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Post by baldref on Mar 6, 2021 18:19:17 GMT -5
That's a sad indictment for a district final when supposedly get better officials
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Post by ronburgandy on Mar 6, 2021 18:28:57 GMT -5
I thought the first half was actually fine, I had no issue but then second half was called completely different. Why not just keep officiating the same way? To me it honestly felt like the officials tried to call it tighter second half for some reason.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 6, 2021 18:43:53 GMT -5
I saw WAY too many bad shots by Willard to blame the officials.
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Post by clb6110 on Mar 6, 2021 18:44:46 GMT -5
^^ I agree with that.Hard to criticize too much tho. Thankless job.
My post was intended for RB but you slipped in front of me WF. You are also correct.
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Post by baldref on Mar 6, 2021 18:46:34 GMT -5
One of the good officials main rule is what is a foul in first minute is a foul in last.minute. inconsistency is the bane of officiating.
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Post by ronburgandy on Mar 6, 2021 18:58:04 GMT -5
I agree on the bad shot selection with everyone, as I mentioned as well in an earlier post. Very similar to Ohio State’s shot selection late in today’s game with Illinois. I wanted to see Willard attack more, it seemed like we were getting to the rim pretty easily most of the time.
My gripe though is the inconsistency on foul calls between the first and second half. It just had such a different feel in my opinion.
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Post by buckeyekid on Mar 6, 2021 19:02:15 GMT -5
OSU game final 2-3 minutes-----same opinion. They quit going to the basket and relied on long jumpers. Up 4 to down 3 in 3 possessions.
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Post by larrylegend on Mar 6, 2021 19:35:45 GMT -5
Yeah definitely can’t blame the refs on this one. Bad shots and missed free throws lost it.
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Post by ScarletFever on Mar 6, 2021 19:36:35 GMT -5
I agree on the bad shot selection with everyone, as I mentioned as well in an earlier post. Very similar to Ohio State’s shot selection late in today’s game with Illinois. I wanted to see Willard attack more, it seemed like we were getting to the rim pretty easily most of the time. My gripe though is the inconsistency on foul calls between the first and second half. It just had such a different feel in my opinion. I’ll repeat, Sheldon won this one at HT by eating the officials lunch and the 3q played out even more one sided than I feared. Lord one WR kid completely gave Adelman a head butt at center court it was X Files bizarre. Turned a possible 15+ pt lead into 5-8, our free throw shooting did the rest.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 6, 2021 19:39:13 GMT -5
Maybe in both cases players got tired? I takes A LOT more energy to drive to the basket than chuck up 3-pointers.
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Post by illuminator on Mar 6, 2021 20:24:28 GMT -5
Agreed WF WR was much better Better today maybe. If we played like we did Thursday...different outcome IMO.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Mar 6, 2021 20:28:30 GMT -5
It is VERY hard to play your A+ game 2 games in a row.
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Post by dude on Mar 6, 2021 21:29:58 GMT -5
I could be, I literally know nothing else about them so I’m just going by the teams on their schedule and the scores. Johnstown plays a decently challenging schedule and their margin of victory is a sign of their ability. Playing Granville, Worthington Christian, Heath, Bishop Hartley and DeSales are all schools that can make you battle tested.
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Post by illuminator on Mar 6, 2021 21:48:47 GMT -5
It is VERY hard to play your A+ game 2 games in a row. Agree 100%. Not to mention, with all the chatter of doubt before the season even started...these guys played in a game many thought they wouldn't. All the "who's gonna step up?" "How're they going to make up 40 pts"?...ect. Well, the whole team stepped up! Every single one of them! And did what several said they couldn't. SOLE SBC CHAMPS! Again...thank you Flashes! You played hard ALL SEASON LONG!!
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bat21
All Conference
Posts: 149
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Post by bat21 on Mar 6, 2021 22:14:41 GMT -5
The officials this second half... yikes Sheldon was whining and bitching at the officials all the way to the locker room at the half. I thought he was going to get T’d up. I guess the refs got it little scared of the tempure tantrum ... because they completely changed the flow of the game starting the 3rd. It’s the Sheldon way tho ... the banty rooster got his way today.
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Post by illuminator on Mar 6, 2021 22:25:10 GMT -5
The officials this second half... yikes Sheldon was whining and bitching at the officials all the way to the locker room at the half. I thought he was going to get T’d up. I guess the refs got it little scared of the tempure tantrum ... because they completely changed the flow of the game starting the 3rd. It’s the Sheldon way tho ... the banty rooster got his way today. I'm glad I wasn't the only one seeing it. Definitely different reffing after the half. They didn't lose Willard the game. But they sure made it harder on Willard to try and get the win.
