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MOAC 2021
Apr 19, 2021 22:37:23 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 22:37:23 GMT -5
They’ve contacted or will be contacting the N10. Here is where the discussion on pleasant leaving started |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Apr 19, 2021 22:37:51 GMT -5
But yet they got out, same with CF in the OCC as someone mentioned. Although this conversation started when someone mentioned them inquiring to the N10 right now if I'm not mistaken When Orville stopped graduating college talent then their enrollment became an issue and they looked to leave. The CF move was driven by the football coach and his supporters. Many of the CF coaches liked the OCC. Most of the coaches did not. By goblogym's definition of "compete", Clear Fork never did in any sport. |
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MOAC 2021
Apr 20, 2021 5:30:04 GMT -5
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Post by pirate80 on Apr 20, 2021 5:30:04 GMT -5
But yet they got out, same with CF in the OCC as someone mentioned. Although this conversation started when someone mentioned them inquiring to the N10 right now if I'm not mistaken Actually this conversation got started when pirate80, said he felt sorry for Pleasant. Which was rather odd, coming from someone that Pleasant thumped on a regular basis That, they certainly did. But even though I do not like Pleasant, I always admired what they built there. I don't think that's odd. I loathe the Patriots and Steelers too... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2021 6:40:02 GMT -5
When Orville stopped graduating college talent then their enrollment became an issue and they looked to leave. The CF move was driven by the football coach and his supporters. Many of the CF coaches liked the OCC. Most of the coaches did not. By goblogym's definition of "compete", Clear Fork never did in any sport. And how would you define compete? Also, schools would prefer to have their school in a conference where their kids can compete for league titles more years than they wouldn't. That is a fact, so you also have to take into consideration other sports other than football for many schools when they look to leave a conference. SO, if Martinez is right, and Pleasant is or has inquired to the N10, how have they fared in the new look MOAC in all sports? Why would they even look at the N10 if they didn't feel like the MOAC is the best fit for them? |
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MOAC 2021
Apr 20, 2021 6:58:59 GMT -5
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Post by fanofthegame on Apr 20, 2021 6:58:59 GMT -5
First, nobody has presented any credible evidence that Pleasant is thinking about leaving, so my next comment is not directed at them.
Enrollment is a convenient excuse to leave a league when a team has had a few bad years. It’s credible because you can’t argue numbers. It seems like a good reason. What people need to ask is why were you competitive 2, 3, 4 years ago and what has changed? Fix that problem and a league change is unnecessary. Or take the easy route and play smaller schools.
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Post by ohioraised on Apr 20, 2021 7:10:01 GMT -5
Would someone let this arrogant creep know that Clear Fork won 14 OCC titles during their short time in the league. They regularly competed in most sports. And for his information, at the meetings where leaving the OCC was discussed, most coaches were not for leaving. The most vocal coach and his fans were and the minority won. By percentage, most coaches did not.
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MOAC 2021
Apr 20, 2021 7:29:32 GMT -5
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Post by fanofthegame on Apr 20, 2021 7:29:32 GMT -5
Would someone let this arrogant creep know that Clear Fork won 14 OCC titles during their short time in the league. They regularly competed in most sports. And for his information, at the meetings where leaving the OCC was discussed, most coaches were not for leaving. The most vocal coach and his fans were and the minority won. By percentage, most coaches did not. Can you clarify who the arrogant creep is? |
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Post by ohioraised on Apr 20, 2021 7:40:55 GMT -5
The Ontario fan who argues with everyone and corrects almost every post he reads with a claim that he is being informative. The guy who claimed Clear Fork never competed in any sport in the OCC and that most coaches wanted out.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2021 8:13:02 GMT -5
First, nobody has presented any credible evidence that Pleasant is thinking about leaving, so my next comment is not directed at them. Enrollment is a convenient excuse to leave a league when a team has had a few bad years. It’s credible because you can’t argue numbers. It seems like a good reason. What people need to ask is why were you competitive 2, 3, 4 years ago and what has changed? Fix that problem and a league change is unnecessary. Or take the easy route and play smaller schools. I don't disagree, a lot of times... if schools evaluated how you suggested, they should be able to find solutions to the problems that may plague competitiveness However, as I mentioned, for many schools, they are also looking at all sports not just always revenue sports. However, if they were to inquire about leaving the league, it wouldn't surprise me. I feel like the constant shifting of leagues will continue to be commonplace now, so these things will always pop up. I thought the MOAC would be the most stable league in the aread to be honest. I think the SBC Lake is also one that is pretty solid. OCC and SBC Bay always seem to be on a knifes edge of collapse or needing to find band aid replacements |
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Post by dude on Apr 20, 2021 12:30:55 GMT -5
First, nobody has presented any credible evidence that Pleasant is thinking about leaving, so my next comment is not directed at them. Enrollment is a convenient excuse to leave a league when a team has had a few bad years. It’s credible because you can’t argue numbers. It seems like a good reason. What people need to ask is why were you competitive 2, 3, 4 years ago and what has changed? Fix that problem and a league change is unnecessary. Or take the easy route and play smaller schools. What if the major thing that has changed in the last 5 years is your league. Then can you leave because you are the smallest school? |
