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Post by buckeyekid on Oct 25, 2021 5:28:04 GMT -5
A good system is key I think. If it's working well kids that play "expect" to win and hence they go out for the sport and even put major effort into it during the offseason as well. Talent is important too, but a strong backbone system is the key to longevity of winning.
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Post by ebgames on Oct 25, 2021 11:12:47 GMT -5
Your 3rd screen name is showing. Also - “coaching is obviously a bigger factor”?? How so? Put the 5 best players in the NBA on the same team, with the worst coach and guess what? They win the title. Flip it. Put the 5 worst players in the NBA on the same team with the best coach and guess what? They may not win a single game. Defintely the worst record. So explain how coaching means more. It’s about jimmy’s and Joe’s. Not X’s and O’s and it’s so obvious. Tell me what is so special about the kids in Bellevue that is lacking in the kids in Willard? Does Bellevue have a secret Hitler-like breeding program? Only certain people can marry and have kids. The towns are 15-20 minutes apart. They are likely related to each other at times. Willard clearly has athletic kids. They’ve won a few basketball games along the way. There are overlapping skill sets. Probably wasting our time debating this issue with you. You’ve run out of legitimate comebacks when you’re just accusing us all of being the same person. 1st- I’d like you to address my scenario in my previous comment about the 5 best players/worst coach. If coaches mean more, than why is my scenario true? Because it IS true. 2nd - When a Town has a proven successful program over a period of time, kids get into it a younger age. They go to camps, practice more, the parents push them harder and get them involved in more stuff. More involved in AAU, 7v7 camps, etc. This breeds winning. I don’t have the numbers and I don’t even know where I would find them. But I would almost guarantee that, more often than not, when Bellevue and other said programs have multiple winning seasons over an extended period of time, their middle school programs are also beating the snot out of Willard before they get the high school and start winning. Why is that? Are they winning middle school games because the high school coach is a good coach? No. He’s not at their practices, games, etc. They’re winning because they have more talented players.
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Post by fanofthegame on Oct 25, 2021 12:02:22 GMT -5
Tell me what is so special about the kids in Bellevue that is lacking in the kids in Willard? Does Bellevue have a secret Hitler-like breeding program? Only certain people can marry and have kids. The towns are 15-20 minutes apart. They are likely related to each other at times. Willard clearly has athletic kids. They’ve won a few basketball games along the way. There are overlapping skill sets. Probably wasting our time debating this issue with you. You’ve run out of legitimate comebacks when you’re just accusing us all of being the same person. 1st- I’d like you to address my scenario in my previous comment about the 5 best players/worst coach. If coaches mean more, than why is my scenario true? Because it IS true. 2nd - When a Town has a proven successful program over a period of time, kids get into it a younger age. They go to camps, practice more, the parents push them harder and get them involved in more stuff. More involved in AAU, 7v7 camps, etc. This breeds winning. I don’t have the numbers and I don’t even know where I would find them. But I would almost guarantee that, more often than not, when Bellevue and other said programs have multiple winning seasons over an extended period of time, their middle school programs are also beating the snot out of Willard before they get the high school and start winning. Why is that? Are they winning middle school games because the high school coach is a good coach? No. He’s not at their practices, games, etc. They’re winning because they have more talented players. In your scenario you took the most extreme possible stance. Of course if you take the very best they will always win and the very worst will always lose regardless of who coaches. If you want to apply that to our discussion are you saying Bellevue has the best athletes in the state and Willard the worst? I guarantee you Nasonti is involved at all levels of his successful program. You don’t think he tells his junior high coaches exactly what he expects from them. Chris Solis used to come to 5-6th grade practices at least once a week (we only practiced twice a week) when I coached. He met with us before the season and instructed us on a simplified version of the high school offense. You still haven’t explained to me how Bellevue has better athletes when the communities are 15-20 minutes apart with kids that are likely cousins.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 25, 2021 12:25:41 GMT -5
I think the MAC is a great example of kids buying into a system. You think those tiny little schools are loaded up every year with state championship talent? I highly doubt it. Those kids have long bought into a system that expects to win and have the coaching to get them there. To have that kind of culture is hard to beat and hard to stop. That league every year from top to bottom is great cause everyone has long bought in and it never stopped. Around here the closest to that is Bellevue, Clyde and St. Paul. At those three schools that winning mentality is always there and the support from the community is always there. Have you ever seen a football or basketball roster for St. Henry or Coldwater? You would be shocked at how many 6-4 to 6-6 players you see, and not thin, 230 to 250 year after year. Most of the families over there are of German ancestry with a lot of kids and they stay and reproduce. You see the same names over the years. Their farms have been passed down for hundreds of years. I see nothing like that around here. A big part of why the MAC has success.
