|
Post by jayhawk on Jul 5, 2021 21:24:38 GMT -5
Bighoss Ohio not even close anymore to d1 football talent compared to southern states. Lived in Georgia recently football is on a different level spring high school etc. its 24/7 football talent and population galore. love ohio etc but pure numbers suggest otherwise
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 5, 2021 22:52:59 GMT -5
Fact of the matter, Coach Meyer, Coach Day and most all of Ohio's college coaches have advocated spring football for quite some time. Those guys fully understand the developmental deficit the kids in this state must endure, when competing for scholarships, against out of state athletes.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 6, 2021 9:48:30 GMT -5
Urban also wanted to see high school football players playing other sports in the winter and spring.
Vermont allows 4 days, Alabama 10 days. I can not see what huge advantage that is. JMO, but its better to see athletes, running track or playing baseball for 3 months. The most any state allows in 20 days, still nothing close to 90 days of a regular spring sport. In which there's a lot of lifting, running, jumping, eye hand coordination and actual competition multiple times in each of the 12 weeks.
|
|
|
Post by DrTorch on Jul 6, 2021 11:27:27 GMT -5
"All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." Gotta play multiple sports as a youth. It is good for the mind and the body.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 6, 2021 13:59:19 GMT -5
Urban also wanted to see high school football players playing other sports in the winter and spring. Vermont allows 4 days, Alabama 10 days. I can not see what huge advantage that is. JMO, but its better to see athletes, running track or playing baseball for 3 months. The most any state allows in 20 days, still nothing close to 90 days of a regular spring sport. In which there's a lot of lifting, running, jumping, eye hand coordination and actual competition multiple times in each of the 12 weeks. Florida spring ball begins in late april (April 26th to May 14th this year) 15 practices are permitted and then one game. Spring session concludes with a regulation game against an opponent of their choosing. Individual participating schools is voluntary. Texas spring ball permits 18 practices, 12 of which is full contact. Only 3 practices are permitted over the 34 day period. Concludes with an annual spring game. Georgia spring ball are allowed 10 spring practices in a 13-day span starting in February of each year. Participating schools have the option to make the 10th practice a regulation game, against a chosen opponent. One of the top high school coaches in Florida said; "Spring ball builds a foundation for the fall season".
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 6, 2021 17:38:08 GMT -5
20 days of half way football is not as good as 90 days of a complete competitive sport season. In which similar if not the same lifting, strength conditioning, running, cutting, jumping and eye/hand coordination is done. In essence the same foundation, done for 90 days instead of 20. Of course a prejudiced coach would say that.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 6, 2021 18:14:21 GMT -5
20 days of half way football is not as good as 90 days of a complete competitive sport season. In which similar if not the same lifting, strength conditioning, running, cutting, jumping and eye/hand coordination is done. In essence the same foundation, done for 90 days instead of 20. Of course a prejudiced coach would say that. I agree it is not as good as 90 days of conditioning. One must understand that spring ball is not so much about conditioning, but acclamating, organizing, orienting, familiarizing, getting started on playbooks. Especially for the younger kids. Over four years the pluses has a compounding affect. When they enter two-a-days, they are more advanced than athletes in states that don't have spring ball yet.....I repeat....YET. One thing that most everyone familiar with high school football recruiting, it has changed the recruiting map. I love Ohio h.s. football, the state has great facilities and produces outstanding athletes year in and year out. Think we will be seeing this eventuality sooner, rather than later.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Jul 6, 2021 21:16:58 GMT -5
I agree it is not as good as 90 days of conditioning. One must understand that spring ball is not so much about conditioning, but acclamating, organizing, orienting, familiarizing, getting started on playbooks. Especially for the younger kids. Over four years the pluses has a compounding affect. When they enter two-a-days, they are more advanced than athletes in states that don't have spring ball yet.....I repeat....YET. One thing that most everyone familiar with high school football recruiting, it has changed the recruiting map. I love Ohio h.s. football, the state has great facilities and produces outstanding athletes year in and year out. Think we will be seeing this eventuality sooner, rather than later. In dealing with this, it is part of the reason for the unlimited contact allowed this summer. OHSAA does not support the idea of Spring football but they have given in to the idea of increased summer contact to close the gap you speak of.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 7, 2021 5:53:58 GMT -5