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MOAC 2021
Apr 20, 2021 15:01:41 GMT -5
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Post by fanofthegame on Apr 20, 2021 15:01:41 GMT -5
First, nobody has presented any credible evidence that Pleasant is thinking about leaving, so my next comment is not directed at them. Enrollment is a convenient excuse to leave a league when a team has had a few bad years. It’s credible because you can’t argue numbers. It seems like a good reason. What people need to ask is why were you competitive 2, 3, 4 years ago and what has changed? Fix that problem and a league change is unnecessary. Or take the easy route and play smaller schools. What if the major thing that has changed in the last 5 years is your league. Then can you leave because you are the smallest school? If you’re in a previously stable league that brings in two or more significantly larger schools it would be fair to move on. Significantly bigger in my mind is significantly bigger than the largest team in the existing league. Keep in mind every school has a vote when bringing new teams into a league. I don’t know how most leagues function whether a vote on new members has to be a majority or unanimous. |
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Post by dude on Apr 20, 2021 21:58:42 GMT -5
What if the major thing that has changed in the last 5 years is your league. Then can you leave because you are the smallest school? If you’re in a previously stable league that brings in two or more significantly larger schools it would be fair to move on. Significantly bigger in my mind is significantly bigger than the largest team in the existing league. Keep in mind every school has a vote when bringing new teams into a league. I don’t know how most leagues function whether a vote on new members has to be a majority or unanimous. If you are in a stable league you would not be bringing in 2 schools. Every school has or had a vote in the NOL, OCC, NCC, SBC and KMAC as well. Just like the MOAC does and yet each of them have all gone thru changes when teams became unhappy. Being a small team in a league is the entire reason the N10 was formed. Enrollment is the reason the MOAC will soon have 8 teams. It's the reason the OCC is at 7 and the reason the NOL merged with the SBC. MAny schools in the area have used enrollment to explain their choices. |
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MOAC 2021
Apr 20, 2021 22:20:18 GMT -5
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Post by fanofthegame on Apr 20, 2021 22:20:18 GMT -5
If you’re in a previously stable league that brings in two or more significantly larger schools it would be fair to move on. Significantly bigger in my mind is significantly bigger than the largest team in the existing league. Keep in mind every school has a vote when bringing new teams into a league. I don’t know how most leagues function whether a vote on new members has to be a majority or unanimous. If you are in a stable league you would not be bringing in 2 schools. Every school has or had a vote in the NOL, OCC, NCC, SBC and KMAC as well. Just like the MOAC does and yet each of them have all gone thru changes when teams became unhappy. Being a small team in a league is the entire reason the N10 was formed. Enrollment is the reason the MOAC will soon have 8 teams. It's the reason the OCC is at 7 and the reason the NOL merged with the SBC. MAny schools in the area have used enrollment to explain their choices. I agree. Everyone USES it. I’m just suggesting enrolling isn’t at the top of the list for why a school becomes less competitive. There are many examples of smaller schools holding their own in leagues with larger enrollment. The disparity in size for most leagues is no more than two divisions. Practically that’s two, maybe three, real contributors per grade. |
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Post by dude on Apr 20, 2021 22:41:44 GMT -5
If you are in a stable league you would not be bringing in 2 schools. Every school has or had a vote in the NOL, OCC, NCC, SBC and KMAC as well. Just like the MOAC does and yet each of them have all gone thru changes when teams became unhappy. Being a small team in a league is the entire reason the N10 was formed. Enrollment is the reason the MOAC will soon have 8 teams. It's the reason the OCC is at 7 and the reason the NOL merged with the SBC. MAny schools in the area have used enrollment to explain their choices. I agree. Everyone USES it. I’m just suggesting enrolling isn’t at the top of the list for why a school becomes less competitive. There are many examples of smaller schools holding their own in leagues with larger enrollment. The disparity in size for most leagues is no more than two divisions. Practically that’s two, maybe three, real contributors per grade. In this specific case, having an extra 6-10 very good athletes can make a tremendous difference for a DV school. |
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Post by fanofthegame on Apr 21, 2021 6:59:14 GMT -5
I agree. Everyone USES it. I’m just suggesting enrolling isn’t at the top of the list for why a school becomes less competitive. There are many examples of smaller schools holding their own in leagues with larger enrollment. The disparity in size for most leagues is no more than two divisions. Practically that’s two, maybe three, real contributors per grade. In this specific case, having an extra 6-10 very good athletes can make a tremendous difference for a DV school. I think we pretty much agree, but to this point if we go high end and say 10 extra athletes half are 14 or 15 (freshman and sophomores). Per WF they don’t even have hair on their legs so they probably shouldn’t be on a varsity field. Not saying sophomores can’t contribute on varsity, but it’s the exception and if you have to do that regularly then your program already has problems. So five physically ready extra football players if you are a division or two bigger. I’m not saying that’s insignificant. Every coach would take five extra contributing athletes, but that’s not why a team struggles in a league. They struggle because of a natural ebb and flow of talent, coaching instability, facing a rival who has a talented class or two. Buckle down and elevate your game. |
