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Post by Vogel on Oct 21, 2021 9:38:59 GMT -5
Coaching is huge. Here's the yearly basketball record of a certain school in the area, and I'll withhold the coaches names because I'm told I'm "mean" when I list their names. 1966 - 15-6 - Coach 0 - 3rd in NOL 1967 - 15-6 - Coach 0 - 3rd in NOL 1968 - 14-6 - Coach 0 - NOL Champs1969 - 5-14 - Coach 1 - 6th in NOL 1970 - 7-13 - Coach 2 - 6th in NOL 1971 - 8-13 - Coach 2 - 6th in NOL 1972 - 14-6 - Coach 3 - 2nd in NOL - quick turnaround 1973 - 19-1 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1974 - 16-5 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1975 - 19-4 - Coach 3 - 2nd in NOL 1976 - 21-2 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1977 - 16-5 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1978 - 15-5 - Coach 3 - 2nd in NOL 1979 - 22-2 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1980 - 26-1 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1981 - 25-1 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1982 - 26-1 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1983 - 21-4 - Coach 3 - 2nd in NOL 1984 - 25-2 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1985 - 19-5 - Coach 3 - 2nd in NOL 1986 - 23-2 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1987 - 20-6 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1988 - 19-3 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1989 - 19-3 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1990 - 13-8 - Coach 3 - 3rd in NOL - worst season in 22 years 1991 - 20-1 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1992 - 21-5 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1993 - 22-2 - Coach 3 - NOL Champs 1994 - 9-12 - Coach 4 - 4th in NOL - quick dropoff 1995 - 4-17 - Coach 4 - 7th in NOL 1996 - 8-13 - Coach 4 - 5th in NOL 1997 - 3-18 - Coach 4 - 8th in NOL 1998 - 4-17 - Coach 4 - 7th in NOL 1999 - 14-7 - Coach 5 - 2nd in NOL - quick turnaround 2000 - 22-3 - Coach 5 - NOL Champs 2001 - 24-2 - Coach 5 - NOL Champs 2002 - 18-5 - Coach 5 - NOL Champs 2003 - 21-4 - Coach 5 - NOL Champs. . . you get the point Some coaches have all the luck. 22 straight year of great talent with no drop off. Then the talent completely leaves for 5 years under the next coach, then magically appears again for the following coach. lol. I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you if you think that's true. You either have it as a coach or you don't.
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Post by dude on Oct 21, 2021 9:40:03 GMT -5
Some very good examples but I have an honest question. In the past 15 seasons, how many head football coaches has Willard had and what are their length of stay?
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Post by woods on Oct 21, 2021 14:04:28 GMT -5
woods, you sound like a failed ex-coach. You want some High School football. Here you go bud. I can go on and on. It doesn't take 10 years to turn a program around. Great coaches when they are coaching great do it really quick. Chris HawkinsWynford1992 - 3-7 1993 - 2-8 1994 - 8-3 - Hawkins 1st year 1995 - 8-2 - Hawkins 2nd year - NCC Champs Oh, that was a quick turnaround. Chris Hawkins Willard1997 - 2-8 1998 - 3-7 1999 - 10-2 - Hawkins 1st year - NOL Champs Oh, that was a quick turnaround Chris Hawkins Galion2002 - 1-9 2003 - 0-10 2004 - 0-10 2005 - 1-9 2006 - 1-9 2007 - 1-9 - Hawkins 1st year 2008 - 5-5 - Hawkins 2nd year 2009 - 10-1 - Hawkins 3rd year - NOL Champs Ed Nasonti Bellevue1988 - 4-6 1989 - 6-4 1990 - 3-7 1991 - 8-2 - Nasonti's 1st year - NOL Champs 1992 - 9-1 - Nasonti's 2nd year - NOL Champs 1993 - 11-1 - Nasonti's 3rd year - NOL Champs Steve Gilbert Tiffin Columbian1990 - 2-8 1991 - 3-7 1992 - 0-10 1993 - 3-7 - Gilbert's 1st year 1994 - 8-2 - Gilbert's 2nd year 1995 - 9-1 - Gilbert's 3rd year - NOL Champs 1996 - 8-2 - Gilbert's 4th year - NOL Champs Bob Hart Norwalk1961 - 1-8 1962 - 3-6 1963 - 1-6-2 1964 - 1-7-1 1965 - 4-5 1966 - 2-8 1967 - 0-10 1968 - 1-9 1969 - 4-6 1970 - 6-3 - ooh a winning record 1971 - 2-7-1 1972 - 2-7-1 - Hart's 1st year 1973 - 6-4 - Hart's 2nd year 1974 - 11-1 Hart's 3rd year - STATE Champs Again, everything from 12 years ago. And with all your statistics and how impactful a coach "should" be in year one and two you should make your way to AD office and apply for the Flashes Head Coaching Job! Excited to see you take them to the next level in 2 short years buddy!
