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Post by dude on Jul 8, 2020 17:54:06 GMT -5
A small school in western Ohio has already announced they will begin school on the original scheduled date, hold traditional in person classes, run traditional busing and plan for a traditional fall sports season. IF they is any one needing online school it will be organized and handled on a case by case basis.
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Post by richrod on Jul 8, 2020 18:00:10 GMT -5
I'm not nearly as confident as I was that we finish a fall sports season.
Based on rumblings from around the state, seeing whats going on with colleges, because you can relate it to what HS will experience outside of travel.
I don't think a post season is feasible if you have the real possiblity of schools being put on remote learning shut down during the season if there is an outbreak in their community or county, do they have to forfeit? If you have them on the schedule can you pick up a new game that week if possible?
Honestly, I think that if they went to a one year deal where you play teams in your region to keep the games more regional, that might be the best way to get the most of out of the season.... like a district format. Thoughts?
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Post by Green Falcon on Jul 8, 2020 20:38:39 GMT -5
I'm not nearly as confident as I was that we finish a fall sports season. Based on rumblings from around the state, seeing whats going on with colleges, because you can relate it to what HS will experience outside of travel. I don't think a post season is feasible if you have the real possiblity of schools being put on remote learning shut down during the season if there is an outbreak in their community or county, do they have to forfeit? If you have them on the schedule can you pick up a new game that week if possible? Honestly, I think that if they went to a one year deal where you play teams in your region to keep the games more regional, that might be the best way to get the most of out of the season.... like a district format. Thoughts? it'd have to be some type of pool on a week to week basis. Like drawing teams out of a hat since at any point in time a team could be sidelined due to an outbreak/contamination. This would go horribly but it's the only way to prevent a bunch of forfeits.
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tori2
All Conference
2017 Playoff Pick'em Champion
Posts: 312
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Post by tori2 on Jul 8, 2020 23:16:27 GMT -5
There will be no football this year period. You guys are dreaming.
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Post by falcon87 on Jul 9, 2020 9:25:07 GMT -5
Sports Illustrated ArticleIf the colleges modify or cancel were looking at all kinds of problems. The politicizing of this whole thing is making governing organizations, conference commissioners, and your local officials sit on the hot seat. Despite what some may think your HS administrative team doesn't make enough money to be stuck with the consequences of these decisions. I see everyone kicking the can down the road hoping to get bailed out by someone else's decision.
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Post by unc4life on Jul 9, 2020 9:44:18 GMT -5
Folks, this decision has already been made. It is not going to be made by your school, or the conference, or the OHSAA. The decision to play football will be made by Mike Dewine through the health department. That decision has already been made. They will say yes football can be played....if you meet theses 100 things that must be done. Those things wont be able to be meet and football will not be played.
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Post by richrod on Jul 9, 2020 11:45:48 GMT -5
Sports Illustrated ArticleIf the colleges modify or cancel were looking at all kinds of problems. The politicizing of this whole thing is making governing organizations, conference commissioners, and your local officials sit on the hot seat. Despite what some may think your HS administrative team doesn't make enough money to be stuck with the consequences of these decisions. I see everyone kicking the can down the road hoping to get bailed out by someone else's decision. spot on! no leadership anywhere or at any level right now! its killing us.
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Post by smitty1974 on Jul 9, 2020 23:05:06 GMT -5
i agree with you richrod. especially after jerry snodgrass was fired by oshaa.he was a class act,now oshaa has no integrity and they should be investigated from the board president to the bottom of the chart and should start by having school superintendants and principals and AD's investigating oshaa with a last resort by the state. as far as other sports good luck 2020 is going to be a bad year for sports. as far as surviving its hard to say.its going to be interesting as far as the dominos drop as far pros and college sports are concerned and im hoping that high school sports survive.
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Post by sportsvideo on Jul 10, 2020 1:46:22 GMT -5
Couple things. 1st in order to swap the football season, school principals would vote on that first just like they do on any changes to scheduling , (and that never happened). Second Jerry wouldn’t have been deciding factor anyways . He would have been ONE vote. The situation with Jerry was tension he was causing inside with other staff members and it finally reached a boiling point where the board had enough.
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Post by richrod on Jul 10, 2020 12:15:04 GMT -5
Couple things. 1st in order to swap the football season, school principals would vote on that first just like they do on any changes to scheduling , (and that never happened). Second Jerry wouldn’t have been deciding factor anyways . He would have been ONE vote. The situation with Jerry was tension he was causing inside with other staff members and it finally reached a boiling point where the board had enough. bingo!
