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Post by minutiea on Nov 15, 2024 23:52:14 GMT -5
Fantastic game. Both teams’ stars carried their respective teams. It seemed like Ontario spent the first half trying to get everyone involved like it was Upwards basketball when they have a cheat code on their team. Devito carried Shelby in the first half. The passing game opened up in the third quarter resulting in the big lead. Shelby’s coaching staff is phenomenal. I wish they had been there when my boys played, BUT… First and ten, heels on the goal line you have to go under center. About 1:40 on the clock. Ontario no time outs. If you fall forward for 2-3 yards you can take a knee the next two plays then punt. Even if you take a safety on the punt Ontario is down 6 with maybe :30 on the clock. I know. Easy for me. No pressure when you have no real responsibility. Hindsight is 20/20. The safety was the biggest play of the game. Ontario had an extra d-lineman in the game and 2 LBs in the middle. They had The Shelby O-line outnumbered. Ontario's defense has made several stands like that this year, but none bigger. They have some stout linemen .Since the season started they still lift 4 days a week at 6:00 AM |
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Post by BellevueBuckeye on Nov 15, 2024 23:59:09 GMT -5
First and ten, heels on the goal line you have to go under center. About 1:40 on the clock. Ontario no time outs. If you fall forward for 2-3 yards you can take a knee the next two plays then punt. It was 1:58. Which still would not have required a punt. Anywhere else on the field and you're just taking 3 knees to run that out as long as you use the full :40 each time. If they get the 2-3 yards you're talking about it would have been game over, with Ontario never seeing the ball again at all. |
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Post by minutiea on Nov 15, 2024 23:59:35 GMT -5
This was Ontario's year, with Miller being a Senior. Next year is Devito's Senior year and Shelby has a young team this year.
Has anyone heard how the Shelby coach is?
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Post by minutiea on Nov 16, 2024 0:12:10 GMT -5
Ontario 633 yds to Shelby’s 441. Shelby seemed to get pretty conservative in the 4th qt. I thought they got a little tired chasing Miller for four quarters |
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csk
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Post by csk on Nov 16, 2024 8:56:00 GMT -5
Shelby coaching staff should be ashamed. Maybe they should have spent some practice time building a competent run game instead working on gadget plays for 2 hours lol…how can you not conserve a 3 TD fourth quarter lead, in high school? Ahh well, they have 10 months to figure it out now haha
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Post by csk on Nov 16, 2024 8:59:47 GMT -5
With a 3 touchdown lead in the 4th, they should have been. Obviously. Just didn’t have a competent run game to seal it. Either bold enough to keep trying to put up 70 by passing or too weak up front to run the ball for 1 quarter Ontario 633 yds to Shelby’s 441. Shelby seemed to get pretty conservative in the 4th qt. |
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Post by GHS 1999 on Nov 16, 2024 9:19:46 GMT -5
Shelby coaching staff should be ashamed. Maybe they should have spent some practice time building a competent run game instead working on gadget plays for 2 hours lol…how can you not conserve a 3 TD fourth quarter lead, in high school? Ahh well, they have 10 months to figure it out now haha I was thinking much the same. Shelby’s run game really revolved around DeVito. I wasn’t impressed with the razzle dazzle stuff that Shelby kept pulling. In fact, I felt the play where they lined up in single file, then lined up and gadget played a run that went for a touchdown showed up Ontario a little bit. It bit them in the butt at the end. |
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Post by fanofthegame on Nov 16, 2024 9:23:52 GMT -5
Shelby coaching staff should be ashamed. Maybe they should have spent some practice time building a competent run game instead working on gadget plays for 2 hours lol…how can you not conserve a 3 TD fourth quarter lead, in high school? Ahh well, they have 10 months to figure it out now haha Ashamed of themselves for going 12-1 barely losing to a team with a D1 athlete that they split wins with? Ashamed for winning every game by two scores or more? They beat a D3 regional semifinalist (Lex). If that’s to be ashamed of I’ll take ashamed every year. |
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Post by baldref on Nov 16, 2024 9:57:11 GMT -5