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marchmadness
All Conference
2021 Playoff Pick'em Champion
Posts: 324
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Post by marchmadness on Mar 6, 2021 22:59:26 GMT -5
All this talk about officiating yet no one has mentioned that Muenz traveled on the game winning shot. Looked clear to me at least. Willard was hurt in this game when Pinkston wasn't out there to guard due to foul trouble. And Willards shot selection was terrible. Probably a curse from making an abnormal amount of outside/tough shots vs CC. Congratulations to both teams on great seasons. Two very solid programs.
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bat21
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Posts: 149
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Post by bat21 on Mar 7, 2021 0:14:03 GMT -5
Sheldon was whining and bitching at the officials all the way to the locker room at the half. I thought he was going to get T’d up. I guess the refs got it little scared of the tempure tantrum ... because they completely changed the flow of the game starting the 3rd. It’s the Sheldon way tho ... the banty rooster got his way today. I'm glad I wasn't the only one seeing it. Definitely different reffing after the half. They didn't lose Willard the game. But they sure made it harder on Willard to try and get the win. It’s kind of a family tradition ... its just harder to pull off when your down 20+ at half!!
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Post by illuminator on Mar 7, 2021 0:31:23 GMT -5
I'm glad I wasn't the only one seeing it. Definitely different reffing after the half. They didn't lose Willard the game. But they sure made it harder on Willard to try and get the win. It’s kind of a family tradition ... its just harder to pull off when your down 20+ at half!! At the very least, It's sweet that Willard rained on the "Sheldon vs Sheldon" parade.
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Post by buckeyekid on Mar 7, 2021 6:06:50 GMT -5
He did travel as March Madness pointed out. I just watched it on replay. It happened so fast the ref missed it. He picked up his dribble. Set his feet, then he hopped to turn around and then he jumped again.on the shot. However, previously I think Paxton got away with a travel at the foul line and he buried a jumper after he slid, the refs missed that one too, so it’s a wash.br]I still maintain the game was lost mid 3rd quarter. WR had shot only 2-22 at that point from 3. Willard didn’t build on its halftime lead as it could have with all thiose empty possessions in a row. Then in the 4th, the WR shots started dropping once the game was closer.
Like Joe said in the Reflector interview, not having Myles on the floor hurt us a lot. I think he played about 18 of 32 minutes. That’s not enough to beat a good team like WR.
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Post by dude on Mar 7, 2021 7:09:39 GMT -5
STATS Western Reserve FG Made-Att 22-58 (38%) 3Pt FG Made-Att 5-28 (18%) FT Made-Att 16-17 (94%) Rebs (Off/Def) 31 (10/21) Assists 12 Steals 6 Blocks 1 Turnovers 7 Personal Fouls 18
Willard FG Made-Att 22-53 (42%) 3Pt FG Made-Att 6-20 (30%) FT Made-Att 14-23 (61%) Rebs (Off/Def) 31 (11/20) Assists 14 Steals 4 Blocks 2 Turnovers 8 Personal Fouls 17
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Post by ronburgandy on Mar 7, 2021 7:26:41 GMT -5
STATS Western Reserve FG Made-Att 22-58 (38%) 3Pt FG Made-Att 5-28 (18%) FT Made-Att 16-17 (94%) Rebs (Off/Def) 31 (10/21) Assists 12 Steals 6 Blocks 1 Turnovers 7 Personal Fouls 18 Willard FG Made-Att 22-53 (42%) 3Pt FG Made-Att 6-20 (30%) FT Made-Att 14-23 (61%) Rebs (Off/Def) 31 (11/20) Assists 14 Steals 4 Blocks 2 Turnovers 8 Personal Fouls 17 Biggest one that sticks out... free throws.
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Post by dude on Mar 7, 2021 7:35:26 GMT -5
Biggest one that sticks out... free throws. That's what I thought. Willard had 6 more attempts than WR, but came away with less points from the line.
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Post by ronburgandy on Mar 7, 2021 7:51:56 GMT -5
At the same time though, for a high school team to make 16 out of 17 is pretty rare. College and pros don’t even shoot that well. I’m curious what WR’s season average was from the line.
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Post by sportsvideo on Mar 7, 2021 8:04:59 GMT -5
I can respect a Willard team that lays the wood against an undefeated team in a tournament game. I can't respect a Willard team that seemed to have ducked Shelby because it wasn't convenient for them. Dude, you win one district title in 20 years and you want to poke at a program that has more district titles than you do birthdays! take a big piece of humble pie would yuh?
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Post by ronburgandy on Mar 7, 2021 8:06:28 GMT -5
At the same time though, for a high school team to make 16 out of 17 is pretty rare. College and pros don’t even shoot that well. I’m curious what WR’s season average was from the line. They were 10-12 against Margaretta. Was that their previous game? Their season average will tell me more. Are they just locked in from the charity stripe right now?
