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Post by Willard Fillmore on Sept 4, 2017 17:04:39 GMT -5
Are you a teenager?? IMO high school teachers/counselors/coaches are underpaid not overpaid. Ontario's student population is growing more than any school in the area. They have over 2100 students. That's 3 counselors for every 700 students and you think 3 is too many??? With all the issues confronting today's kids along with absent parenting, 3 isn't enough. I've seen many dozens of coaches around here. Hawkins is not a bad coach. Bad coaches rarely have winning records regardless of the athletes they have. When I played we got yelled at all the time and had a streak of 24-1. The coaches told us if we aren't yelling at you it's because we've given up on you. The best players got yelled at the most. They were expected to play up to their abilities at all times, play smart, play mistake free. You're teenager judgmental attitude is a "joke", a "waste" and IS what "sucks". Willard, would you really want that man counseling your kid? "Counseling" covers about 1000 different areas. I can think of many areas I would rather have him, than you, counseling my kids. We have ALL sinned. How many sins have you committed? Just because you haven't been caught doesn't count. What do you know about all counselors? Have they ever lied? Have they ever coveted? Have they ever stolen something? Have they ever taken the Lord's name in vain? |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Sept 4, 2017 18:39:27 GMT -5
I don't believe that technically infidelity is a fireable offense at a public school. It certainly wasn't at Galion. Although, I suppose that in Ontario, as at most places, it will depend on how many games the man wins. Teachers are human and if that was a fire-able offense the turnover would be much higher than it is now. BUT, knowing it going into the interview and having it happen after being hired could be different. It DOES NOT matter when sins happen. What DOES matter if forgiveness was asked for sins. |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Sept 4, 2017 18:45:12 GMT -5
O2, take the bet. Mt Vernon is not looking at anything and West Holmes wants the OCC to add teams. MORE untruths. scooty dude himself mentioned a new league possibility for Mt. Vernon on here. West Holmes has wanted the OCC to add schools for 15 years, as long as they were east of Wooster. What has that got them? Orville, one of the closest schools to them leaving. If THE best the OCC has been able to do is add Mt.Vernon. The OCC is going to be at 7 or fewer for some time. |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Sept 4, 2017 19:26:19 GMT -5
I don't believe that technically infidelity is a fireable offense at a public school. It certainly wasn't at Galion. Although, I suppose that in Ontario, as at most places, it will depend on how many games the man wins. That's what mattered in Galion. I sat in the stands at many Galion games and heard his praises. Those and the many relatives I have in Galion thought he was a savior, until he left for Ontario. |
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Post by GHS 1999 on Sept 4, 2017 20:53:15 GMT -5
Here is just an honest opinion from a Galion alum and fan. Had him as a health teacher in 1995 as a freshman and he was one of my favorite teachers. He definitely had the girls in the front and the best looking closest to him. When he was hired in 2007 I remembered thinking if anyone could turn around this mess of a football program it was him. He did not disappoint in that he won a lot of games in his tenure here. In fact his 60 wins are the most wins in school history. His overall record was 60-34. He was certainly helped by the fact that we played in the NCC for 3 years which was not the level of football played in the NOL or MOAC. All in all Galion was fortunate to have him for being able to turn the football program around. Despite the success I can also say I left many games scratching my head because of the coaching. I could rattle off one game each season he was here as one that the team just didn't seem to show up for and we lost. As far as singing his praises while he was here and being mad he left I personally can't say that. I knew he'd eventually leave since Galion couldn't offer him the teaching position he wanted. And since a cousin of mine is on his staff in Ontario, I hope they do well. After 2014 I thought it was time for him to move on. I won't share on here why, but if anyone wants to know, pm me.
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Post by gtigers on Sept 4, 2017 21:35:54 GMT -5
Here is another honest opinion on Hawkins. I was a freshman his first year in Galion, he was our freshman coach, he was young and very arrogant. He was an ok coach. He played favorites (still does). I remember him over stepping and a varsity coach put him in his place really quick. Fast forward to his return to Galion, where several cousins played under him, along with friends kids. He is even more arrogant, and is still a good coach, a good coach not great! My biggest problem with Hawkins is he is not there to make the kids better men, if it doesnt involve football he could care less. With the talent he had while in galion, we should have won at east one playoff game. IMO his weakness is his arrogance, twice in the playoffs he continued to do the same thing over and over, thinking it was going to work.
