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Post by sportsjock on Aug 5, 2017 13:23:36 GMT -5
Like I stated above.....not a word of concern from the libs. So now we are going to credit victims of cartel violence to the "illegal immigration" as well. You can't possibly be so simplistic or naive to really believe they are the same thing. A million "stories" but relatively few documented accounts in comparison. If you think a wall is going to do one d a m n thing to curtail the drug trade then clearly you are a contributing cause of our drug epidemic. Again, show me the data to suggest that this current wave of immigrants is any more prone to criminal behavior than those that preceded them.I know it is a microcosm, but you basically proved my point. Little concern for the victims of the criminal element crossing our borders illegally, many of whom were serving our country to protect our borders. The list of brave men murdered in the line of duty the past 13 years is 37, because I know you would not give the list any homage. "Than those that preceded them"........what? Bottom line is, who the hell side are you on? You don't have to answer that one, because we all know where your sympathies lie. 1. You don't want our nations borders protected and secure. 2. You want anyone that has the inclination to cross our borders, the ability to do so unimpeded, with no legal implications or arrests for violating our laws. (Certainly, no wall to deter their efforts) 3. You are against deportation of illegals. 4. You want amnesty for all the illegals now in our country. 5. You want them awarded all the benefits necessary to maintain a comfortable existence in our society, at taxpayers expense. 6. You are opposed to reasonable requirements to learn and speak our English language. 7. You support sanctuary cities, states and protectionist sanctuaries anywhere that shield these intruders from our Federal laws, even shields the criminals. 8. Most importantly, you want to fast-track these people to citizenship and to the voting booths.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 14:23:52 GMT -5
You guys sure come up with a lot of excuses. It's a humanitarian effort, and in any large scale event like that bad things and bad people are going to slip through. It's the price we all have to pay to be decent human beings and world citizens. I'm sure when my family and your family emigrated to the United States some bad apples came over with them. Hello Italian mob.
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Post by tommygunn on Aug 5, 2017 15:38:10 GMT -5
"than a Phrenologist could decipher the encephalitic lumps on sportsjock's water-filled head." I love it.......LOL How can you hate somebody like that? hey, i could have referred to you and your family as rats so spare me the indignation, please...we're way past the phony crap You are really good at pointing out people's talking points, but fail to realize half of what you post is nothing short of an attack. It was a comparison using rats. Are you now the PC type, snowflake that gets offended by everything? I think so.
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Post by tommygunn on Aug 5, 2017 15:43:06 GMT -5
Well the wall is going to go up. 1.6B dollar down payment to start building in the more susceptible areas.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 5, 2017 15:45:24 GMT -5
feel safer now?
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 5, 2017 15:47:48 GMT -5
LINK me to this great wall, i wanna see your source
CRACKED magazine and The Onion don't count.
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Post by galion on Aug 5, 2017 15:48:24 GMT -5
So now we are going to credit victims of cartel violence to the "illegal immigration" as well. You can't possibly be so simplistic or naive to really believe they are the same thing. A million "stories" but relatively few documented accounts in comparison. If you think a wall is going to do one d a m n thing to curtail the drug trade then clearly you are a contributing cause of our drug epidemic. Again, show me the data to suggest that this current wave of immigrants is any more prone to criminal behavior than those that preceded them.I know it is a microcosm, but you basically proved my point. Little concern for the victims of the criminal element crossing our borders illegally, many of whom were serving our country to protect our borders. The list of brave men murdered in the line of duty the past 13 years is 37, because I know you would not give the list any homage. "Than those that preceded them"........what? Bottom line is, who the hell side are you on? You don't have to answer that one, because we all know where your sympathies lie. 1. You don't want our nations borders protected and secure. 2. You want anyone that has the inclination to cross our borders, the ability to do so unimpeded, with no legal implications or arrests for violating our laws. (Certainly, no wall to deter their efforts) 3. You are against deportation of illegals. 4. You want amnesty for all the illegals now in our country. 5. You want them awarded all the benefits necessary to maintain a comfortable existence in our society, at taxpayers expense. 6. You are opposed to reasonable requirements to learn and speak our English language. 7. You support sanctuary cities, states and protectionist sanctuaries anywhere that shield these intruders from our Federal laws, even shields the criminals. 8. Most importantly, you want to fast-track these people to citizenship and to the voting booths. Actually you just proved my point. You just admitted that the criminal offenders are a "microcosm". Those border officers weren't killed by migrant workers. For you to infer that the migrant workers are somehow a danger to our safety or our sovereignty is a disingenuous argument at best and deceitful at its core. I suppose that I should waste my time now and respond point by point so here we go 1. I want or border protected from actual threats. Refugees and immigrants don't qualify as actual threats. 2. Anyone who wants to enter this country to work, start a new life, or simply to go on vacation shouldn't have to jump through anymore hoops than our ancestors did. 3. I don't agree that they should be illegal in the first place. 4. Obviously. If they are working and paying taxes they should be allowed to stay because they have shown the ability to contribute to our society just as you and I have. 5. See above. Where did I ever say let's bring them in and put them on wellfare? I thought the issue was that they are depressing wages and taking jobs away from Americans make up your d a m n mind. 6. That's never been a requirement before why are you making it one now? Every wave of immigrants before has eventually learned the language. There were regiments made up of immigrants in the Civil War made up entirely of immigrants who spoke no English at all. Learn your history. 7. If you give them the same reasonable path to citizenship that our forefathers had there would be no sanctuary cities. 8. If they are citizens then they should be able to vote.
