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Post by portwalk on Feb 13, 2017 19:13:04 GMT -5
Uppers first 3 opps. Shawnee, Wapak and OG are ALL better than anyone they played in their 22-0 regular season... Haha. Have not gotten to 22 wins yet😎😎 Who in the world could they possibly lose to on that schedule...
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Post by jjmcomb on Feb 13, 2017 21:37:33 GMT -5
Oh, ok the orange and black got it figured out against 2 teams with a combined 8-29 record.
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Post by Whittaker on Feb 14, 2017 0:23:40 GMT -5
Upper can't do much about their conf schedule. Maybe they need to drop some cupcakes off their non-conf schedule. That would be: Willard New Riegel Galion Shelby Bellevue Tiffin Columbian
Funny how those are 5 of the 7 schools they played against in the NOL. Seven years ago Upper was called cowardly for not wanting to play those "tough" schools 10 times a year. Now Upper is criticized for playing those "cupcake" schools 5 times a year. These things go in cycles and its hard to predict who to schedule too far out.
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Post by jjmcomb on Feb 14, 2017 6:17:39 GMT -5
The cupcake is their league, no issue with the non-conference. Even in a good year, the N-10 has maybe 2 competitive teams; and that is in D4.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 8:31:18 GMT -5
Whit, Upper has total control over their conference. It wasn't like they joined a league with D1 schools who shrunk. They knew what they were joining and were okay with it.
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Post by portwalk on Feb 14, 2017 8:39:04 GMT -5
Agree with the last two posts... The non-con games have been their toughest of the season. Not their fault Shelby is adequate, TC is not good and Bellevue and Willard are down... Their MOST competitive games have been against these teams that says a lot. The most staggering thing is they play these same tiny schools in FOOTBALL and don't win every game???
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 9:15:24 GMT -5
Agree with the last two posts... The non-con games have been their toughest of the season. Not their fault Shelby is adequate, TC is not good and Bellevue and Willard are down... Their MOST competitive games have been against these teams that says a lot. The most staggering thing is they play these same tiny schools in FOOTBALL and don't win every game??? Answer to your question at the end. Coaching matters
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bigox
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Post by bigox on Feb 14, 2017 10:42:47 GMT -5
Agree with the last two posts... The non-con games have been their toughest of the season. Not their fault Shelby is adequate, TC is not good and Bellevue and Willard are down... Their MOST competitive games have been against these teams that says a lot. The most staggering thing is they play these same tiny schools in FOOTBALL and don't win every game??? Answer to your question at the end. Coaching matters [br And kids going out for football. Of the 12 boys on the basketball roster none of them were on the football team. Plus the soccer team has had its highest numbers in last 3 years. Football just isn't as big a thing at Upper for some reason.
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Post by jjmcomb on Feb 14, 2017 12:18:58 GMT -5
Bringing football into the discussion furthers the wrong league argument. I'm pretty confident that even if Upper went 10-0 in football, they would have a hard time making the D4 playoffs. Carey didn't make the D5 playoffs in the first year of the N10 at 8-2 if I remember correctly. So why is Upper in the N10? Administrative and coaching security?
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Hagen
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Post by Hagen on Feb 14, 2017 12:21:00 GMT -5
The cupcake is their league, no issue with the non-conference. Even in a good year, the N-10 has maybe 2 competitive teams; and that is in D4. This is a generalization and just isn't correct. Two years ago in the N10's first season (& by far most competitive), Crawford (D3) was 23-2 & lost in district finals. Carey (D3) was 18-5 and was upset in sectionals by Van Wert because they had a top player ruled ineligible for grades. Buckeye Central (D4) was 17-9 and lost in district finals in 2OT. Upper (D2) was 16-7 & lost to Wapak in sectional finals. Wynford (12-11) and Bucyrus (12-12) weren't doorsteps. Maybe that year is the peak of what the N10 can be, but small schools go in cycles. It's currently in the dog poo stage for the league as a whole, but I do think it'll continue to go up and down in future years. No argument that the bottom will always be bad in a small conference, but to say there won't be multiple good teams in future years is asinine. Crawford has set themselves up for a good run with their current junior high and HS underclassmen.
