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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 27, 2024 22:32:11 GMT -5
This is really bad. This is turning into the same thing as last season. At some point Ohio State has to say enough is enough and part ways.
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Post by buckeyekid on Jan 28, 2024 8:07:29 GMT -5
I think it’s a foregone conclusion, the only question is when not if. I’m not sure i ever remember an osu coach being let go mid season. I suppose Diebler could handle it, and maybe we’d find out if he was capable/ ready.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 8:18:06 GMT -5
Things don’t get any easier either as they face #10 Illinois next and then Iowa after that, who may not be ranked but always a tough team. The talent is there, it’s just not being used to its full potential.
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Post by baldref on Jan 28, 2024 9:00:47 GMT -5
Things don’t get any easier either as they face #10 Illinois next and then Iowa after that, who may not be ranked but always a tough team. The talent is there, it’s just not being used to its full potential. I am not convinced that the talent is there. Street talent yes, but B!G -caliber type talent, I dont see it. Every B1G team OSU plays out-muscles them, moves better, sets up shots better etc. For OSU its plenty of one on one game. Hoping the next coach knows how to recruit B1G type talent, and not just good one--on-one street players. Know many disagree with me, but that IMO, is Holtmanns biggest weakness,
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Post by buckeyekid on Jan 28, 2024 9:25:45 GMT -5
The thing that is puzzling is how the last two years especially—- the regression from Dec 20th ish to January 20th +. If you watch the first half of the away Penn St game and then fast forward to now —— completely different team and not for the better.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 9:36:22 GMT -5
Things don’t get any easier either as they face #10 Illinois next and then Iowa after that, who may not be ranked but always a tough team. The talent is there, it’s just not being used to its full potential. I am not convinced that the talent is there. Street talent yes, but B!G -caliber type talent, I dont see it. Every B1G team OSU plays out-muscles them, moves better, sets up shots better etc. For OSU its plenty of one on one game. Hoping the next coach knows how to recruit B1G type talent, and not just good one--on-one street players. Know many disagree with me, but that IMO, is Holtmanns biggest weakness, ”out muscles them, moves better, sets up shots better”… that has nothing to do with talent. That’s coaching. These players are all just as talented as northwestern’s roster but yet lose by 30. That’s not a talent issue, that’s coaching.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 11:26:50 GMT -5
Also they are recruiting players that are big ten caliber, let's take a look at just a few of them and their rankings and some of their offers.
Bruce Thornton - #51 overall, #10 pg - offers from Alabama, Auburn, Cincinnati, Indiana, Purdue Roddy Gayle - #49 overall, #2 sg - offers from UConn, Louisville, Marquette, Alabama, Rutgers Felix Okpara - #66 overall, #14 c - offers from Florida, Georgia, Nebraska, Tennessee, Texas Scotty Middleton - #50 overall, #10 sf - offers from Kansas, UConn, Georgia, Seton Hall, Michigan St Taison Chatman - #39 overall, #8 cg - offers from UConn, Kansas, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota
That's just a few. We have the talent, every top program in the country is offering these players too. The coaches are failing them right now.
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Post by baldref on Jan 28, 2024 11:30:14 GMT -5
Agree that Holtmann must go - been saying that. But he does not recruit B1G talent. Coaching is not a 30-point difference IMO. We all tend to look at osu players as some of the best around and certainly as some of the best in the B1 G and they are obviously not IMO.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 11:33:08 GMT -5
Agree that Holtmann must go - been saying that. But he does not recruit B1G talent. Coaching is not a 30-point difference IMO. We all tend to look at osu players as some of the best around and certainly as some of the best in the B1 G and they are obviously not IMO. ”does not recruit big ten talent”… you might wanna tell all these other big ten coaches offering the same players that they aren’t big ten talent. I’ll trust these coaches offers over your opinion.
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Post by baldref on Jan 28, 2024 11:34:59 GMT -5
Rankings do not necessarily translate into performance. And yes that is where coaching comes into placebut its not a 30-pointdifference. Too many individuals and not enough team players and that's Holtmanns fault
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 11:37:55 GMT -5
Don’t look at just rankings, look at offers too which is why I included those. These big ten coaches are recrutiing and wanting the same players. The talent is there to be better than they are playing, and that’s where the coaching comes into play.
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Post by dude on Jan 28, 2024 11:55:20 GMT -5
Don’t look at just rankings, look at offers too which is why I included those. These big ten coaches are recruiting and wanting the same players. The talent is there to be better than they are playing, and that’s where the coaching comes into play. Some kids have offers from many teams, but when it comes to being recruited there can be a big difference. Many times we can see that a player has an offer from a school but has that coach actually been in contact with them in the last six months. They may have interest from multiple colleges but being recruited on different levels.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 12:09:03 GMT -5
Splitting hairs here now. If a program offers a kid, they obviously feel he can play there.