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Post by galion on Aug 5, 2017 15:53:31 GMT -5
hey, i could have referred to you and your family as rats so spare me the indignation, please...we're way past the phony crap You are really good at pointing out people's blatant lies and misrepresentations, but fail to realize half of what you post is nothing short of an attack. It was a comparison using rats. Are you now the PC type, snowflake that gets offended by everything? I think so. It's fixed now.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Aug 5, 2017 16:22:10 GMT -5
The unemployment rate is down to 4.3%, the lowest in 16 years. That means there are 7 MILLION people who don't have jobs. There CAN NOT be a labor shortage. Across the country, every day a bunch of people looking for work stand at known street corners waiting for illegal employers to pick them up. Not all get picked up. There is not a shortage. EXCEPT the shortage for SKILLED labor and trades. Uneducated unskilled illegal immigrants can't fill those jobs.
Don't spew the BS about people won't do some jobs. The hell they won't, if the jobs paid enough money. I don't know what the wage is that will cause people to fight over those jobs. But The Law of Supply and Demand SHOULD find the correct level of pay. However, ILLEGAL employers would rather pay an embarrassing low wage to people other than US citizens. They whine that they can't pay more, they couldn't compete. The heck they couldn't. If one company in an industry pays a higher wage. Everyone would come to work for them, and their competitors would have to pay more to get people to work for them. Supply and Demand. Instead we have TRUE collusion by owners of companies who only hire people who are not US citizens.
When I worked for Electrolux we had a plant in Mexico just across the border in Nogales. There were dozens of US companies that had plants in the vicinity. To get more workers someone would offer $.25 more per hour, the next day 100's would show up from the surrounding plants. Supply and Demand.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 5, 2017 16:29:16 GMT -5
I know it is a microcosm, but you basically proved my point. Little concern for the victims of the criminal element crossing our borders illegally, many of whom were serving our country to protect our borders. The list of brave men murdered in the line of duty the past 13 years is 37, because I know you would not give the list any homage. "Than those that preceded them"........what? Bottom line is, who the hell side are you on? You don't have to answer that one, because we all know where your sympathies lie. 1. You don't want our nations borders protected and secure. 2. You want anyone that has the inclination to cross our borders, the ability to do so unimpeded, with no legal implications or arrests for violating our laws. (Certainly, no wall to deter their efforts) 3. You are against deportation of illegals. 4. You want amnesty for all the illegals now in our country. 5. You want them awarded all the benefits necessary to maintain a comfortable existence in our society, at taxpayers expense. 6. You are opposed to reasonable requirements to learn and speak our English language. 7. You support sanctuary cities, states and protectionist sanctuaries anywhere that shield these intruders from our Federal laws, even shields the criminals. 8. Most importantly, you want to fast-track these people to citizenship and to the voting booths. Actually you just proved my point. You just admitted that the criminal offenders are a "microcosm". Those border officers weren't killed by migrant workers. For you to infer that the migrant workers are somehow a danger to our safety or our sovereignty is a disingenuous argument at best and deceitful at its core. I suppose that I should waste my time now and respond point by point so here we go 1. I want or border protected from actual threats. Refugees and immigrants don't qualify as actual threats. 2. Anyone who wants to enter this country to work, start a new life, or simply to go on vacation shouldn't have to jump through anymore hoops than our ancestors did. 3. I don't agree that they should be illegal in the first place. 