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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 11:24:23 GMT -5
The only problem this creates is adding an additional non-conference game. If this actually does happen they my guess is they will reach out to some schools to get back to 8 very quickly. If that does not happen, only then will they try making 7 schools work. The MOAC may have a problem finding an 8th school they can all agree on. Kenton, Highland and Upper Sandusky look to be very happy in their places and many would be shocked if they were to move. Kenton would create over an hour drive for some schools and that would be frowned upon. Lexington would not be approved unanimously as a couple schools are afraid to have them in a league with them. If BV leaves I would initiate the 7 team plan right away. I would hope for Lex to get the spot over the others. Don't hold your breathe. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 11:32:10 GMT -5
What is actually going on with all these ADs' and principals? You would think gate receipts would be the biggest indication that things are going ok in a broad, general sense, but how on earth can any of these admins possibly be so constantly insecure about their performance over the span of a few years? Did Buckeye Valley really have cause to leave the MOAC after being in it since 1990? I can't imagine that Columbus traffic is going to be joyful as time goes on. You hope they put as much time into these decisions are we do scrutinizing them... It would appear that travel is becoming a larger factor in league set up and we can assume this is directly related to ticket sale decline. Trying to find a good fit based on location, competition and enrollment is understandable but being flexible with enrollment can create a better fit for the other two. All of this and trying to hold on to rivalries can be difficult as some ADs try to manufacture wins for their programs. In most cases the league decisions are based on 2-3 sports while the other school sports can become collateral damage. |
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Feb 20, 2018 12:47:14 GMT -5
I am in full understanding that these decisions are made chiefly off of football, basketball, and perhaps a lower tier sport after that in a few cases. A rational company will try to support their biggest and most profitable divisions. I can get behind that logic as it pertains to high schools and it doesn't bother me all that much.
What kills me is the jockeying around to manufacture these wins. It's comical at this point. Are the ADs trying to bolster their importance to the job by looking busy with all this?? Let's be fair and honest, if students aren't generating success (see BV and their ZERO football playoff appearances) are we to blame the drive times and the gate receipts and the competition? I think each of these conference moves are based on a smattering of these variables. I am just rambling at this point because I have no solution or no insight, honestly. I think it is all stupid and, on another vein, if Madison goes to the SBC I will be flippantly disgusted with this lunacy. At that point, Shelby should go ahead and join the WBL, at least Rt. 30 is pleasant.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 14:02:33 GMT -5
I am in full understanding that these decisions are made chiefly off of football, basketball, and perhaps a lower tier sport after that in a few cases. A rational company will try to support their biggest and most profitable divisions. I can get behind that logic as it pertains to high schools and it doesn't bother me all that much. What kills me is the jockeying around to manufacture these wins. It's comical at this point. Are the ADs trying to bolster their importance to the job by looking busy with all this?? Let's be fair and honest, if students aren't generating success (see BV and their ZERO football playoff appearances) are we to blame the drive times and the gate receipts and the competition? I think each of these conference moves are based on a smattering of these variables. I am just rambling at this point because I have no solution or no insight, honestly. I think it is all stupid and, on another vein, if Madison goes to the SBC I will be flippantly disgusted with this lunacy. At that point, Shelby should go ahead and join the WBL, at least Rt. 30 is pleasant. I would agree blaming losses on drive time is crazy. It is also just as crazy to an hour for a league game when you can drive 5 minutes but teams do it to get a win. I feel the hour drive reduces fan support to where the 5 minute drive may be a tougher opponent but having your fans with you can help your chances for the win. |
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Feb 20, 2018 15:01:16 GMT -5
Luckily, Shelby always had an abundance of options to beef/weaken their schedule because of the NOL. Some of the league games in the NOL were fairly long, but that left plenty of quality local opponents to challenge themselves with for non-league games (Ontario, Lex, Madison, Ashland, etc.).