Shelbys fundamental flaws and thinking are what beat them. Despite all the razzle-dazzle etc. Foooball 101 eluded them. All year, Shelby struggled with short yardage situations. Last night when the situation begged for successive qb sneaks to run out the clock and win the game, Ontario loaded the line and Shelby ran their standard direct snap to the qb four yards off the line of scrimmage. No chance for the qb and the resultant safety was the eventual game winner. Contrast that to Ontario -- 2nd half, down 22 points, 4th down and three at their own 40. So Shelby, never thinking that an athletic qb could run the edge, loaded the box with 11 guys within a yard of the scrimmage line and never protected the edge. Result -- Miller waltzed around left end for 62 yards untouched for a td and the comeback was on. Simple smart basic football resulted in a W for Ontario and an L for Shelby,
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Post by minutiea on Nov 16, 2024 14:03:44 GMT -5
Shelby coaching staff should be ashamed. Maybe they should have spent some practice time building a competent run game instead working on gadget plays for 2 hours lol…how can you not conserve a 3 TD fourth quarter lead, in high school? Ahh well, they have 10 months to figure it out now haha In the 4 games against Shelby over the past 3 years Ontario ran one gadget play. Tonight down 22 in the 4th quarter. Shelby ran 8 gadget plays in those 4 games. I've always thought, the better team doesn't need gadget plays. Shelby has a great QB and several good WRs. I can understand doing nothing but having Devito pass and run/scramble. There have been a few cases where that has been very successful. Just as a Wing-T run it 90% of the time on occasion can be very successful. But the vast majority of successful teams have a good run game and a good passing game Last year Ontario passed it more than they ran it. This year they run it more than they pass it. In high school you adapt to the players on the roster |
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Post by GHS 1999 on Nov 16, 2024 14:27:17 GMT -5
One thing that really impressed me about Miller is that he usually only ran as a last resort. He seemed to be always looking to pass it first, then if nothing was open he took off. But Ontario was able to run the ball without Miller. Shelby wow not as able to run it without DeVito.
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csk
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Post by csk on Nov 16, 2024 14:50:52 GMT -5
3 TD fourth quarter lead….and lost, bud. Get a run game to burn clock when ya need it. Only so many gidget gadget plays to run lol Shelby coaching staff should be ashamed. Maybe they should have spent some practice time building a competent run game instead working on gadget plays for 2 hours lol…how can you not conserve a 3 TD fourth quarter lead, in high school? Ahh well, they have 10 months to figure it out now haha Ashamed of themselves for going 12-1 barely losing to a team with a D1 athlete that they split wins with? Ashamed for winning every game by two scores or more? They beat a D3 regional semifinalist (Lex). If that’s to be ashamed of I’ll take ashamed every year. |
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csk
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Post by csk on Nov 16, 2024 14:52:39 GMT -5
Finally, a ball-knower on this forum! Shelbys fundamental flaws and thinking are what beat them. Despite all the razzle-dazzle etc. Foooball 101 eluded them. All year, Shelby struggled with short yardage situations. Last night when the situation begged for successive qb sneaks to run out the clock and win the game, Ontario loaded the line and Shelby ran their standard direct snap to the qb four yards off the line of scrimmage. No chance for the qb and the resultant safety was the eventual game winner. Contrast that to Ontario -- 2nd half, down 22 points, 4th down and three at their own 40. So Shelby, never thinking that an athletic qb could run the edge, loaded the box with 11 guys within a yard of the scrimmage line and never protected the edge. Result -- Miller waltzed around left end for 62 yards untouched for a td and the comeback was on. Simple smart basic football resulted in a W for Ontario and an L for Shelby, |
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Post by fanofthegame on Nov 16, 2024 15:50:38 GMT -5
Look back at my earlier posts. They don’t have that guy who will lower his shoulder and run through someone. I even sited the last guy they had who would. You play with the kids walking the hallways. The running back they have had some good games, but he wasn’t consistent and didn’t run through anyone.
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Post by minutiea on Nov 16, 2024 17:03:26 GMT -5
Look back at my earlier posts. They don’t have that guy who will lower his shoulder and run through someone. I even sited the last guy they had who would. You play with the kids walking the hallways. The running back they have had some good games, but he wasn’t consistent and didn’t run through anyone. I would bet one of their many WRs could be that guy. |
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Post by fanofthegame on Nov 16, 2024 17:55:24 GMT -5
So you’re saying a coaching staff that manages to go 54-17 in six years hasn’t thought of something some yahoos on an internet message board who have no first hand knowledge of available personnel have thought of. That’s a reasonable conclusion 😳.