4. Obviously. If they are working and paying taxes they should be allowed to stay because they have shown the ability to contribute to our society just as you and I have. 5. See above. Where did I ever say let's bring them in and put them on wellfare? I thought the issue was that they are depressing wages and taking jobs away from Americans make up your d a m n mind. 6. That's never been a requirement before why are you making it one now? Every wave of immigrants before has eventually learned the language. There were regiments made up of immigrants in the Civil War made up entirely of immigrants who spoke no English at all. Learn your history. 7. If you give them the same reasonable path to citizenship that our forefathers had there would be no sanctuary cities. 8. If they are citizens then they should be able to vote. Actually, I was referring to you as a microcosm of the larger liberal mindset. No one suggested our fallen border patrol agents were murdered by migrant workers. Remember, migrant workers basically come though the front door, each and every year. They are good, honest hard working people and not part of the problem. Again, no where did I infer or imply migrant workers. So now, we are calling illegal aliens 'refugees', that's a new twist. Refugees from what? I know, the grass is always greener logic. I have many Hispanic friends, good people that would help you in an instant notice, their parents came to this country legally, to imply those avenues are not available is rather dishonest. "Obviously. If they are working and paying taxes they should be allowed to stay because they have shown the ability to contribute to our society just as you and I have." You and I have found a point of agreement. As far as I know, nobody is advocating a wholesale eviction of the entire population of illegals in this country. What the president and others are advocating is identifying and expelling the criminal element, especially criminal gang members. Few reasonable minds could argue against that. "Where did I ever say let's bring them in and put them on wellfare?" - No, you did not. Again, immigrants today do have the same reasonable path to citizenship. A multitude of reasons why many choose the path of least resistance, invading our porous border.....after all, there's no wall to worry about. "If they are citizens then they should be able to vote" - again, we agree on something. But, they need to go through the citizenship process like anyone else, not simply by decree.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 5, 2017 16:36:46 GMT -5
There can not be a "labor shortage" if the unemployment rate is 4.3%. That means there are 7 MILLION people who don't have jobs. Across the country, every day a bunch of people looking for work stand at known street corners waiting for illegal employers to pick them up. Not all get picked up. There is not a shortage. EXCEPT the shortage for SKILLED labor and trades. Uneducated unskilled illegal immigrants can't fill those jobs. With the exploding heroin epidemic ravaging our nation, and drug testing an integral element in the hiring process at most places of employment, subtract that from your '7 million people who don't have jobs', dramatically changes the perspective. I recently read a feature story in the Wall Street Journal concerning the 'labor shortage in America', in which it was pointed out the immigrant population is averting an immediate, nationwide crisis in the job market.
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 5, 2017 17:14:57 GMT -5
You guys sure come up with a lot of excuses. It's a humanitarian effort, and in any large scale event like that bad things and bad people are going to slip through. It's the price we all have to pay to be decent human beings and world citizens. I'm sure when my family and your family emigrated to the United States some bad apples came over with them. Hello Italian mob. I've heard people use the term "world citizen" but I don't have a clue as to what it means. Can you give me a working definition? Is it the same as saying "human being". Or is it just a way of hoping for a one-world government?
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 5, 2017 18:08:10 GMT -5
i've heard people use the word "American"
South Americans are Americans eh?