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Post by galion on Sept 5, 2017 3:21:03 GMT -5
First Willard, what would you like him to council your kids in? Obviously ethics is off the table. Let's cut out the we've all sinned bs. So one of the primary jobs of a school counselor is to adequately advise students on their options for their future education. This man can't even grasp the intricacies of ohsaa rules regarding football He has demonstrated this at his previous two stops. You really want to trust him to be able to figure out how to keep a kid eligible or to keep them on track to graduate or to get them college eligible? I find it humorous that actually are attempting to defend this man and the position he holds.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Sept 5, 2017 19:02:59 GMT -5
I don't know the man. I NEVER prejudge or judge without first hand knowledge. I NEVER talk about someone's failings in public. I have failed too often to do that. I'm not a hater. I find it hilarious that you cherished him when he was at Galon, but hate him after he left. Doesn't say much for your ethics. Doesn't say much for your honesty. Doesn't say much for you covetousness. Are you aware than many "counselors" counsel others how not to do what they have done? How do you know the other "counselors" at Ontario haven't cheated? I can guarantee they know far less about the OHSAA. And knowledge or lack of knowledge concerning the OHSAA as related to being "counselor" makes you and your argument look bad.
I bet if we could go back in time to NOSF we would find you singing his praises, saying the OHSAA thing wasn't his fault, the punishment wasn't fair. GT supported him and said he did nothing wrong concerning his son.
The fact that you think sin is BS, nullifies your position. You cannot talk out of both sides of your mouth on this subject. That makes you look bad. Can you tell us ONE person that you know who hasn't sinned? How do we know you've never cheated? You can say you haven't, but all that means is you have't been caught. Everyone who cheats, also lies. How many times have broken the commandment about lying? How many times have you coveted? How many times have you taken the Lord's name in vain?
Based on the bloviating you've done on this, what respect I've had for you has diminished considerably.
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Post by galion on Sept 6, 2017 3:30:50 GMT -5
I'll take your bet. You're obviously oblivious to most of my posts regarding Hawkins while he was in Galion. I certainly didn't "cherish" him while he was here. If you don't believe me ask around. I had all sorts of posters on NOSF wee wee e d at me over my comments and opinions about him.
The fact that you are trying to equate all sins nullifies your position. Taking the Lord's name in vain is equivalent to cheating on and leaving your wife? Really Willard? I wonder if your wife would agree with that position. It's OK, we had people in Galion willing to defend all of his "mistakes" at any cost too. You obviously are going to defend all things Ontario so you will as well.
I really don't see a school district hiring a Guidance counselor with pretext that he "counsel others how not to do what he has done". My brother is a guidance counselor and behavioral guidance is a much smaller part of the job than scheduling, the CCP program, scholarships, and getting kids into the courses they need to graduate on time or get into college. Usually the schools employ a school psychologist to deal with the chronic behavioral issues today. I have a cousin who is one of those.
