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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 16, 2020 15:31:54 GMT -5
Senior-70 Ontario-56 Final This is one of Joe’s weakest teams. I dont see them making much noise in the tourney. Why? They have 15 wins. Are they weak because they lost tonight to a 9-11 team? Is their schedule to easy, designed to get wins and not make them better? This is Shaq and Griff's 3rd season of playing varsity and Kurtz's 2nd so they have a veteran crew of three guys on the outside. Some teams would love to have that. Dude is clueless as usual. I know EXACTLY what Mr. Steel is eluding to. This Ontario team is a "weak team" physically. A starting 5 that doesn't have a player that weighs over 165. Including a 6-4 160, 6-4 150. The way the game is called these days, they're at a big disadvantage, offensively and defensively. A more physical team has their way with this skinny Ontario team. After a shot, their rebounders get "moved" under the basket out of rebounding position. Time and again last night on foul shots a forearm not extended and a shoulder(allowed these days) would move a skinny Ontario player 3 feet, leaving the Senior player in prime rebounding position. When playing defense the stronger and more physical offensive player has an advantage setting screens and using their body driving to the basket. As a hole, skinny kids do not get calls. Last year Ontario had a 6-4 210, 6-5 215 and a 6-2 180. They didn't get pushed around and when they set picks they were more difficult to get around or through. THE single most important thing returning lettermen and a few JV players could do between now and next year is put on 15 to 20 pounds of muscle. The insulting dude is ignorant. Ontario plays the same number of schools with larger enrollments as Lexington does. BTW clueless dude. To be considered an "average" team by Balogh standards, requires 17 wins.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 16, 2020 16:14:03 GMT -5
3 veteran players on the outside don’t mean a thing when you can only connect on 2 of whatever. They are not a physical team. They don’t rebound well at all. Those that have watched Ontario the last 35 years know. You do not need to watch the same guy coach for 35 years to know that when you return your top 3 players with a combined 8 seasons of varsity experience, you should be good. Your expectation to not make "much noise in the tourney" can be supported by those years you have been watching. Dude's ignorance is boundless. During a timeout last night early in the 3rd quarter when Ontario was still in the game. In a very calm voice, Joe told his team, "I don't have anything to help you. It's as simple as this, for us to win, you've got to start playing defense and rebound." Only the unknowing would not comprehend how defense and rebounding outweighs making 3-pointers. Losing their 3 big physical players from last year to graduation and their 2 most physical players to injury this year would go unnoticed by an unknowledgeable dude from swellsville. "Supported by those years you have been watching". Like last year when they beat Lexington's returning Final Four team with almost all of their players back, including a once in a generation All-Ohio player?
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Post by dude on Feb 16, 2020 20:37:28 GMT -5
That's what a point guard is supposed to do. Being an upset parent does not change the nature of the game. Not sure who you are referring to as an “upset parent” No reference, just a statement.