All of this makes me think of my brother and the high school he teaches at in Arizona. Their sports teams have leisurely 3+ hour drives to get to some of their opponents. I saw the flipside when I was living in Rhode Island. There are no leagues, just the division the state assigns each school. Not that it mattered all that much when you are dealing with 40+ schools in the entire state. Drive 10 minutes in any direction and you'll find 1-2 teams to play. A fun side note, if you want to talk competitive balance issues, look at Mount St. Charles hockey in Woonsocket, RI. From 1978-2014, they won 32 out of 37 possible state titles, including every state title from 1978-2003.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 20, 2018 15:58:47 GMT -5
How do you know " nobody wants to"  You've talked to all the coaches and every AD at all schools? After speaking with Ontario's AD yesterday I know for a FACT they have no problem with a 7 school league. LIAR! Shelby and Ontario did it in the NOL. Clear Fork would MUCH rather be 7, than be by far the smallest school in the OCC with 5 DI schools AND Senior's first year out of DI or Class A in their history. . With BV turning tail it eliminates the furthest trip for Shelby, Ontario and Clear Fork. Which was better than driving to Sandusky and Perkins up by Lake Erie. Why must you be this way? There is a difference between accepting something and wanting something. Ask your AD if he wants a 7 school league over an 8 school league. Don't ask him if he is okay with settling for 7. We already knew Ontario would settle when they went to the NOL. Your fact won't be for long since Ontario is getting a new AD. I must be like this because people like you spew untruths. I asked if you had spoken to every MOAC coach and AD. A simple query you failed to answer. Why?? You would have to admit you lied. Another untruthful supposition by you. Where did I say 7 schools is preferred? OBVIOUSLY all that is possible will be done to find a suitable 8th, but a desperation addition won't be made, as a 7 school league is very doable. You never tell me anything I don't already know, but you do post untruths that must pointed out. Do you know his name and what high school he graduated from? The current AD will be working with the other ADs to find a new school for several months before the new AD is up to speed, he's pretty green. |
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Feb 20, 2018 16:15:49 GMT -5
Why must you be this way? There is a difference between accepting something and wanting something. Ask your AD if he wants a 7 school league over an 8 school league. Don't ask him if he is okay with settling for 7. We already knew Ontario would settle when they went to the NOL. Your fact won't be for long since Ontario is getting a new AD. I must be like this because people like you spew untruths. I asked if you had spoken to every MOAC coach and AD. A simple query you failed to answer. Why?? You would have to admit you lied. Another untruthful supposition by you. Where did I say 7 schools is preferred? OBVIOUSLY all that is possible will be done to find a suitable 8th, but a desperation addition won't be made, as a 7 school league is very doable. You never tell me anything I don't already know, but you do post untruths that must pointed out. Do you know his name and what high school he graduated from? The current AD will be working with the other ADs to find a new school for several months before the new AD is up to speed, he's pretty green. And we were all woefully and near irreparably ruined because of these lies and untruthful suppositions. Thank you for clarifying that ohioraised was not, in fact, speaking in absolute literal terms. |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 20, 2018 16:26:57 GMT -5
I am in full understanding that these decisions are made chiefly off of football, basketball, and perhaps a lower tier sport after that in a few cases. A rational company will try to support their biggest and most profitable divisions. I can get behind that logic as it pertains to high schools and it doesn't bother me all that much. What kills me is the jockeying around to manufacture these wins. It's comical at this point. Are the ADs trying to bolster their importance to the job by looking busy with all this?? Let's be fair and honest, if students aren't generating success (see BV and their ZERO football playoff appearances) are we to blame the drive times and the gate receipts and the competition? I think each of these conference moves are based on a smattering of these variables. I am just rambling at this point because I have no solution or no insight, honestly. I think it is all stupid and, on another vein, if Madison goes to the SBC I will be flippantly disgusted with this lunacy. At that point, Shelby should go ahead and join the WBL, at least Rt. 30 is pleasant. I would agree blaming losses on drive time is crazy. It is also just as crazy to an hour for a league game when you can drive 5 minutes but teams do it to get a win. I feel the hour drive reduces fan support to where the 5 minute drive may be a tougher opponent but having your fans with you can help your chances for the win. The supposed knowledgeable never talks about home team attendance. Which is FAR more important that the number of visitors in the stands. If not all, there are are still many schools in leagues that are close enough to expect a good crowd, if they travel well. As many non-league games as possible are scheduled with rivals and neighboring districts. Larger schools are scheduled for larger crowds. But if you're by far the smallest school in a league, the win totals will go down. You never compete for a league title. Which for the majority of today's teenagers affects the number of athletes going out for sports. It affects how many hours are spent in the weight room and hours working on skills in the off season. Which further affects the quality of teams, which affects home crowd attendance. In football and basketball especially, HOME crowed attendance is far more important than the number of visitors in seats. The bread and butter of an athletic budget. At the Shelby/Ontario basketball game I noticed the home crowd was significantly smaller than usual for a "rivalry" game. Not much more than half of the Shelby reserved seats were filled. There was no "rage" what so ever coming from the Red Rage. |
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Post by babymaker on Feb 20, 2018 18:08:24 GMT -5
Upper left before and will not be back they could not compete before they absolutely not be able to now.
