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Post by buckeyekid on Mar 8, 2021 10:58:27 GMT -5
Not having Myles in there really really hurt. I'll raise the question just for discussion sakes, sitting him for the entire 2nd quarter. I'm not the coach, or a coach for that matter---but in the Tourney where you are fighting for your teams life---do you handle it differently than say a regular season game? Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and we all know NOW how it worked out. I'm curious to hear peoples takes on this . And this is not being critical of Joe. I'm watching a zillion HS and College games where coaches face this situation.
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Post by dude on Mar 8, 2021 11:06:21 GMT -5
Not having Myles in there really really hurt. I'll raise the question just for discussion sakes, sitting him for the entire 2nd quarter. I'm not the coach, or a coach for that matter---but in the Tourney where you are fighting for your teams life---do you handle it differently than say a regular season game? Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and we all know NOW how it worked out. I'm curious to hear peoples takes on this . And this is not being critical of Joe. I'm watching a zillion HS and College games where coaches face this situation. With the Flashes up 10 at halftime and in control sitting a kid with 2 fouls looks to be the normal safe action to take. Had they struggled or been down your coach may have done different. WR had similar decision to make when two of their starters picked up 2 first half fouls.
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Post by sweathog on Mar 8, 2021 11:39:05 GMT -5
To all you people that are complaining about the officials, Put your name in and you become one. Hope you can do better. Can you face the fact that you got beat by a better team. Willard stopped WR number 2 scorer Strata or something like that, number 12, I believe he only had 2 points. but other players stepped up for WR. The kid that lit the floor up with 3's against CC, WR took him out of the game. 2 good teams and the better team won this night, but any time Willard gets beat is a good night.
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Post by fbfan on Mar 8, 2021 11:56:44 GMT -5
I didn't say Willard was a victim of poor officiating ... I said the were a victim of inconsistent officiating. After the temper tantrum "show" that Sheldon put on going into the locker room at half time ... the officials completely changed the WAY the called the game. The proof was the fact that WR was in the double bonus at the 2 min mark in the third period while they only had committed just 3 fouls against Willard in the same time frame. The same number of fouls at the end of the game means very little to me. Officials see the same score board as the fans do ... and they react to it ... as the fans do. Ask any coach about the officiating and they will give you the same response in most cases ... Good or bad ... be consistent!! The same foul in the 1st quarter should be the same foul in the 4th. That way players and coaches can adjust the style of play ... accordingly. Good officials will assess each other and what they may have missed at halftime. Most will look to do a better job in the second half. It's very possible and likely some things get missed or changed before and after halftime. Stats by Half. 1st Half Western Reserve FG 11-28 (39%) 3Pt 2-13 (15%) FT 6-6 (100%) Rebs 11 Turnovers 5 Fouls 7 Willard FG 14-26 (54%) 3Pt 5-10 (50%) FT 7-10 (70%) Rebs 15 Turnovers 5 Fouls 6 2nd Half Western Reserve FG 11-30 (36%) 3Pt 3-15 (20%) FT 10- 11 (90%)Rebs 20 Turnovers 2 Fouls 11Willard FG 8-27 (29%) 3Pt 1-10 (10%) FT 7- 13 (53%)Rebs 16 Turnovers 3 Fouls 11Or it could prove that Willard came out too aggressive in the second half and the officials tightened things up to prevent them from losing control of the game. Any coach will tell you that it happens, and that you have to adjust to it. It could mean that the officials called the fouls when they were committed. If at the 2 min. mark of the third quarter, Willard had 6 fouls called on them, that means 5 more were called the rest of the way. At this same point, if WR had 3, that means 8 more were called the remainder of the game on WR (that probably didn't help WR catch up, did it). It does NOT mean that the officials were looking at the scoreboard and "reacting to it" by calling make up calls to even things out. That would be an outrageous accusation. If Willard had made a few more of their foul shots and won, I think their fans would be saying it was a good win against a good team. With no mention of the officiating. The stats tell the tale. I'll leave it at that.
