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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 26, 2017 21:45:20 GMT -5
I can agree that for the most part things have been mostly stable. Change does happen and it is normal so fighting it would be insane. My ultimate thought with leagues, when it comes right down to it, is that distance and travel are the factor. Everything else is fluff. Those that factor in enrollment and competition are only making excuses. No granted, if the difference in enrollment for boys is 300+ then okay. "For the most part things have been mostly stable." Isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for stability. Let's see. The NCC was blown up, the MAL imploded, to create the new N-10. In their short history Riverdale and Crestline has left and Upper was invited back after they were ran away from. The NOL, SBC and SRL were imploding, so most of the schools in those leagues got together to form a Mega SBC. More schools are predicted to join, one is leaving already and all schools voted against Fremont joining. From 2014-2015 to 2017-2018 the MOAC has had 19 different schools, they will be at 8 for 2018-2019. The OCC is down to 7 schools, with Orrville and Clear Fork leaving and Mount Vernon joining, after having 8 since 2005. With no idea when or where an 8th member will come from. NU left knowing their trips in the CBC would be over 25% longer on average and the school they ran away from had 200 more boys not 300.
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Post by gridiron58 on Jul 26, 2017 21:50:24 GMT -5
That's correct... the "constant league changes" comment was in reference to all the leagues/teams, not just Shelby. It's so frustrating when a few schools looking for greener pastures can completely decimate a whole region. For example... Carey, Mohawk, and Seneca East bailed on the extremely competitive MAL to join the N10 and get dominated by Wynford.... MAL folds.... Calvert agrees to join the SRL and then leaves for the TAAC before ever playing a game, leaving the other schools scrambling. Two years later Calvert leaves the TAAC for the SBC (as if they didn't know the TAAC was a bad idea to begin with). There has got to be a better way than this vicious cycle of one league stealing teams from another, forcing that league stealing from another and so on. To compound what the N10 did to the MAL. It was worse what they did to the NCC. After Wynford, CC, BC, Bucyrus, Crestline and Riverdale voted in favor of admitting Upper and Galion to the NCC, before those 2 new schools played their first game in the NCC the 6 aforementioned schools left Upper, Galion, Ontario and Lucas high and dry in favor of the schools the pulled away from the MAL. I didn't know that Willard. Sounds like the NCC is run by some really classy individuals. Why do schools schedule non-conference games with people like this?
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Post by 2112 on Jul 26, 2017 22:54:21 GMT -5
Would it be irony if a school like Seneca East sniffed around to rejoin some old MAL pals in the River Division? Could get interesting... Seneca East will come over. Maybe before Genoa & Woodmore make the jump.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 7:10:15 GMT -5
I didn't know that Willard. Sounds like the NCC is run by some really classy individuals. Why do schools schedule non-conference games with people like this? The end of the NCC orchestrated by a few individuals who wanted to go in a different direction and separate from some of their league members at that time. Sometimes things happen quickly when opportunities arise and the ones left out are usually bitter about it. But over time people calm down, positions change, new people fill in, attitudes change and games get scheduled. Bottom line is sometimes, teams-schools-people want to disconnect from other teams-schools-people and the result has nothing to do with travel, location, enrollment like a typical league change may.
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Post by 2112 on Jul 27, 2017 11:35:55 GMT -5
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Post by moacmama on Jul 27, 2017 20:39:06 GMT -5
I can agree that for the most part things have been mostly stable. Change does happen and it is normal so fighting it would be insane. My ultimate thought with leagues, when it comes right down to it, is that distance and travel are the factor. Everything else is fluff. Those that factor in enrollment and competition are only making excuses. No granted, if the difference in enrollment for boys is 300+ then okay. "For the most part things have been mostly stable." Isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for stability. Let's see. The NCC was blown up, the MAL imploded, to create the new N-10. In their short history Riverdale and Crestline has left and Upper was invited back after they were ran away from. The NOL, SBC and SRL were imploding, so most of the schools in those leagues got together to form a Mega SBC. More schools are predicted to join, one is leaving already and all schools voted against Fremont joining. From 2014-2015 to 2017-2018 the MOAC has had 19 different schools, they will be at 8 for 2018-2019. The OCC is down to 7 schools, with Orrville and Clear Fork leaving and Mount Vernon joining, after having 8 since 2005. With no idea when or where an 8th member will come from. NU left knowing their trips in the CBC would be over 25% longer on average and the school they ran away from had 200 more boys not 300. Stop it. I am willing to bet you have never once stepped in the NU school district. Once again, 45 minutes to Springfield from my house vs. an hour to Galion. Get over it and move on.