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 10, 2020 16:55:56 GMT -5
COVID update.
Just under 3000 Ohioans have died.
80% are nursing home residents.
600 non-nursing home patients have died from COVID.
Just under 400 people have died this year in Ohio from motor vehicle accidents. COVID is barely beating cars. Cancel football because people could die in their cars on the way to games.
I understand why we reacted the way we did initially. I was on board. All we had were unreliable numbers from China and scary numbers from Italy. Now we have Ohio numbers and they are less scary than NYC numbers.
It’s become more political and sells more ad time. Science is gone. We’ve lost our ever-loving minds.
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Post by richrod on Jul 10, 2020 18:02:12 GMT -5
COVID update. Just under 3000 Ohioans have died. 80% are nursing home residents. 600 non-nursing home patients have died from COVID. Just under 400 people have died this year in Ohio from motor vehicle accidents. COVID is barely beating cars. Cancel football because people could die in their cars on the way to games. I understand why we reacted the way we did initially. I was on board. All we had were unreliable numbers from China and scary numbers from Italy. Now we have Ohio numbers and they are less scary than NYC numbers. It’s become more political and sells more ad time. Science is gone. We’ve lost our ever-loving minds. Fan, I am genuinely curious. What would your suggestion be if a school approached you about playing a football season, and for that matter starting the school year normally? I see so much conflicting information that I am trying to wrap my head around it.
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Post by fbfan on Jul 10, 2020 18:26:39 GMT -5
Fan, another question if you don't mind. Do you have any statistics on the number of Flu deaths and other infectious diseases from last winter? I remember it being said that it was going to be a very bad flu season. I've read and heard rumors that every death possible has been attributed to covid, even when not confirmed, since hospitals are getting so much government money from treating covid patients. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the historic number of flu and other deaths compared to the total from last winter. I would bet that the numbers for last winter have actually gone down.
The fake news media has gone silent on deaths from causes other than covid. Why?
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 10, 2020 19:05:07 GMT -5
I’ll try to be brief.
Remember at the beginning? It was about flattering the curve. We acknowledged people were going to die. I saw official numbers provided by the state of Ohio that had predictions based on no, mild, moderate, and strict social distancing. Even strict social distancing had us full at the peak. We’ve admitted less than 20 in three hospitals TOTAL. Last I looked Richland County had 2 deaths. We’ve now switched to people aren’t allowed to die from this. The goal changed. It’s not a realistic goal. How long do we keep this up? Until a vaccine or treatment is available. Reality is that is probably 1-2 years away. We cannot sustain current standards for that amount of time. We’re jeopardizing our economy, our children’s education, our sanity. We have to acknowledge people are going to die. Most of them are going to be very old and very sick. Many are going to be people who made bad choices. Smokers, obese people with diabetes, people who never exercise and sit on the couch all day. Very few are going to be healthy people and they will make the news and have way too much influence on policy.
Having said that if I were advising a school I would tell them to start back with a split schedule. Half the kids there 2 1/2 days then swap. Probably unnecessary and potentially makes things worse. Who is going to watch those kids when they’re off? Vulnerable grandparents. But if they go back full time and there is a spike the state will make them go full home school. It’s a reasonable compromise. I’d advise them to play sports. Fans should maintain the same social distancing as church and the grocery store. These kids are not going to die from COVID.
Big picture I would have opened up a little faster so we would be further along by now. That might be the wrong answer. It’s just my opinion. I believe population density is the biggest factor. In Ohio it’s been nursing homes and prisons. Population density.
It’s always sad when people die, but people die. This hasn’t been the plague we anticipated.
I have no knowledge of people lying about cause of death or reasons for admission to get paid more. Admittedly our volume has been low. I would be disgusted by someone in my profession that would do that. Our job is to be compassionate scientist. That would be betraying the science part. It may be happening in big cities.