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Post by ebgames on Oct 25, 2021 12:33:59 GMT -5
1st- I’d like you to address my scenario in my previous comment about the 5 best players/worst coach. If coaches mean more, than why is my scenario true? Because it IS true. 2nd - When a Town has a proven successful program over a period of time, kids get into it a younger age. They go to camps, practice more, the parents push them harder and get them involved in more stuff. More involved in AAU, 7v7 camps, etc. This breeds winning. I don’t have the numbers and I don’t even know where I would find them. But I would almost guarantee that, more often than not, when Bellevue and other said programs have multiple winning seasons over an extended period of time, their middle school programs are also beating the snot out of Willard before they get the high school and start winning. Why is that? Are they winning middle school games because the high school coach is a good coach? No. He’s not at their practices, games, etc. They’re winning because they have more talented players. In your scenario you took the most extreme possible stance. Of course if you take the very best they will always win and the very worst will always lose regardless of who coaches. If you want to apply that to our discussion are you saying Bellevue has the best athletes in the state and Willard the worst? I guarantee you Nasonti is involved at all levels of his successful program. You don’t think he tells his junior high coaches exactly what he expects from them. Chris Solis used to come to 5-6th grade practices at least once a week (we only practiced twice a week) when I coached. He met with us before the season and instructed us on a simplified version of the high school offense. You still haven’t explained to me how Bellevue has better athletes when the communities are 15-20 minutes apart with kids that are likely cousins. Yes I have. I explained exactly that. You’re not reading.
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Post by maplecityjake on Oct 25, 2021 12:39:35 GMT -5
Bellevue has 5 Reservoirs. It's in the water.
Now the secret is out, if I go fishing and see people wearing Flashes attire....
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Post by ebgames on Oct 25, 2021 12:51:04 GMT -5
1st- I’d like you to address my scenario in my previous comment about the 5 best players/worst coach. If coaches mean more, than why is my scenario true? Because it IS true. 2nd - When a Town has a proven successful program over a period of time, kids get into it a younger age. They go to camps, practice more, the parents push them harder and get them involved in more stuff. More involved in AAU, 7v7 camps, etc. This breeds winning. I don’t have the numbers and I don’t even know where I would find them. But I would almost guarantee that, more often than not, when Bellevue and other said programs have multiple winning seasons over an extended period of time, their middle school programs are also beating the snot out of Willard before they get the high school and start winning. Why is that? Are they winning middle school games because the high school coach is a good coach? No. He’s not at their practices, games, etc. They’re winning because they have more talented players. In your scenario you took the most extreme possible stance. Of course if you take the very best they will always win and the very worst will always lose regardless of who coaches. If you want to apply that to our discussion are you saying Bellevue has the best athletes in the state and Willard the worst? I guarantee you Nasonti is involved at all levels of his successful program. You don’t think he tells his junior high coaches exactly what he expects from them. Chris Solis used to come to 5-6th grade practices at least once a week (we only practiced twice a week) when I coached. He met with us before the season and instructed us on a simplified version of the high school offense. You still haven’t explained to me how Bellevue has better athletes when the communities are 15-20 minutes apart with kids that are likely cousins. And yes, I used the most extreme case. But that’s how you get you answer in these situations: take the most extreme case and see what holds true. It’s absurd to say coaches mean more to success than players. They can make a team better or worse than they actually are, yes. They do matter, of course. But if you don’t have talent, you won’t win. Period. If you don’t have a good coach, you’ll still win with good talent. How is this even debatable?