Keep digging you'll get to China soon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 8:07:36 GMT -5
I'll take your bet. You're obviously oblivious to most of my posts regarding Hawkins while he was in Galion. I certainly didn't "cherish" him while he was here. If you don't believe me ask around. I had all sorts of posters on NOSF wee wee e d at me over my comments and opinions about him. The fact that you are trying to equate all sins nullifies your position. Taking the Lord's name in vain is equivalent to cheating on and leaving your wife? Really Willard? I wonder if your wife would agree with that position. It's OK, we had people in Galion willing to defend all of his "mistakes" at any cost too. You obviously are going to defend all things Ontario so you will as well. I really don't see a school district hiring a Guidance counselor with pretext that he "counsel others how not to do what he has done". My brother is a guidance counselor and behavioral guidance is a much smaller part of the job than scheduling, the CCP program, scholarships, and getting kids into the courses they need to graduate on time or get into college. Usually the schools employ a school psychologist to deal with the chronic behavioral issues today. I have a cousin who is one of those. Keep digging you'll get to China soon. I suppose reformed criminals would be a the top of every school's list. |
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Post by greenman on Sept 7, 2017 20:14:31 GMT -5
I'll take your bet. You're obviously oblivious to most of my posts regarding Hawkins while he was in Galion. I certainly didn't "cherish" him while he was here. If you don't believe me ask around. I had all sorts of posters on NOSF wee wee e d at me over my comments and opinions about him. The fact that you are trying to equate all sins nullifies your position. Taking the Lord's name in vain is equivalent to cheating on and leaving your wife? Really Willard? I wonder if your wife would agree with that position. It's OK, we had people in Galion willing to defend all of his "mistakes" at any cost too. You obviously are going to defend all things Ontario so you will as well. I really don't see a school district hiring a Guidance counselor with pretext that he "counsel others how not to do what he has done". My brother is a guidance counselor and behavioral guidance is a much smaller part of the job than scheduling, the CCP program, scholarships, and getting kids into the courses they need to graduate on time or get into college. Usually the schools employ a school psychologist to deal with the chronic behavioral issues today. I have a cousin who is one of those. Keep digging you'll get to China soon. That's not what our brother Paul says about sin - we all fall short of deserving perfect grace by ourselves, so there is no need for a sliding scale, is there? Aren't both in the top 10, too? His (Hawkins') private sins are his cross alone to bear, the same as everyone else. Unless it involves the harming of a student, or is done either at the school/with school resources/on the school's watch, that's how it should be. Think of it this way: would you want a person of the cloth coming in for a school assembly at your child's school and proselytizing and pronouncing judgement on how your children act? Even if it was your own priest or pastor? Even if your answer is yes, you can at least see how others would reasonably claim that such an activity could be construed as an unconstitutional attack on the right to raise your child by what should be a secular public school district, right? Adultery is distasteful to the secular portion of our society, grounds for divorce, and a mortal sin to boot, but it's not technically illegal or a firing offense in itself. Teachers, counselors, coaches: we're all human, too. We come complete with the same faults and weaknesses all others possess, and all we can do is the best we can in modeling behavior for students. You know where that should come from, though? Mom and Dad (or whoever)! Raise the ones you breed yourself right, and they should know right from wrong well enough before we can influence them. Hawkins was/is a football coach - he was hired to coach football. No matter what other position he has within the district, his private life NOT your business unless students are harmed or the reputation of the district is harmed. Period. He's not the school's priest-in-residence. I understand that you have objections to other aspects of this coach besides what he does in the privacy of his bedroom - that's fine, as long as it's not a reflection of the private life he leads outside his job. If his indiscretions harmed people close to you, I can understand, but if not, then stop chewing this venomous toad you've got for him, spit it out, and move on. |
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Post by galion on Sept 8, 2017 3:17:21 GMT -5
Witness brother Greenman. Oh how I love Christianity. The ability to whitewash virtually anything. Oh, you can't talk about this because everybody sins. Did you even read the entire thread? I didn't bring the subject up. After it was my original point was simply the irony of the whole thing. How his brother in law essentially just got him his dream job and now this is how he shows his gratitude. For Christ sake I'm the one who posted that it wasn't a fireable offense in the first place nor did I suggest that he should be. So please take your sanctimonious crap and feed it to somebody else.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 7:29:52 GMT -5
If the guy had private sins they would not be known all over a multiple county area.
