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Post by tommygunn on Aug 8, 2017 12:36:18 GMT -5
law of the land rofl! someone forgot to tell the Big Banks let's elect a President who never paid taxes and throw out the bum migrant workers who do LOLOL!!!!!!!!!! You are as bad as CNN. Lol. They too tried that tax thing with Trump and then looked like a complete moron. You too fit that mold. Explain exactly what Trump did illegal in regards to the tax code. Again, just another jealous burger flipper who doesn't pay taxes, crying about a guy who has paid tens of millions in taxes. Cry on, cry on old burger flipper.
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 8, 2017 13:33:58 GMT -5
Whitaker are you for a federal minimum wage hike to $15? Why not $18? Why not $23? Why not $30? If you can't answer those questions you don't understand the possible consequences of the Govt controlling the free market. Should I explain it to you? When I consider that: 1) You've been pretty disrespectful of opposing posters in this thread, including me. 2) The question is off topic. 3) We've been posting together for 10 years and you can't spell my frickin' name. 4) You keep calling me son or kid even though I might be your daddy. 5) You played the race card, the stupid card and the hate card. I'll pass.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 8, 2017 14:14:32 GMT -5
sorry i don't read your posts i just peruse them
Rambo at least usually brings some meat to the table. I'd like to see a chart of 12 million illegals? That's like what, 4% of the entire US population? Doesn't that seem a little high to you? I think the entire country is only like 15-16% Hispanic?
And still no comment on the seasonality of the work? It's such a small niche sector of labor that to extrapolate from this one unique environment onto the entire global economy is beyond ludicrous.
It's like when Dems say we need to imitate some European country's health care system when the country they are talking about is the size of South Carolina. Systems don't always scale, in fact they rarely if ever do. If you guys who wanted to guarantee fellow 'Mericans would be a good alternative as a working class then mandate a minimum wage. Price the Spanish-speaking bastards right out of the country. I mean how dare they, be born in a place where they aren't taught English. The Godless Heathens. That would most assuredly work better than (LOL!) a wall.
The French tried hiding behind a wall to avoid invasion, too. If you wanna read how that worked out google the Maginot Line. Whitaker, you might want a refresher even though apparently you were old enough to be there. But memory fades, details erode.
Anyway, it didn't work so well. Now I know their invaders were in tanks...but their Wall was shorter than ours, and housed real troops, and howitzers, and such. Not exactly to scale either but...
Walls have been kind of a historic failure, since, well forever. There is better ways to spend that money. You know, unless you have a bunch of ties to construction, land development, etc. Not that a wall will ever built, but still.
But I digress. If you're not for a free market (gasp!) and you're not for an easily manipulated market solution, then what exactly are you for? Just hating? How many jobs are we talking here?
Fillmore, unemployment is NEVER going to be below 4%, that's the percentage of folks they factor as being in between jobs during a normal, healthy market. So we're talking a real unemployment of 3%.
You think that 3% wants to follow the picking seasons around the country? Or do you want them to get paid a year's salary for doing 16 (24? 30?) weeks of work? Because that is easily done with a simple federal wage increase. SIMPLE. Problem solved. What's the hangup? The best solution are the simplest ones.
So Forrest Whitaker, or Rambo, bring some game to the table, please. We have plenty of porridge, we have plenty of curds, and whey...but where is the meat kids? Good food, good meat, good God let's eat. Feed us something other than made up numbers and no solutions and AWFUL, sophomoric comparisons that my oldest son would peep as bs.
That would be a refreshing change of pace. We're like 13 pages in for goodness sake. Let's try one more time to shove that fat camel through the Eye. I don't think she is fitting, but you got the rest of your lives to try I reckon.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 8, 2017 16:15:02 GMT -5
Torch, I don't agree with your views most of the time, but I sure enjoy reading your posts. Your last post didn't disappoint, more great entertainment....what a grin.
When we get below the 4% unemployment mark, we are dipping into the virtual unemployable segment of our society. Substance abuse, mental or physical issues, criminal histories etc. There is a need for immigrant labor to supplement our workforce. The Labor department points this out every year, regardless what party occupies the Whitehouse.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 8, 2017 17:25:29 GMT -5
yeah but boss we've already had labor markets managed by a Federal Minimum Wage
It's called THE FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE.