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Post by styxbb on Oct 25, 2021 13:48:13 GMT -5
Finally read through this thread. I saw nothing in this thread about other factors in the success. # 1 - Administration and School board. If you don't have their 100 % backing, your success is going to be limited. In Norwalk, 33 years....coaching, admin, and board have never been on the same page. In Bellevue, it's football, football, football and then the other sports. Period. I thought Vogel was being funny comparing coaches to the best in NCAA history. Then he compared them to Haas. The one thing Haas had in common with those NCAA greats....He was also a great recruiter. Especially latter half of his stint.
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Post by fanofthegame on Oct 25, 2021 14:57:25 GMT -5
In your scenario you took the most extreme possible stance. Of course if you take the very best they will always win and the very worst will always lose regardless of who coaches. If you want to apply that to our discussion are you saying Bellevue has the best athletes in the state and Willard the worst? I guarantee you Nasonti is involved at all levels of his successful program. You don’t think he tells his junior high coaches exactly what he expects from them. Chris Solis used to come to 5-6th grade practices at least once a week (we only practiced twice a week) when I coached. He met with us before the season and instructed us on a simplified version of the high school offense. You still haven’t explained to me how Bellevue has better athletes when the communities are 15-20 minutes apart with kids that are likely cousins. And yes, I used the most extreme case. But that’s how you get you answer in these situations: take the most extreme case and see what holds true. It’s absurd to say coaches mean more to success than players. They can make a team better or worse than they actually are, yes. They do matter, of course. But if you don’t have talent, you won’t win. Period. If you don’t have a good coach, you’ll still win with good talent. How is this even debatable? Are you familiar with the law of averages. It says that with a big enough sample over a long enough time numbers will average out. What you’re suggesting is that Willard is an outlier. A statistical anomaly. You are saying that in the last ten years they have had no talent. That just doesn’t make sense. On average the same percentage of kids at Willard can run a 4.6 40 as the kids in Bellevue. The same percentage of kids have a 40 inch vertical leap. Now, Bellevue will have more total because they have more kids in the school, but that’s why we have divisions.
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wetsu
All Conference
Posts: 327
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Post by wetsu on Oct 25, 2021 15:20:13 GMT -5
I think the MAC is a great example of kids buying into a system. You think those tiny little schools are loaded up every year with state championship talent? I highly doubt it. Those kids have long bought into a system that expects to win and have the coaching to get them there. To have that kind of culture is hard to beat and hard to stop. That league every year from top to bottom is great cause everyone has long bought in and it never stopped. Around here the closest to that is Bellevue, Clyde and St. Paul. At those three schools that winning mentality is always there and the support from the community is always there. Have you ever seen a football or basketball roster for St. Henry or Coldwater? You would be shocked at how many 6-4 to 6-6 players you see, and not thin, 230 to 250 year after year. Most of the families over there are of German ancestry with a lot of kids and they stay and reproduce. You see the same names over the years. Their farms have been passed down for hundreds of years. I see nothing like that around here. A big part of why the MAC has success. I live less than an hour from MAC country and it is a genetic wonderland. In the early 80's I was training a young man that was being courted by most of the Big Ten schools including OSU. Tressel was an assistant to Earle Bruce and met us during the young mans official visit. He told me that one of the things they look at when assessing size potential is the mom. Later, we attended indoor practice at French Field House where Tressel directed my attention to the parents of Jim Lachey, his mom was 6'2" and very striking. There's a lot of that in the area. Solid, deep bloodlines. Another secret is that the schools all pull for each other although they aren't too shot in the butt with Coldwater sometimes. One of the largest humans I have ever seen was a Minster fan who looked to be in his mid-50's, absolutely gargantuan. The MAC is so competitive that it's more along the lines of college ball with regard to coaching. Marion Local has used RPO's for a while and they are not alone. If you are vanilla defensively you will get trampled in that league, if you think you can sit in a base defense think again. The great Delphos St. John's teams had the most compete offensive package I have ever seen for a school that wasn't D-I or D-II; screens, draws, power, option, traps and a great passing concept. No matter how you chose to defend the option they had you. Speed option, loaded option, freeze option. I once attended a wedding in Minster on New Years Day. As we entered the town there were people everywhere running. You can imagine what they were doing the night before, but running is embedded in the culture of Minster. They are always in the mix at the state cross country and track championships. The heritage is different than in the Sandusky area. Once the automotive and manufacturing jobs dried up decades ago the general lake region did the same.