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Post by fbfan on Jul 28, 2017 5:24:03 GMT -5
That's correct... the "constant league changes" comment was in reference to all the leagues/teams, not just Shelby. It's so frustrating when a few schools looking for greener pastures can completely decimate a whole region. For example... Carey, Mohawk, and Seneca East bailed on the extremely competitive MAL to join the N10 and get dominated by Wynford.... MAL folds.... Calvert agrees to join the SRL and then leaves for the TAAC before ever playing a game, leaving the other schools scrambling. Two years later Calvert leaves the TAAC for the SBC (as if they didn't know the TAAC was a bad idea to begin with). There has got to be a better way than this vicious cycle of one league stealing teams from another, forcing that league stealing from another and so on. To compound what the N10 did to the MAL. It was worse what they did to the NCC. After Wynford, CC, BC, Bucyrus, Crestline and Riverdale voted in favor of admitting Upper and Galion to the NCC, before those 2 new schools played their first game in the NCC the 6 aforementioned schools changed their minds and left Upper, Galion, Ontario and Lucas high and dry in favor of the schools they pulled away from the MAL. No one "did" anything to anyone. The schools that formed the N10 exercised their right to change leagues under the rules the same as any school that has moved before or since then. You're statement is untrue. Upper and Galion were already playing in the NCC before the N10 was formed. Actually, Upper and Galion played 3 seasons in the NCC. More notice was given than required (a lot more than is being given in some of the movement we're seeing currently). Quit distorting the facts to make your point Fact Teller.
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Post by fbfan on Jul 28, 2017 5:30:44 GMT -5
I can agree that for the most part things have been mostly stable. Change does happen and it is normal so fighting it would be insane. My ultimate thought with leagues, when it comes right down to it, is that distance and travel are the factor. Everything else is fluff. Those that factor in enrollment and competition are only making excuses. No granted, if the difference in enrollment for boys is 300+ then okay. "For the most part things have been mostly stable." Isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for stability. Let's see. The NCC was blown up, the MAL imploded, to create the new N-10. In their short history Riverdale and Crestline has left and Upper was invited back after they were ran away from. The NOL, SBC and SRL were imploding, so most of the schools in those leagues got together to form a Mega SBC. More schools are predicted to join, one is leaving already and all schools voted against Fremont joining. From 2014-2015 to 2017-2018 the MOAC has had 19 different schools, they will be at 8 for 2018-2019. The OCC is down to 7 schools, with Orrville and Clear Fork leaving and Mount Vernon joining, after having 8 since 2005. With no idea when or where an 8th member will come from. NU left knowing their trips in the CBC would be over 25% longer on average and the school they ran away from had 200 more boys not 300. Upper was not invited to join the N10, they wanted out of the MOAC and were accepted when they asked to be let in when Riverdale left. Quit distorting the facts to make your point Fact Teller.
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Post by fbfan on Jul 28, 2017 5:36:12 GMT -5
To compound what the N10 did to the MAL. It was worse what they did to the NCC. After Wynford, CC, BC, Bucyrus, Crestline and Riverdale voted in favor of admitting Upper and Galion to the NCC, before those 2 new schools played their first game in the NCC the 6 aforementioned schools left Upper, Galion, Ontario and Lucas high and dry in favor of the schools the pulled away from the MAL. I didn't know that Willard. Sounds like the NCC is run by some really classy individuals. Why do schools schedule non-conference games with people like this? The Fact Teller sometimes distorts (I'm being kind here) things to make his point. Don't form your opinion just on his words.