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Hagen
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Post by Hagen on Feb 14, 2017 12:22:40 GMT -5
Bringing football into the discussion furthers the wrong league argument. I'm pretty confident that even if Upper went 10-0 in football, they would have a hard time making the D4 playoffs. Carey didn't make the D5 playoffs in the first year of the N10 at 8-2 if I remember correctly. So why is Upper in the N10? Administrative and coaching security? Short drives and wins. Imagine if they weren't in the N10 what the football record would be... but that's a topic for another thread.
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Post by jjmcomb on Feb 14, 2017 12:44:47 GMT -5
That was also the year there were actually 10 teams, so there were 18 league games. Maybe inflated the records? I think CC has always been D4, maybe I'm wrong. Anyways, you make a good point, the N10 was an ok D3/D4 league for one year. I say ok, because none of the teams you mentioned won a district title that year.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 13:03:32 GMT -5
That was also the year there were actually 10 teams, so there were 18 league games. Maybe inflated the records? I think CC has always been D4, maybe I'm wrong. Anyways, you make a good point, the N10 was an ok D3/D4 league for one year. I say ok, because none of the teams you mentioned won a district title that year. Since going to 4 divisions CC has bounced between D3 and D4 but they have been D3 more years than being D4.
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Post by portwalk on Feb 14, 2017 13:07:12 GMT -5
The cupcake is their league, no issue with the non-conference. Even in a good year, the N-10 has maybe 2 competitive teams; and that is in D4. This is a generalization and just isn't correct. Two years ago in the N10's first season (& by far most competitive), Crawford (D3) was 23-2 & lost in district finals. Carey (D3) was 18-5 and was upset in sectionals by Van Wert because they had a top player ruled ineligible for grades. Buckeye Central (D4) was 17-9 and lost in district finals in 2OT. Upper (D2) was 16-7 & lost to Wapak in sectional finals. Wynford (12-11) and Bucyrus (12-12) weren't doorsteps. Maybe that year is the peak of what the N10 can be, but small schools go in cycles. It's currently in the dog poo stage for the league as a whole, but I do think it'll continue to go up and down in future years. No argument that the bottom will always be bad in a small conference, but to say there won't be multiple good teams in future years is asinine. Crawford has set themselves up for a good run with their current junior high and HS underclassmen. 2015 results----- D2 Upper was bounced by nearly 20 by a .500 WBL squad, D3 Carey was beaten by a 6-15 VW team yes I said 6-15??? CC was 23-1 and beaten by a so-so Eastwood team. BC was pounded by 25 in the D4 District finals by a Fireland's Conference team (unless Davey is wrong). Meanwhile the 12-12 teams you mentioned got pounded by 25 by the aforementioned Eastwood team. So if 2015 was the peak how LOW can it go...
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Post by usramfan on Feb 14, 2017 13:12:12 GMT -5
Upper can't do much about their conf schedule. Maybe they need to drop some cupcakes off their non-conf schedule. That would be: Willard New Riegel Galion Shelby Bellevue Tiffin Columbian Funny how those are 5 of the 7 schools they played against in the NOL. Seven years ago Upper was called cowardly for not wanting to play those "tough" schools 10 times a year. Now Upper is criticized for playing those "cupcake" schools 5 times a year. These things go in cycles and its hard to predict who to schedule too far out. Upper will be dropping New Riegel off the schedule and adding Lexington.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 13:12:37 GMT -5
This is a generalization and just isn't correct. Two years ago in the N10's first season (& by far most competitive), Crawford (D3) was 23-2 & lost in district finals. Carey (D3) was 18-5 and was upset in sectionals by Van Wert because they had a top player ruled ineligible for grades. Buckeye Central (D4) was 17-9 and lost in district finals in 2OT. Upper (D2) was 16-7 & lost to Wapak in sectional finals. Wynford (12-11) and Bucyrus (12-12) weren't doorsteps. Maybe that year is the peak of what the N10 can be, but small schools go in cycles. It's currently in the dog poo stage for the league as a whole, but I do think it'll continue to go up and down in future years. No argument that the bottom will always be bad in a small conference, but to say there won't be multiple good teams in future years is asinine. Crawford has set themselves up for a good run with their current junior high and HS underclassmen. 2015 results----- D2 Upper was bounced by nearly 20 by a .500 WBL squad, D3 Carey was beaten by a 6-15 VW team yes I said 6-15??? CC was 23-1 and beaten by a so-so Eastwood team. BC was pounded by 25 in the D4 District finals by a Fireland's Conference team (unless Davey is wrong). Meanwhile the 12-12 teams you mentioned got pounded by 25 by the aforementioned Eastwood team. So if 2015 was the peak how LOW can it go... Somebody has their facts mixed.
