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Post by woods on Oct 29, 2021 7:24:57 GMT -5
And he’s said the same exact thing I said. Just a different example. And you have no answer to it. Again. Neither you nor Vogel. This will be my last post on this because we’re now just talking in circles, but you seem to expect me to specifically address your points while not reciprocating. I am addressing your points. Your are not. Address the fact that I explained why Urban Myer has tanked. At OSU he recruited and got players he wanted and for his system. At Jacksonville he got what was there. That’s an apples to oranges comparison to high school. You’re drawing conclusions based on irrelevant data. You haven’t explained to me, even though I asked why, Willard just doesn’t have athletes. If I were a Willard poster on here I’d be personally offended at your repeated insults that Willard kids just can’t walk and chew gum at the same time while all the successful programs in the area have college worthy players. You said nothing about the proof I gave you that a good coach with a good program is involved at all levels. I’ll wait for your generic “nanny, nanny, boo, boo” or “I am rubber you are glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you” generic, non specific response. I do not think that Willard does not have athlete's walking the halls of WHS. I don't think that is the issue, I think what may be holding some of these athletic players back from huge success on the football field is lack of Football IQ or Football Knowledge. I do not think that watching football on TV whether it be college or pros is a thing for young athletes anymore, that is how you learn the ins and outs of the games, seeing some of the best work at their craft right in front of your eyes. I think that young students have more things they would rather do than sit and watch football and possibly learn from what players are doing and how they play specific positions as well as learning the rules of the game. It feels like you have a bunch of High Basketball IQ kids trying to play football when those knowledge bases are very different obviously due to the different objectives and styles of play.
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Post by ebgames on Oct 29, 2021 9:45:39 GMT -5
And he’s said the same exact thing I said. Just a different example. And you have no answer to it. Again. Neither you nor Vogel. This will be my last post on this because we’re now just talking in circles, but you seem to expect me to specifically address your points while not reciprocating. I am addressing your points. Your are not. Address the fact that I explained why Urban Myer has tanked. At OSU he recruited and got players he wanted and for his system. At Jacksonville he got what was there. That’s an apples to oranges comparison to high school. You’re drawing conclusions based on irrelevant data. You haven’t explained to me, even though I asked why, Willard just doesn’t have athletes. If I were a Willard poster on here I’d be personally offended at your repeated insults that Willard kids just can’t walk and chew gum at the same time while all the successful programs in the area have college worthy players. You said nothing about the proof I gave you that a good coach with a good program is involved at all levels. I’ll wait for your generic “nanny, nanny, boo, boo” or “I am rubber you are glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you” generic, non specific response. I’ve addressed all of that. You don’t seem to comprehend. Willard has athletes, obviously. Every city has athletes in high school. You said they couldn’t walk and chew gum. That never came from me as I don’t think that. As I’ve already said… but I’ll say again. When a program is down for so long like Willard football has been, there’s not enough interest in the entire town to turn things around. The biggest issue being the the kids don’t fall in love with it at a young age. The parents don’t push the kids to be great at it. Don’t send them to camps, practice on their own, 7 on 7, etc. So at the high school level, their football skills, and passion for the game of football, are simply not on par with some surrounding towns. Willard has and always will be a basketball town. They simply don’t care as much about football. It’s a pretty simple concept. You absolutely have NOT answered my questions. You took one example out of many, and spoke about Urban Meyer. Please tell me, if coaches mean more than players when it comes to wins and losses - why do these great high school coaches go from amazing seasons to horrible seasons? According to you, every town has roughly the same amount of athletes and talent per capita. So how does Nossman go from 24-1 to 4-17 the very next year? How does Todd Fox go 1-9 in football this year? We all know those are both great coaches. And there’s tons of more examples of these. But guess what? If you don’t have talent, you won’t win. Period. Please explain that to me since you seem to disagree.
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Post by ScarletFever on Oct 30, 2021 10:57:17 GMT -5
This will be my last post on this because we’re now just talking in circles, but you seem to expect me to specifically address your points while not reciprocating. I am addressing your points. Your are not. Address the fact that I explained why Urban Myer has tanked. At OSU he recruited and got players he wanted and for his system. At Jacksonville he got what was there. That’s an apples to oranges comparison to high school. You’re drawing conclusions based on irrelevant data. You haven’t explained to me, even though I asked why, Willard just doesn’t have athletes. If I were a Willard poster on here I’d be personally offended at your repeated insults that Willard kids just can’t walk and chew gum at the same time while all the successful programs in the area have college worthy players. You said nothing about the proof I gave you that a good coach with a good program is involved at all levels. I’ll wait for your generic “nanny, nanny, boo, boo” or “I am rubber you are glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you” generic, non specific response. So how does Nossman go from 24-1 to 4-17 the very next year? How does Todd Fox go 1-9 in football this year? We all know those are both great coaches. And there’s tons of more examples of these. But guess what? If you don’t have talent, you won’t win. Period. Perfect examples. Talent in HS is about 80% of the issue, coaching the remaining 20%. The mark of an ok vs great coach is how far they take great teams in the playoffs imo. If you have regional level talent and lose in the district semis, you blew it. Opposite is true great coaches can take a random sectional level team to districts, or pull off a district title and get to regionals... but without talent there's eventually a ceiling. Also when you don't have talent, do you still have kids that try. Keep their composure. Remember that 4-17 Noss team damn near had ASVSM beat at home, the recruiting goon Irish even had to play stall ball the last 4 minutes to ensure the win. Noss kept them believing.