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Post by dude on Apr 21, 2021 7:48:02 GMT -5
In this specific case, having an extra 6-10 very good athletes can make a tremendous difference for a DV school. I think we pretty much agree, but to this point if we go high end and say 10 extra athletes half are 14 or 15 (freshman and sophomores). Per WF they don’t even have hair on their legs so they probably shouldn’t be on a varsity field. Not saying sophomores can’t contribute on varsity, but it’s the exception and if you have to do that regularly then your program already has problems. So five physically ready extra football players if you are a division or two bigger. I’m not saying that’s insignificant. Every coach would take five extra contributing athletes, but that’s not why a team struggles in a league. They struggle because of a natural ebb and flow of talent, coaching instability, facing a rival who has a talented class or two. Buckle down and elevate your game. "leg hair" hahahahahahahaha More and more kids are getting their licenses before the end of their freshman year so those kids are 15-16 and in a smaller school a seeing a soph on varsity is common. Even a good freshman can be seen in supporting roles in smaller schools. I'm not saying they would be All-Ohio but it can make a difference in a program's life if you have 5 freshman and sophs seeing varsity practice and minutes. But what matters for every team is, are their freshman and sophs on varsity because you need wholes filled or are they good enough to get minutes from a junior or senior? I agree with you that it is not about the competition, it's about themselves, but a D4 school can have over 140 more boys than a D5 school. It CAN matter over years. I'm not saying don't play them as I think most should. Danville a few years ago had a beast for a QB and they were tough. Remove that one kid and the team changes terribly. Smaller schools a single kid can change things. IMO |
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Post by richrod on Apr 21, 2021 8:56:01 GMT -5
In this specific case, having an extra 6-10 very good athletes can make a tremendous difference for a DV school. I think we pretty much agree, but to this point if we go high end and say 10 extra athletes half are 14 or 15 (freshman and sophomores). Per WF they don’t even have hair on their legs so they probably shouldn’t be on a varsity field. Not saying sophomores can’t contribute on varsity, but it’s the exception and if you have to do that regularly then your program already has problems. So five physically ready extra football players if you are a division or two bigger. I’m not saying that’s insignificant. Every coach would take five extra contributing athletes, but that’s not why a team struggles in a league. They struggle because of a natural ebb and flow of talent, coaching instability, facing a rival who has a talented class or two. Buckle down and elevate your game. I've been reading this thread, and the leg hair comment is pretty damn funny haha. You are spot on with all of this as well. There are many contributing factors to being non competitive outside of enrollment disparity |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Apr 21, 2021 19:55:33 GMT -5
The Ontario fan who argues with everyone and corrects almost every post he reads with a claim that he is being informative. The guy who claimed Clear Fork never competed in any sport in the OCC and that most coaches wanted out. The guy's claim was based on what another poster's definition of "compete" is, to point out the discrepancy, which was proffered. It was that a team had to finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd every year and had to finish 1st some years. That guy's own definition of "compete" is, if noticed, finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd, but not every year and never having to finish 1st. Read carefully before poking sharp stick in eye |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Apr 21, 2021 20:05:13 GMT -5
I think we pretty much agree, but to this point if we go high end and say 10 extra athletes half are 14 or 15 (freshman and sophomores). Per WF they don’t even have hair on their legs so they probably shouldn’t be on a varsity field. Not saying sophomores can’t contribute on varsity, but it’s the exception and if you have to do that regularly then your program already has problems. So five physically ready extra football players if you are a division or two bigger. I’m not saying that’s insignificant. Every coach would take five extra contributing athletes, but that’s not why a team struggles in a league. They struggle because of a natural ebb and flow of talent, coaching instability, facing a rival who has a talented class or two. Buckle down and elevate your game. I've been reading this thread, and the leg hair comment is pretty damn funny haha. You are spot on with all of this as well. There are many contributing factors to being non competitive outside of enrollment disparity The leg hair quote came from one the most successful and long tenured coaches in this area, Rob Sheldon. |
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MOAC 2021
Apr 21, 2021 20:33:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 20:33:46 GMT -5
The Ontario fan who argues with everyone and corrects almost every post he reads with a claim that he is being informative. The guy who claimed Clear Fork never competed in any sport in the OCC and that most coaches wanted out. The guy's claim was based on what another poster's definition of "compete" is, to point out the discrepancy, which was proffered. It was that a team had to finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd every year and had to finish 1st some years. That guy's own definition of "compete" is, if noticed, finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd, but not every year and never having to finish 1st. Read carefully before poking sharp stick in eye How would you define compete? |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Apr 22, 2021 10:11:57 GMT -5
Just did. I'm fine with top half of league most years, when describing "competing". Not wanting to be too specific, to pigeon hole specific schools or specific leagues.
