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Post by shelbyrr11 on Feb 10, 2017 16:24:41 GMT -5
Stability and success for yourself should be the goal, not others. If you have value regardless of enrollment you will have options even if your league is not stable. I believe that a majority of members in the MOAC, OCC, and SBC would be happy to have Shelby in their leagues. Shelby may not have ready access to those leagues at the moment, but it isn't like Shelby has to campaign very hard to get support for their inclusion from a majority of members in each of those league. However, did having value save Shelby from league reshuffling over the past 6 years? Do you think Shelby enjoyed scheduling Bryan in football because Galion/Upper bailed on the NOL? Likewise, look at how quickly the NCC crumbled because of the size disparity in schools there. Shelby has already established its value. They are not worried about that. They are worried about finding others with the most success and stability compatible with Shelby's.
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Post by fanofthegame on Feb 10, 2017 17:51:12 GMT -5
If you ae looking for guaranteed wins, neither the MOAC or the OCC would be the place to go. If you want a competitive conference and less travel........ It is apparent Fan thinks Shelby should find and take the "easiest" route in hopes of more conference titles...easy doesn't make you a better athlete/team, it just makes you think you are better than you really are... Funny, I reread my posts and didn't see myself say that anywhere. Let me be clear. Both leagues will provide good competition. I don't think Shelby wins the OCC in the money sport as often as the MOAC. Fact is you have to win, especially in football. You don't win and kids quit coming out which in turn makes it harder to win (see Willard). You don't go at least 7-3 you don't play week 11. Conference titles and post seasons are more likely for Shelby in the MOAC in my opinion. If anything the MOAC should be offended by your posts. You're implying that I am saying they are significantly weaker. I'm just saying that top to bottom they are closer in size to Shelby whereas in the OCC Shelby would be a slightly larger Clear Fork.
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Post by fanofthegame on Feb 10, 2017 17:55:57 GMT -5
Who in your post would be drawing from 500-600 kids? 372 Marion Harding (Marion) 369 Madison Comprehensive (Mansfield) 351 Ashland (Ashland) 332 Mansfield Senior (Mansfield) 314 Sandusky (Sandusky) 288 Norwalk (Norwalk) 276 Lexington (Lexington) 257 West Holmes (Millersburg) 243 Perkins (Sandusky) 232 Port Clinton (Port Clinton) 230 River Valley (Caledonia) 225 Bellevue (Bellevue) 220 Ontario (Ontario) 196 ShelbyVery strange that the 2 largest OCC schools were left off this list, DIs Wooster and Mt.Vernon What is Ashland's number in the updated count? Sometimes facts are left out to try to paint a less than accurate picture. Don't cloud your argument with facts.
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Post by SportsNut on Feb 10, 2017 20:18:01 GMT -5
...All things being equal I would think admin would go to a league where titles were likely over one where mid pack was the norm. MOAC versus OCC...
Hmmm...correct me if I am wrong but Fan's comment above, to me, means the MOAC is easier to win a conference title...or better yet, conference titles were likely...MOAC wouldn't be offended by my comments as I was simply repeating what u said...just wording it differently. Yes it is your opinion, but your opinion says the MOAC is an easier Road to conference titles for Shelby than OCC.
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Post by fanofthegame on Feb 10, 2017 20:37:27 GMT -5
MOAC bottom to top 171-360.
OCC 277-507.