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Post by dude on Mar 7, 2021 8:07:56 GMT -5
They were 10-12 against Margaretta. Was that their previous game? Their season average will tell me more. Are they just locked in from the charity stripe right now? Only other time I saw them play. May have been game 1
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Post by fbfan on Mar 7, 2021 12:17:44 GMT -5
STATS Western Reserve FG Made-Att 22-58 (38%) 3Pt FG Made-Att 5-28 (18%) FT Made-Att 16-17 (94%) Rebs (Off/Def) 31 (10/21) Assists 12 Steals 6 Blocks 1 Turnovers 7 Personal Fouls 18Willard FG Made-Att 22-53 (42%) 3Pt FG Made-Att 6-20 (30%) FT Made-Att 14-23 (61%) Rebs (Off/Def) 31 (11/20) Assists 14 Steals 4 Blocks 2 Turnovers 8 Personal Fouls 17When reading the comments about the officiating on here, I was surprised to see the actual foul stats. Willard actually had less calls on them and was awarded 6 more shots than WR for the game. Since there are apparently no WR posters on this forum, I'll ask a question for them. If Willard was the victim of poor officiating in the second half when they lost their lead, wasn't WR the victim of poor officiating in the first half when Willard was building their lead, since the calls were essentially even?
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bat21
All Conference
Posts: 149
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Post by bat21 on Mar 8, 2021 9:59:54 GMT -5
STATS Western Reserve FG Made-Att 22-58 (38%) 3Pt FG Made-Att 5-28 (18%) FT Made-Att 16-17 (94%) Rebs (Off/Def) 31 (10/21) Assists 12 Steals 6 Blocks 1 Turnovers 7 Personal Fouls 18Willard FG Made-Att 22-53 (42%) 3Pt FG Made-Att 6-20 (30%) FT Made-Att 14-23 (61%) Rebs (Off/Def) 31 (11/20) Assists 14 Steals 4 Blocks 2 Turnovers 8 Personal Fouls 17When reading the comments about the officiating on here, I was surprised to see the actual foul stats. Willard actually had less calls on them and was awarded 6 more shots than WR for the game. Since there are apparently no WR posters on this forum, I'll ask a question for them. If Willard was the victim of poor officiating in the second half when they lost their lead, wasn't WR the victim of poor officiating in the first half when Willard was building their lead, since the calls were essentially even? I didn't say Willard was a victim of poor officiating ... I said the were a victim of inconsistent officiating. After the temper tantrum "show" that Sheldon put on going into the locker room at half time ... the officials completely changed the WAY the called the game. The proof was the fact that WR was in the double bonus at the 2 min mark in the third period while they only had committed just 3 fouls against Willard in the same time frame. The same number of fouls at the end of the game means very little to me. Officials see the same score board as the fans do ... and they react to it ... as the fans do. Ask any coach about the officiating and they will give you the same response in most cases ... Good or bad ... be consistent!! The same foul in the 1st quarter should be the same foul in the 4th. That way players and coaches can adjust the style of play ... accordingly.
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Post by dude on Mar 8, 2021 10:28:51 GMT -5
When reading the comments about the officiating on here, I was surprised to see the actual foul stats. Willard actually had less calls on them and was awarded 6 more shots than WR for the game. Since there are apparently no WR posters on this forum, I'll ask a question for them. If Willard was the victim of poor officiating in the second half when they lost their lead, wasn't WR the victim of poor officiating in the first half when Willard was building their lead, since the calls were essentially even? I didn't say Willard was a victim of poor officiating ... I said the were a victim of inconsistent officiating. After the temper tantrum "show" that Sheldon put on going into the locker room at half time ... the officials completely changed the WAY the called the game. The proof was the fact that WR was in the double bonus at the 2 min mark in the third period while they only had committed just 3 fouls against Willard in the same time frame. The same number of fouls at the end of the game means very little to me. Officials see the same score board as the fans do ... and they react to it ... as the fans do. Ask any coach about the officiating and they will give you the same response in most cases ... Good or bad ... be consistent!! The same foul in the 1st quarter should be the same foul in the 4th. That way players and coaches can adjust the style of play ... accordingly. Good officials will assess each other and what they may have missed at halftime. Most will look to do a better job in the second half. It's very possible and likely some things get missed or changed before and after halftime. Stats by Half. 1st Half Western Reserve FG 11-28 (39%) 3Pt 2-13 (15%) FT 6-6 (100%) Rebs 11 Turnovers 5 Fouls 7 Willard FG 14-26 (54%) 3Pt 5-10 (50%) FT 7-10 (70%) Rebs 15 Turnovers 5 Fouls 6 2nd Half Western Reserve FG 11-30 (36%) 3Pt 3-15 (20%) FT 10-11 (90%) Rebs 20 Turnovers 2 Fouls 11 Willard FG 8-27 (29%) 3Pt 1-10 (10%) FT 7-13 (53%) Rebs 16 Turnovers 3 Fouls 11
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