for this match up with the Blue Streaks. Sandusky has to great athletes in Moore and Green which may give them an advantage. But I like the TYgers in the rematch in a close one 73-70. I believe Lexington's an Mansfield's schedule have prepared them for these games and could set up an all OCC district final.
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Post by fanofthegame on Feb 27, 2023 17:44:43 GMT -5
I would like to see the rule on a player leaving the floor and returning. I’ve watched a lot of high school basketball and have never seen anyone called for entering from a significant distance away from where s/he left. I’m not saying it’s not a rule, but if it is it is rarely enforced.
For Shelby v Lex a half court game favors Lex. If Lex is methodical, doesn’t turn the ball over, and feeds the post on offense it’s to their advantage. Unless Shelby has worked a lot on their zone offense or shoots lights out from three they’ll struggle on O. If I were coaching Shelby I would work a lot on zone offense and I’d have a half court press to get turnovers and transition points. That’s what they love, but couldn’t get into their full court press because they couldn’t score in the first matchup. You can’t get into a full court press if you can’t score.
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Post by baldref on Feb 27, 2023 18:51:45 GMT -5
From a Q and A on a national HS and college referee site:
"As many may remember, not too long ago, the penalty for leaving the court voluntarily was a very harsh technical foul, but that has since changed to a kinder, more palatable sentence and is only ruled a violation. Once the whistle is sounded, the ball becomes dead and the usual procedure for a violation is followed, resuming play with the ball being awarded to the opponents of the violating team for a throw-in nearest the spot of the violation (NFHS 7-5-2; NCAAM 7-3.2; NCAAW 7-4.1).
What if the player is bumped out, or better yet, what if the player is running so hard to save a ball from going out of bounds that his or her momentum carries the player off the court? And what if after coming back in and establishing inbound status, that player is the first to touch the ball again? When we reference the rulebooks at all levels, there is no direct wording prohibiting an accidental or unintentional exit of the playing court, therefore suggesting any action causing a player to “go out” involuntarily would be legal.
Many officials do not like to go on “assumptions” and find it hard to accept a one-size-fits-all ruling on plays that do not have explicit language telling them such. Luckily, those officials do have that luxury in this “unwritten” rule. The casebook in each of the three respective rules codes has a scenario that explains this exact type of play."
Ive been out of the "business" for more than a few years and it was a technical at that time. Now, given this wording, it does not appear so, but still doesn't really answer the question of running, voluntarily, out of bounds for several seconds and then re-entering and touching the ball. I no longer have my rulebooks so no help there.
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Post by dude on Feb 27, 2023 21:42:45 GMT -5
Ive been out of the "business" for more than a few years and it was a technical at that time. Now, given this wording, it does not appear so, but still doesn't really answer the question of running, voluntarily, out of bounds for several seconds and then re-entering and touching the ball. I no longer have my rulebooks so no help there. To be clear about the action that happened, the player re-entered the game but did not touch the ball after do so. The ball was tipped out of bounds by another player. But it does sound like, no violation occurred.
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Post by buckeyefan73 on Feb 27, 2023 22:30:14 GMT -5
I have Sandusky beating the TYgers in a close game and Lexington beating Shelby with Lexington beating Sandusky for the title.
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Post by buckeyekid on Feb 28, 2023 8:40:41 GMT -5
Sandusky Shelby Sandusky wins District Lex is overrated imo . Sr High no discipline
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bat21
All Conference
Posts: 149
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Post by bat21 on Feb 28, 2023 9:20:25 GMT -5
Asinine statement. What coach wouldn't?
I think its funny that no one is addressing the fact the a technical foul should have been assessed for the player who went out of bounds after a loose ball to then run the length of the floor BEHIND THE SCORERS TABLE to jump over the Willard bench ... knocking down a coach and a referee while trying to get back into play. That is an automatic T ... not a discretionary T THUS, no more doltish than yours! At least be accurate in assessments, when done so, one's points are more salient and respected. Leaving the court at one bench and reentering at the other bench, does not amount to "run the length of the floor". If that's the best you can do ... I stand corrected on my misjudgement of the distance. The play was a violation none the less. It will change nothing about the outcome or who plays on Thursday. I had a player once pull a similar stunt except on the base line trying to get around a screen. The official called it immediately and explained it to me that a player cannot leave the field of play ... voluntarily ... to gain an advantage. I didn't ask for chapter and verse on the violation ... but I didn't forget it either
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Post by dude on Feb 28, 2023 9:49:24 GMT -5
If that's the best you can do ... I stand corrected on my misjudgement of the distance. The play was a violation none the less. It will change nothing about the outcome or who plays on Thursday. I had a player once pull a similar stunt except on the base line trying to get around a screen. The official called it immediately and explained it to me that a player cannot leave the field of play ... voluntarily ... to gain an advantage. I didn't ask for chapter and verse on the violation ... but I didn't forget it either Coaches used to design plays to have a player drive the ball baseline and jump out of bounds to toss it to the opposite corner for a open shot. This also was called a violation when they are focused on a offensive player voluntarily leaving the floor repeatedly to gain an advantage. This rule has been relaxed from a technical to a change of possession. Running after a loose ball does not fall into this example of the rule and in the action you are using the dead ball was awarded to Willard. Although it had nothing to do with this player jumping back on the court.