Willard please for the love of god stop taking everything literally. We know what people mean and give us the fellow forum members credit for knowing that they are not talking to every single AD. That said I know 2 AD's that talk out both sides of their mouth so depending on who they are talking to there maybe different stories. Doesn't make me a lair and it doesn't make you a lair.
BV leaving will drive more change. A smaller school is not joining the league so look for D2 to D4 size as the filler and one with a stronger athletic program because not many want to walk in this league right now. (for Willard that is my personal opinion I am not speaking for every school in Ohio, Mi, or Indiana)
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Post by GHS 1999 on Feb 20, 2018 18:35:39 GMT -5
Then Lexington would seem to be a good fit following that line of thinking. Football is okay not normally spectacular, basketball program is better. They compete very well in the OCC.
Upper won’t leave the comfort of the N10 unless they get booted like in the NCC.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 20, 2018 23:34:27 GMT -5
Why must you be this way? Your fact won't be for long since Ontario is getting a new AD. Because he’s a piece of 💩 Says the ugly mouthed king of turds. bmaker, should the above be "taken literally"?. |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 20, 2018 23:49:19 GMT -5
Upper left before and will not be back they could not compete before they absolutely not be able to now. Willard please for the love of god stop taking everything literally. We know what people mean and give us the fellow forum members credit for knowing that they are not talking to every single AD. That said I know 2 AD's that talk out both sides of their mouth so depending on who they are talking to there maybe different stories. Doesn't make me a lair and it doesn't make you a lair. BV leaving will drive more change. A smaller school is not joining the league so look for D2 to D4 size as the filler and one with a stronger athletic program because not many want to walk in this league right now. (for Willard that is my personal opinion I am not speaking for every school in Ohio, Mi, or Indiana) There is a HUGE difference between a personal opinion, everyone has a right to have them. The issue is those who abuse that right and exaggerate beyond normalcy. I make an extreme effort to be VERY literal. PLEASE tell me when I'm not. I do not know 99% of the "people" who post on here. I cannot leave a statement that I know is a huge exaggeration go unquestioned. The individual in question doesn't even live in an MOAC school district. Yet he purports to know more than YOU about how MOAC schools will handle BV leaving. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 8:27:07 GMT -5
Then Lexington would seem to be a good fit following that line of thinking. Football is okay not normally spectacular, basketball program is better. They compete very well in the OCC. Upper won’t leave the comfort of the N10 unless they get booted like in the NCC. Ontario and probably Galion would not vote for that. |
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Post by babymaker on Feb 21, 2018 9:29:59 GMT -5
Upper left before and will not be back they could not compete before they absolutely not be able to now. Willard please for the love of god stop taking everything literally. We know what people mean and give us the fellow forum members credit for knowing that they are not talking to every single AD. That said I know 2 AD's that talk out both sides of their mouth so depending on who they are talking to there maybe different stories. Doesn't make me a lair and it doesn't make you a lair. BV leaving will drive more change. A smaller school is not joining the league so look for D2 to D4 size as the filler and one with a stronger athletic program because not many want to walk in this league right now. (for Willard that is my personal opinion I am not speaking for every school in Ohio, Mi, or Indiana) There is a HUGE difference between a personal opinion, everyone has a right to have them. The issue is those who abuse that right and exaggerate beyond normalcy. I make an extreme effort to be VERY literal. PLEASE tell me when I'm not. I do not know 99% of the "people" who post on here. I cannot leave a statement that I know is a huge exaggeration go unquestioned. The individual in question doesn't even live in an MOAC school district. Yet he purports to know more than YOU about how MOAC schools will handle BV leaving. The issue I have is that you are the ONLY one who goes off on a rant about it. Do AD's want a 7 team league. NO. Can they deal with a 7 team league? Yes two vastly different questions and outcomes. Does that infer I have talked to all 7 AD's? Nope. Leagues around the state tend to be balanced because it makes filling schedules easier. If for no other reason than scheduling most of the forum readers would agree with me (I said most because I have not polled every one of them). The problem is that you seem to be the only forum police on here. YOU decide who is abusing that right. When you always come off as a condescending "know it all" people are going to call you names and negatively react to you blowing things out of proportion. You have been doing this a while so I am guessing its who you are but it does get old. You do have value in your post or I would block you but its sifting through pages of crap to get those nuggets of actual insight that make it painful. So if you want to take it as personal attack go for it but I am actually trying to make the forum enjoyable to read with out watching "adults" attack each other over nothing. You don't know if I live in the district either and I don't need to be in the district to know that a 7 team league is more difficult to schedule. |
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Post by usa70pp on Feb 21, 2018 10:16:50 GMT -5
I know this is the football forum, but wasn't there a day when the MOAC teams played each other twice during the basketball season, but only one counted as a league game? Maybe if it became too difficult to schedule games this could work for football?