I agree it is not as good as 90 days of conditioning. One must understand that spring ball is not so much about conditioning, but acclamating, organizing, orienting, familiarizing, getting started on playbooks. Especially for the younger kids. Over four years the pluses has a compounding affect. When they enter two-a-days, they are more advanced than athletes in states that don't have spring ball yet.....I repeat....YET. One thing that most everyone familiar with high school football recruiting, it has changed the recruiting map. I love Ohio h.s. football, the state has great facilities and produces outstanding athletes year in and year out. Think we will be seeing this eventuality sooner, rather than later. In dealing with this, it is part of the reason for the unlimited contact allowed this summer. OHSAA does not support the idea of Spring football but they have given in to the idea of increased summer contact to close the gap you speak of. Very good point. I think, eventually the OHSAA will come around to the reality that has been facing them for quite some time. The only question is, when.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 7, 2021 9:38:18 GMT -5
20 days of half way football is not as good as 90 days of a complete competitive sport season. In which similar if not the same lifting, strength conditioning, running, cutting, jumping and eye/hand coordination is done. In essence the same foundation, done for 90 days instead of 20. Of course a prejudiced coach would say that. I agree it is not as good as 90 days of conditioning. One must understand that spring ball is not so much about conditioning, but acclamating, organizing, orienting, familiarizing, getting started on playbooks. Especially for the younger kids. Over four years the pluses has a compounding affect. When they enter two-a-days, they are more advanced than athletes in states that don't have spring ball yet.....I repeat....YET. One thing that most everyone familiar with high school football recruiting, it has changed the recruiting map. I love Ohio h.s. football, the state has great facilities and produces outstanding athletes year in and year out. Think we will be seeing this eventuality sooner, rather than later. Name an Ohio football player that did not get a scholarship due to no spring football. Name a football player from a state that has spring football that got a scholarship, but would not have gotten one if he was in a state that did not have spring football. Learning a playbook? When I was a Sophomore I had memorized what all 11 players did on every play on offense and what all eleven players keys were on defense. We all got a playbook when we were Freshmen and I wanted to be a starter on offense and defense when a Sophomore. Did not need spring football to accomplish that.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 7, 2021 12:18:01 GMT -5
I agree it is not as good as 90 days of conditioning. One must understand that spring ball is not so much about conditioning, but acclamating, organizing, orienting, familiarizing, getting started on playbooks. Especially for the younger kids. Over four years the pluses has a compounding affect. When they enter two-a-days, they are more advanced than athletes in states that don't have spring ball yet.....I repeat....YET. One thing that most everyone familiar with high school football recruiting, it has changed the recruiting map. I love Ohio h.s. football, the state has great facilities and produces outstanding athletes year in and year out. Think we will be seeing this eventuality sooner, rather than later. Name an Ohio football player that did not get a scholarship due to no spring football. Name a football player from a state that has spring football that got a scholarship, but would not have gotten one if he was in a state that did not have spring football. Learning a playbook? When I was a Sophomore I had memorized what all 11 players did on every play on offense and what all eleven players keys were on defense. We all got a playbook when we were Freshmen and I wanted to be a starter on offense and defense when a Sophomore. Did not need spring football to accomplish that. I have no problem, if Ohio chooses to be the odd man out and stick with the old school, status quo, but there is a clear advantage to having a second training season. For me personally, I thoroughly enjoy attending spring games in Florida. The stands are full, the fans are loud and enthusiastic, the players are pumped and go at it full bore four quarters. Certainly, unlike the regimented and controlled scrimmages we are accustomed to, here in Ohio. Finally, I apologize for taking this Ohio State thread, off topic
|
|
|
Post by dude on Jul 7, 2021 12:53:01 GMT -5
Name an Ohio football player that did not get a scholarship due to no spring football. Name a football player from a state that has spring football that got a scholarship, but would not have gotten one if he was in a state that did not have spring football. Learning a playbook? When I was a Sophomore I had memorized what all 11 players did on every play on offense and what all eleven players keys were on defense. We all got a playbook when we were Freshmen and I wanted to be a starter on offense and defense when a Sophomore. Did not need spring football to accomplish that. I have no problem, if Ohio chooses to be the odd man out and stick with the old school, status quo, but there is a clear advantage to having a second training season. For me personally, I thoroughly enjoy attending spring games in Florida. The stands are full, the fans are loud and enthusiastic, the players are pumped and go at it full bore four quarters. Certainly, unlike the regimented and controlled scrimmages we are accustomed to, here in Ohio. Finally, I apologize for taking this Ohio State thread, off topic Is spring football in Florida listed as "flag football"? And are not most of the schools in Florida much larger schools than we have in Ohio?