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Post by ebgames on Oct 25, 2021 15:34:34 GMT -5
And yes, I used the most extreme case. But that’s how you get you answer in these situations: take the most extreme case and see what holds true. It’s absurd to say coaches mean more to success than players. They can make a team better or worse than they actually are, yes. They do matter, of course. But if you don’t have talent, you won’t win. Period. If you don’t have a good coach, you’ll still win with good talent. How is this even debatable? Are you familiar with the law of averages. It says that with a big enough sample over a long enough time numbers will average out. What you’re suggesting is that Willard is an outlier. A statistical anomaly. You are saying that in the last ten years they have had no talent. That just doesn’t make sense. On average the same percentage of kids at Willard can run a 4.6 40 as the kids in Bellevue. The same percentage of kids have a 40 inch vertical leap. Now, Bellevue will have more total because they have more kids in the school, but that’s why we have divisions. That’s just reckless and wildly incorrect. You have no idea of Willard and Bellevue kids, on average, have those same 40 numbers. That’s just something you’re falsely claiming to help your argument. Why do the other schools have more kids go on to play college football than Willard does, in the last 10 years? Because the coach tricked the college program into thinking they’re good? No. It’s because they’re more talented. Your argument is terrible.
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Post by fanofthegame on Oct 25, 2021 17:49:31 GMT -5
Are you familiar with the law of averages. It says that with a big enough sample over a long enough time numbers will average out. What you’re suggesting is that Willard is an outlier. A statistical anomaly. You are saying that in the last ten years they have had no talent. That just doesn’t make sense. On average the same percentage of kids at Willard can run a 4.6 40 as the kids in Bellevue. The same percentage of kids have a 40 inch vertical leap. Now, Bellevue will have more total because they have more kids in the school, but that’s why we have divisions. That’s just reckless and wildly incorrect. You have no idea of Willard and Bellevue kids, on average, have those same 40 numbers. That’s just something you’re falsely claiming to help your argument. Why do the other schools have more kids go on to play college football than Willard does, in the last 10 years? Because the coach tricked the college program into thinking they’re good? No. It’s because they’re more talented. Your argument is terrible. My argument is a law. In science that means irrefutable. If you flip a coin it will on average land half on heads and half on tails. Your argument is invalid. I can think of a lot of reasons why Willard has very few college players that doesn’t have to refute a law of science. For instance why would a college coach go to a game to see any player on a team that has won one game in four years. He and his staff have 10 regular season games a year to see as many players as they can. Against your argument Willard is the only school I can think of in recent times that has a professional player as an alumni. Your argument is that Willard has been flipping a coin the last few years and landing on tails every time.
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tori2
All Conference
2017 Playoff Pick'em Champion
Posts: 312
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Post by tori2 on Oct 26, 2021 13:31:13 GMT -5
What about the Hyde kid from Fostoria? The only one I can think of, but there are probably others.
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Post by sbclives on Oct 26, 2021 14:11:02 GMT -5
What about the Hyde kid from Fostoria? The only one I can think of, but there are probably others. Cody Thompson is currently with the Seattle Seahawks.