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Hagen
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Post by Hagen on Feb 14, 2017 13:15:26 GMT -5
2015 results----- D2 Upper was bounced by nearly 20 by a .500 WBL squad, D3 Carey was beaten by a 6-15 VW team yes I said 6-15??? CC was 23-1 and beaten by a so-so Eastwood team. BC was pounded by 25 in the D4 District finals by a Fireland's Conference team (unless Davey is wrong). Meanwhile the 12-12 teams you mentioned got pounded by 25 by the aforementioned Eastwood team. So if 2015 was the peak how LOW can it go... Somebody has their facts mixed. Good catch. Used OHSAA.org bracket and saw "OTs:2" next to Plymouth on the winner's line.
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Hagen
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Post by Hagen on Feb 14, 2017 13:27:18 GMT -5
... Maybe that year is the peak of what the N10 can be, but small schools go in cycles. It's currently in the dog poo stage for the league as a whole, but I do think it'll continue to go up and down in future years. No argument that the bottom will always be bad in a small conference, but to say there won't be multiple good teams in future years is asinine. Crawford has set themselves up for a good run with their current junior high and HS underclassmen. 2015 results----- D2 Upper was bounced by nearly 20 by a .500 WBL squad, D3 Carey was beaten by a 6-15 VW team yes I said 6-15??? CC was 23-1 and beaten by a so-so Eastwood team. BC was pounded by 25 in the D4 District finals by a Fireland's Conference team (unless Davey is wrong). Meanwhile the 12-12 teams you mentioned got pounded by 25 by the aforementioned Eastwood team. So if 2015 was the peak how LOW can it go... I never said it was a great league then, just that it was more complete that year than the past two when it's been Upper and everyone else. The N10 is a D3-4 league with Upper thrown in, but I don't think it only fields "maybe 2 competitive teams," as was previously stated.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 14, 2017 14:35:12 GMT -5
Upper can't do much about their conf schedule. Maybe they need to drop some cupcakes off their non-conf schedule. That would be: Willard New Riegel Galion Shelby Bellevue Tiffin Columbian Funny how those are 5 of the 7 schools they played against in the NOL. Seven years ago Upper was called cowardly for not wanting to play those "tough" schools 10 times a year. Now Upper is criticized for playing those "cupcake" schools 5 times a year. These things go in cycles and its hard to predict who to schedule too far out. Ontario is looking for games, and are no further from Upper than Willard, Shelby and Bellevue. Plus a straight shot on US 30
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Post by Whittaker on Feb 14, 2017 16:13:22 GMT -5
People, I was being facetious.
Those NOL schools are not cupcakes although some of them are going through a low. My point was that Upper is in a league, so league games are not up for debate. That leaves Willard, New Riegel, Galion, Shelby, Bellevue and Tiffin. 9 years out of 10, that is a perfectly fine OOC schedule in terms of distance, shared history and competition. It is a bit of a fluke this year that Upper is very good and their non-conf opponents are down.
So we have this false narrative that if Upper had a crystal ball, and scheduled a couple really good teams, THAT would somehow make Upper so much better that they would cruise to state, or at least to regionals. Getting beat does not make you better. Practice makes you better. If playing superior competition is the key to getting better, Ridgedale and Willard should be pretty damn good by now. Personally I think we should give the kids and coaches credit for a fine year and a fine job rather than repeatedly criticizing Upper for the couple of OOC games the AD could have tweaked.
I will agree 100% will W.F. There is no good reason why Ontario shouldn't be a yearly non-conf opponent
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Post by portwalk on Feb 14, 2017 20:00:49 GMT -5
I disagree with the above... - Playing better teams DOES make you better would it get them to regionals couldn't hurt them. - Getting beat doesn't make you better playing better competition DOES. - Willard the last several years has benefited from playing in the NOL that's why they have upset Edison in 15, and NL in 2016 both which had far superior records and were large favorites to move in. JMO
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Post by Whittaker on Feb 14, 2017 23:12:28 GMT -5
Agree better competition helps. That's why they schedule those 6 OOC teams. They would normally be good competition for an Upper squad. But talent and coaching are the overwhelmingly dominant factors.