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 7, 2021 13:23:35 GMT -5
I have no problem, if Ohio chooses to be the odd man out and stick with the old school, status quo, but there is a clear advantage to having a second training season. For me personally, I thoroughly enjoy attending spring games in Florida. The stands are full, the fans are loud and enthusiastic, the players are pumped and go at it full bore four quarters. Certainly, unlike the regimented and controlled scrimmages we are accustomed to, here in Ohio. Finally, I apologize for taking this Ohio State thread, off topic Is spring football in Florida listed as "flag football"? And are not most of the schools in Florida much larger schools than we have in Ohio? No, it's full contact football and they classifications based on size, much like Ohio. 8A: 2,356+ 7A: 2,355 – 1,924 6A: 1,923 – 1,582 5A: 1,581 – 1,137 4A: 1,136 – 740 3A: 739 – 361 2A: 360 & below 1A: 600 & below and Rural Designation The FHSAA pretty much runs the show, when it comes to scheduling. They redraw district and regional boundaries each year. Leagues like we have in Ohio, don't exist. The FHSAA determines most of the scheduling and there are only a couple open spots on the yearly schedule for rivalry games. So, you look at District standings instead of League, or Conference standings. Schools start the season with the goal of winning the District Championship. That basically sucks. I'm still in the stage of figuring things out, because there is a long list of school districts that choose to designate themselves as 'independents', Among them is IMG Academy, other prep academies and a long list of Catholic schools and private schools, although there are parochial schools that play in the FHSAA framework. I think, in general, stadiums are much nicer in Ohio and average crowds at Friday night FB games are better attended in Ohio.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Jul 7, 2021 14:07:17 GMT -5
The only football I saw listed for spring on their site was flag football.
Division - Enrollment I - 604 and more II - 378 - 603 III - 272 - 377 IV - 209 - 271 V - 163 - 208 VI - 122 - 162 VII - 121 and less
Not exactly much like Ohio. Having a faction of the boys in a school makes spring football more difficult if you place any value on track and baseball.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 7, 2021 15:43:06 GMT -5
The only football I saw listed for spring on their site was flag football. Division - Enrollment I - 604 and more II - 378 - 603 III - 272 - 377 IV - 209 - 271 V - 163 - 208 VI - 122 - 162 VII - 121 and less Not exactly much like Ohio. Having a faction of the boys in a school makes spring football more difficult if you place any value on track and baseball. I don't think it would be doable for small schools in Ohio, but the larger schools would be all over it. A lot of schools never enacted soccer for that very reason. There's only so many athletes to go around.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Jul 7, 2021 16:12:10 GMT -5
The only football I saw listed for spring on their site was flag football. Division - Enrollment I - 604 and more II - 378 - 603 III - 272 - 377 IV - 209 - 271 V - 163 - 208 VI - 122 - 162 VII - 121 and less Not exactly much like Ohio. Having a faction of the boys in a school makes spring football more difficult if you place any value on track and baseball. I don't think it would be doable for small schools in Ohio, but the larger schools would be all over it. A lot of schools never enacted soccer for that very reason. There's only so many athletes to go around. If we are looking at the same enrollment numbers, most schools in Ohio are small compared to what Florida has.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 7, 2021 18:57:50 GMT -5
I don't think it would be doable for small schools in Ohio, but the larger schools would be all over it. A lot of schools never enacted soccer for that very reason. There's only so many athletes to go around. If we are looking at the same enrollment numbers, most schools in Ohio are small compared to what Florida has. It is student population, but I think it looks much larger, because they use the entire student population vs. only the boys in Ohio. I'm guessing, the numbers would not be a whole lot different, if they both used the same formula. What has me scratching my head is, 'rural designation' and 600 or less for Div. 1A.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Jul 7, 2021 22:27:03 GMT -5
If we are looking at the same enrollment numbers, most schools in Ohio are small compared to what Florida has. It is student population, but I think it looks much larger, because they use the entire student population vs. only the boys in Ohio. I'm guessing, the numbers would not be a whole lot different, if they both used the same formula. What has me scratching my head is, 'rural designation' and 600 or less for Div. 1A. Understood, but a large high school in Ohio may have 1200 and all of those schools would be in the largest school division that is only made up of 71 schools out of 709 total schools. In Florida, using your numbers, half of the divisions are made of of schools larger than that. Trying to say what works for some school in Florida can work in Ohio is not supported since the schools are so different.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 8, 2021 6:07:14 GMT -5