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Post by redskinfan04 on Jul 10, 2020 21:02:33 GMT -5
I’ll try to be brief. Remember at the beginning? It was about flattering the curve. We acknowledged people were going to die. I saw official numbers provided by the state of Ohio that had predictions based on no, mild, moderate, and strict social distancing. Even strict social distancing had us full at the peak. We’ve admitted less than 20 in three hospitals TOTAL. Last I looked Richland County had 2 deaths. We’ve now switched to people aren’t allowed to die from this. The goal changed. It’s not a realistic goal. How long do we keep this up? Until a vaccine or treatment is available. Reality is that is probably 1-2 years away. We cannot sustain current standards for that amount of time. We’re jeopardizing our economy, our children’s education, our sanity. We have to acknowledge people are going to die. Most of them are going to be very old and very sick. Many are going to be people who made bad choices. Smokers, obese people with diabetes, people who never exercise and sit on the couch all day. Very few are going to be healthy people and they will make the news and have way too much influence on policy. Having said that if I were advising a school I would tell them to start back with a split schedule. Half the kids there 2 1/2 days then swap. Probably unnecessary and potentially makes things worse. Who is going to watch those kids when they’re off? Vulnerable grandparents. But if they go back full time and there is a spike the state will make them go full home school. It’s a reasonable compromise. I’d advise them to play sports. Fans should maintain the same social distancing as church and the grocery store. These kids are not going to die from COVID. Big picture I would have opened up a little faster so we would be further along by now. That might be the wrong answer. It’s just my opinion. I believe population density is the biggest factor. In Ohio it’s been nursing homes and prisons. Population density. It’s always sad when people die, but people die. This hasn’t been the plague we anticipated. I have no knowledge of people lying about cause of death or reasons for admission to get paid more. Admittedly our volume has been low. I would be disgusted by someone in my profession that would do that. Our job is to be compassionate scientist. That would be betraying the science part. It may be happening in big cities. You want to open faster? Our worst states right now (Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc) all opened up early and rapidly. How’s that working out for them right now? Last I saw the governor of Texas was openly considering another lockdown.
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Post by dude on Jul 10, 2020 21:19:48 GMT -5
COVID update. Just under 3000 Ohioans have died. 80% are nursing home residents. 600 non-nursing home patients have died from COVID. Just under 400 people have died this year in Ohio from motor vehicle accidents. COVID is barely beating cars. Cancel football because people could die in their cars on the way to games. I understand why we reacted the way we did initially. I was on board. All we had were unreliable numbers from China and scary numbers from Italy. Now we have Ohio numbers and they are less scary than NYC numbers. It’s become more political and sells more ad time. Science is gone. We’ve lost our ever-loving minds. fan, I would like to help you with your stats. "600 non-nursing home patients have died WITH Covid".
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Post by dude on Jul 10, 2020 21:24:24 GMT -5
You want to open faster? Our worst states right now (Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc) all opened up early and rapidly. How’s that working out for them right now? Last I saw the governor of Texas was openly considering another lockdown. Please just remember that when you hear hospitalization stats you first know that many hospitals operate regularly at 50% capacity. This is how they make money or they close. In areas of the country with a high retirement rate, it is not uncommon for them to be closer to 85-90% on a regular basis. So when you hear some stats from Arizona, Texas and Florida keep that in mind.
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Post by redskinfan04 on Jul 10, 2020 22:09:42 GMT -5
You want to open faster? Our worst states right now (Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc) all opened up early and rapidly. How’s that working out for them right now? Last I saw the governor of Texas was openly considering another lockdown. Please just remember that when you hear hospitalization stats you first know that many hospitals operate regularly at 50% capacity. This is how they make money or they close. In areas of the country with a high retirement rate, it is not uncommon for them to be closer to 85-90% on a regular basis. So when you hear some stats from Arizona, Texas and Florida keep that in mind. I’m well aware of everything that you said it’s common knowledge for those who wish to seek it. That you felt compelled to share it sheds light on how bad things actually are in those states. When you need to start picking apart and discrediting hospital numbers it’s a sure sign that there is a real heath problem going on.