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Oct 21, 2021 17:44:00 GMT -5
woods.
People who read data and detect patterns are different than those who coach x's and o's and build up foundations. There is value to the skillset.
The Boston Red Sox went 86 years without winning a World Series.
In 2002 (year 84 of the drought), the Red Sox got new ownership with John Henry being the ringleader. John Henry had a background in corn and soybean futures, in which he developed a "mechanical" method (i.e. statistical method) for predicting the futures market that went successfully enough for him to start his own trading firm. It was how he built his fortune.
In 2003 (year 85 of the drought), John Henry hired Bill James. Bill James was a baseball stat-head who got wide notoriety in the Moneyball book/movie. Baseball thought he was a quack despite his many statistical publications on how the game behaved on a statistical level. After all, how could a man with no formal baseball experience in any coaching or front office capacity know what he was doing? John Henry, as a stat-head himself, took the dive on Bill James.
In 2004, the Red Sox won the World Series.
In 2007, the Red Sox won the World Series.
In 2013, the Red Sox won the World Series.
In 2018, the Red Sox won the World Series.
Today, the Red Sox are playing in the ALCS.
The New York Yankees have retained the same GM since 1998, Brian Cashman. They have had the Steinbrenner family as owners for quite some time. All of a sudden, as soon as calculators got involved in Boston, the Yankees only have one World Series title, in 2009. If the Red Sox win the World Series this year, they will have as many World Series titles as the Yankees since 1978.
I don't think Bill James or John Henry could step on the field and successfully coach a team. They know how to analyze a team from above.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Oct 21, 2021 17:53:49 GMT -5
Here's a recent high school football example: Tiger LaVerde at Kirtland.
2000 - 4-6 2001 - 1-9 2002 - 5-5 2003 - 4-6 2004 - 7-3 2005 - 4-6 -------------- 2006 - 8-3 (Tiger's first year at Kirtland) 2007 - 8-3 2008 - 12-1 2009 - 7-3 2010 - 12-1 2011 - 15-0 State Champs (over Coldwater) 2012 - 14-1 State Runner-Ups (lost to Coldwater 10-9) 2013 - 15-0 State Champs 2014 - 14-1 State Runner-Ups (lost to Minster 46-42) 2015 - 14-1 State Champs (over Marion Local) 2016 - 11-2 (lost twice to Cuyahoga Heights, who lost to Marion Local in the state finals, 21-17) 2017 - 14-1 State Runner-Ups (lost to Marion Local) ----------- 2018 - 15-0 State Champs (over Marion Local) 2019 - 15-0 State Champs 2020 - 11-0 State Champs 2021 - 8-0, and formally the holder for the longest active win streak in the USA despite being one of the very smallest D5 schools in Ohio from 2019 on.
Similar stories can be found in Coldwater and Marion Local, teams that have had consistent coaching at the helm.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Oct 21, 2021 18:02:37 GMT -5
Local example with Scott Spitler at Lucas.