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Post by woods on Oct 27, 2021 7:16:46 GMT -5
What about the Hyde kid from Fostoria? The only one I can think of, but there are probably others. Cody Thompson is currently with the Seattle Seahawks. Alex Gillett was with Green Bay for a year or 2 in 2013-2014.
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Post by sbclives on Oct 27, 2021 10:23:25 GMT -5
Cody Thompson is currently with the Seattle Seahawks. Alex Gillett was with Green Bay for a year or 2 in 2013-2014. I remember when the newspaper had a story about him with the Packers. I know Lichenbach from Margaretta played for the Colts and even started some games also.
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Post by Vogel on Oct 27, 2021 15:17:02 GMT -5
Bad coaches are always so "unlucky", it is amazing how they never have talent. I feel for them. lol
Here's some info on the senior class that started the "no talent" at Willard after Bob Haas retired. Let's investigate. 7th grade - undefeated - NOL Champs 8th grade - undefeated - NOL Champs 9th grade - undefeated - NOL Champs 10th grade - Varsity NOL Champs - Lost in Regional Final - JV (18-2) NOL Champs 11th grade - Varsity NOL Champs - AP #1 - JV (19-1) NOL Champs
^^^ So talentless. Hmmm, we know what Haas did for 22 straight years, what do you think would have happened if Haas coached that team?
Here's what they did under the New Coach 12th grade - (9-12) <--- That is also the BEST record that coach had in his 5 years at Willard.
There was a player in that senior class that was the starting PG all those years for that Senior class. That player played on the same AAU team as: - Ryan Nolan from Shelby - Shelby fans will know him well. One of their best - Dan Paul from Bellevue - 3rd team All-Ohio
That Willard player was All-Ohio in Football, so why didn't he play his senior year in basketball? Hmmm, could it be that the Head Coach decided to run him off the team? Interesting. That kid must have been a bad apple. Heard many "excuse makers" repeat that mantra of "bad apples" during those years. So 22 straight years of good apples under Haas, then 5 straight years of bad apples, then Nossaman takes over and the good apples come back. lol
That kid was such a bad apple that the kid was an Honor Roll student, Captain of football team, All-Ohio in Football, teachers and other coaches have nothing but good things to say about him. The new Head Basketball Coach though thought it was a wise move to run him off, players on the team at that time said the coach for some reason didn't like him...so a personality conflict. Obviously that's the players fault. To expect a coach to be able to deal with different personalities, woah, that's too much. All players on the team need to have the same personality to make it easy on the coach, and a type of personality that the coach knows how to coach. Good thing Haas didn't have players with different personalities for 22 straight years. What luck.
That same Head Coach had the brother of Jake and Jon Diebler and the brother of Jimmy Langhurst on 2 of his teams. Those teams went a combined 3-18 and 4-17. That Diebler kid averaged 37 ppg his senior year for Gibsonburg, amazing what happens when you have a coach that brings out the best in you.
Legendary Coach of 22 years 1990-91 - 20-1 - AP #1 1991-92 - 21-5 - Lost in Regional Final 1992-93 - 22-2 - AP #1 New Coach 1993-94 - 9-12 - with a Senior class that had won NOL Championships every year prior 1994-95 - 5-16 1995-96 - 8-13 1996-97 - 3-18 - Diebler, Langhurst and Frye in the High School 1997-98 - 4-17 - Diebler, Langhurst and Frye in the High School New Coach 1998-99 - 14-7 - Diebler at Gibsonburg 1999-00 - 22-3 - Diebler at Gibsonburg 2000-01 - 24-2
FYI - When Jake Diebler was a Freshmen at Fostoria he led the team to a 15-7 season - When Jake Diebler was a Sophomore at Fostoria he led the team to a 17-5 season - When Jon Diebler was a Sophomore at Upper Sandusky & Jake was a Senior and they went 27-0 and were State Champs - When Nick Dials was a sophomore he led Willard to the Final Four - When Jimmy Langhurst was a sophomore he led Willard to a 20-5 season and Regional appearance - But Diebler for Willard under "that coach" went 4-17 as a sophomore, then avg 37 ppg and was the D-4 Ohio Player of the Year under the coaching of his dad at Gibsonburg
When a BAD coach coaches you. You look like a chump. Then the naive fans say, "there is no talent" When a GOOD coach coaches you, you look like a stud. Then the naive fans say, "wow, that coach always has so much talent, what luck"
^^^^ That's just a simple analysis of Willard players during the "talentless" years. The kids in the middle years of that coach had plenty of talent too.