Willard plays a tough schedule last several years. Upper plays an easy schedule.
Upper-----69 Willard---50
Willard could play Sandusky 16 times in a row while Upper plays the N10 twice. Upper would still beat Willard by 20.
I get the idea that close games prepare a team better for the tourney. I just don't think it helps as much as claimed. There are also some advantages to blowing people out. It builds confidence, let's you give subs more game time, let's you work on things you might not try in a close game. Bottom line...coaches and kids have to play the schedule in front of them and prep the best they can. Talent, coaching, game planning and execution are much more important come tourney time than a game or two played in December or January.
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Post by mcm1019 on Feb 15, 2017 8:40:22 GMT -5
You can only do so much with a schedule. When Norwalk had their run a few years back, plenty of people said they had no chance cuz they didn't play a tough enough schedule (and I realize they did add teams like Whitmer and Lorain). You play the teams that you play, hope to win, and advance.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 10:45:37 GMT -5
You can only do so much with a schedule. When Norwalk had their run a few years back, plenty of people said they had no chance cuz they didn't play a tough enough schedule (and I realize they did add teams like Whitmer and Lorain). You play the teams that you play, hope to win, and advance. Don't forget that Norwalk was D1 the year before their D2 State Championship run. In those 2 years they played teams like Ontario, Toledo Rogers, Ashland, Lexington, Whitmer, Madison, Marion Harding, Wooster, Lorain Sandusky and Mansfield Sr. All of which provided a schedule that was not in question once tournament began in 2014
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 15, 2017 15:42:58 GMT -5
Agree better competition helps. That's why they schedule those 6 OOC teams. They would normally be good competition for an Upper squad. But talent and coaching are the overwhelmingly dominant factors. Willard plays a tough schedule last several years. Upper plays an easy schedule. Upper-----69 Willard---50 Willard could play Sandusky 16 times in a row while Upper plays the N10 twice. Upper would still beat Willard by 20. I get the idea that close games prepare a team better for the tourney. I just don't think it helps as much as claimed. There are also some advantages to blowing people out. It builds confidence, let's you give subs more game time, let's you work on things you might not try in a close game. Bottom line...coaches and kids have to play the schedule in front of them and prep the best they can. Talent, coaching, game planning and execution are much more important come tourney time than a game or two played in December or January. To be successful in the DII tournament it's not so much about just playing same size or bigger schools. When in a small school league, you must schedule schools that have more "athletic" players than are on your roster. Lima, Fremont, Harding, Sandusky, Ontario, Lex, Madison. From West to East, reasonable distances. The athletes you will come up against in the DII Regional and State Tournament. Those athletes aren't on the current rosters of anyone on Upper's non-league schedule and never will be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 15:57:28 GMT -5
You can only do so much with a schedule. When Norwalk had their run a few years back, plenty of people said they had no chance cuz they didn't play a tough enough schedule (and I realize they did add teams like Whitmer and Lorain). You play the teams that you play, hope to win, and advance. Right now, Upper could become the Ontario from 2002-2007. Winning records and conference championships but get nowhere in tournament.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 17:50:28 GMT -5
You can only do so much with a schedule. When Norwalk had their run a few years back, plenty of people said they had no chance cuz they didn't play a tough enough schedule (and I realize they did add teams like Whitmer and Lorain). You play the teams that you play, hope to win, and advance. Right now, Upper could become the Ontario from 2002-2007. Winning records and conference championships but get nowhere in tournament. What is considered going somewhere in the tournament?
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Post by mrsteel on Feb 15, 2017 20:38:50 GMT -5
You can only do so much with a schedule. When Norwalk had their run a few years back, plenty of people said they had no chance cuz they didn't play a tough enough schedule (and I realize they did add teams like Whitmer and Lorain). You play the teams that you play, hope to win, and advance. Right now, Upper could become the Ontario from 2002-2007. Winning records and conference championships but get nowhere in tournament. Like being in the NOL?
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Post by jjmcomb on Feb 15, 2017 20:54:44 GMT -5
Getting somewhere in the tournament when you're 42-0 in the regular season usually results in something more than district semi-finals.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 21:36:50 GMT -5
Getting somewhere in the tournament when you're 42-0 in the regular season usually results in something more than district semi-finals. Your answer is terrible. That run only includes 1 tournament
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