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Post by maplecityjake on Oct 30, 2021 11:16:35 GMT -5
Recruiting goon Irish....
I love it! Too pucking funny!
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Post by ScarletFever on Oct 30, 2021 12:08:35 GMT -5
I know there's a local program I won't mention that had very consistent success over the years, for quite some time. However every playoff season it seemed they always fell short of their peak. This coach would never win a game they 'shouldn't' win or a game where the teams were equally matched. Always winning 'nice' seasons, never any grief or trouble, but never finished where they should have or could have when all said and done. Enough to keep a job, a C grade in school.
Reminds me of the old saying someone was giving Raymont Harris the OSU back a left handed compliment. If you give Raymont a 5 yard hole he'll get you 3-4 yards every time. You don't want a Raymont Harris as a coach, you want someone that will get 5-10 yards a pop.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2021 13:46:50 GMT -5
I know there's a local program I won't mention that had very consistent success over the years, for quite some time. However every playoff season it seemed they always fell short of their peak. This coach would never win a game they 'shouldn't' win or a game where the teams were equally matched. Always winning 'nice' seasons, never any grief or trouble, but never finished where they should have or could have when all said and done. Enough to keep a job, a C grade in school. Reminds me of the old saying someone was giving Raymont Harris the OSU back a left handed compliment. If you give Raymont a 5 yard hole he'll get you 3-4 yards every time. You don't want a Raymont Harris as a coach, you want someone that will get 5-10 yards a pop. can't wait to see you on the sidelines coaching it up soon. Seems like its time to roll up the sleeves and get in there and do the work. Meanwhile, Willard can right the ship since they got their wish to go down to the river division to try and rebuild their football program.
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Post by ScarletFever on Oct 30, 2021 13:49:22 GMT -5
I know there's a local program I won't mention that had very consistent success over the years, for quite some time. However every playoff season it seemed they always fell short of their peak. This coach would never win a game they 'shouldn't' win or a game where the teams were equally matched. Always winning 'nice' seasons, never any grief or trouble, but never finished where they should have or could have when all said and done. Enough to keep a job, a C grade in school. Reminds me of the old saying someone was giving Raymont Harris the OSU back a left handed compliment. If you give Raymont a 5 yard hole he'll get you 3-4 yards every time. You don't want a Raymont Harris as a coach, you want someone that will get 5-10 yards a pop. can't wait to see you on the sidelines coaching it up soon. Seems like its time to roll up the sleeves and get in there and do the work. Meanwhile, Willard can right the ship since they got their wish to go down to the river division to try and rebuild their football program. Tired response 🥱
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2021 13:53:21 GMT -5
can't wait to see you on the sidelines coaching it up soon. Seems like its time to roll up the sleeves and get in there and do the work. Meanwhile, Willard can right the ship since they got their wish to go down to the river division to try and rebuild their football program. Tired response 🥱 how so, I am serious, you seem to have answers, why not give it a shot? And I was serious about Willard, getting into the River gives them a shot at working to rebuild their program. Nothing tired about that either. Vermilion might be the next team wanting in if they don't improve program numbers.
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Post by buckeyekid on Oct 31, 2021 6:52:19 GMT -5
SF on point. I agree 100%. You don't need to be a coach to have a quality opinion that makes a lot of sense. You know sports quite well and you call it like you see it. I don't always agree with you but your post was extremely accurate aside from it being Hirsch and not Noss that almost beat STV and forced them to stall out the game to secure their win vs WHS. Good coaches get as far as they can almost every year. Win games with lesser or similar talent. Average coaches only win games they should. Lose games with equal or lesser talent.
In the end you need talent to win consistantly and to advance in the tournament/ playoffs most years.
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Post by ScarletFever on Oct 31, 2021 10:34:13 GMT -5
SF on point. I agree 100%. You don't need to be a coach to have a quality opinion that makes a lot of sense. You know sports quite well and you call it like you see it. I don't always agree with you but your post was extremely accurate aside from it being Hirsch and not Noss that almost beat STV and forced them to stall out the game to secure their win vs WHS. Good coaches get as far as they can almost every year. Win games with lesser or similar talent. Average coaches only win games they should. Lose games with equal or lesser talent. In the end you need talent to win consistantly and to advance in the tournament/ playoffs most years. Good call I swore Noss had a bad record team that almost pulled off a huge upset. Oh well I’m finally losing it.
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Post by pendulum on Nov 1, 2021 9:59:34 GMT -5
There seems to be two very different topics being debated at the same time so it’s hard to keep up.
For an average program with an average coach does 80 percent of their success year to year come down to talent? It’s an arbitrary percentage and probably on the high end, but sure, talent is the most important part of the equation in those instances.
When a team goes a decade plus of being atrociously bad is a lack of talent 80 percent of the problem? Good God no. Talent is zero percent of the problem when the problem is that big for that long and the other programs in the same school have no trouble finding talent during the same time period.
Short term success and failure is heavily influenced by talent. Long term success and failure is not. Willard’s sustained failures in football have absolutely nothing to do with talent overall (aside from not getting the talent to actually play football, which falls on coaching, culture, community, etc).
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Post by ebgames on Nov 12, 2021 23:18:02 GMT -5
Oops. Doesn’t really help your cause, huh delusional people? This was Kirby Smart this week, talking about how it doesn’t matter how good the coach is. It’s about how talented the players are.
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Post by duckdude on Nov 19, 2021 20:31:40 GMT -5
Off-season workouts start 11-29 for those not in a winter sport. Hearing lots of kids working out at Levels until that starts.
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