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 11, 2020 5:41:37 GMT -5
I’ll try to be brief. Remember at the beginning? It was about flattering the curve. We acknowledged people were going to die. I saw official numbers provided by the state of Ohio that had predictions based on no, mild, moderate, and strict social distancing. Even strict social distancing had us full at the peak. We’ve admitted less than 20 in three hospitals TOTAL. Last I looked Richland County had 2 deaths. We’ve now switched to people aren’t allowed to die from this. The goal changed. It’s not a realistic goal. How long do we keep this up? Until a vaccine or treatment is available. Reality is that is probably 1-2 years away. We cannot sustain current standards for that amount of time. We’re jeopardizing our economy, our children’s education, our sanity. We have to acknowledge people are going to die. Most of them are going to be very old and very sick. Many are going to be people who made bad choices. Smokers, obese people with diabetes, people who never exercise and sit on the couch all day. Very few are going to be healthy people and they will make the news and have way too much influence on policy. Having said that if I were advising a school I would tell them to start back with a split schedule. Half the kids there 2 1/2 days then swap. Probably unnecessary and potentially makes things worse. Who is going to watch those kids when they’re off? Vulnerable grandparents. But if they go back full time and there is a spike the state will make them go full home school. It’s a reasonable compromise. I’d advise them to play sports. Fans should maintain the same social distancing as church and the grocery store. These kids are not going to die from COVID. Big picture I would have opened up a little faster so we would be further along by now. That might be the wrong answer. It’s just my opinion. I believe population density is the biggest factor. In Ohio it’s been nursing homes and prisons. Population density. It’s always sad when people die, but people die. This hasn’t been the plague we anticipated. I have no knowledge of people lying about cause of death or reasons for admission to get paid more. Admittedly our volume has been low. I would be disgusted by someone in my profession that would do that. Our job is to be compassionate scientist. That would be betraying the science part. It may be happening in big cities. You want to open faster? Our worst states right now (Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc) all opened up early and rapidly. How’s that working out for them right now? Last I saw the governor of Texas was openly considering another lockdown. The places that are spiking differ in one major way. I thought saying it twice would make it obvious. Population density. Rural Florida isn’t having a problem. Miami-Dade County is. And I don’t believe it is the beaches that are the problem. Outdoor transmission is extremely low. It’s high rise hotels. Like nursing homes and prisons it’s people stacked on people. I readily admit I’m not 100% certain we should open up faster. It’s my OPINION. Science. Make a change. Measure a response. It is a fact that social distancing and sending all kids home from school has a cost. Angioplasties are down in Ohio. Did COVID cure heart disease or are people sitting at home with chest pain afraid to go to the hospital? Ask most teachers. Last year was a joke. Most kids went backwards. What happens if we have another year like that. Sure, teachers will innovate and find better ways to teach remotely, but that infrastructure doesn’t exist. Home schooling is labor intensive and requires involved parents. Ask a family that does it as a conscious choice. Now what about people who have no desire to do it? I’ll say this again. People die. I fight like hell every day to prevent it, but it is inevitable. The stats in Ohio show who is vulnerable. Do you throw away an entire year of a generation’s education for 3000 people (2400 of which were almost dead already)? I know that sounds harsh, but decisions like this are made everyday. Car companies weigh the cost of a recall versus the cost of the lawsuits if they leave the faulty part in the car. Politicians decide whether to send US citizens into harms way. It may be distasteful to some, but we have to weigh the costs.
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 11, 2020 5:59:33 GMT -5
And when I said open faster I’m not suggesting we all go to a Tribe game. I do believe that we need to be ready to start school and experimenting with some additional relaxation of social distancing this summer could have provided some data that would allow us to make better decisions. I also believe the educational value of athletics outweighs the risk. Both are my opinion.
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Post by redskinfan04 on Jul 11, 2020 7:34:19 GMT -5
You want to open faster? Our worst states right now (Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc) all opened up early and rapidly. How’s that working out for them right now? Last I saw the governor of Texas was openly considering another lockdown. The places that are spiking differ in one major way. I thought saying it twice would make it obvious. Population density. Rural Florida isn’t having a problem. Miami-Dade County is. And I don’t believe it is the beaches that are the problem. Outdoor transmission is extremely low. It’s high rise hotels. Like nursing homes and prisons it’s people stacked on people. I readily admit I’m not 100% certain we should open up faster. It’s my OPINION. Science. Make a change. Measure a response. It is a fact that social distancing and sending all kids home from school has a cost. Angioplasties are down in Ohio. Did COVID cure heart disease or are people sitting at home with chest pain afraid to go to the hospital? Ask most teachers. Last year was a joke. Most kids went backwards. What happens if we have another year like that. Sure, teachers will innovate and find better ways to teach remotely, but that infrastructure doesn’t exist. Home schooling is labor intensive and requires involved parents. Ask a family that does it as a conscious choice. Now what about people who have no desire to do it? I’ll say this again. People die. I fight like hell every day to prevent it, but it is inevitable. The stats in Ohio show who is vulnerable. Do you throw away an entire year of a generation’s education for 3000 people (2400 of which were almost dead already)? I know that sounds harsh, but decisions like this are made everyday. Car companies weigh the cost of a recall versus the cost of the lawsuits if they leave the faulty part in the car. Politicians decide whether to send US citizens into harms way. It may be distasteful to some, but we have to weigh the costs. Here’s the difference between me and you right now. I’m not willing to march people to their death’s for the sake of personal and economic connivence. It disgusts me when I see thought processes like yours. Those 3000 lives were people not statistics for you to coldly manipulate to serve your own self serving agenda.