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Post by galion on Jul 28, 2017 12:33:15 GMT -5
Are you really going to come on here and claim that the talks to form the N10,9,8 didn't begin before Upper and Galion played their first football game in the NCC? Please let's not do this again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 13:07:47 GMT -5
I thought Galion and Upper made their decision in 2009 so between then and 2011 things happen. The fact that the league continued for 2 full years after those teams announced leaving was plenty of time to plan a move.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 28, 2017 14:33:40 GMT -5
"For the most part things have been mostly stable." Isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for stability. Let's see. The NCC was blown up, the MAL imploded, to create the new N-10. In their short history Riverdale and Crestline has left and Upper was invited back after they were ran away from. The NOL, SBC and SRL were imploding, so most of the schools in those leagues got together to form a Mega SBC. More schools are predicted to join, one is leaving already and all schools voted against Fremont joining. From 2014-2015 to 2017-2018 the MOAC has had 19 different schools, they will be at 8 for 2018-2019. The OCC is down to 7 schools, with Orrville and Clear Fork leaving and Mount Vernon joining, after having 8 since 2005. With no idea when or where an 8th member will come from. NU left knowing their trips in the CBC would be over 25% longer on average and the school they ran away from had 200 more boys not 300. Upper was not invited to join the N10, they wanted out of the MOAC and were accepted when they asked to be let in when Riverdale left. Quit distorting the facts to make your point Fact Teller. It is impossible to join a league unless a school is invited to do so by a league. In the most recent cases, NU has been invited to join the CBC and Shelby has been invited to join the MOAC. A school can " ASK" all they want, but unless an invite is proffered by said league, they can not join that league. Not knowledgeable one.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 28, 2017 14:42:27 GMT -5
I didn't know that Willard. Sounds like the NCC is run by some really classy individuals. Why do schools schedule non-conference games with people like this? The Fact Teller sometimes distorts (I'm being kind here) things to make his point. Don't form your opinion just on his words. Says the not knowledgeable one.
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Post by fbfan on Jul 28, 2017 15:29:07 GMT -5
Are you really going to come on here and claim that the talks to form the N10,9,8 didn't begin before Upper and Galion played their first football game in the NCC? Please let's not do this again. I really don't know when anyone started talking about new leagues. I think it probably goes on all the time, even now. Could have been a couple of coaches or AD's wondering "what if" at a track meet, after a BB game, or over a beer at the Tiro Tavern. I talked about starting a family years before I even met my wife but it was "just talk" until the necessary steps were taken. At what point during Galion's five year losing streak before they left the NOL did anyone connected with Galion talk about the possibility of finding a "better travel situation" place to be? But you're right, I don't need to come on here and debate this again, so I'll stop. After all, I already won it on the old NOSF.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 28, 2017 15:38:22 GMT -5
To compound what the N10 did to the MAL. It was worse what they did to the NCC. After Wynford, CC, BC, Bucyrus, Crestline and Riverdale voted in favor of admitting Upper and Galion to the NCC, before those 2 new schools played their first game in the NCC the 6 aforementioned schools changed their minds and left Upper, Galion, Ontario and Lucas high and dry in favor of the schools they pulled away from the MAL. No one "did" anything to anyone. The schools that formed the N10 exercised their right to change leagues under the rules the same as any school that has moved before or since then. You're statement is untrue. Upper and Galion were already playing in the NCC before the N10 was formed. Actually, Upper and Galion played 3 seasons in the NCC. More notice was given than required (a lot more than is being given in some of the movement we're seeing currently). Quit distorting the facts to make your point Fact Teller. They did not "change" leagues. For that to be TRUE, the N-10 would have had to be on ongoing league that schools applied to and were accepted by. In this case 6 schools ran away from 4 schools in the NCC and found 4 more schools to JOIN them in CREATING a NEW league. To be 100% accurate, there were private talks being made and plans being laid long before the first game was played by Galion and Upper in the NCC. The announcement that Upper, Galion, Ontario and Lucas were no longer wanted came before the first football season with Galion and Upper was over. OVIOUSLY a new league can't start in less than a year. OBVIOUSLY the league being broken up would have to play a couple of years, allowing all schools to come up with new schedules. Please be accurate
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 28, 2017 15:53:42 GMT -5
"For the most part things have been mostly stable." Isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for stability. Let's see. The NCC was blown up, the MAL imploded, to create the new N-10. In their short history Riverdale and Crestline has left and Upper was invited back after they were ran away from. The NOL, SBC and SRL were imploding, so most of the schools in those leagues got together to form a Mega SBC. More schools are predicted to join, one is leaving already and all schools voted against Fremont joining. From 2014-2015 to 2017-2018 the MOAC has had 19 different schools, they will be at 8 for 2018-2019. The OCC is down to 7 schools, with Orrville and Clear Fork leaving and Mount Vernon joining, after having 8 since 2005. With no idea when or where an 8th member will come from. NU left knowing their trips in the CBC would be over 25% longer on average and the school they ran away from had 200 more boys not 300. Stop it. I am willing to bet you have never once stepped in the NU school district. Once again, 45 minutes to Springfield from my house vs. an hour to Galion. Get over it and move on. Surely you jest! What in the heck does it matter if I've been in the NU school district??? It DOES NOT matter to to anyone in the NU athletic department or Administration how far your house or how far anyone's house in the NU school District is from Springfield. What they care about is how it is from NU's middle school and high school to other schools in the CBC. The actual bus trip for athletic events. Their cost to make the trips. They DO NOT care about what the cost is for you or anyone in the NU district. Once again, the numbers I have given are how long a trip is from NU to the other schools in the CBC and how far the trips are from NU to other MOAC schools. You're the one who has an "over it" to "move on" from. I'm just the purveyor of data.