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Post by ronburgandy on Mar 8, 2021 12:16:46 GMT -5
To all you people that are complaining about the officials, Put your name in and you become one. Hope you can do better. Can you face the fact that you got beat by a better team. Willard stopped WR number 2 scorer Strata or something like that, number 12, I believe he only had 2 points. but other players stepped up for WR. The kid that lit the floor up with 3's against CC, WR took him out of the game. 2 good teams and the better team won this night, but any time Willard gets beat is a good night. I officiated for 12 years so maybe you’re the one that needs to become one? as I’ve stated several times I just felt like there was a huge change between how the two halves were called. I see all the stats everyone is posting and that’s great but it still felt different while watching and even texted someone during it. We can all just agree to disagree, water under the bridge now.
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Post by dude on Mar 8, 2021 12:24:01 GMT -5
To all you people that are complaining about the officials, Put your name in and you become one. Hope you can do better. Can you face the fact that you got beat by a better team. Willard stopped WR number 2 scorer Strata or something like that, number 12, I believe he only had 2 points. but other players stepped up for WR. The kid that lit the floor up with 3's against CC, WR took him out of the game. 2 good teams and the better team won this night, but any time Willard gets beat is a good night. I officiated for 12 years so maybe you’re the one that needs to become one? as I’ve stated several times I just felt like there was a huge change between how the two halves were called. I see all the stats everyone is posting and that’s great but it still felt different while watching and even texted someone during it. We can all just agree to disagree, water under the bridge now. I enjoyed watching the game and thought it was a good game between two good teams and I had no care for who won or lost. About those 12 years. Do you remember responses you were getting when you blew your whistle and half the people in the gym were screaming to tell you what a great job you were doing?
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Post by ronburgandy on Mar 8, 2021 12:27:13 GMT -5
I actually do remember a lot of things said to me over the years. Could tell a lot of stories, but I also had a lot of great conversations with people in the stands in between quarters or before games during warm ups. I thoroughly enjoyed my years officiating. I still think the funniest thing I got yelled at me was “bad call pretty boy”. Still not sure if that was meant as a compliment or not?
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Post by dude on Mar 8, 2021 12:31:07 GMT -5
I actually do remember a lot of things said to me over the years. Could tell a lot of stories, but I also had a lot of great conversations with people in the stands in between quarters or before games during warm ups. I thoroughly enjoyed my years officiating. I still think the funniest thing I got yelled at me was “bad call pretty boy”. Still not sure if that was meant as a compliment or not? Anyone who has worn the stripes for a period of time has been yelled at. I have never heard a fan say "that was a perfectly called game".
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 8, 2021 12:40:37 GMT -5
To all you people that are complaining about the officials, Put your name in and you become one. Hope you can do better. Can you face the fact that you got beat by a better team. Willard stopped WR number 2 scorer Strata or something like that, number 12, I believe he only had 2 points. but other players stepped up for WR. The kid that lit the floor up with 3's against CC, WR took him out of the game. 2 good teams and the better team won this night, but any time Willard gets beat is a good night. I officiated for 12 years so maybe you’re the one that needs to become one? as I’ve stated several times I just felt like there was a huge change between how the two halves were called. I see all the stats everyone is posting and that’s great but it still felt different while watching and even texted someone during it. We can all just agree to disagree, water under the bridge now. And you undoubtedly agree, that if there was a subconscious or discussed change in how the game was officiated in the 2nd half, it had no bearing on the out come. As the free throws and shot selection discussed indicate.
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Post by crimson5 on Mar 8, 2021 13:02:15 GMT -5
I officiated for 12 years so maybe you’re the one that needs to become one? as I’ve stated several times I just felt like there was a huge change between how the two halves were called. I see all the stats everyone is posting and that’s great but it still felt different while watching and even texted someone during it. We can all just agree to disagree, water under the bridge now. And you undoubtedly agree, that if there was a subconscious or discussed change in how the game was officiated in the 2nd half, it had no bearing on the out come. As the free throws and shot selection discussed indicate. Everything has a bearing on the outcome.....missed free throws, bad shot selection, turnovers, missed layups, and the Officials. Good teams make less mistakes so the officiating has little bearing on the outcome. The officiating did not lose this game for Willard.