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MOAC 2021
Apr 22, 2021 11:09:58 GMT -5
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Post by fanofthegame on Apr 22, 2021 11:09:58 GMT -5
I've been reading this thread, and the leg hair comment is pretty damn funny haha. You are spot on with all of this as well. There are many contributing factors to being non competitive outside of enrollment disparity The leg hair quote came from one the most successful and long tenured coaches in this area, Rob Sheldon. Just bustin’ your chops, WF. There is validity to the observation. Hairy legs equals puberty. That means muscle and the end of vertical growth. Just saying you’re looking at high school boys legs sounded creepy. That’s why you’ll never live it down. |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Apr 22, 2021 12:03:02 GMT -5
That was the reasoning Rob gave me. I wasn't the one looking at legs, he was. And it wasn't in high school. He used it as a criteria to cut or not to cut on last roster spots in Junior High.
Don't care about chop busting, just seeking accuracy.
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Post by runriot742 on May 1, 2021 22:57:00 GMT -5
Clear Fork has hired a new defensive coordinator. A Wapakoneta graduate. He will also coach DB's and Qb's. According to sources, Clear Fork will be going to a 4-3. Consequently, they will be switching to an even front. He's also rather young, but I hope this will bring just what we need to the valley!
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Post by shelbyrr11 on May 2, 2021 11:28:28 GMT -5
I am curious to know what other leagues have undergone a transformation like the MOAC. Most leagues with so much turnover wind up adopting a new name. The NOL (at the time) and the SBC (currently) have had their changes, but predominantly held on to the "core" pieces.
The MOAC stands out to me because I personally could reserve a possibility that it winds up 90-100% non-charter members in the next 5-10 years (technically 90% isn't feasible with fewer than 10 teams, but look at the forest, not the trees in that statement). That usually leads to impetus to a name change, but the MOAC has been replacing boards of its ship one at a time gradually enough to avoid this. Also, Moe-Ack is more fun to say than the SBC. I have a minor lisp. It matters.
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Post by wallacefan on May 2, 2021 11:44:59 GMT -5
Changing the name of a conference is a big hassle. You have to pay a lawyer to get it registered with the State of Ohio and put together an entirely new conference name, logos, constitution, bylaws, stationary, etc.
Then on top of paying for all that, you then have to get ALL of it agreed to and approved by the OHSAA.
It's a pain and the rear and a waste of money. And a process. They are wise to keep the name, and not deal with all that wasted money and hassle.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on May 2, 2021 11:52:34 GMT -5
Highland a "charter member" is coming back to the MOAC next year and I've heard another would like to come back. Currently it's only a rumor that Pleasant would like to leave. Even so, there is no where for them to go. The only school that has shown any interest in joining the MOAC is Lex. So I don't see much change in the future.
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MOAC 2021
May 2, 2021 12:26:27 GMT -5
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Post by pirate80 on May 2, 2021 12:26:27 GMT -5
Highland a "charter member" is coming back to the MOAC next year and I've heard another would like to come back. Currently it's only a rumor that Pleasant would like to leave. Even so, there is no where form them to go. The only school that has shown any interest in joining the MOAC is Lex. So I don't see much change in the future. BV the one that you're hearing wanting to come back? |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on May 2, 2021 19:16:36 GMT -5
Highland a "charter member" is coming back to the MOAC next year and I've heard another would like to come back. Currently it's only a rumor that Pleasant would like to leave. Even so, there is no where form them to go. The only school that has shown any interest in joining the MOAC is Lex. So I don't see much change in the future. BV the one that you're hearing wanting to come back? yep, some had no idea the hassles that traveling in Columbus traffic would entail, and it's only going to get worse. |
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MOAC 2021
May 2, 2021 20:06:58 GMT -5
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Post by pirate80 on May 2, 2021 20:06:58 GMT -5
Yeah, their move to that conference at least, never made sense.
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