If wages are out of whack then maybe the Government should mandate a Federal Minimum Wage for Agriculture. That's what you guys want? A floor to prop up the legal worker and protect him from being undercut by illegals? Incentive to participate in a new employment sector. You want bigger Government, right? That's the GOP platform?
Oh *inhales sharply* wait, that's right. You guys want a free market. Right? Smaller Government.
Is that right?
What exactly do you guys want again?
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 8, 2017 18:01:41 GMT -5
We all know when the Feds get involved with anything, it's a given, they will screw it up even worse.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 8, 2017 18:57:27 GMT -5
well i guess that's the great thing about the Black Market...Government regulation is kinda lax
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Aug 8, 2017 20:34:48 GMT -5
And illegals aren't going to colleges, getting degrees and becoming teachers so there's no reason to even use this as an example or compare the two. There are colleges in other countries. There are teachers in other countries. Why can't illegals be teachers. Do you think they are too dumb? If a teacher sneaks into this country why would you oppose the local school board hiring them and paying them substandard wages with no benefits? If its good for the farmers why isn't it good for the local taxpayer who pay teacher's salaries? Uh, teachers that graduate from Harvard, teach in the State of New York high schools, can't "immigrate" to Ohio and teach here. UNTIL they get certified to teach in Ohio.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Aug 8, 2017 20:38:13 GMT -5
yeah but boss we've already had labor markets managed by a Federal Minimum Wage It's called THE FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE. If wages are out of whack then maybe the Government should mandate a Federal Minimum Wage for Agriculture. That's what you guys want? A floor to prop up the legal worker and protect him from being undercut by illegals? Incentive to participate in a new employment sector. You want bigger Government, right? That's the GOP platform? Oh *inhales sharply* wait, that's right. You guys want a free market. Right? Smaller Government. Is that right? What exactly do you guys want again? Making the Federal Minimum Wage in New York City or San Francisco means your living in poverty. Making the Federal Minimum Wage in some back water town of Mississippi means your middle class.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 22:34:57 GMT -5
Back to the beginning, how about we just not hire illegals.
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Post by sithbucknut77 on Aug 8, 2017 22:38:12 GMT -5
yeah but boss we've already had labor markets managed by a Federal Minimum Wage It's called THE FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE. If wages are out of whack then maybe the Government should mandate a Federal Minimum Wage for Agriculture. That's what you guys want? A floor to prop up the legal worker and protect him from being undercut by illegals? Â Incentive to participate in a new employment sector. You want bigger Government, right? That's the GOP platform? Oh *inhales sharply* wait, that's right. You guys want a free market. Right? Â Smaller Government. Is that right? What exactly do you guys want again? Making the Federal Minimum Wage in New York City or San Francisco means your living in poverty. Making the Federal Minimum Wage in some back water town of Mississippi means your middle class. No one anywhere making the minimum wage is middle class.
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Post by tommygunn on Aug 9, 2017 8:28:32 GMT -5
Im fine with free market. The farmers will find out as more and more illegals and even legals do not want to work in the fields, they will have to come up with solutions that also keeps pricing in line or they will simply go out of business or have to sell to a larger outfit who can. That is called the free market and free thinking. It is not Donald Trumps fault that he is enforcing our laws. I blame presidents in the past who have just openly ignored much of our immigration policy.
The movement of migrants out of our local farm fields has been happening way before January 20th 2017 when DT took over as president. Any farmer that tells you otherwise is lying to you. They will have to put a little less in their pocket and pay more to entice people to stay or their business's will fail to exist and be sold to bigger outfits who can absorb wage increases without scaring everyone that Willard Ohio sets produce prices nationwide. We aren't falling for that guys.
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Post by Rambo McClain on Aug 9, 2017 8:42:01 GMT -5
I don't get the open borders crowd. Do they think all Americans are so smart that they are capable of getting a college degree?
They are very naive if they think all Americans are capable of getting a college degree. Let's say 80% are capable which leaves us with 20% of Americans that are incapable of getting a college degree. So what do these open borders liberals like Torch think we should do with that 20%. Kill them off? Let them be homeless on the street. Force them to live like Illegals with 20 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment with roaches everywhere? Obviously Torch is okay with illegals taking over in the construction field which has already taken place in many places throughout the USA. Illegals are penetrating factories now too, as evidenced in the NYT article.