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Post by buckeyekid on Mar 8, 2021 13:26:33 GMT -5
Good point C5. It was a number of things. Collectively it was enough to decide the game. Have to give WR credit. They didn't play overly well in the first half at all, but they kept battling and made a shot and we didn't at the end. Everything changes if one more shot drops for Willard. Somebody had to lose this game---and we did this time.
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Post by ronburgandy on Mar 8, 2021 14:06:31 GMT -5
I officiated for 12 years so maybe you’re the one that needs to become one? as I’ve stated several times I just felt like there was a huge change between how the two halves were called. I see all the stats everyone is posting and that’s great but it still felt different while watching and even texted someone during it. We can all just agree to disagree, water under the bridge now. And you undoubtedly agree, that if there was a subconscious or discussed change in how the game was officiated in the 2nd half, it had no bearing on the out come. As the free throws and shot selection discussed indicate. No bearing at all? No, officiating can always have a bearing on an outcome of a game, whether good or bad.
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Post by mcm1019 on Mar 8, 2021 14:08:10 GMT -5
I actually do remember a lot of things said to me over the years. Could tell a lot of stories, but I also had a lot of great conversations with people in the stands in between quarters or before games during warm ups. I thoroughly enjoyed my years officiating. I still think the funniest thing I got yelled at me was “bad call pretty boy”. Still not sure if that was meant as a compliment or not? Sorry about that Ron, didn't think you would hear me
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Post by ronburgandy on Mar 8, 2021 14:28:58 GMT -5
I actually do remember a lot of things said to me over the years. Could tell a lot of stories, but I also had a lot of great conversations with people in the stands in between quarters or before games during warm ups. I thoroughly enjoyed my years officiating. I still think the funniest thing I got yelled at me was “bad call pretty boy”. Still not sure if that was meant as a compliment or not? Sorry about that Ron, didn't think you would hear me I knew where you sat so I always paid attention to that area of the gym... Ha
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Post by fanofthegame on Mar 8, 2021 17:23:33 GMT -5
Let’s not anoint all officials as Saints just because they donn stripes and a whistle. Just like we can be critical of a coach or a player they lace ‘em up and put themselves out there too. Some do it for the right reasons. Some not so much. They can change a game, especially at tourney time, and make a big difference. They can come back next year, but a senior can’t.
I think they are getting worse because of the changes in how they’re paid. A crew used to get handed cash. After the game they went to a local bar and had a beer and a meal. Now they get paid electronically and taxes are withheld. It’s not worth it for what they get paid and the flack they take. A lot of the experienced guys left all at once leaving very few to mentor the young guys.
It also sounds bad whenever someone on here complains about officiating because we never hear someone say when we see a well officiated game. We just say nothing. Like the service industry. You hear way more complaints than compliments.
If all you do on here is complain about refs when your team loses then you have no credibility. If you point out specific complaints when appropriate then that’s legit (like significantly tightening or loosening foul calls from one half to the next).
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Post by bsports on Mar 8, 2021 20:53:14 GMT -5
Fan, good point about the Seniors - that's it for them. Case in point was the Willard girl's game. I didn't agree with the call at the end of the game and it was pivotal. I always feel badly for the kids in that situation. I didn't watch the first half of the boy's game so had nothing to compare it to. It was entertaining, exciting and met my expectations for a great high school basketball game. I saw questionable calls both ways and thought both deserved to move on. The big kid for Western did seem to want it more than anyone else out there and was the difference maker.
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Post by perwalk on Mar 8, 2021 21:09:40 GMT -5
Outside observer perspective I didn’t think it was a very well officiated game throughout both ways. Very inconsistent and some of the things they let go were bad. However if Willard has better possessions in the 2nd half (lots of bad shots) they win. Also I believe Willard was the better team and WR had the best player... JMO
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