Let’s look at Devin Royal, came down to Ohio State and Michigan st. Leading up to his announcement date, Izzo was still in contact with him. Some thought he may actually go to Michigan St.
I’m not saying these players are all Americans, but they are better than what is being shown on the court.
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Post by baldref on Jan 28, 2024 12:13:49 GMT -5
That's why the players deserve their fair share of criticism for this dismal program
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 12:20:12 GMT -5
Of course they do, but this current group has the talent to be better than this and the coaches aren’t getting it out of them.
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Post by baldref on Jan 28, 2024 13:15:15 GMT -5
Agree
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Post by dude on Jan 28, 2024 13:59:12 GMT -5
Splitting hairs here now. If a program offers a kid, they obviously feel he can play there. Let’s look at Devin Royal, came down to Ohio State and Michigan st. Leading up to his announcement date, Izzo was still in contact with him. Some thought he may actually go to Michigan St. I’m not saying these players are all Americans, but they are better than what is being shown on the court. Just to be fair, some offers are made before a players senior year and by the time he is playing his final season, they have better options so they stop recruiting. But the recruiting sites still show a college has interest. Some players sites may show interest from 7 Big Ten schools but truly only have one or two recruiting them. Colin White from OG is a good example. 4 Big Ten schools had interest 3 gave offers, 2 actually recruited him with effort.
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Post by dude on Jan 28, 2024 14:01:48 GMT -5
Of course they do, but this current group has the talent to be better than this and the coaches aren’t getting it out of them. Your argument has it's points but losing by 30 shows you have poor everything. Good talent with poor coaching could at least get you to a 15 point margin.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 14:02:11 GMT -5
Cool story. They were still offered meaning they felt they can play for their program. Doesn’t matter if they stopped recruiting or whatever happened. Point is, these players are being recruited by power 5 programs, many being top 25 teams. The talent is there.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 14:08:16 GMT -5
This all started with baldref saying these aren’t big ten players when in fact they are and now this has spilled over into splitting hairs to try to make points. If they didn’t go to Ohio State, pretty much all of them would be at other big ten schools or SEC, ACC, etc schools.
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Post by baldref on Jan 28, 2024 14:31:27 GMT -5
It will be very interesting to see where all this talent that osu now has ends up next season.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 15:00:49 GMT -5
Jaedon LeDee is having a nice career at San Diego St and Meechie Johnson is doing the same at South Carolina, currently averaging over 15 points a game.
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Post by buckeyekid on Jan 28, 2024 16:13:17 GMT -5
I am beginning to question the overall quality of this staff. Aside from Jake Diebler,,,i couldn’t name the others. I know the buck stops with the coaxh,,, but if you don’t have a good quality staff,,, your team might show it.
Poor assistants led to Thads demisec as it did for Jim Obrien.
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Post by dude on Jan 28, 2024 17:15:01 GMT -5
Cool story. They were still offered meaning they felt they can play for their program. Doesn’t matter if they stopped recruiting or whatever happened. Point is, these players are being recruited by power 5 programs, many being top 25 teams. The talent is there. It does matter because it shows the interest changed for some and they did not see a player as highly as others do. George Washington III had an offer from OSU but then they decided they didn't want him.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 17:27:55 GMT -5
And where is George Washington now? Another big ten school.
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Post by dude on Jan 28, 2024 21:52:18 GMT -5
And where is George Washington now? Another big ten school. He sure is, but how good was his offer from OSU.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 28, 2024 22:02:03 GMT -5
What does it matter? You’re getting away from the original point, he was still offered to Ohio State and is now still at a big ten school. Which goes back to my original point. Stop arguing just to argue.
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Post by dude on Jan 28, 2024 22:16:20 GMT -5
You are trying to make a point that any player with multiple Big Ten offers is the same to every team. That's just not true. OSU offered Washington III and then at some point decided they no longer wanted him, but he still had an offer. Your trying to group every kid with a Big Ten offer into the same column and they are not. Some kids on recruiting sites can show that they have a verbal offer even though the school is actively not recruiting them.
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Post by ronburgandy on Jan 29, 2024 5:58:22 GMT -5
You are totally missing my point. It has nothing to do with grouping them together or anything, just pointing out that the majority of these kids are all big ten or other similar conference caliber players. Baldref trying to make it sound like they should all be in the MAC or something which isn’t true. And now since you have to always argue with everyone like Willard Fillmore used to do, this has gotten way off topic.
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Post by mcm1019 on Jan 29, 2024 8:06:08 GMT -5
Holtman is dead man walking and for some reason this team fell apart again in January, but it certainly looked like those kids quit vs Northwestern too. I know we play alot of underclassmen, but where is the leadership?
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