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Post by jvchesster on Nov 16, 2024 19:22:14 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more. One of the best hs games I've seen. When is next time in this area that two D1 qbs will face off and have great games? This game was better than the last one and the last one was amazing. What a game
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Post by bricklayer on Nov 16, 2024 20:20:50 GMT -5
Shelby coaching staff should be ashamed. Maybe they should have spent some practice time building a competent run game instead working on gadget plays for 2 hours lol…how can you not conserve a 3 TD fourth quarter lead, in high school? Ahh well, they have 10 months to figure it out now haha Ashamed of themselves for going 12-1 barely losing to a team with a D1 athlete that they split wins with? Ashamed for winning every game by two scores or more? They beat a D3 regional semifinalist (Lex). If that’s to be ashamed of I’ll take ashamed every year. the same Lexington team that beat Maumee & Rocky River to be a regional semifinalist & lost to 4-7 Clear Fork squad? |
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Post by fanofthegame on Nov 16, 2024 20:53:34 GMT -5
Ashamed of themselves for going 12-1 barely losing to a team with a D1 athlete that they split wins with? Ashamed for winning every game by two scores or more? They beat a D3 regional semifinalist (Lex). If that’s to be ashamed of I’ll take ashamed every year. the same Lexington team that beat Maumee & Rocky River to be a regional semifinalist & lost to 4-7 Clear Fork squad? Yep, that division three regional semifinalist. One of the last 16 teams in their division still playing this weekend. |
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Post by minutiea on Nov 16, 2024 21:20:07 GMT -5
So you’re saying a coaching staff that manages to go 54-17 in six years hasn’t thought of something some yahoos on an internet message board who have no first hand knowledge of available personnel have thought of. That’s a reasonable conclusion 😳. No, i'm saying the preference of this coach is to have 5+ wideouts instead of a RB. After watching several of Shelby's games the past 2 years, I've seen one that would make a heck of RB. RBs are allowed to catch passes and can be split out wide. He made a great run out of the backfield against Ontario. Imagine if he did that 10 times a game. Doing that they might have had an even better record |
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Post by wetsu on Nov 16, 2024 21:58:12 GMT -5
So you’re saying a coaching staff that manages to go 54-17 in six years hasn’t thought of something some yahoos on an internet message board who have no first hand knowledge of available personnel have thought of. That’s a reasonable conclusion 😳. No, i'm saying the preference of this coach is to have 5+ wideouts instead of a RB. After watching several of Shelby's games the past 2 years, I've seen one that would make a heck of RB. RBs are allowed to catch passes and can be split out wide. He made a great run out of the backfield against Ontario. Imagine if he did that 10 times a game. Doing that they might have had an even better record If you pay attention to offensive trends you see a lot of this. Nowadays if a kid is athletic enough to be a decent running back (or overall athlete) there's little reason not to split him wide or even at TE. Spread teams with a TE can be a nightmare to defend. I've seen RB's in the slot in Trips and/or Empty who are serious mismatches for the defense. I'm in no way taking issue with fanofthegames's point. I'm one of those yahoos with no knowledge of their available personnel, but if Shelby is as good as they appear on the snippets I've seen online it makes me wonder WHY they don't have a kid like that. If it's purely offensive philosophy, fine, and they are now living with the consequences. I love a lot of the spread philosophies in present day HS football but one thing that bothers me are teams that flat-out refuse to go under center. Sorry, but certain situations in football have not changed. Weather, short yardage, backed-up offense, etc. Typically, the farther you advance in the play-offs the more likely you are to face these situations. I'm old enough to remember the great Shelby NOL teams when that league was loaded, they helped forge my love of football and I want Shelby to succeed. I credit the Whippet staff for what they have accomplished to date and likely in the future, they are no doubt talented coaches. But when I see DV-DVII schools who can utilize a good kid in different ways I wonder why a D-IV cannot? Again, perhaps they simply lack that type of kid. |
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Post by fanofthegame on Nov 16, 2024 22:04:39 GMT -5
Well I see around eight games a year. The most aggressive runner is the Bowman kid. He’s a sophomore who maybe weighs 145 pounds if he’s holding a bag of quarters. Running him 15-20 times a game out of the backfield would be a good way to guarantee he doesn’t finish the season. Give him another year to finish puberty and put on 10-15 pounds and he could be that running back. At the beginning of the season the guy who played running back ran so upright and slowed down anticipating contact. I feared for his life. He came along mid season and I was optimistic (I posted his progress on another thread). I don’t know what happened to him in the last few games but, bottom line, if a kid isn’t aggressive by 16-17 there isn’t anything a coach can do to bring it out. You either like doling out hits or you don’t. The rest of the receiving corp would be undersized for running backs. All tall and thin.