2007 - 3-7 2008 - 1-9 2009 - 3-7 -------------- 2010 - 2-8 (Scott's first year at Lucas) 2011 - 4-6 2012 - 3-7 2013 - 4-6 2014 - 7-5 2015 - 11-2 2016 - 7-4 2017 - 8-3 2018 - 10-3 2019 - 12-3 State Runner-Ups (lost to Marion Local 2020 - 7-3 Regional Finalists 2021 - 7-1
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Post by maplecityjake on Oct 21, 2021 18:20:37 GMT -5
woods. People who read data and detect patterns are different than those who coach x's and o's and build up foundations. There is value to the skillset. The Boston Red Sox went 86 years without winning a World Series. In 2002 (year 84 of the drought), the Red Sox got new ownership with John Henry being the ringleader. John Henry had a background in corn and soybean futures, in which he developed a "mechanical" method (i.e. statistical method) for predicting the futures market that went successfully enough for him to start his own trading firm. It was how he built his fortune. In 2003 (year 85 of the drought), John Henry hired Bill James. Bill James was a baseball stat-head who got wide notoriety in the Moneyball book/movie. Baseball thought he was a quack despite his many statistical publications on how the game behaved on a statistical level. After all, how could a man with no formal baseball experience in any coaching or front office capacity know what he was doing? John Henry, as a stat-head himself, took the dive on Bill James. In 2004, the Red Sox won the World Series. In 2007, the Red Sox won the World Series. In 2013, the Red Sox won the World Series. In 2018, the Red Sox won the World Series. Today, the Red Sox are playing in the ALCS. The New York Yankees have retained the same GM since 1998, Brian Cashman. They have had the Steinbrenner family as owners for quite some time. All of a sudden, as soon as calculators got involved in Boston, the Yankees only have one World Series title, in 2009. If the Red Sox win the World Series this year, they will have as many World Series titles as the Yankees since 1978. I don't think Bill James or John Henry could step on the field and successfully coach a team. They know how to analyze a team from above. Interesting you use Red Sox. 2004, it took a Yankees 3-0 lead choke 2007, it took a 3-1 Cleveland collapse who had Game 5 in backyard to try to seal deal. 2013, whole city rallied behind Boston Marathon Massacre 2018, rumblings Organization cheated as well. And, when BoSox weren't "winning" World Series, they were lucky to be a 75 win club
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Oct 21, 2021 18:35:36 GMT -5
In non World Series seasons since 2004, the Red Sox averaged 86.5 wins over 12 such seasons (excluding 2020). In the years they came in last place, they had 69, 71, and 78 wins. % adjust 2020 and they had 64.5 wins, but plenty of teams across all sports through in the towel in 2020. Chris Sale had Tommy John surgery in 2020, for example.
Baseball is a game of inches. Skill gets you to the playoffs, luck gets you all the way through them. Luck tends to favor the skilled, however. In 2004, the Red Sox had an 11-8 record against the Yankees in the regular season. No team had seen Mariano Rivera over the 2003-2004 seasons as much as that core of Red Sox batters. They knew how to play the cutter.
It isn't Boston's fault that the other teams choked in the playoffs. Win your games. Cleveland is another great example of a franchise ran well - no one has done quite as much with as little as Cleveland over the past decade. It helps to have more money, but that isn't the end-all be-all. It isn't a huge coincidence that Terry Francona has been leading the charge in Cleveland - he did well in Boston.
In 2011, the Red Sox were a 90 win team that went 7-20 in September. A collapse as great as they come, but still a team built with good numbers.
In 2012, the Red Sox had Bobby Valentine as manager. The team hated him. It killed the energy. He lasted one year.
In 2013, I don't remember the city pulling fans out of the stadium to pitch against the Detroit Tigers who had three CY Young winners on their ALCS team (Verlander, Scherzer, Porcello).
I'd argue the Houston Astros were much more blatantly cheating in the playoffs against Boston in 2017 and 2018 than the Red Sox were. Just me. The Red Sox played a little with smartwatches. Houston was running a scheme that Bernie Madoff would've been proud of. Sure, our players in 2004 had some steroid nonsense going on. So did New York. Our roided up guys beat their roided up guys.
For context, I was born in Providence, RI. My mom was a lifelong Shelbilly who married a lifelong Rhode Islander. We moved back to Shelby when I was 2 years old after the cost-of-living math dramatically screamed to move back to Shelby. My parents split our fandoms. My dad pulled us towards the Sox, my mom pulled us towards the Browns. In the 90s, this was a fair deal. I actually lost most of my Red Sox passion after going to school in New England and realizing how ungrateful the Boston fans were with the success they had. I had the context of Cleveland misery growing up to make me value every win. When I realized my Red Sox fan peers lacked that same context, it wasn't fun. Spoiled bunch, the lot. My fandom these days is directly tied towards watching Yankee fans get moody whenever Boston wins. I think we can all agree that is always a fun thing to watch happen.
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Post by maplecityjake on Oct 21, 2021 18:57:49 GMT -5
Just another point of view...
I see Gilbert/TC as an example.
Prior HC was John Tomazewski.
His 1st 3 teams were 11-1, 7-3, and 7-4. All of them NOL champs(share with Galion, 1989). 1987 quite arguably best TC team ever. Then, 3-7, 2-8, 0-10. Did he become dumb overnight?
What was Hawkins record last year in Willard? I don't recall it being good. I do know Noss' record last couple years, and it was 17-28. Did he become dumb overnight? Did Lyle Falknor or become dumb overnight at Bellevue?