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Post by moacmama on Jul 28, 2017 17:43:25 GMT -5
Bahaha!
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Post by GHS 1999 on Jul 28, 2017 19:10:09 GMT -5
At the end of the day, the data as to which conference has longer trips is meaningless imo. North Union made a decision which they feel is in the best interest of their student athletes and I for one respect that. Shelby in turn has also made a decision that they feels is in the best interest of their student athletes as well. At this point it would be really nice for all these conferences to start stabilizing themselves a little bit so we aren't going through this all the time. Just my two cents.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 28, 2017 19:38:00 GMT -5
At the end of the day, the data as to which conference has longer trips is meaningless imo. North Union made a decision which they feel is in the best interest of their student athletes and I for one respect that. Shelby in turn has also made a decision that they feels is in the best interest of their student athletes as well. At this point it would be really nice for all these conferences to start stabilizing themselves a little bit so we aren't going through this all the time. Just my two cents. I agree, but the reason heard on here from NU folk for leaving the MOAC was that Ontario was too far to travel to. When in actuality the trip to Ontario is only a few minutes further than the average trip for NU to schools in their division of the CBC. Just tell the truth. Due to the addition of Harding, Clear Fork and Ontario the competition in the MOAC was getting too much for their liking. The next falsehood was that the Divisions in the CBC were being changed to make shorter trips for NU. Untrue again. The slight change was made so NU could be in a Division with the 5 smallest schools in the CBC. I have NO problem with a school going to a new league to play teams closer to their size. Just don't make up stories that belie the real reason, which is perfectly reasonable. The decision NU made in the best interests of their students was to play smaller schools with longer trips. The decision Shelby made in the best interest of their students was to play larger schools with shorter trips. Two completely different reasons, both in the best interest of their students.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 21:23:42 GMT -5
At the end of the day, the data as to which conference has longer trips is meaningless imo. North Union made a decision which they feel is in the best interest of their student athletes and I for one respect that. Shelby in turn has also made a decision that they feels is in the best interest of their student athletes as well. At this point it would be really nice for all these conferences to start stabilizing themselves a little bit so we aren't going through this all the time. Just my two cents. I agree and partial reason for the move was they did not want to play some of the schools entering the league along with a current member. mileage had little to do with it. Some schools who have been the reason for other leaving may want to take a look at themselves and see themselves for what they are.
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Post by usramfan on Jul 29, 2017 10:39:18 GMT -5
To compound what the N10 did to the MAL. It was worse what they did to the NCC. After Wynford, CC, BC, Bucyrus, Crestline and Riverdale voted in favor of admitting Upper and Galion to the NCC, before those 2 new schools played their first game in the NCC the 6 aforementioned schools changed their minds and left Upper, Galion, Ontario and Lucas high and dry in favor of the schools they pulled away from the MAL. No one "did" anything to anyone. The schools that formed the N10 exercised their right to change leagues under the rules the same as any school that has moved before or since then. You're statement is untrue. Upper and Galion were already playing in the NCC before the N10 was formed. Actually, Upper and Galion played 3 seasons in the NCC. More notice was given than required (a lot more than is being given in some of the movement we're seeing currently). Quit distorting the facts to make your point Fact Teller. I hardly ever agree with WF, but in this case, he's right. Upper and Galion were admitted and then the other schools broke away from them to do their own thing before fall sports were even completed. Why admit them if you're going to break off virtually right away? That's a crappy way of doing business. What other way is there to describe it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 11:56:11 GMT -5
No one "did" anything to anyone. The schools that formed the N10 exercised their right to change leagues under the rules the same as any school that has moved before or since then. You're statement is untrue. Upper and Galion were already playing in the NCC before the N10 was formed. Actually, Upper and Galion played 3 seasons in the NCC. More notice was given than required (a lot more than is being given in some of the movement we're seeing currently). Quit distorting the facts to make your point Fact Teller. I hardly ever agree with WF, but in this case, he's right. Upper and Galion were admitted and then the other schools broke away from them to do their own thing before fall sports were even completed. Why admit them if you're going to break off virtually right away? That's a crappy way of doing business. What other way is there to describe it? Galion and Upper were admitted in 2009 and the other schools left the NCC in 2014 with an announcement in 2011. Some can try but there is no bad guy in this. It was people in charge creating or taking advantage of a situation for their own school's interest.