Now carry on with the it's never the coaches fault. NAIVE FANS.
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Post by Vogel on Oct 27, 2021 15:31:27 GMT -5
Willard Wrestling 0 Individual State Championships in Wrestling prior to Todd Fox
Under Todd Fox 2002 - Individual State Champ 2003 - Individual State Champ 2007 - Individual State Champ
0 Individual State Champs since Fox
Todd Fox is so lucky to be the only Willard wrestling coach to have talent
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Post by fanofthegame on Oct 27, 2021 16:38:53 GMT -5
A couple of things stand out to me in these posts.
It is the adult in the coach-player relationship that should be able to adapt more in the relationship. Adults have more experience in life and should be able to adapt their interactions to get the most out of a kid. Now, I’m not saying little Jimmy should get away with whatever he wants, but an adult with a lifetime of experiences should have the skills in their bag to meet a kid where he is and shape him into something better. You’re just bad at it if you run off an honor student who is a state level football player.
Willard should be able to field a good football team since the same player in that post was all state in football. As I said, there are overlapping skill sets. If you can win in basketball you can win in football.
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Post by pendulum on Oct 27, 2021 18:35:42 GMT -5
I can’t believe this is a real discussion about whether the problem is talent or coaching.
When you lose 20 straight games at the same time your school is winning and/or dominating in several other sports (three straight league titles in boys basketball, league titles and regional appearances in girls basketball, five straight league titles in girls tennis, league titles and state appearances in bowling, etc), the issue very clearly is not due to a dearth of talent at the school.
The prior coaching regime was bad. Horrifically bad. I know Vogel has shown a lot of stats about coaches able to turn things around in one year, but I think the damage done with the last regime will take multiple years to undue.
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Post by ebgames on Oct 28, 2021 1:55:11 GMT -5
I guess sometimes the great coaches throughout history have just forgotten how to coach on random years. Had nothing to do with lack of talent. Urban Meyer forgot how to coach this year. Noss forgot how to coach at the end of his Willard term when he ended 14-28. Belichik forgot how to coach in Cleveland. But once he had the GOAT at quarterback, he magically remembered how to coach again. The GOAT left and…. Uh oh… he forgot how to coach again with multiple losing seasons. There’s hundreds, if not thousands of examples out there.
Great coaches get the most out of their players, sure. But they won’t win consistently without great talent. On the flip side, great talent will win without a great coach. That’s not debatable
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Post by fanofthegame on Oct 28, 2021 4:20:30 GMT -5
Your examples are almost entirely at a level other than high school. At the college and pro level your talent can vary more because your roster can change based on recruiting and trading. Your talent in high school is based mostly on who lives in the district. It’s a random draw like flipping a coin. And like that coin on average over time it’s going to equal out.
I don’t think anyone is debating that talent matters and it will wax a wane. The variability is just going to be significantly less at the high school level. A very good coach will still win more than he loses with a down year talent-wise. Very rarely is a coach lucky enough to have a Hyde or a Frye or an Armstrong. Mostly he’s going to have a bunch of average schmucks and it’s his job to get the most out of his average schmucks that are about the same as the other school’s average schmucks.