My favorite example...Dick Cromwell. Was a State Championship caliber HC at Toledo St. Francis. He left after 1984 Division I Title team(trivia, who was only team to beat them that year?) to become Findlay HC. Findlay, from 70s-1984 was a 7 win Program. Cromwell's record from 85-88? 14-26. Then, went back to St. Francis again leading then to State Championship caliber. He's a genius at St. Francis, but couldn't Coach a lick in Findlay, eh?
Do I think Coaching is important? Yes, but at HS Level I do believe it is more about Jimmy and Joe's.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Oct 21, 2021 19:01:54 GMT -5
I think that can go a certain way at the HS level.
Winning can become tedious, if not boring if you wear out your welcome. The "disease of more" is something that corrupts many successful pro teams. That or the Jimmy and Joe's outstripped a lot of actual talent that the coach had. Even Brad Pitt got sick of Jennifer Aniston and Angelina Jolie (or perhaps the other way around). Being at the top requires a certain intensity. Schwemley at Shelby (in basketball) had some great teams early on (and some great players). Eventually, the winning moderated to a certain level. Some have their fill and decide it's good enough. It's hard to know what goes on in a coach's head once they get a taste of glory. I'm sure it's the same as people who are lifers at a company vs. those who high-fly for a few years and then decide to go off and do something else. Not everyone can ride the bull perpetually.
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Post by maplecityjake on Oct 21, 2021 19:07:12 GMT -5
I've also seen longtime successful Coaches leave because they saw the writing on the wall. Then, their successors are fall guys
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 7:07:09 GMT -5
Willard's, And South Central's Marching Bands are on "Kicking it with Kenny" On Fox 8 News,This morning, Those kids must've had to get up really early to leave Huron County, Get all the way into Cleveland, And be in uniform at the Rock Hall, All by 8 am. That's some good responsibility, and discipline, They should be pooped for tonight's Champioship Game.
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Post by clb6110 on Oct 22, 2021 8:02:49 GMT -5
Not to nitpick but I turned on the TV at 7:15am and they were already playing. That's the 1st thing I thought of also,What time did these kids walk out of the door this am?
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Post by crimson5 on Oct 22, 2021 9:09:25 GMT -5
Not to nitpick but I turned on the TV at 7:15am and they were already playing. That's the 1st thing I thought of also,What time did these kids walk out of the door this am? Heard the bus pulled out at 3:45am this morning. Gotta agree with the direction this Band Guy is taking the Flashes musicians. Hear nothing but good things about the guy.....well respected among the students, more respect from his peers. Watched and heard him organizing the band members putting in a last minute rehearsal at about 7:15pm last nite (after the senior football guys dinner), he's good!
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Post by Skip Bayless on Oct 22, 2021 10:57:55 GMT -5
Super Bowl Friday Night. the battle of the bands? if you can make it through the first half, the halftime show should be good
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Post by sbclives on Oct 22, 2021 11:49:19 GMT -5
Super Bowl Friday Night. the battle of the bands? if you can make it through the first half, the halftime show should be good I heard the bleachers are nice too.
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Post by crimson5 on Oct 22, 2021 19:24:00 GMT -5
6-0 willard at half
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Post by ScarletFever on Oct 22, 2021 19:59:43 GMT -5
14-0 Flashes 3q
Spiders in the victory bell may be in for a rude awakening!
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Post by ScarletFever on Oct 22, 2021 20:38:01 GMT -5
Running clock… IN WILLARDS FAVOR
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Post by ScarletFever on Oct 22, 2021 20:45:35 GMT -5
41-6 CRIMSON F
Sets up insanely rare Browns Flashes Buckeyes combo W weekend
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Post by smitty1974 on Oct 22, 2021 20:55:45 GMT -5
wow totally unexpected let alone a willard blowout of the sailors.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 22, 2021 21:10:53 GMT -5
It's amazing what just a little belief in oneself will accomplish.