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Post by fbfan on Jul 29, 2017 12:12:52 GMT -5
No one "did" anything to anyone. The schools that formed the N10 exercised their right to change leagues under the rules the same as any school that has moved before or since then. You're statement is untrue. Upper and Galion were already playing in the NCC before the N10 was formed. Actually, Upper and Galion played 3 seasons in the NCC. More notice was given than required (a lot more than is being given in some of the movement we're seeing currently). Quit distorting the facts to make your point Fact Teller. I hardly ever agree with WF, but in this case, he's right. Upper and Galion were admitted and then the other schools broke away from them to do their own thing before fall sports were even completed. Why admit them if you're going to break off virtually right away? That's a crappy way of doing business. What other way is there to describe it? Upper and Galion were accepted into the NCC in February and March of 2009. The N10 was formed in December of 2011. They were admitted to the NCC two years and 9 months before the announcement of the formation of the N10. Then, 2 more seasons were played in the NCC. It's a distortion of the facts to say "virtually right away". As comparisons, how many seasons did Upper play in the MOAC before they came running to the N10? How many months and how many seasons will Shelby be in the SBC? How many more seasons will NU be in the MOAC? If a school wants to play in a different league, how long should they have to wait?
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Post by greenman on Jul 29, 2017 21:54:06 GMT -5
This conference realignment, from Lakeside to Richwood, is mind-boggling. So many different districts wants different things, to join one group and leave another for different reasons. Coaches, BoEs, and ADs need to all get a grip, and realize that, while their first priority is their own district, they can't forget that the push and pull of changing conferences more often than one does bedsheets affects everyone.
Whatever the reason: size, geography, tradition, the lure of points...just make a choice and stick with it. The multiple shuffles in a few years by some schools in these realignments, rather than the thought of realignments themselves, is grating.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jul 31, 2017 14:00:26 GMT -5
I hardly ever agree with WF, but in this case, he's right. Upper and Galion were admitted and then the other schools broke away from them to do their own thing before fall sports were even completed. Why admit them if you're going to break off virtually right away? That's a crappy way of doing business. What other way is there to describe it? Upper and Galion were accepted into the NCC in February and March of 2009. The N10 was formed in December of 2011. They were admitted to the NCC two years and 9 months before the announcement of the formation of the N10. Then, 2 more seasons were played in the NCC. It's a distortion of the facts to say "virtually right away". As comparisons, how many seasons did Upper play in the MOAC before they came running to the N10? How many months and how many seasons will Shelby be in the SBC? How many more seasons will NU be in the MOAC? If a school wants to play in a different league, how long should they have to wait? Private discussions took place, official meetings held, other schools were being convinced to leave their leagues to reach the number "10", plans were being laid LONG before the 2011 official ANNOUNCEMENT of a new N10 conference being formed. Surely you don't believe a brand new 10 school conference with schools from 3 different leagues happens over night. How long has it taken the new mega SBC to come about? It is still evolving. Shelby had nothing to do with the formation of the SBC. The NOL was imploding, Shelby had no other league to join, no one wants to be an independent. Heck the SBC never really wanted Shelby, they're too far south. The SBC schools are happier about Shelby leaving than Shelby is happy to be out of the SBC. Shelby did not vote to allow 2 schools to join a current league they were a member of. They did not take 5 other schools with them to get away from the 3 largest schools in the league they were in. "How long should a school have to wait to play in a different league". In the case of the N-10, a single school wasn't waiting to join a new league. SIX members of a league left the other 4 members of the league, causing it's demise, to form a NEW league. I'm shocked you have the gall to mention Upper and the MOAC. Six NCC schools ran away from Upper, then in desperation 2 years later approved them as a new member. There is ABSOLUTELY no comparison between what the single school Shelby has done to what the 6 of 10 NCC schools did.