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Post by whippetfan on Feb 18, 2020 22:49:34 GMT -5
Might have just witnessed the poorest officiated game ever. Senior beats Shelby 66-59 in two OTs. Yes, Shelby missed multiple FTs down the stretch and in the overtime’s but the officials allowed rough play from the start and it reached a boiling point in OT. Shelby missed a shot, Senior got the rebound but a Shelby player tied him up, both players rolled to the floor and wrestled a bit. Shelby player hit with an intentional foul. Three Senior players left the bench but were never seen by the officials. Not arguing the foul but not sure it was intentional. Second bad call. At the beginning of the second OT, Senior was given the ball on alternating possession. I thought each OT started with a jump ball? Funny thing was, there was a tie-up with four seconds left in the first OT that gave Senior the ball so even if that was the rule it should have been Shelby ball. Third bad call. Shelby was fouling at the end to stop the clock. On two separate occasions another player went to the line to shoot the FTs instead of the one who was fouled. Refs finally figured it out the second time. Senior coaches were laughing about it. Very classless coaches, players and fans. If I was the Shelby AD I would pull them off the schedule. No sense in allowing our players and fans to have to be subjected to such an unsportsmanlike atmosphere. Awful environment. Players on their bench turning around mocking our fans. Players clapping in our head coaches face. Disrespectful. Yeah, I’m a little upset
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Post by dude on Feb 18, 2020 23:40:00 GMT -5
Might have just witnessed the poorest officiated game ever. Senior beats Shelby 66-59 in two OTs. Yes, Shelby missed multiple FTs down the stretch and in the overtime’s but the officials allowed rough play from the start and it reached a boiling point in OT. Shelby missed a shot, Senior got the rebound but a Shelby player tied him up, both players rolled to the floor and wrestled a bit. Shelby player hit with an intentional foul. Three Senior players left the bench but were never seen by the officials. Not arguing the foul but not sure it was intentional. Second bad call. At the beginning of the second OT, Senior was given the ball on alternating possession. I thought each OT started with a jump ball? Funny thing was, there was a tie-up with four seconds left in the first OT that gave Senior the ball so even if that was the rule it should have been Shelby ball. Third bad call. Shelby was fouling at the end to stop the clock. On two separate occasions another player went to the line to shoot the FTs instead of the one who was fouled. Refs finally figured it out the second time. Senior coaches were laughing about it. Very classless coaches, players and fans. If I was the Shelby AD I would pull them off the schedule. No sense in allowing our players and fans to have to be subjected to such an unsportsmanlike atmosphere. Awful environment. Players on their bench turning around mocking our fans. Players clapping in our head coaches face. Disrespectful. Yeah, I’m a little upset Officiating was not very good but some of your views are slightly misleading. The Shelby player wrapped his arms around the Mansfield rebounder and physically took him to the floor. The Mansfield player got free and a ref stepped in. The Shelby player was immediately surrounded by Mansfield players and he took off to his bench. The Mansfield coach did restrain 2 players from leaving the bench area but did not stay off the floor. The intentional foul was a gift. The kid should have been tossed for the action. Coincidence, this is the same kid that put a Willard player to the floor when Shelby lost that game. I sat on the Shelby side to watch this game. Big mistake as I think I am deaf in one ear. I will agree there was some classless acts going on in the gym but from my viewpoint they were coming from every corner of the gym from people wearing orange and red. The refs were not of all star caliber but they were consistent for both teams. In other words they were bad both ways in my eyes. The jump ball and the free throws were terrible and both lead to 4 points in a 7 point loss. I thought the environment was good for a high school ball game but it is unfortunate some things did get out of control. I'm glad you are not the Shelby AD as there were no technicals called and no ejections made so there is no reason to pull yourself off of their schedule. Just win the game at home next season and even the series.
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Post by whippetfan on Feb 19, 2020 8:07:31 GMT -5
I’ve had a chance to sleep off my frustration. I did hear more than one Shelby person walking out of the gym say they should be removed from the schedule. But I’m sure neither AD would want that as the game brings a nice gate and is probably a game that should be played every year. It is extremely unfortunate tensions rose to the point they did. Could have been avoided had things been called a tad tighter from the beginning. Yes, I will agree officials were bad both ways. If you would have sat on the other side of the gym you would be deaf in both ears. Definitely a tournament atmosphere. Can probably guess free throw shooting is gonna get a lot of attention the rest of this week in practice.
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Post by dude on Feb 19, 2020 8:18:15 GMT -5
I’ve had a chance to sleep off my frustration. I did hear more than one Shelby person walking out of the gym say they should be removed from the schedule. But I’m sure neither AD would want that as the game brings a nice gate and is probably a game that should be played every year. It is extremely unfortunate tensions rose to the point they did. Could have been avoided had things been called a tad tighter from the beginning. Yes, I will agree officials were bad both ways. If you would have sat on the other side of the gym you would be deaf in both ears. Definitely a tournament atmosphere. Can probably guess free throw shooting is gonna get a lot of attention the rest of this week in practice. Those fans would be weak and should not be listened to. I think you should always look to play better teams than yourself specially if they are local. Maybe get a player to work on his anger management in case you have any more close game.