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Post by dude on Feb 28, 2023 9:52:21 GMT -5
Sandusky Shelby Sandusky wins District Lex is overrated imo . Sr High no discipline Way to follow the seedings. Sandusky is the #1 seed Shelby is the #2 seed Lexington #3 seed as rated Mansfield #5 seed and has played without discipline for 15 years. Bellevue may have been the team overrated as the #4?
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 28, 2023 10:46:35 GMT -5
THUS, no more doltish than yours! At least be accurate in assessments, when done so, one's points are more salient and respected. Leaving the court at one bench and reentering at the other bench, does not amount to "run the length of the floor". If that's the best you can do ... I stand corrected on my misjudgement of the distance. The play was a violation none the less. It will change nothing about the outcome or who plays on Thursday. I had a player once pull a similar stunt except on the base line trying to get around a screen. The official called it immediately and explained it to me that a player cannot leave the field of play ... voluntarily ... to gain an advantage. I didn't ask for chapter and verse on the violation ... but I didn't forget it either The best you can do is "asinine", which I noticed magically disappeared from this thread, which is also "asinine". You were asked to cite the rule that covers this situation. Did I miss it? In the play you recall, did the official judge it obvious the player gained an advantage? What if the player had gone behind the screen to avoid running over the player setting the screen, but never came back on the floor until after a shot was taken? Is a player allowed to avoid making a foul? Would an advantage have occurred in that case? As not in this case? I am positive that you are aware there are "ticky tack" fouls happening all the time, but are not called. Judgements by officials. JMO, and it's ok with me if you have a differing view, as long as you don't hurl insults. I will forgive, since your hurling happened after your alma mater lost a hard fought game and you were in a bad place.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 28, 2023 10:56:59 GMT -5
Sandusky Shelby Sandusky wins District Lex is overrated imo . Sr High no discipline Way to follow the seedings. Sandusky is the #1 seed Shelby is the #2 seed Lexington #3 seed as rated Mansfield #5 seed and has played without discipline for 15 years. Bellevue may have been the team overrated as the #4 Since I did not see this game and dude has interjected the "overrated" cheer. Did the relatively close final score of the Senior/Bellevue game indicate Bellevue played really well OR did Senior have close to their worst effort of the season?
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Post by 419bossman on Feb 28, 2023 11:04:26 GMT -5
If you read the article from the Sandusky Register, it was a great game between Bellevue and Senior. Senior did lead most of the game but Bellevue battled all night long, tying it a few times in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Free throws and getting offense boards doomed Bellevue in the end. So no Bellevue wasn't overrated. going 16-7 in the and 8-4 in the SBC with wins over Margaretta, Tiffin, Eastwood, Perkins(twice), and Huron as key wins. Bellevue had its best season since 01-02, they have to replace two seniors. I can see them contending again for the league.
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Post by dude on Feb 28, 2023 11:50:11 GMT -5
If you read the article from the Sandusky Register, it was a great game between Bellevue and Senior. Senior did lead most of the game but Bellevue battled all night long, tying it a few times in the 3rd and 4th quarters. Free throws and getting offense boards doomed Bellevue in the end. So no Bellevue wasn't overrated. going 16-7 in the and 8-4 in the SBC with wins over Margaretta, Tiffin, Eastwood, Perkins(twice), and Huron as key wins. Bellevue had its best season since 01-02, they have to replace two seniors. I can see them contending again for the league. Sorry, that was supposed to be a question not a statement, only because the #5 seed advanced and not the #4.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 28, 2023 18:34:34 GMT -5
Often not much of a difference between 4 and 5 seeds, THUS the touching seeds.
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Post by dude on Mar 1, 2023 8:10:25 GMT -5
Interesting note, the rating system formula that was used in the NW this seasons for seeding has Mansfield seeded #4 after playing a full 22 game season.
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Post by jmorgret07 on Mar 1, 2023 8:27:16 GMT -5
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Post by edchambers on Mar 1, 2023 12:26:34 GMT -5
Interesting note, the rating system formula that was used in the NW this seasons for seeding has Mansfield seeded #4 after playing a full 22 game season. Also interesting that Tiffin Columbian ended the regular season as the #1 team in Division I for NW Ohio under the same system.
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Post by dude on Mar 1, 2023 12:46:46 GMT -5
Interesting note, the rating system formula that was used in the NW this seasons for seeding has Mansfield seeded #4 after playing a full 22 game season. Also interesting that Tiffin Columbian ended the regular season as the #1 team in Division I for NW Ohio under the same system. Picked up a lot of points by beating Findlay at home in game 21 of their season.