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Post by fbfan on Jul 31, 2017 15:25:52 GMT -5
Posted by Willard Fillmore Jul 28, 2017 at 8:38pm
"I have NO problem with a school going to a new league to play teams closer to their size. Just don't make up stories that belie the real reason, which is perfectly reasonable. The decision NU made in the best interests of their students was to play smaller schools with longer trips. The decision Shelby made in the best interest of their students was to play larger schools with shorter trips. Two completely different reasons, both in the best interest of their students."
Considering all the crap you've said about the N10 schools in your posts, the quote above obviously must mean you have NO problem only when a school moving in the best interests their students, also is in the best interest or doesn't affect Ontario.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 16:01:54 GMT -5
fbfan, If not mistaken, the NCC last years after the announcement. This gave everyone time to make choices. Upper was even asked to join the N10 so the 6 NCC schools had no problem with them. Galion still competed in sports with some of the 6 NCC schools who sparked the N10 , so Galion wasn't an issue either.
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Post by fbfan on Jul 31, 2017 17:31:12 GMT -5
Upper and Galion were accepted into the NCC in February and March of 2009. The N10 was formed in December of 2011. They were admitted to the NCC two years and 9 months before the announcement of the formation of the N10. Then, 2 more seasons were played in the NCC. It's a distortion of the facts to say "virtually right away". As comparisons, how many seasons did Upper play in the MOAC before they came running to the N10? How many months and how many seasons will Shelby be in the SBC? How many more seasons will NU be in the MOAC? If a school wants to play in a different league, how long should they have to wait? Private discussions took place, official meetings held, other schools were being convinced to leave their leagues to reach the number "10", plans were being laid LONG before the 2011 official ANNOUNCEMENT of a new N10 conference being formed. Surely you don't believe a brand new 10 school conference with schools from 3 different leagues happens over night. Yes, that's how a new league is formed. What's you're point. Any rules broken?How long has it taken the new mega SBC to come about? It is still evolving. Shelby had nothing to do with the formation en?of the SBC. The NOL was imploding, Shelby had no other league to join, no one wants to be an independent. Heck the SBC never really wanted Shelby, they're too far south. The SBC schools are happier about Shelby leaving than Shelby is happy to be out of the SBC. Again, what's you're point? Shelby did not vote to allow 2 schools to join a current league they were a member of. They did not take 5 other schools with them to get away from the 3 largest schools in the league they were in. Never said they did. Just used Shelby's tenure in the SBC as a comparison of how much notice the N10 schools gave the others when they left the NCC when it was said that they left "virtually right away" after admitting Galion and Upper to the NCC."How long should a school have to wait to play in a different league". In the case of the N-10, a single school wasn't waiting to join a new league. SIX members of a league left the other 4 members of the league, causing it's demise, to form a NEW league. How many schools should be allowed to leave a league at one time? Any rules broken? Who gets to decide, You?I'm shocked you have the gall to mention Upper and the MOAC. Six NCC schools ran away from Upper, then in desperation 2 years later approved them as a new member. Obviously, the N10 has never been "desperate" about filling vacancies. Upper was the one desperate to leave the MOAC. Should the N10 have denied them when Upper inquired about the Riverdale vacancy?There is ABSOLUTELY no comparison between what the single school Shelby has done to what the 6 of 10 NCC schools did. As mentioned above, Shelby and NU were mentioned only to illustrate the notice given by the N10 schools to the NCC compared to others. Not making judgment on anyone. What do you think Shelby has "done"? See responses to Fact Teller's twisting of the facts above in bold. I'm done with this subject on this thread, everyone can form their own opinion, obviously I have mine.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 18:45:07 GMT -5