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Post by ebgames on Oct 22, 2021 21:20:17 GMT -5
The whole "it takes years to turn this program around" mantra is absurd. Sometimes year 1 can be a slow culture change but results should be noticeable by year 2. You just don't find coaches going 0-10, 1-9 in their 1st 2 years getting kids to buy in during year 3. A coach needs to win. Urban MeyerBGSU2000 - 2-9 2001 - 8-3 - Urban's 1st year 2002 - 9-3 - Urban's 2nd year Utah2002 - 5-6 2003 - 10-2 - Urban's 1st year 2004 - 12-0 - Urban's 2nd year Florida2004 - 7-5 2005 - 9-3 - Urban's 1st year 2006 - 13-1 - Urban's 2nd year - National Champs Ohio State2011 - 6-7 2012 - 12-0 - Urban's 1st year 2013 - 12-2 - Urban's 2nd year 2014 - 14-1 - Urban's 3rd year - National Champs Jim Tressel Ohio State1999 - 6-6 2000 - 8-4 2001 - 7-5 - Tressel's 1st year 2002 - 14-0 - Tressel's 2nd year - National Champs Bob StoopsOklahoma1996 - 3-8 1997 - 4-8 1998 - 5-6 1999 - 7-5 - Stoops 1st year 2000 - 13-0 - Stoops 2nd year - National Champs Pete CarrollUSC1999 - 6-6 2000 - 5-7 2001 - 6-6 - Pete's 1st year 2002 - 11-2 - Pete's 2nd year 2003 - 12-1 - Pete's 3rd year 2004 - 13-0 - Pete's 4th year - National Champs Nick Saban LSU1998 - 4-7 1999 - 3-8 2000 - 8-4 - Saban's 1st year 2001 - 10-3 - Saban's 2nd year 2002 - 8-5 - Saban's 3rd year 2003 - 13-1 - Saban's 4th year - National Champs Alabama2006 - 6-7 2007 - 7-6 - Saban's 1st year 2008 - 12-2 - Saban's 2nd year 2009 - 14-0 - Saban's 3rd year - National Champs Paul Brown Massillon1931 - 2-6-2 1932 - 5-4-1 - Brown's 1st year 1933 - 8-2 - Brown's 2nd year 1934 - 9-1 - Brown's 3rd year 1935 - 10-0 - Brown's 4th year 1936 - 10-0 - Brown's 5th year 1937 - 8-1-1 - Brown's 6th year 1938 - 10-0 - Brown's 7th year 1939 - 10-0 - Brown's 8th year 1940 - 10-0 - Brown's 9th year And after Brown set that foundation, Massillon became Massillon for the next 30 years. Ohio State1940 - 4-4 1941 - 6-1-1 - Brown's 1st year 1942 - 9-1 - Brown's 2nd year - National Champs Cleveland Browns1946 - 12-2 - 1st year for Brown and the teams existence - AAFC Champs 1947 - 12-1-1 - 2nd year for Brown - AAFC Champs 1948 - 14-0 - 3rd year for Brown - AAFC Champs 1949 - 9-1-2 - 4th year for Brown - AAFC Champs 1950 - Browns join NFL 1950 - 10-2 - 5th year for Brown - NFL Champs Howard Schnellenberger Miami1975 - 2-8 1976 - 3-8 1977 - 3-8 1978 - 6-5 1979 - 5-6 - Schnelly's 1st year 1980 - 9-3 - Schnelly's 2nd year 1981 - 9-2 - Schnelly's 3rd year 1982 - 7-4 - Schnelly's 4th year 1983 - 11-1 - Schnelly's 5th year - National Champs Miami was just another CFB school and not a National Power before Schnellenberger showed up What a dumb post. Yeah let’s compare Willard’s head coach to the best CFB coaches to ever coach the game. And yes I saw your failed attempt to also compare historically great high school coaches. Guess what? Not every hire is gonna be the best coach in the history of the game. And that doesn’t mean they need fired. You couldn’t do better. Stop talking.
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Post by buckeyekid on Oct 22, 2021 21:32:26 GMT -5
Thats what I'm talkin about !
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 21:49:02 GMT -5
Winning sure is fun, When's the parade in Willard ?
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Post by maplecityjake on Oct 22, 2021 21:56:25 GMT -5
Congratulations to the Flashes!
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tori2
All Conference
2017 Playoff Pick'em Champion
Posts: 312
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Post by tori2 on Oct 23, 2021 5:51:49 GMT -5
Nobody could have called this. Great win for the program.
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Post by maplecityjake on Oct 23, 2021 5:55:43 GMT -5
Nobody could have called this. Great win for the program. now, that's called for!
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Post by ScarletFever on Oct 23, 2021 6:23:07 GMT -5
It's amazing what just a little belief in oneself will accomplish. And with Vermillion as your opponent
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 23, 2021 7:57:42 GMT -5
It's amazing what just a little belief in oneself will accomplish. And with Vermillion as your opponent The reason for the belief. In sports if one doesn't believe they can win, they won't
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