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 5, 2017 18:12:06 GMT -5
The unemployment rate is down to 4.3%, the lowest in 16 years. That means there are 7 MILLION people who don't have jobs. There CAN NOT be a labor shortage. Across the country, every day a bunch of people looking for work stand at known street corners waiting for illegal employers to pick them up. Not all get picked up. There is not a shortage. EXCEPT the shortage for SKILLED labor and trades. Uneducated unskilled illegal immigrants can't fill those jobs. Don't spew the BS about people won't do some jobs. The hell they won't, if the jobs paid enough money. I don't know what the wage is that will cause people to fight over those jobs. But The Law of Supply and Demand SHOULD find the correct level of pay. However, ILLEGAL employers would rather pay an embarrassing low wage to people other than US citizens. They whine that they can't pay more, they couldn't compete. The heck they couldn't. If one company in an industry pays a higher wage. Everyone would come to work for them, and their competitors would have to pay more to get people to work for them. Supply and Demand. Instead we have TRUE collusion by owners of companies who only hire people who are not US citizens. When I worked for Electrolux we had a plant in Mexico just across the border in Nogales. There were dozens of US companies that had plants in the vicinity. To get more workers someone would offer $.25 more per hour, the next day 100's would show up from the surrounding plants. Supply and Demand. Fillmore if Unions could exploit that market for higher wages they would have already. Again, what is this magic wage? All the posters here berating illegals lowering the wages for real 'Mericans are the same ones who scoffed at a $15hr minimum wage. Would you white kids pick radishes for $15/hour? That's more than I pay most of my employees but I don't think they would be interested.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 18:38:41 GMT -5
You guys sure come up with a lot of excuses. It's a humanitarian effort, and in any large scale event like that bad things and bad people are going to slip through. It's the price we all have to pay to be decent human beings and world citizens. I'm sure when my family and your family emigrated to the United States some bad apples came over with them. Hello Italian mob. I've heard people use the term "world citizen" but I don't have a clue as to what it means. Can you give me a working definition? Is it the same as saying "human being". Or is it just a way of hoping for a one-world government? It means trying to help the rest of world with the might and resources that the United States has. It's a win-win. If we can educate and build up other nations then we have more trade partners and less global instability. In my opinion that means letting foreigners, both skilled and unskilled in to America to better themselves. Those foreigners will always have a connection to where they came from and want to better it. If they are able to provide for their families and feel secure, they can start sharing ideas how to solve problems.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 5, 2017 19:28:55 GMT -5
It means trying to help the rest of world with the might and resources that the United States has. It's a win-win. If we can educate and build up other nations then we have more trade partners and less global instability.[And that's exactly what America has done throughout our history......where have you been?] In my opinion that means letting foreigners, both skilled and unskilled in to America to better themselves. Those foreigners will always have a connection to where they came from and want to better it. If they are able to provide for their families and feel secure, they can start sharing ideas how to solve problems. [No greater example than the Cubans, they love their native island with a fervor, but the ruthless Castro dictators continue their rule of darkness and oppression.]
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 5, 2017 20:38:18 GMT -5
I've heard people use the term "world citizen" but I don't have a clue as to what it means. Can you give me a working definition? Is it the same as saying "human being". Or is it just a way of hoping for a one-world government? It means trying to help the rest of world with the might and resources that the United States has. It's a win-win. If we can educate and build up other nations then we have more trade partners and less global instability. In my opinion that means letting foreigners, both skilled and unskilled in to America to better themselves. Those foreigners will always have a connection to where they came from and want to better it. If they are able to provide for their families and feel secure, they can start sharing ideas how to solve problems. That's a fair answer, and a globalist point of view. I'm sure you can understand that many of us have more of a nationalist point of view that is not motivated by bigotry or racism. In fact, I think Trump won because people thought we needed to swing back toward nationalism on the "Globaism----Nationalism" continuum.
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Post by galion on Aug 5, 2017 22:50:28 GMT -5
Trump won because the Dems couldn't find a trained monkey who could beat Hillary in the primary.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 5, 2017 23:29:53 GMT -5
Trump won because the Dems couldn't find a trained monkey who could beat Hillary in the primary. You forgot about "vote for me and everything will be free" Bernie?
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Post by 1percenter on Aug 6, 2017 6:03:45 GMT -5
I've heard people use the term "world citizen" but I don't have a clue as to what it means. Can you give me a working definition? Is it the same as saying "human being". Or is it just a way of hoping for a one-world government? It means trying to help the rest of world with the might and resources that the United States has. It's a win-win. If we can educate and build up other nations then we have more trade partners and less global instability. If you really believe what you say then you'd agree with this video 100%.
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Post by clb6110 on Aug 6, 2017 7:26:29 GMT -5
11 pages of posts and some interesting,good and absurd posts. The one thing that hits me the most is that 90% of the posts are related to Hispanics as the illegals. Almost as they are the "only" illegals.Sure there are many posts were people say "all illegals" or "it doesn't matter illegal is illegal" etc but by the next post or two after it goes right back to the Mexican thing. Go back and review this entire thread....90% of the people on here and in America that are anti illegal immigration are anti Mexican.