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Post by greenman on Sept 8, 2017 9:42:29 GMT -5
Witness brother Greenman. Oh how I love Christianity. The ability to whitewash virtually anything. Oh, you can't talk about this because everybody sins. Did you even read the entire thread? I didn't bring the subject up. After it was my original point was simply the irony of the whole thing. How his brother in law essentially just got him his dream job and now this is how he shows his gratitude. For Christ sake I'm the one who posted that it wasn't a fireable offense in the first place nor did I suggest that he should be. So please take your sanctimonious crap and feed it to somebody else. You're the one who brought his actual bona fides as a school counselor into question, and I figured it was vis-a-vis his infidelity, and what I read into your responses to WF confirmed it, at least for me. I never said we can't talk about it - I highlighted part of your quote that I disagreed with, and shared my view. Taking the Lord's name in vain isn't different than adultery, since indeed, we all fall short anyway. Even if there were a sliding scale, both adultery and using the name of God as a curse are, as I said, both right up there on the top ten. As for you mentioning adultery wasn't a firing offense, you did do that, but seemed anxious to see if his alleged deeds stopped him from being hired somewhere else. Why? What I see in this yet another community member trying to hold the private lives of teachers and coaches up to harsher scrutiny than they deserve only for being public employees. I've already addressed it more than once on this site with others. No one, including myself, is "whitewashing" what Hawkins allegedly did. WF may go to ridiculous lengths to defend him, and you may go to the same lengths to deride him: why this one person lives on so long in NOSF threads is a mystery to me. (More for Dude:) Also, the "private" part of "private sin" in my post referred to that which he did outside his public persona as coach/counselor/whatever other post he held or holds in a district. That it's all over the county is not not his fault, unless he chose to explicitly advertise it. For all I know, in this day and age, he could have done exactly that. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 11:56:20 GMT -5
^^^ So with that thinking regardless what a person does inside on their own time, you feel they should be considered good leaders/counselors/coaches of our youth. I've heard of careers ended by a DUI on personal time. Your term "explicitly advertise" is exactly how it is known in multiple counties.
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Post by galion on Sept 8, 2017 13:17:35 GMT -5
Witness brother Greenman. Oh how I love Christianity. The ability to whitewash virtually anything. Oh, you can't talk about this because everybody sins. Did you even read the entire thread? I didn't bring the subject up. After it was my original point was simply the irony of the whole thing. How his brother in law essentially just got him his dream job and now this is how he shows his gratitude. For Christ sake I'm the one who posted that it wasn't a fireable offense in the first place nor did I suggest that he should be. So please take your sanctimonious crap and feed it to somebody else. You're the one who brought his actual bona fides as a school counselor into question, and I figured it was vis-a-vis his infidelity, and what I read into your responses to WF confirmed it, at least for me. I never said we can't talk about it - I highlighted part of your quote that I disagreed with, and shared my view. Taking the Lord's name in vain isn't different than adultery, since indeed, we all fall short anyway. Even if there were a sliding scale, both adultery and using the name of God as a curse are, as I said, both right up there on the top ten. As for you mentioning adultery wasn't a firing offense, you did do that, but seemed anxious to see if his alleged deeds stopped him from being hired somewhere else. Why? What I see in this yet another community member trying to hold the private lives of teachers and coaches up to harsher scrutiny than they deserve only for being public employees. I've already addressed it more than once on this site with others. No one, including myself, is "whitewashing" what Hawkins allegedly did. WF may go to ridiculous lengths to defend him, and you may go to the same lengths to deride him: why this one person lives on so long in NOSF threads is a mystery to me. (More for Dude:) Also, the "private" part of "private sin" in my post referred to that which he did outside his public persona as coach/counselor/whatever other post he held or holds in a district. That it's all over the county is not not his fault, unless he chose to explicitly advertise it. For all I know, in this day and age, he could have done exactly that. You are obviously an educator, or at least work in the educational field. Your attitude disappoints me greatly. First, the one who brought it up, O2, has since retracted or edited it from his post. He is an Ontario student who apparently graduated last year. I had known about the situation before he brought it up but his mentioning it confirms my suspicions that if I knew about it that the whole of Ontario, including the kids in the high school where he works, knew about it as well. Although I am not an educator myself, I come from a family full of educators from my grandparents to my parents to my