I don't think my conclusion is shocking or earth shattering.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 10, 2017 22:38:56 GMT -5
Ashland is at 408 WF, but everyone else on that list you quoted has changed so it isn't quite useful to compare the two. The only reason I asked was to see if the new list made Ashland the 3rd DI school in the OCC. The NOL has zero DIs. Is Harding a DI or DII the next 2 years? A very important comparison concerning the leagues.... on, off and hidden from that list
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 23:10:38 GMT -5
MOAC bottom to top 171-360. OCC 277-507. I don't think my conclusion is shocking or earth shattering. Who is 360 in the MOAC? Because Harding is 390.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 23:13:30 GMT -5
I laugh how some say "we are D2 so we should never be in a league with D1 teams" but they have no problem being a D2 in a league with D3 teams.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 10, 2017 23:34:57 GMT -5
MOAC bottom to top 171-360. OCC 277-507. I don't think my conclusion is shocking or earth shattering. Who is 360 in the MOAC? DUH! Harding.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 10, 2017 23:38:52 GMT -5
^^^ Why not just kick Tiffin and Sandusky out of the SBC? Your not paying attention. He's trying to get to 24 schools. You don't gain schools by kicking out members.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 10, 2017 23:40:36 GMT -5
Many changes still coming. Some schools are still being reported too high. Shelby for sure. Possibly Clyde. These numbers are much closer than the first run though. Perkins has dropped quite a bit. After this go around with their district, will be interesting to see the next count (2019). They need to stop the bleeding. They look further out of wack than the 1st set. This stupidity happens every year. A couple of bright Jr. Hi. kids with a computer and excel could get it done right the first time every time.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 10, 2017 23:45:11 GMT -5
It was all about travel...avg drive time was way less than in SBC. Besides that, we compete with most OCC schools in most of the bigger sports most years even though OCC schools are larger.Exactly! Shelby has competed successfully with a number of schools in the OCC who in return compete annually for the OCC title. There is a difference between St. X. and Mansfield. Shelby wouldn't win 1/10th of the OCC titles that Lex does.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 10, 2017 23:47:13 GMT -5
If we are looking at a MOAC vs. OCC discussion in terms of enrollment, Shelby may be in the middle of both conferences based on enrollment...but you gotta look at the standard deviation of the other members relative to Shelby. It paints a different competitive picture. WTH??? Common Core, get with the program.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 10, 2017 23:59:04 GMT -5
...All things being equal I would think admin would go to a league where titles were likely over one where mid pack was the norm. MOAC versus OCC... Hmmm...correct me if I am wrong but Fan's comment above, to me, means the MOAC is easier to win a conference title...or better yet, conference titles were likely...MOAC wouldn't be offended by my comments as I was simply repeating what u said...just wording it differently. Yes it is your opinion, but your opinion says the MOAC is an easier Road to conference titles for Shelby than OCC. I would think the vast majority of the knowledgeable in North Central and Central Ohio would agree that the OCC is a much more difficult league, across the board in all sports than the MOAC. And just so happens to be a MUCH larger school league than the MOAC.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 7:28:24 GMT -5
Sometimes facts are left out to try to paint a less than accurate picture. Don't cloud your argument with facts. Truthfully I did not see them on the page i was collecting the numbers from. I did find them today as the OHSAA numbers have been updated and there is one school with a 500 number but none with anything close to 600.
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Post by fanofthegame on Feb 11, 2017 7:45:08 GMT -5
MOAC bottom to top 171-360. OCC 277-507. I don't think my conclusion is shocking or earth shattering. Who is 360 in the MOAC? Because Harding is 390. I just took the numbers from the MOAC thread.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 7:50:00 GMT -5
Understood, some sites have different info as I found out when collecting my numbers.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Feb 11, 2017 9:00:14 GMT -5
Okay, I think I figured out how to save the SBC from implosion. The SBC doesn't actually have to get to 24 football schools, 20 football schools might be enough to make things livable
Lake stays at 6 Bay stays at 6 River adds 2 teams, Gibsonburg and Hopewell-Loudon to get to 8 Lake and Bay play 2 crossover games All teams would then have weeks 4-10 scheduled and just need to find non-con opponents for weeks 1-3 I don't see how the 6 Bay teams would have a problem playing just 2 games vs Lake teams they have historically been playing. I don't see how the 6 Lake teams would complain about computer points with having to have to play 2 Bay teams.
Lake Tiffin Columbian Sandusky Clyde Norwalk Perkins Bellevue
Bay Port Clinton Vermilion Shelby Huron Edison Oak Harbor
River Willard Lakota Gibsonburg Margaretta Hopewell-Loudon SMCC Tiffin Calvert Fremont St Joe
Did I finally make a Conference that people think will work? We all know a Conference where schools have to find non-con opponents for weeks 4 and 5 is doomed to collapse.
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Post by kingmartinez on Feb 11, 2017 9:03:49 GMT -5
Not a bad thought. Bay schools wouldn't be warm to the idea but it could work out. Not sure if River schools would support it because they'd have to vote on the change. It doesn't affect them; however, they were against it previously. They didn't want to be required to play crossovers. Lake schools certainly would like it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 9:06:44 GMT -5
Rambo, Is competition the reason for the thought of implosion?