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Post by whippetfan on Feb 19, 2020 8:59:59 GMT -5
The kid in question is a really solid athlete. You have to love his intensity and passion for whatever sport he plays. His aggression last night and at Willard, if done in a football field, would be admired. But unfortunately it isn’t allowed on a basketball court. Hard to turn that intensity off at times, especially in a very heated contest like last night. Agreed on the playing up of competition. Make last night a learning lesson and make adjustments to ensure that doesn’t happen again. It’s what the good teams do really well and the average teams don’t do and continue to get the same results.
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Post by baldref on Feb 19, 2020 10:15:48 GMT -5
Was at Senior-Shelby Game last night. Observations -- Shelby lost the game due to poor free throw shooting and selfish play. Doubt if Shelby had more than 2-3 assists the entire game. Dont remember shelby taking any 3 point attempts -- maybe they did but dont remember any. Strictly one on one basketball drive the lane and hope you score. When point guard fouled out really hurt Shelby. Senior edged back into game by running some offensive sets and hitting crucial threes and free throws. Officiating? Bad equally both ways. Senior actually pulled the trick free throw shooter three times and got caught once. Both teams were fortunate officials didnt toss players after the minor altercation -- several tygers off the bench and the shelby player, plus mansfield students on the floor too. Pete Henry is a great venue for fans but a terrible venue for outside shooters, especially visiting teams --- like playing in the old fairgrounds coliseum -- no depth perception and orange, tight rims blend into the tyger painting and bleachers. Huge homecourt advantage in that respect. IMO neither team will go snyplace in tournament. Id bet on norwalk or lex advancing, just a hunch and my thoughts.
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Post by dude on Feb 19, 2020 10:21:42 GMT -5
The kid in question is a really solid athlete. You have to love his intensity and passion for whatever sport he plays. His aggression last night and at Willard, if done in a football field, would be admired. But unfortunately it isn’t allowed on a basketball court. Hard to turn that intensity off at times, especially in a very heated contest like last night. Agreed on the playing up of competition. Make last night a learning lesson and make adjustments to ensure that doesn’t happen again. It’s what the good teams do really well and the average teams don’t do and continue to get the same results. Being a solid athlete is irrelevant and intensity and passion are positive characteristics. What I have seen from this kid are not positive characteristics. Hits and tackles are a part of the game of football but not basketball so that is a unrelated statement. Both good and average teams make adjustments and learn. Bad teams or bad coaches do not.
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Post by sweathog on Feb 19, 2020 12:43:06 GMT -5
The kid in question is a really solid athlete. You have to love his intensity and passion for whatever sport he plays. His aggression last night and at Willard, if done in a football field, would be admired. But unfortunately it isn’t allowed on a basketball court. Hard to turn that intensity off at times, especially in a very heated contest like last night. Agreed on the playing up of competition. Make last night a learning lesson and make adjustments to ensure that doesn’t happen again. It’s what the good teams do really well and the average teams don’t do and continue to get the same results. I believe I know who you are referring to, that's all I will say. I will say this, to bad there are not more kids like him on team! Not like a lot on team that just play me ball!!!!! Also shows how weak the MOAC is this year!