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Post by dude on Oct 28, 2021 7:16:05 GMT -5
I always chuckle reading the stats of how when Haas retired the program fell off. Nobody ever points out that in his last season 22-2, he had a team led by 8 seniors. Obviously there could be a drop by going from a HoF coach to a first year coach. In his last season Haas won 3 games by 4 points or less. In Lillo's first season he lost 6 games by the same measures. That could be coaching. But in Lillo's second season, his best returning player was out all year with an injury and then in first half of the season he loses another top player to a broken leg. Not many teams can win if you take its top two players without warning.
Now I'm not saying Lillo was a better coach than Haas, but Lillo did not get off to a great start in part because he was missing some talent.
Stats are great things but there can also be more to the story.
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Post by woods on Oct 28, 2021 13:58:38 GMT -5
Willard Wrestling 0 Individual State Championships in Wrestling prior to Todd Fox Under Todd Fox 2002 - Individual State Champ 2003 - Individual State Champ 2007 - Individual State Champ 0 Individual State Champs since Fox Todd Fox is so lucky to be the only Willard wrestling coach to have talent It is funny you bring him up, did he become a bad football coach all of a sudden? What they win like 1 game this year? He had some really good teams at Calvert and Norwalk until this year.
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Post by ebgames on Oct 28, 2021 15:16:10 GMT -5
Willard Wrestling 0 Individual State Championships in Wrestling prior to Todd Fox Under Todd Fox 2002 - Individual State Champ 2003 - Individual State Champ 2007 - Individual State Champ 0 Individual State Champs since Fox Todd Fox is so lucky to be the only Willard wrestling coach to have talent It is funny you bring him up, did he become a bad football coach all of a sudden? What they win like 1 game this year? He had some really good teams at Calvert and Norwalk until this year. It doesn’t fit the narrative. And great job responding. Now we gotta read fanofthegame tell us all about coin flips again. And Vogel make an 8 paragraph post with random stats that only fit his narrative but have absolutely no response to why great coaches have very bad years.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Oct 28, 2021 18:28:08 GMT -5
Vogel does know wrestling.
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Post by sbclives on Oct 28, 2021 20:26:32 GMT -5
So, is it basketball season yet?
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Post by fanofthegame on Oct 28, 2021 20:50:06 GMT -5
It is funny you bring him up, did he become a bad football coach all of a sudden? What they win like 1 game this year? He had some really good teams at Calvert and Norwalk until this year. It doesn’t fit the narrative. And great job responding. Now we gotta read fanofthegame tell us all about coin flips again. And Vogel make an 8 paragraph post with random stats that only fit his narrative but have absolutely no response to why great coaches have very bad years. The well thought out and original post, “yea what he said.”
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Post by ebgames on Oct 29, 2021 2:38:52 GMT -5
It doesn’t fit the narrative. And great job responding. Now we gotta read fanofthegame tell us all about coin flips again. And Vogel make an 8 paragraph post with random stats that only fit his narrative but have absolutely no response to why great coaches have very bad years. The well thought out and original post, “yea what he said.” And he’s said the same exact thing I said. Just a different example. And you have no answer to it. Again. Neither you nor Vogel.
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Post by fanofthegame on Oct 29, 2021 4:25:39 GMT -5
The well thought out and original post, “yea what he said.” And he’s said the same exact thing I said. Just a different example. And you have no answer to it. Again. Neither you nor Vogel. This will be my last post on this because we’re now just talking in circles, but you seem to expect me to specifically address your points while not reciprocating. I am addressing your points. Your are not. Address the fact that I explained why Urban Myer has tanked. At OSU he recruited and got players he wanted and for his system. At Jacksonville he got what was there. That’s an apples to oranges comparison to high school. You’re drawing conclusions based on irrelevant data. You haven’t explained to me, even though I asked why, Willard just doesn’t have athletes. If I were a Willard poster on here I’d be personally offended at your repeated insults that Willard kids just can’t walk and chew gum at the same time while all the successful programs in the area have college worthy players. You said nothing about the proof I gave you that a good coach with a good program is involved at all levels. I’ll wait for your generic “nanny, nanny, boo, boo” or “I am rubber you are glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you” generic, non specific response.
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