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bat21
All Conference
Posts: 149
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Post by bat21 on Mar 1, 2023 13:44:21 GMT -5
If that's the best you can do ... I stand corrected on my misjudgement of the distance. The play was a violation none the less. It will change nothing about the outcome or who plays on Thursday. I had a player once pull a similar stunt except on the base line trying to get around a screen. The official called it immediately and explained it to me that a player cannot leave the field of play ... voluntarily ... to gain an advantage. I didn't ask for chapter and verse on the violation ... but I didn't forget it either Coaches used to design plays to have a player drive the ball baseline and jump out of bounds to toss it to the opposite corner for a open shot. This also was called a violation when they are focused on a offensive player voluntarily leaving the floor repeatedly to gain an advantage. This rule has been relaxed from a technical to a change of possession. Running after a loose ball does not fall into this example of the rule and in the action you are using the dead ball was awarded to Willard. Although it had nothing to do with this player jumping back on the court. You are correct . The rule has changed. My experience with the ruling was some years ago.
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bat21
All Conference
Posts: 149
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Post by bat21 on Mar 1, 2023 14:08:56 GMT -5
If that's the best you can do ... I stand corrected on my misjudgement of the distance. The play was a violation none the less. It will change nothing about the outcome or who plays on Thursday. I had a player once pull a similar stunt except on the base line trying to get around a screen. The official called it immediately and explained it to me that a player cannot leave the field of play ... voluntarily ... to gain an advantage. I didn't ask for chapter and verse on the violation ... but I didn't forget it either The best you can do is "asinine", which I noticed magically disappeared from this thread, which is also "asinine". You were asked to cite the rule that covers this situation. Did I miss it? In the play you recall, did the official judge it obvious the player gained an advantage? What if the player had gone behind the screen to avoid running over the player setting the screen, but never came back on the floor until after a shot was taken? Is a player allowed to avoid making a foul? Would an advantage have occurred in that case? As not in this case? I am positive that you are aware there are "ticky tack" fouls happening all the time, but are not called. Judgements by officials. JMO, and it's ok with me if you have a differing view, as long as you don't hurl insults. I will forgive, since your hurling happened after your alma mater lost a hard fought game and you were in a bad place. I stand by what I said as far as the statement about wanting one of those big guys and two good guards. I didn't remove it before and will say it again ... I thought it was an asinine statement. Who wouldn't want that at the high school level ... let alone Bob Haas. As far as being in a bad place ... hardly at my age. I do hate to see the Flashes programs lose ... but that's just me being a Willard guy. Your source for the comment isn't always as right as he thinks he is! lol
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Post by jakethesnake2 on Mar 1, 2023 15:54:36 GMT -5
I would feel much better for Lex if their shot selection and free throw shooting were on point
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Post by Big Lex Fan on Mar 1, 2023 21:55:10 GMT -5
Rocky River Lutheran West 84 Lorain Brookside 48
Not Div II but interesting nonetheless... Euclid Brush 42 Akron SVSM 37
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Post by falcon26 on Mar 2, 2023 0:04:04 GMT -5
I think Senior will beat Sandusky for some odd reason.
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Post by sbclives on Mar 2, 2023 0:38:43 GMT -5
Rocky River Lutheran West 84 Lorain Brookside 48 Not Div II but interesting nonetheless... Euclid Brush 42 Akron SVSM 37 The OHSAA has to find something to DQ Brush with now.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 2, 2023 10:50:15 GMT -5
ASVSM is dominant in DII, not so much in DI.The "something different" that will be found will be done by ASVSM, in reducing enrollment to get them back in DII
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Mar 2, 2023 11:23:18 GMT -5
I watched Marquette win the Big East, spurring a Marquette graduate friend of mine to harass me with memes about why my Friars suck.
Then I watched Xavier snap Providence's undefeated home season last night, spurring a personal protest of going to Weber's in Shelby due to the bartender being a Xavier fan.
Luckily, I have curated my life carefully to not be friends with anyone from Lexington. No one can hurt me tonight. I think I'm catching onto this "safe space" thing.
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Post by dude on Mar 2, 2023 11:35:11 GMT -5
I watched Marquette win the Big East, spurring a Marquette graduate friend of mine to harass me with memes about why my Friars suck. Then I watched Xavier snap Providence's undefeated home season last night, spurring a personal protest of going to Weber's in Shelby due to the bartender being a Xavier fan. Luckily, I have curated my life carefully to not be friends with anyone from Lexington. No one can hurt me tonight. I think I'm catching onto this "safe space" thing. We currently live in a sad world, and I admit to being a part of it. In the past when our teams lost a contest it was normal to be upset but want the winning team to go as far as possible so that we could say were were beat by the team that accomplished so much. A good example would be losing a close game early in postseason and then watching the team that beat you, win regionals. Fans could say with pride they lost to a final 4 team and that could have been them. In today's world everyone wants revenge to feel better and cheers for the misery of others. In my younger years when my high school teams lost, I wanted the team that beat us to win state. When my college teams lost I wanted that team to win the title. We all find some satisfaction to rip apart the success of others for some reason.
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marchmadness
All Conference
2021 Playoff Pick'em Champion
Posts: 324
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Post by marchmadness on Mar 2, 2023 11:45:19 GMT -5
Is dude okay?
Is Lex back at full strength or still dealing with suspensions? Do those suspensions make a big difference?
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Post by dude on Mar 2, 2023 11:49:04 GMT -5
The Dude is fine. As always just tossing out some observations and stating changes in my lifetime.
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