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Post by malabar10 on Feb 19, 2020 12:55:41 GMT -5
A couple of observations on the game. 1. DeVito in foul trouble was a big factor in the game. 2. EVERY overtime starts with a jump ball!! Where those clowns got their rule is beyond me. 3. All teams in the OCC have their home game officials assigned by the league commissioner, so don't blame Senior for them. 4. There is a big difference in letting them play and not calling anything. Those 3 couldn't keep pace with the play. They were bad for both teams. Maybe there is a over 50 3 on 3 half court league they could work. 5. Players today think they NEVER foul, and then look astonished at their coach or in a couple of cases their coach in the stands for the reason. 6. Missed free throws always bite you in the arse!! 7. The so-called wrong shooter foul that was called would have been an intentional foul since he was standing out front away from the action, but this crew would have missed that also. You cannot just foul someone to stop the clock. 8. Did I mention the Zebras were bad?? 9. Shelby went away from what got them the lead of running plays to get the ball inside to watch me go one on one to the basket. Hmmm? Why?? 10. Would like to see those 2 meet in a district final with good officials. Lots of games to be played before that though.
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Post by whippetfan on Feb 19, 2020 13:47:24 GMT -5
I thought the same thing about not having DeVito in the game. It forced Pugh and Lantz to bring the ball up. My son and I both were baffled at the offensive approach too. And for the life of me, the zone defense was working. Why go back to a man-to-man? Gave up some offensive rebounds because we weren’t disciplined enough to put a body on someone. Saw a six point lead evaporate in the last 1:30 of the game. Not only players, but hopefully a learning experience for coaches too.
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Post by mcm1019 on Feb 19, 2020 14:10:40 GMT -5
So the 2nd OT started with the Tygers getting possession, no jump ball. Did the Shelby coaching staff at least question why this happened?
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Post by malabar10 on Feb 19, 2020 14:17:15 GMT -5
Yes, but they were arguing about who should actually have possession, and not the jump ball.
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Post by mcm1019 on Feb 19, 2020 14:23:51 GMT -5
Something there just doesn't make sense (no way 3 officials make that mistake).
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Post by dude on Feb 19, 2020 14:33:34 GMT -5
A couple of observations on the game. 1. DeVito in foul trouble was a big factor in the game. 2. EVERY overtime starts with a jump ball!! Where those clowns got their rule is beyond me. 3. All teams in the OCC have their home game officials assigned by the league commissioner, so don't blame Senior for them.4. There is a big difference in letting them play and not calling anything. Those 3 couldn't keep pace with the play. They were bad for both teams. Maybe there is a over 50 3 on 3 half court league they could work. 5. Players today think they NEVER foul, and then look astonished at their coach or in a couple of cases their coach in the stands for the reason. 6. Missed free throws always bite you in the arse!! 7. The so-called wrong shooter foul that was called would have been an intentional foul since he was standing out front away from the action, but this crew would have missed that also. You cannot just foul someone to stop the clock. 8. Did I mention the Zebras were bad?? 9. Shelby went away from what got them the lead of running plays to get the ball inside to watch me go one on one to the basket. Hmmm? Why?? 10. Would like to see those 2 meet in a district final with good officials. Lots of games to be played before that though. False. OCC athletic directors are able to schedule their home non league game officials. If they do not want to make that effort they can ask the commissioner to do that for them.
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Post by baldref on Feb 19, 2020 15:20:53 GMT -5
The thought crossed my mind more than once that I was back watching a game at the Friendly House with those Friendly House referees... LOL
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Post by whippetfan on Feb 19, 2020 15:56:55 GMT -5
The thought crossed my mind more than once that I was back watching a game at the Friendly House with those Friendly House referees... LOL [b Those are some painful memories from 5th and 6th grade
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Post by usramfan on Feb 21, 2020 9:47:31 GMT -5
As a scorekeeper, one of my biggest fears is that not catching mistakes like the ones described could possibly affect the outcome of a game. That is why I am so particular about some of the procedures that take place during the game in and around the scorer's table.
For what it's worth, permitting the wrong player to shoot free throws is one of the five correctable errors (Rule 2-10-1c). Furthermore, if Senior knowingly allowed the wrong player to shoot FTs, that player should have been assessed a technical foul for unsporting conduct (Rule 10-4-6f).
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