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Post by tommygunn on Aug 6, 2017 7:57:50 GMT -5
Anti Mexican? More like anti illegal. Doesn't matter if its Cubans, South Americans, Mexicans, etc.
Ole Jesus Lara had plenty of time to pursue legal citizenship and didn't lift one finger or even try. Have fun in Mexico buddy. Lesson learned.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 6, 2017 8:06:34 GMT -5
11 pages of posts and some interesting,good and absurd posts. The one thing that hits me the most is that 90% of the posts are related to Hispanics as the illegals. Almost as they are the "only" illegals.Sure there are many posts were people say "all illegals" or "it doesn't matter illegal is illegal" etc but by the next post or two after it goes right back to the Mexican thing. Go back and review this entire thread....90% of the people on here and in America that are anti illegal immigration are anti Mexican. Interesting observation, but you totally lose me with the "anti-illegal immigration are anti-Mexican" I don't get that from anybody on here. I feel none of the posters are Hispanic or Mexican haters, not even close. Is there a 'pro-illegal immigration?' That would be anti-American in my estimation, ignoring and disrespecting our nations Federal laws.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 6, 2017 9:27:58 GMT -5
Anti Mexican? More like anti illegal. Doesn't matter if its Cubans, South Americans, Mexicans, etc. Ole Jesus Lara had plenty of time to pursue legal citizenship and didn't lift one finger or even try. Have fun in Mexico buddy. Lesson learned. yeah doesn't matter what shade of brown they are to you folks eh? where is all the outrage over illegal Canadian immigrants? or illegal Irish immigrants? you guys hide behind the term immigrant when you really mean BROWN PEOPLE FROM DOWN SOUTH let's not kid ourselves here...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2017 9:42:40 GMT -5
It means trying to help the rest of world with the might and resources that the United States has. It's a win-win. If we can educate and build up other nations then we have more trade partners and less global instability. If you really believe what you say then you'd agree with this video 100%. I'm not going to watch some propoganda film on YouTube. Not worth my time. If you want to present the point of the film here, go for it.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 6, 2017 10:27:30 GMT -5
1%, Tommygun, and Rambo are all the same poster. The haters can't even get an accurate count of their own numbers but somehow they know how many illegal immigrants there are in the country. Even though they entered illegally, with no record.
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 6, 2017 11:39:00 GMT -5
Painting opponents of illegal immigration as racist is an old and tired argument. But most importantly, it is logically inane. Almost every country in the world enforces laws against illegal immigration. If opposing illegal immigration is racist then almost every country in the world, including Mexico, is dominated by racists. That is an absurd position.
There are legitimate arguments to be made against deporting illegals. Those are based on economics, priorities, compassion, etc. Yelling RACIST! doesn't scare anybody anymore. Al Sharpton wore that out.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 6, 2017 11:54:55 GMT -5
If you really believe what you say then you'd agree with this video 100%. I'm not going to watch some propoganda film on YouTube. Not worth my time. If you want to present the point of the film here, go for it. For one who professes to be liberal, or 'progressive' as you people choose to be referred, you are certainly being quite close minded. Put aside your biases and watch the video, it is very explanatory and puts the sheer numbers into proper perspective. What exactly, are you afraid of? Learning the truthful facts as they are? By the way, this is not a propaganda film.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 6, 2017 12:16:22 GMT -5
1%, Tommygun, and Rambo are all the same poster. The haters can't even get an accurate count of their own numbers but somehow they know how many illegal immigrants there are in the country. Even though they entered illegally, with no record. Serving as a Senior Staff advisor for NCOAST, aren't you violating members right of privacy? It certainly appears that way. True or not true, these kinds of public disclosures by a so-called Senior Staff member, sheds a negative light on NCOAST.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2017 12:19:56 GMT -5
I'm not going to watch some propoganda film on YouTube. Not worth my time. If you want to present the point of the film here, go for it. For one who professes to be liberal, or 'progressive' as you people choose to be referred, you are certainly being quite close minded. Put aside your biases and watch the video, it is very explanatory and puts the sheer numbers into proper perspective. What exactly, are you afraid of? Learning the truthful facts as they are? By the way, this is not a propaganda film. I never professed myself to be liberal. I bet I: - Am more of a capitalist than you - Own more guns than you I believe in a small government and civil rights for all. Im sorry if I don't fit the mold that makes you feel better What am I afraid of watching your video? Wasting my time.
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