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wetsu
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Post by wetsu on Nov 16, 2024 22:18:21 GMT -5
Well I see around eight games a year. The most aggressive runner is the Bowman kid. He’s a sophomore who maybe weighs 145 pounds if he’s holding a bag of quarters. Running him 15-20 times a game out of the backfield would be a good way to guarantee he doesn’t finish the season. Give him another year to finish puberty and put on 10-15 pounds and he could be that running back. At the beginning of the season the guy who played running back ran so upright and slowed down anticipating contact. I feared for his life. He came along mid season and I was optimistic (I posted his progress on another thread). I don’t know what happened to him in the last few games but, bottom line, if a kid isn’t aggressive by 16-17 there isn’t anything a coach can do to bring it out. You either like doling out hits or you don’t. The rest of the receiving corp would be undersized for running backs. All tall and thin. Fair enough. You explained the situation well, thank you. Occasionally it's just a matter of timing like in the case of Bowman. In another year or two he could be a hammer but now he's just not ready. I fully agree with your quote that I bolded. As far as lanky receivers there are certainly advantages to length. |
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Post by minutiea on Nov 16, 2024 23:46:02 GMT -5
Bowman looks bigger than Devito. How many times does he run in a game? I suggested 10 times not 15-20. The carries don't have to be between the tackles. He could go in motion. He could still line up at WR. The more versatile he is the more he could mean to the team. Just lining up in the back field would give the offense another dimension the opposition would have to prepare for.
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Post by peacelovepigskin on Nov 17, 2024 2:03:37 GMT -5
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Post by buckeye33 on Nov 17, 2024 14:32:23 GMT -5
Shelbys fundamental flaws and thinking are what beat them. Despite all the razzle-dazzle etc. Foooball 101 eluded them. All year, Shelby struggled with short yardage situations. Last night when the situation begged for successive qb sneaks to run out the clock and win the game, Ontario loaded the line and Shelby ran their standard direct snap to the qb four yards off the line of scrimmage. No chance for the qb and the resultant safety was the eventual game winner. Contrast that to Ontario -- 2nd half, down 22 points, 4th down and three at their own 40. So Shelby, never thinking that an athletic qb could run the edge, loaded the box with 11 guys within a yard of the scrimmage line and never protected the edge. Result -- Miller waltzed around left end for 62 yards untouched for a td and the comeback was on. Simple smart basic football resulted in a W for Ontario and an L for Shelby, On the play Miller ran in, it was a 30 yard TD run and a DB was responsible for Miller running to the left and didn’t hold his responsibility and went inside. Great play call by Ontario and missed assignment by a Shelby DB |
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Nov 17, 2024 22:59:05 GMT -5
To round out the point about Shelby not using the running game to its max, the coaching staff inherited Owen Fisher and got about 8 yards per carry on about 20 carries per game during that two year stretch. He has the career rushing marks for Shelby. When he graduated, the same QB who was there the year before wound up throwing for 4,000+ yards as a senior. It wasn't some mystery on why the offense had to evolve.
The coaches are absolutely going to use who is available and make the offense cater best to those individuals.
There's a lot of fair criticisms being aired out here. Anything involving the running game doesn't make sense if those folks watched the games. It isn't some profound ideological stance or ignorance.
"Why doesn't Willard pass for 200+ yards per game? Good teams do that all the time. Are the coaches stupid?"
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csk
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Post by csk on Nov 21, 2024 3:21:04 GMT -5
Did beating Lexington (months ago)help them close out a game they led by 3 TDs in the 4th quarter? Case rested. Shelby coaching staff should be ashamed. Maybe they should have spent some practice time building a competent run game instead working on gadget plays for 2 hours lol…how can you not conserve a 3 TD fourth quarter lead, in high school? Ahh well, they have 10 months to figure it out now haha Ashamed of themselves for going 12-1 barely losing to a team with a D1 athlete that they split wins with? Ashamed for winning every game by two scores or more? They beat a D3 regional semifinalist (Lex). If that’s to be ashamed of I’ll take ashamed every year. |
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