Private discussions took place, official meetings held, other schools were being convinced to leave their leagues to reach the number "10", plans were being laid LONG before the 2011 official ANNOUNCEMENT of a new N10 conference being formed. Surely you don't believe a brand new 10 school conference with schools from 3 different leagues happens over night. Yes, that's how a new league is formed. What's you're point. Any rules broken?How long has it taken the new mega SBC to come about? It is still evolving. Shelby had nothing to do with the formation en?of the SBC. The NOL was imploding, Shelby had no other league to join, no one wants to be an independent. Heck the SBC never really wanted Shelby, they're too far south. The SBC schools are happier about Shelby leaving than Shelby is happy to be out of the SBC. Again, what's you're point? Shelby did not vote to allow 2 schools to join a current league they were a member of. They did not take 5 other schools with them to get away from the 3 largest schools in the league they were in. Never said they did. Just used Shelby's tenure in the SBC as a comparison of how much notice the N10 schools gave the others when they left the NCC when it was said that they left "virtually right away" after admitting Galion and Upper to the NCC."How long should a school have to wait to play in a different league". In the case of the N-10, a single school wasn't waiting to join a new league. SIX members of a league left the other 4 members of the league, causing it's demise, to form a NEW league. How many schools should be allowed to leave a league at one time? Any rules broken? Who gets to decide, You?I'm shocked you have the gall to mention Upper and the MOAC. Six NCC schools ran away from Upper, then in desperation 2 years later approved them as a new member. Obviously, the N10 has never been "desperate" about filling vacancies. Upper was the one desperate to leave the MOAC. Should the N10 have denied them when Upper inquired about the Riverdale vacancy?There is ABSOLUTELY no comparison between what the single school Shelby has done to what the 6 of 10 NCC schools did. As mentioned above, Shelby and NU were mentioned only to illustrate the notice given by the N10 schools to the NCC compared to others. Not making judgment on anyone. What do you think Shelby has "done"? See responses to Fact Teller's twisting of the facts above in bold. I'm done with this subject on this thread, everyone can form their own opinion, obviously I have mine.Well said. Agree.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Aug 1, 2017 1:22:38 GMT -5
My point is that you ONLY mentioned that the N10 announced it's intentions in 2011. I pointed out that there was A LOT going on with the 6 schools that left the 4, LONG before 2011. You shrewdly failed to mention all that took place long before the announcement in 2011 in your time line. If would read carefully you would see there has been NOTHING said about illegalities.
You wrongly tried to compare what Shelby singularly did, MOVING from an existing league to another existing league. With what SIX schools from one league did to create a completely new league. Two divergent situations. You must look far and wide over decades to find a true comparison for how the N10 was created. Shelby is a VERY poor comparison.
"Virtually right away" is a rather undefined innocuous estimation.
How silly of you, you know full well as I, that there are no rules covering the number of schools leaving a league at one time. HOWEVER, the consequences of 60% of the schools in a league leaving for the sole purpose of creating a new league is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than when 5%, (1) school, leaves a league to JOIN another existing league. AGAIN a VERY poor comparison on your part. Oh facetious one, I'm not deciding anything, just the purveyor of data and pointing out your VERY poor comparisons.
When a league only has 2 schools interested in filling an opening and the one chosen just 2 years prior was left behind to facilitate a much better league situation, it might not be desperation, but is embarrassing at the least. How often is one kicked to the curb, then 2 years later picked up, brushed off and loving brought back into the fold? Please give us an example of a similar occurrence. It was the N-10 that caused Upper's desperation, by not allowing/wanting them in the N-10 initially, two years before.
For the third time! Comparing the Shelby/NU new league moves is a VERY poor comparison to the demise of the NCC in order to create the N-10. The same week that NU announced they were leaving the MOAC Shelby announced they were leaving the SBC to join the MOAC. Compare that to what took place in the NCC/N10 situation. There were MANY months of private conversations among 3 of the 6 that left the NCC. THEN 3 other NCC schools were talked to about joining those 3. Then MANY phone calls with other schools looking for 4 more schools to join the NCC 6. THEN there were many meetings between the final 10 doing their due diligence to create a NEW league, knowing the repercussions. FINALLY many months after the initial private conversations an announcement was made. Planting the seed of succession from the NCC was done LONG before the announcement date. LONG before Galion and Upper played their first game in the NCC.
It is not what I "think" Shelby has done, it is what EVERYONE knows what Shelby has done. AGAIN, in the same week NU announced they were leaving the MOAC, Shelby announces they were leaving the SBC to fill the opening in the MOAC. PLEASE, take a moment with a clear and honest mind and do a true comparison of that to the many machinations that took place over a six month period, first by 3, then by 6, finally by 10, to do what was required to create a NEW league of 10 schools.
You proved no twisting, I thank for confirming your unreasonable comparisons.
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