brother and aunt and uncle and cousins and now my own daughter. What every one of these people understand that you seem to want to sweep under the rug or deny is that molders of young minds are in fact role models. What they do OUTSIDE of school DOES matter. If you get pulled over for DUI it sends a message that it's OK. If you cheat on your significant other it sends a message that it's OK. You have a more important and formative role in the lives of your student many times than do their own parent(s). That's not deniable. Again, read my posts. My questioning of his "counselor" qualifications had little to do with this topic. I simply question how a man who can't grasp the intricacies of the OHSAA rules regarding football can be trusted with complex tasks such as scheduling and meeting eligibility requirements for graduation and beyond. As far as his prior deeds go, he has done nothing so far in Ontario that he didn't do in Galion except the actual leaving the wife is new.. So clearly they didn't stop him from getting hired elsewhere. I don't know where that came from I certainly didn't bring it up. I'm sorry in advance but I'm about to seriously upset some Christians. There is a sliding scale for sins, at least as it applies for us mortals and how we interact with each other. If that weren't the case every charge in a criminal courtroom would carry the same penalty. Killing is in the top 10 also along with adultery, lying, cheating, stealing, envy, cursing, and working on Sundays(which I do every week). Are we really going to pretend that these "sins" are all equal offenses? You'd have to be pretty simple minded to come to that conclusion. |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Sept 8, 2017 17:06:46 GMT -5
I don't believe that technically infidelity is a fireable offense at a public school. It certainly wasn't at Galion. Although, I suppose that in Ontario, as at most places, it will depend on how many games the man wins THERE it is, the first mention of infidelity on this thread. More untruths come out of your mouth than the football coachs. Only hater agnostics like you would broach that subject on a sports site that his players might visit. Obviously your ignorant goal was to make sure as many as possible knew.i BTW, lying under oath can get you up to 5 years in jail. The biggest social punishment Of all the commandments after killing and stealing. You're sickening, give up the hatred and move on, this was the first game of the season. |
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Post by greenman on Sept 8, 2017 17:33:20 GMT -5
You didn't upset me as a Christian, galion. It's just I don't believe there is a "sliding scale" within the realm of mortal sins. Adultery and using God's name as a curse are in the same list as highest of the high. I don't know how that makes me simple-minded. As for the interest in how someone's personal life affects others outside the class - within the context of having problems getting hired elsewhere - I TOTALLY attributed that to you incorrectly and apologize - that was scooty's take. For you and for Dude, however, I'd like to know from either one or both of you how an actual criminal offense within our secular justice system stacks up against a mortal sin that we tend not to prosecute, but allow to the characters involved to resolve it through their own litigation. DUI does not really equate with just marital infidelity on the list of actionable offenses in most workplaces, distasteful and wrong though it is.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Sept 8, 2017 17:57:15 GMT -5
I do not. pm me if you think it's something I need to know. Again, I'm not calling for Hawkins or anybody to lose their job over infidelity. I'm simply disagreeing with the notion that what educators do outside of the workplace has no impact on the attitudes and future actions of those who they are educating. Nearly 50 % of marriages end in divorce, a high % due to infidelity. A MUCH bigger impact on students due to their parents than school employees. |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Sept 8, 2017 18:07:41 GMT -5
Witness brother Greenman. Oh how I love Christianity. The ability to whitewash virtually anything. Oh, you can't talk about this because everybody sins. Did you even read the entire thread? I didn't bring the subject up. After it was my original point was simply the irony of the whole thing. How his brother in law essentially just got him his dream job and now this is how he shows his gratitude. For Christ sake I'm the one who posted that it wasn't a fireable offense in the first place nor did I suggest that he should be. So please take your sanctimonious crap and feed it to somebody else. " For Christ sake" |
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Post by galion on Sept 8, 2017 21:56:53 GMT -5
I don't believe that technically infidelity is a fireable offense at a public school. It certainly wasn't at Galion. Although, I suppose that in Ontario, as at most places, it will depend on how many games the man wins THERE it is, the first mention of infidelity on this thread. More untruths come out of your mouth than Hawkins. Only hater agnostics like you would broach that subject on a sports site that his players might visit. Obviously your ignorant goal was to make sure as many as possible knew.i BTW, lying under oath can get you up to 5 years in jail. The biggest social punishment Of all the commandments after killing and stealing. You're sickening, give up the hatred and move on, this was the first game of the season. You know d a m n good and well that topic was mentioned in a previous post that was deleted or edited. But if you wish to call me a liar to ease your simple mind or lack of memory feel free. |