Full contact, spring football is conducted in 24 states and has been a hot topic in Ohio for the past 10 years. Is it in Ohio's best interest, is the big question and at the center of the debate. I'm wondering what the average enrollment in Texas, Alabama, Georgia, California, or the other participating states compares. The fact of the matter is, it's a growing trend in today's prep football world. This is a pretty insightful, Toledo Blade feature story on the subject: www.toledoblade.com/sports/high-school/2020/03/31/Is-spring-high-school-football-coming-to-Ohio/stories/20200331112
|
|
|
Post by dude on Jul 8, 2021 6:26:08 GMT -5
I'm not saying the idea of spring football in high school is a bad idea, unless we are talking about high school baseball and track. With Ohio school enrollments, something would have to decline and suffer.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Jul 8, 2021 6:27:03 GMT -5
When do the Buckeyes begin official practice?
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 8, 2021 9:21:35 GMT -5
When do the Buckeyes begin official practice? Ohio State Announces Practice Schedule For Fall Camp| While fall camp remains closed to the media until further notice, Ohio State announced its practice schedule and full roster Friday afternoon. After the Buckeyes began day one of training camp in the morning with a 9:30 a.m. workout at the Woody Hayes Athletic Center in helmets and shorts on the outdoor grass fields, OSU released its 25-day slate of practices in preparation for the Sept. 1 noon kickoff inside Ohio Stadium against Oregon State. For the weekend, Ohio State continues fall camp with practices Saturday and Sunday. Following a break from the action Monday, the Buckeyes resume practice Tuesday at the Woody Hayes Athletic Center and put on full pads Wednesday before they switch locations Thursday to the grass fields at Coffey Road Park. OSU is scheduled to be at the Woody Hayes Athletic Center across Aug. 3-4-5-7-8-20-21-22-23-24-25- 27-28-29-30-31 and Coffey Road Park between Aug. 9-10-11-13-14-15-16-17-18. Ohio State begins its fall semester Aug. 21.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 8, 2021 9:29:34 GMT -5
I'm not saying the idea of spring football in high school is a bad idea, unless we are talking about high school baseball and track. With Ohio school enrollments, something would have to decline and suffer. I'm good with whatever is decided. I do recognize that the Ohio High School Football Coaches Association has been lobbying for spring ball. Perhaps with Jerry Snodgrass out as commissioner of the OHSAA, who was an outspoken critic of spring ball, things will move forward....we shall see. Whatever materializes, I will be watching with great interest. Finally, I ask this question: Is there any interest in removing college football spring ball?......lol Think we all know the answer to that one.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Jul 8, 2021 9:58:40 GMT -5
I'm not saying the idea of spring football in high school is a bad idea, unless we are talking about high school baseball and track. With Ohio school enrollments, something would have to decline and suffer. I'm good with whatever is decided. I do recognize that the Ohio High School Football Coaches Association has been lobbying for spring ball. Perhaps with Jerry Snodgrass out as commissioner of the OHSAA, who was an outspoken critic of spring ball, things will move forward....we shall see. Whatever materializes, I will be watching with great interest. Finally, I ask this question: Is there any interest in removing college football spring ball?......lol Think we all know the answer to that one. Football coach may be for it but all other spring coaches are not. Jerry may be gone as an outspoken critic of spring ball, but Doug is just as interested in doing the right thing for ALL high school sports in Ohio. College sports players are typically at that school to play ONE sport. I do not have the stat but my guess is a majority of high school players are in multiple sports. So increasing a single high school sport's season would directly affect other sports. My guess is this is the main reason this has not been accepted.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 8, 2021 11:04:09 GMT -5
I'm good with whatever is decided. I do recognize that the Ohio High School Football Coaches Association has been lobbying for spring ball. Perhaps with Jerry Snodgrass out as commissioner of the OHSAA, who was an outspoken critic of spring ball, things will move forward....we shall see. Whatever materializes, I will be watching with great interest. Finally, I ask this question: Is there any interest in removing college football spring ball?......lol Think we all know the answer to that one. Football coach may be for it but all other spring coaches are not. Jerry may be gone as an outspoken critic of spring ball, but Doug is just as interested in doing the right thing for ALL high school sports in Ohio. College sports players are typically at that school to play ONE sport. I do not have the stat but my guess is a majority of high school players are in multiple sports. So increasing a single high school sport's season would directly affect other sports. My guess is this is the main reason this has not been accepted. So, you agree football players & their coaches should have that option. Once it has become available, the local districts can act as what's best for their district. Improving the quality of the product is always a good endeavor.