America just deported an illegal that was working at Pepperidge Farm in Willard. Torch and the crew are saying Americans just won't work in factories we need illegals to do those jobs. Was he the only illegal working there? If 2% of workers there are illegal will pay stay the same or drop? If 90% of workers there are illegal will pay stay the same or drop? It's pretty obvious that if it got up to 90% illegals then the pay would be much lower. Then we'd have self righteous Torch get on here and tell us we are racist for saying those illegals took American factory jobs at Pepperidge Farm in Willard and that Americans just don't want to put in the hard work of a Factory and only illegals will do it.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 9, 2017 9:53:26 GMT -5
0-2 guys
keep swinging
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Post by ronswanson on Aug 9, 2017 10:20:34 GMT -5
I see there was basically a half attempt to answer my earlier question so I'll repeat it. What should Americans do for 7-8 months out of the year when their seasonal agriculture job is done after 3-4 months? How can an American from Willard support his family working on one of the farms for 3-4 months? Do we expect those people to just keep moving from part time job to part time job? It doesn't matter if a bigger company buys out one of the farms like tommygunn suggested, the jobs are still seasonal with no benefits package(that I know of anyway?). Hard to live a comfortable life and save for retirement working seasonal jobs. Which brings us back to my main point/argument that Americans aren't going to do these jobs. Not for their careers.
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 9, 2017 11:26:32 GMT -5
I see there was basically a half attempt to answer my earlier question so I'll repeat it. What should Americans do for 7-8 months out of the year when their seasonal agriculture job is done after 3-4 months? How can an American from Willard support his family working on one of the farms for 3-4 months? Do we expect those people to just keep moving from part time job to part time job? It doesn't matter if a bigger company buys out one of the farms like tommygunn suggested, the jobs are still seasonal with no benefits package(that I know of anyway?). Hard to live a comfortable life and save for retirement working seasonal jobs. Which brings us back to my main point/argument that Americans aren't going to do these jobs. Not for their careers. I trust, farming immigrants are quite skilled at what they do and take pride in what they do. A great many farm immigrant families have been doing this for many, multiple generations. I doubt American workers would possess the same work ethic, net production and personal pride in their efforts, as the Mexicans field workers.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 9, 2017 11:35:39 GMT -5
I don't get the open borders crowd. Do they think all Americans are so smart that they are capable of getting a college degree? They are very naive if they think all Americans are capable of getting a college degree. Let's say 80% are capable which leaves us with 20% of Americans that are incapable of getting a college degree. So what do these open borders liberals like Torch think we should do with that 20%. Kill them off? Let them be homeless on the street. Force them to live like Illegals with 20 people living in a 2 bedroom apartment with roaches everywhere? Obviously Torch is okay with illegals taking over in the construction field which has already taken place in many places throughout the USA. Illegals are penetrating factories now too, as evidenced in the NYT article. America just deported an illegal that was working at Pepperidge Farm in Willard. Torch and the crew are saying Americans just won't work in factories we need illegals to do those jobs. Was he the only illegal working there? If 2% of workers there are illegal will pay stay the same or drop? If 90% of workers there are illegal will pay stay the same or drop? It's pretty obvious that if it got up to 90% illegals then the pay would be much lower. Then we'd have self righteous Torch get on here and tell us we are racist for saying those illegals took American factory jobs at Pepperidge Farm in Willard and that Americans just don't want to put in the hard work of a Factory and only illegals will do it. how do you morons onboard an illegal? how do you do an I-9? (2) forms of ID or a passport? maybe fine the crap out of Pepperidge Farms so they do their due diligence instead of hiring illegals, that'd be my answer, not a WALL lol
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Post by Whittaker on Aug 9, 2017 11:50:18 GMT -5
Seasonal jobs aren't exclusive to farming in Ohio. Ski resorts, Xmas Season Retail. Lake Erie Cruises. Amusement Parks. Fishing Charters. Racetracks and Drag Strips. Sports and all the seasonal jobs that go with them-(Referees, security, concessions, parking). County Fairs-(Carnies, concessions, security, maintenance, inspections). Lawn Care. Road Paving and other Construction Jobs. Private Snow Plowing. Swimming Facilities-(Maintenance, Lifeguards). House-painting. Outdoor Concerts. Nurseries. Deer Processing. Etc. There is nothing special about farm jobs that warrants hiring illegals.