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Post by dude on Jul 11, 2020 7:42:13 GMT -5
Please just remember that when you hear hospitalization stats you first know that many hospitals operate regularly at 50% capacity. This is how they make money or they close. In areas of the country with a high retirement rate, it is not uncommon for them to be closer to 85-90% on a regular basis. So when you hear some stats from Arizona, Texas and Florida keep that in mind. I’m well aware of everything that you said it’s common knowledge for those who wish to seek it. That you felt compelled to share it sheds light on how bad things actually are in those states. When you need to start picking apart and discrediting hospital numbers it’s a sure sign that there is a real heath problem going on. Actually you missed the point. When an Arizona hospital says they are at 98% capacity it sounds bad but when you know that regularly operate at 95% capacity it tells the true story. When a Florida hospital says they are at 71% capacity and they regularly operate at 68% capacity are you scared? The media is spinning facts. Don't fall for it.
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Post by fbfan on Jul 11, 2020 8:25:17 GMT -5
You want to open faster? Our worst states right now (Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc) all opened up early and rapidly. How’s that working out for them right now? Last I saw the governor of Texas was openly considering another lockdown. The places that are spiking differ in one major way. I thought saying it twice would make it obvious. Population density. Rural Florida isn’t having a problem. Miami-Dade County is. And I don’t believe it is the beaches that are the problem. Outdoor transmission is extremely low. It’s high rise hotels. Like nursing homes and prisons it’s people stacked on people. I readily admit I’m not 100% certain we should open up faster. It’s my OPINION. Science. Make a change. Measure a response. It is a fact that social distancing and sending all kids home from school has a cost. Angioplasties are down in Ohio. Did COVID cure heart disease or are people sitting at home with chest pain afraid to go to the hospital? Ask most teachers. Last year was a joke. Most kids went backwards. What happens if we have another year like that. Sure, teachers will innovate and find better ways to teach remotely, but that infrastructure doesn’t exist. Home schooling is labor intensive and requires involved parents. Ask a family that does it as a conscious choice. Now what about people who have no desire to do it? I’ll say this again. People die. I fight like hell every day to prevent it, but it is inevitable. The stats in Ohio show who is vulnerable. Do you throw away an entire year of a generation’s education for 3000 people (2400 of which were almost dead already)? I know that sounds harsh, but decisions like this are made everyday. Car companies weigh the cost of a recall versus the cost of the lawsuits if they leave the faulty part in the car. Politicians decide whether to send US citizens into harms way. It may be distasteful to some, but we have to weigh the costs. Thanx for your input fanofthegame. I think I tend to agree with you. I don't have a wealth of knowledge of the health care industry. That's why I'm looking for some stats to compare the covid stats to. I think it will be revealing to see what Americans have historically been willing to accept. When this all started, the "experts" were all talking numbers in the millions and I was also "on board". We've all seen they were wrong and have lied about some things to change our behavior. I'm wondering what else they're wrong about and have lied about. As President Trumps says, "the cure can't be worse than the problem".