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Post by smitty1974 on Mar 21, 2017 20:18:43 GMT -5
keystone and firelands aint going anywhere.with wellington,black river, clearview and oberlin in their conference there is no reason for them to leave the pac conference and play genoa and oak harbor and sbc.not going to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 17:22:11 GMT -5
My alma mater gibsonburg had there school board meeting Monday and voted to join sbc river.Great move 106 boys local teams taac was ALOT of travvel. Spoke to there AD my classmate brent liskai they have solid numbers in grade schools that are bright future.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 17:35:02 GMT -5
My sons played and graduated from Ross 2010 / 2015 respectively, Fremont was a solidv football program.Fremont is having heroin problems drug problems you name it.As for football program is down.I see kids not wanting to play because TRAC is extremely physical and brutal physically.Ross gets around 45-50 kids out.I'm seeing a lot of kids choosing to stay in small towns or go to Catholic school for better education. Common core is hurting public schools bigger Like Fremont .If I had my 2 boys in Fremont growing up my wife and I would send them to perrysburg or st.Johns or st.Joe. Fremont has 461 boys it don't matter how many kids you have.
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chs71
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Post by chs71 on Mar 24, 2017 19:47:31 GMT -5
My sons played and graduated from Ross 2010 / 2015 respectively, Fremont was a solidv football program.Fremont is having heroin problems drug problems you name it.As for football program is down.I see kids not wanting to play because TRAC is extremely physical and brutal physically.Ross gets around 45-50 kids out.I'm seeing a lot of kids choosing to stay in small towns or go to Catholic school for better education. Common core is hurting public schools bigger Like Fremont .If I had my 2 boys in Fremont growing up my wife and I would send them to perrysburg or st.Johns or st.Joe. Fremont has 461 boys it don't matter how many kids you have. 1. I guess the Ross football program was not so solid if just two years later it is down. 2. Kids choose to stay in small towns because that is where they and their parents live. Kids have no idea if the education is better in their school or another one. 3. It seems strange that Common Core is hurting public schools like Fremont, but apparently not at other public schools like Perrysburg. 4. I guess it really don't matter how many kids you have.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 20:32:00 GMT -5
CHS71. Last 7 years since joining trac Ross is 3-7 in that span.Numerous coaches coaching changes a lot of internal stuff.2014 Ross was 7-3 .Only winning season in 7 years. As far as common core not affecting perrysburg, TRUE stable HC in kregal have around 100 kids 10-12.Financially well off. Findlay is in same boat,a lot of factories, Cooper tire, whirlpool is there plus marathon HQs are there.Whitmer is very rich get money from Toledo jeep. Public schools like Avon, perrysburg, Worthington kilbourne etc are the exception.Fremont is not rich. In trac conference lima sr.and Fremont 1-2 in terms of revenue Findlay whitmer are richest
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 20:37:55 GMT -5
Demographics and socioeconomics are what Ross is seeing. When our boys were growing up 90's - early 2000's ross was stable but last 4-5 years its gotten worse.Shame.
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chs71
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Post by chs71 on Mar 25, 2017 14:06:47 GMT -5
CHS71. Last 7 years since joining trac Ross is 3-7 in that span.Numerous coaches coaching changes a lot of internal stuff.2014 Ross was 7-3 .Only winning season in 7 years. As far as common core not affecting perrysburg, TRUE stable HC in kregal have around 100 kids 10-12.Financially well off. Findlay is in same boat,a lot of factories, Cooper tire, whirlpool is there plus marathon HQs are there.Whitmer is very rich get money from Toledo jeep. Public schools like Avon, perrysburg, Worthington kilbourne etc are the exception.Fremont is not rich. In trac conference lima sr.and Fremont 1-2 in terms of revenue Findlay whitmer are richest 1. How is it that in the last seven years while every other school has played at least 70 football games Ross is only 3-7? 2. No school's head football coach has anything to do with Common Core 3. "Findlay's" Whirlpool plant is in the Van Buren school district.
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7up
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Post by 7up on Aug 30, 2017 3:07:25 GMT -5
Ashland is at 408 WF, but everyone else on that list you quoted has changed so it isn't quite useful to compare the two. The only reason I asked was to see if the new list made Ashland the 3rd DI school in the OCC. The NOL has zero DIs. Is Harding a DI or DII the next 2 years? A very important comparison concerning the leagues.... on, off and hidden from that list harding is small D2 few kids from being D3
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 6:30:23 GMT -5
With the new CB in place teams could be moving between divisions annually.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Aug 30, 2017 18:57:28 GMT -5
The only reason I asked was to see if the new list made Ashland the 3rd DI school in the OCC. The NOL has zero DIs. Is Harding a DI or DII the next 2 years? A very important comparison concerning the leagues.... on, off and hidden from that list harding is small D2 few kids from being D3 Yep, Hardingites were saying they'd be DIII this year.
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