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Post by galion on Sept 8, 2017 22:05:37 GMT -5
I do not. pm me if you think it's something I need to know. Again, I'm not calling for Hawkins or anybody to lose their job over infidelity. I'm simply disagreeing with the notion that what educators do outside of the workplace has no impact on the attitudes and future actions of those who they are educating. Nearly 50 % of marriages end in divorce, a high % due to infidelity. A MUCH bigger impact on students due to their parents than school employees. Well doo doo, I stand corrected. I guess that makes it OK then. I guess we should all go back to the 70's now and just have a great big swingers lounge where the faculty rooms are. |
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Post by galion on Sept 8, 2017 22:06:45 GMT -5
Witness brother Greenman. Oh how I love Christianity. The ability to whitewash virtually anything. Oh, you can't talk about this because everybody sins. Did you even read the entire thread? I didn't bring the subject up. After it was my original point was simply the irony of the whole thing. How his brother in law essentially just got him his dream job and now this is how he shows his gratitude. For Christ sake I'm the one who posted that it wasn't a fireable offense in the first place nor did I suggest that he should be. So please take your sanctimonious crap and feed it to somebody else. " For Christ sake" I put that in there just for you. I knew you'd love it. |
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Post by galion on Dec 13, 2017 4:49:59 GMT -5
I don't know the man. I NEVER prejudge or judge without first hand knowledge. I NEVER talk about someone's failings in public. I have failed too often to do that. I'm not a hater. I find it hilarious that you cherished him when he was at Galon, but hate him after he left. Doesn't say much for your ethics. Doesn't say much for your honesty. Doesn't say much for you covetousness. Are you aware than many "counselors" counsel others how not to do what they have done? How do you know the other "counselors" at Ontario haven't cheated? I can guarantee they know far less about the OHSAA. And knowledge or lack of knowledge concerning the OHSAA as related to being "counselor" makes you and your argument look bad. I bet if we could go back in time to NOSF we would find you singing his praises, saying the OHSAA thing wasn't his fault, the punishment wasn't fair. GT supported him and said he did nothing wrong concerning his son. The fact that you think sin is BS, nullifies your position. You cannot talk out of both sides of your mouth on this subject. That makes you look bad. Can you tell us ONE person that you know who hasn't sinned? How do we know you've never cheated? You can say you haven't, but all that means is you have't been caught. Everyone who cheats, also lies. How many times have broken the commandment about lying? How many times have you coveted? How many times have you taken the Lord's name in vain? Based on the bloviating you've done on this, what respect I've had for you has diminished considerably. Nope Willard you never defended him And you NEVER talk about someone's failings in public unless of course they happen to be a high school kid from Norwalk. Who is the teller of untruths now? |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 13, 2017 15:34:08 GMT -5
THANK YOU! I don't know the man, never met the man. How can one defend someone they've never met and do not know?
It is painfully obvious you are the teller of untruths.
I did nothing more than say what had already been said by others MULTIPLE times.
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Post by usa70pp on Dec 13, 2017 17:08:10 GMT -5
When was this Ontario and Lexington football game played that you are all talking about?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 9:56:32 GMT -5
When was this Ontario and Lexington football game played that you are all talking about? Hey usa, here is a news flash for you. If the conversations only followed the topics they are posted under this site would have been dead a long time ago. Comments spark conversations, discussions, debates and for some, arguments. IF you are looking strictly for game information, buy a newspaper. |
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Post by usa70pp on Dec 14, 2017 11:25:34 GMT -5
There is a "General Discussion" thread on this site. I simply feel exchanges of this nature more correctly belong there. However, thank you so much for your thoughtful and pleasant reply.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 12:24:52 GMT -5
Honestly, the general discussion thread would be chaos if every off topic post went there and no one would be able to follow the discussion that was the result of a post about a game. Try not be such a site Nazi and just enjoy the site. IF something doesn't make sense, you may need to scroll back a few posts to get caught up.
Enjoy.
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Post by usa70pp on Dec 14, 2017 14:50:47 GMT -5
I will gladly give up my site Nazi tag, I did spend 12 years in West Berlin, as soon as you drop your ISIS demeanor.
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