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 11, 2020 8:51:46 GMT -5
The places that are spiking differ in one major way. I thought saying it twice would make it obvious. Population density. Rural Florida isn’t having a problem. Miami-Dade County is. And I don’t believe it is the beaches that are the problem. Outdoor transmission is extremely low. It’s high rise hotels. Like nursing homes and prisons it’s people stacked on people. I readily admit I’m not 100% certain we should open up faster. It’s my OPINION. Science. Make a change. Measure a response. It is a fact that social distancing and sending all kids home from school has a cost. Angioplasties are down in Ohio. Did COVID cure heart disease or are people sitting at home with chest pain afraid to go to the hospital? Ask most teachers. Last year was a joke. Most kids went backwards. What happens if we have another year like that. Sure, teachers will innovate and find better ways to teach remotely, but that infrastructure doesn’t exist. Home schooling is labor intensive and requires involved parents. Ask a family that does it as a conscious choice. Now what about people who have no desire to do it? I’ll say this again. People die. I fight like hell every day to prevent it, but it is inevitable. The stats in Ohio show who is vulnerable. Do you throw away an entire year of a generation’s education for 3000 people (2400 of which were almost dead already)? I know that sounds harsh, but decisions like this are made everyday. Car companies weigh the cost of a recall versus the cost of the lawsuits if they leave the faulty part in the car. Politicians decide whether to send US citizens into harms way. It may be distasteful to some, but we have to weigh the costs. Here’s the difference between me and you right now. I’m not willing to march people to their death’s for the sake of personal and economic connivence. It disgusts me when I see thought processes like yours. Those 3000 lives were people not statistics for you to coldly manipulate to serve your own self serving agenda. Let me paint this a different way. How much is a life worth? Is a 20 year old life more valuable than a 75 year old? The answer has to be yes. We all (including countries and societies) have finite resources. I want a Porsche, but I have tuition to pay. Do you know how much money we spend during the last two weeks of many people’s lives? At the same time we have kids that have no food at home, can’t get vaccinated, and go to crappy schools. Where is that money better spent? Making a futile attempt to save an elderly patient that even if they make it has months to a couple of years or educating, feeding, and vaccinating a five year old? There is a societal cost to the educational setback that occurred last year. That is a fact. You may not like thinking about it, but that doesn’t make it go away. I’ve dedicated my life to helping people stay healthy and trying to fix them when things break. I work just as hard if not harder on people who have brought some of their problems on themselves. I just live in the real world where tough decisions have to be made. I’m in the trenches. And I’m not asking anyone to do more than me. I was in full PPE this morning in a room seeing someone because their COVID test results weren’t back yet.
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Post by edchambers on Jul 11, 2020 9:28:04 GMT -5
I love how discussions about Jerry Snodgrass turn into debates about Covid-19.
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Post by fbfan on Jul 11, 2020 9:43:12 GMT -5
If not for Covid-19, Jerry Snodgrass would most likely still be IN, and no one would be talking about him.
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Post by sportsvideo on Jul 11, 2020 12:04:43 GMT -5
If not for Covid-19, Jerry Snodgrass would most likely still be IN, and no one would be talking about him. Covid 19 had nothing at all to do with Jerry's removal.. This has been an on going issue withing the working relationships at the OHSAA.. And they finally had enough and made a change... this interview with tim stried of the ohsaa sheds a little lite.. Jerry was causing tension with staff members
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Post by redskinfan04 on Jul 11, 2020 13:28:04 GMT -5
Here’s the difference between me and you right now. I’m not willing to march people to their death’s for the sake of personal and economic connivence. It disgusts me when I see thought processes like yours. Those 3000 lives were people not statistics for you to coldly manipulate to serve your own self serving agenda. Let me paint this a different way. How much is a life worth? Is a 20 year old life more valuable than a 75 year old? The answer has to be yes. We all (including countries and societies) have finite resources. I want a Porsche, but I have tuition to pay. Do you know how much money we spend during the last two weeks of many people’s lives? At the same time we have kids that have no food at home, can’t get vaccinated, and go to crappy schools. Where is that money better spent? Making a futile attempt to save an elderly patient that even if they make it has months to a couple of years or educating, feeding, and vaccinating a five year old? There is a societal cost to the educational setback that occurred last year. That is a fact. You may not like thinking about it, but that doesn’t make it go away. I’ve dedicated my life to helping people stay healthy and trying to fix them when things break. I work just as hard if not harder on people who have brought some of their problems on themselves. I just live in the real world where tough decisions have to be made. I’m in the trenches. And I’m not asking anyone to do more than me. I was in full PPE this morning in a room seeing someone because their COVID test results weren’t back yet. I see variants of this argument all the time. You are presenting a false choice for people when you present this without mentioning there is a proven other option. The kids in Europe are going to school getting their shots. The elderly across Europe are safe and cared for and European economies are back up and running all at a fraction of the deaths. How are they doing this? It’s not some magical formula that we can’t replicate. They wear masks, social distance and have aggressive track and trace systems for positive cases. If we did those three things better we could enjoy the same things the Europeans are doing without having to make the “choices” you are talking about.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 11, 2020 13:48:20 GMT -5