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Post by tommygunn on Aug 9, 2017 11:51:05 GMT -5
I see there was basically a half attempt to answer my earlier question so I'll repeat it. What should Americans do for 7-8 months out of the year when their seasonal agriculture job is done after 3-4 months? How can an American from Willard support his family working on one of the farms for 3-4 months? Do we expect those people to just keep moving from part time job to part time job? It doesn't matter if a bigger company buys out one of the farms like tommygunn suggested, the jobs are still seasonal with no benefits package(that I know of anyway?). Hard to live a comfortable life and save for retirement working seasonal jobs. Which brings us back to my main point/argument that Americans aren't going to do these jobs. Not for their careers. How do all those construction and road people make it up here when they get laid off for the summer? Seasonal jobs. I know quite a few. They don't work in the winter. They work like crazy in the summer and make money to last until the work picks up again in late April/May.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 12:04:49 GMT -5
Here in wine country, when harvest season hits all the restaurants and hotels can't find enough people to wash dishes and clean rooms. All the workers leave to go work in the lucrative grape picking industry. My answer to the restaurants and hotels is simple: pay more money.
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Post by ronswanson on Aug 9, 2017 12:51:50 GMT -5
No matter what the seasonal job is, you still can't raise a family, live comfortably, and save for retirement on it while also having no benefits.
So tommygunn, you'd be willing to do a seasonal job like that, work for 3-4 months and hope and pray that you make enough to live on it for the next 7-8 months?
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Aug 10, 2017 11:50:44 GMT -5
Making the Federal Minimum Wage in New York City or San Francisco means your living in poverty. Making the Federal Minimum Wage in some back water town of Mississippi means your middle class. No one anywhere making the minimum wage is middle class. COMPARITIVELY....ever been to Mississippi?
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Post by sithbucknut77 on Aug 10, 2017 12:16:08 GMT -5
Yes...I have been to 39 states in the union plus Canada, Mexico, and France. No none of those foreign trips are vacations.
Have you left the county?
And how is 15k per year middle class? how do house and feed yourself on 15k? And how many min wage jobs are actually 40 hours per week and have med benefits?
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Aug 10, 2017 13:11:00 GMT -5
Compare 15k/ year in NY and San Fran to 15k in backwater Mississippi and there is. HUGE difference. Comparatively the difference between poverty and middle class . Surely you don't think THE "middle class" in Chareston is the same as Buford South Carolina.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Aug 10, 2017 13:17:09 GMT -5
Compare 15k/ year in NY and San Fran to 15k in backwater Mississippi and there is. HUGE difference. Comparatively the difference between poverty and middle class . Surely you don't think THE "middle class" in Brownsville Texas is the same as Dallas.
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Post by sithbucknut77 on Aug 10, 2017 13:39:50 GMT -5
Compare 15k/ year in NY and San Fran to 15k in backwater Mississippi and there is. HUGE difference. Comparatively the difference between poverty and middle class . Surely you don't think THE "middle class" in Chareston is the same as Buford South Carolina. Sure...you can't live on 15k in san fran or ny. You don't have to Mississippi to demonstrate huge difference, you can stay right here in Ohio. Yes it's a huge difference but 15k in Ohio or Mississippi still isn't middle class! It's poverty.
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Post by deathfromabove on Aug 10, 2017 16:06:39 GMT -5
I wonder how long it will take for this topic to get to 20 pages?
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Post by sportsjock on Aug 10, 2017 21:50:38 GMT -5
I wonder how long it will take for this topic to get to 20 pages? My eyes are getting droopy........yawn.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 11, 2017 10:04:37 GMT -5
ATTENTION CITIZENS OF THE WORLD, WE JUST REALIZED LADY LIBERTY IS A WHORE. SO WE'RE BUILDING A WALL.
IT'S YOUR 4UCK1NG PROBLEM NOW.
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Post by DrTorch on Aug 11, 2017 10:06:56 GMT -5
John Birch Society Blues
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