|
|
|
Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 8, 2021 11:19:57 GMT -5
Football coaches will do anything to increase their power and financial well being. I'm sure football coaches will want increased pay since they'll be coaching in 2 seasons.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Jul 8, 2021 13:02:14 GMT -5
Football coach may be for it but all other spring coaches are not. Jerry may be gone as an outspoken critic of spring ball, but Doug is just as interested in doing the right thing for ALL high school sports in Ohio. College sports players are typically at that school to play ONE sport. I do not have the stat but my guess is a majority of high school players are in multiple sports. So increasing a single high school sport's season would directly affect other sports. My guess is this is the main reason this has not been accepted. So, you agree football players & their coaches should have that option. Once it has become available, the local districts can act as what's best for their district. Improving the quality of the product is always a good endeavor. No I don't. I don't think they need that option. I think what they are doing now is just fine. But if it were to change I would not be bothered by it other than feeling said that a kid had to make a choice between another sport he enjoys. Have you considered all of the talented baseball and track kids that play football as a good athlete for a second sport and are needed to fill out the football roster. Most of your skilled positions have great high school careers and earn college offers in baseball and track.
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 8, 2021 13:06:37 GMT -5
Football coaches will do anything to increase their power and financial well being. I'm sure football coaches will want increased pay since they'll be coaching in 2 seasons. They also fully understand if they improve the product they put on the field, so does the improvement in win/loss column. And as you allude, come contract tiem, they will be rewarded.
|
|
|
Post by dude on Jul 8, 2021 13:09:36 GMT -5
Football coaches will do anything to increase their power and financial well being. I'm sure football coaches will want increased pay since they'll be coaching in 2 seasons. They also fully understand if they improve the product they put on the field, so does the improvement in win/loss column. And as you allude, come contract tiem, they will be rewarded. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Do you really think a teachers union will vote to increase the football coach's supplemental pay?
|
|
|
Post by sportsjock on Jul 8, 2021 13:18:00 GMT -5
So, you agree football players & their coaches should have that option. Once it has become available, the local districts can act as what's best for their district. Improving the quality of the product is always a good endeavor. No I don't. I don't think they need that option. I think what they are doing now is just fine. But if it were to change I would not be bothered by it other than feeling said that a kid had to make a choice between another sport he enjoys. Have you considered all of the talented baseball and track kids that play football as a good athlete for a second sport and are needed to fill out the football roster. Most of your skilled positions have great high school careers and earn college offers in baseball and track. I respect your opinion and that's why there is a rather heated debate going on in Ohio. I won't be upset in the least, either way. As for your last paragraph, you hit on a very good point, We fully understand, this is the era of specialization, it is quite common to see a kid forsake all other sports and focus on the sport they excell in. I saw that first hand, quite a few years back, where a very good friend of mine's son was an elite sprinter, turning in some of the fastest times in the state in the 100 & 200 meter dash. He was an aspiring football player as well, but pulled out of football his freshman year to focus and train year around on sprinting. Few develop careers in track & field, but baseball offers a wealth of opportunities.
|
|