The places that are spiking differ in one major way. I thought saying it twice would make it obvious. Population density. Rural Florida isn’t having a problem. Miami-Dade County is. And I don’t believe it is the beaches that are the problem. Outdoor transmission is extremely low. It’s high rise hotels. Like nursing homes and prisons it’s people stacked on people. I readily admit I’m not 100% certain we should open up faster. It’s my OPINION. Science. Make a change. Measure a response. It is a fact that social distancing and sending all kids home from school has a cost. Angioplasties are down in Ohio. Did COVID cure heart disease or are people sitting at home with chest pain afraid to go to the hospital? Ask most teachers. Last year was a joke. Most kids went backwards. What happens if we have another year like that. Sure, teachers will innovate and find better ways to teach remotely, but that infrastructure doesn’t exist. Home schooling is labor intensive and requires involved parents. Ask a family that does it as a conscious choice. Now what about people who have no desire to do it? I’ll say this again. People die. I fight like hell every day to prevent it, but it is inevitable. The stats in Ohio show who is vulnerable. Do you throw away an entire year of a generation’s education for 3000 people (2400 of which were almost dead already)? I know that sounds harsh, but decisions like this are made everyday. Car companies weigh the cost of a recall versus the cost of the lawsuits if they leave the faulty part in the car. Politicians decide whether to send US citizens into harms way. It may be distasteful to some, but we have to weigh the costs. Here’s the difference between me and you right now. I’m not willing to march people to their death’s for the sake of personal and economic connivence. It disgusts me when I see thought processes like yours. Those 3000 lives were people not statistics for you to coldly manipulate to serve your own self serving agenda. Those people you speak of are ignorant or they have ignorant friends and relatives. If one is over 70 or under 70 with conditions that make them vulnerable, they should have educated themselves on the dangers of the virus and how it spreads. Friends or relatives should know who's at risk, if so they didn't care whom they might give the virus. ONE MUST be intelligent.....if not they killed themselves or their relatives/friends killed them Until there's a vaccine.... Stay at home PERIOD. Have your groceries delivered. Stay away from friends and relatives. I don't give a shat what politicians say. I KNOW what/who can possibly kill me. If not, it's akin to committing suicide.
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Post by fanofthegame on Jul 11, 2020 16:04:20 GMT -5
Let me paint this a different way. How much is a life worth? Is a 20 year old life more valuable than a 75 year old? The answer has to be yes. We all (including countries and societies) have finite resources. I want a Porsche, but I have tuition to pay. Do you know how much money we spend during the last two weeks of many people’s lives? At the same time we have kids that have no food at home, can’t get vaccinated, and go to crappy schools. Where is that money better spent? Making a futile attempt to save an elderly patient that even if they make it has months to a couple of years or educating, feeding, and vaccinating a five year old? There is a societal cost to the educational setback that occurred last year. That is a fact. You may not like thinking about it, but that doesn’t make it go away. I’ve dedicated my life to helping people stay healthy and trying to fix them when things break. I work just as hard if not harder on people who have brought some of their problems on themselves. I just live in the real world where tough decisions have to be made. I’m in the trenches. And I’m not asking anyone to do more than me. I was in full PPE this morning in a room seeing someone because their COVID test results weren’t back yet. I see variants of this argument all the time. You are presenting a false choice for people when you present this without mentioning there is a proven other option. The kids in Europe are going to school getting their shots. The elderly across Europe are safe and cared for and European economies are back up and running all at a fraction of the deaths. How are they doing this? It’s not some magical formula that we can’t replicate. They wear masks, social distance and have aggressive track and trace systems for positive cases. If we did those three things better we could enjoy the same things the Europeans are doing without having to make the “choices” you are talking about. Where did I say we open up more aggressively without masks? I suggested 1/2 time in person school so they can more easily maintain 6 feet separation. I said game attendees should maintain the same restrictions as church. I test symptomatic people every day and quarantine them until results are available. Every positive patient I’ve had has undergone contact tracing. What I’m saying is if we had opened up a little more aggressively we’d have data with which to make future decisions. Nobody said game attendance is mandatory. Everyone can choose whether they want to take the risk. If I were 65 with a thirty pack-year smoking history or a 60 year old obese diabetic I’d stay home. Should we throw away another year of school to protect teenagers that might get the sniffles? 600 hundred non-nursing home patients in Ohio have died from this.
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