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Post by babymaker on Feb 21, 2018 10:18:04 GMT -5
If there is 7 teams someone has an open week from week 4 on...that is the difficulty in scheduling.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 10:29:10 GMT -5
What does living in a district have to do with anything. If that's what he believes I hope he stops posting on every other page outside MOAC. He doesn't think about a person who lives in Mansfield, works at Shelby, grew up in Bucyrus, has a spouse working in Ontario and sent his kids to St Pete. This person could care about the outcome of many schools and many leagues. But I am glad to hear he will only be posting on the league in which he lives in.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 10:58:51 GMT -5
I know this is the football forum, but wasn't there a day when the MOAC teams played each other twice during the basketball season, but only one counted as a league game? Maybe if it became too difficult to schedule games this could work for football? Only one team would have an open date from weeks 4-10. Not 2 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 11:15:50 GMT -5
I know this is the football forum, but wasn't there a day when the MOAC teams played each other twice during the basketball season, but only one counted as a league game? Maybe if it became too difficult to schedule games this could work for football? Only one team would have an open date from weeks 4-10. Not 2 In a 7 team league would not every team have 1 open date in weeks 4-10? |
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Post by awebgsu on Feb 21, 2018 12:34:28 GMT -5
I know this is the football forum, but wasn't there a day when the MOAC teams played each other twice during the basketball season, but only one counted as a league game? Maybe if it became too difficult to schedule games this could work for football? They played the teams in their division two times and outside of their division one time. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 15:45:26 GMT -5
Only one team would have an open date from weeks 4-10. Not 2 In a 7 team league would not every team have 1 open date in weeks 4-10? thats what I meant. I didn’t word it well |
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Post by galion on Feb 21, 2018 18:34:35 GMT -5
From the sounds of it each school in the OCC is in talks to go somewhere. If a 7 team conference was workable for any length of time then the NOL would still exist and OCC members would not be desperate enough to start considering making routine drives up to Lake Erie. The only way Upper comes into play is if the river division of the SBC starts poaching teams from the N10. Apparently, people are convinced that certain MOAC schools would never consider Lex as an option. However, I'd like to point out that many claimed that the NOL was just fine at 7 teams and would never disband as well. I honestly believe that if it came down to a choice between Lex and an uncertain future that the people in charge would have sense enough to pick Lex.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 23:51:29 GMT -5
From the sounds of it each school in the OCC is in talks to go somewhere. If a 7 team conference was workable for any length of time then the NOL would still exist and OCC members would not be desperate enough to start considering making routine drives up to Lake Erie. The only way Upper comes into play is if the river division of the SBC starts poaching teams from the N10. Apparently, people are convinced that certain MOAC schools would never consider Lex as an option. However, I'd like to point out that many claimed that the NOL was just fine at 7 teams and would never disband as well. I honestly believe that if it came down to a choice between Lex and an uncertain future that the people in charge would have sense enough to pick Lex. That would be the logical assumption to think but sometimes logic is not what propels some people in charge. It has been discussed and shot down already when a MOAC league of 10 was the talk. The logical foundation for a league is 6 Richland county schools all within 20 minutes of each other and separated by an enrollment of less than 150 boys. These teams all have good fan support both home and away and could build some immediate rivalries. IMO I was one who claimed the NOL was on shaky ground in the last few seasons and was insulted regularly for it, but it does me no good to say "i told you so" to that person, so I won't.  |
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Post by galion on Feb 22, 2018 2:34:03 GMT -5
There's a huge difference when you are at 8 members and considering expansion than being at 7 members and attempting to remain a viable conference. The former gives a conference the luxury of waiting to find the "perfect fit" while the other requires some pragmatism. Now obviously Sr and Madison are being courted by/make inquiries in the SBC depending on whose version you want to believe. Eventually other OCC teams are going to get jumpy, nervous, and suspicious and somebody is going to jump ship so they aren't left holding the bag(ie. the NOL). Ashland and Wooster have all sorts of options available to them. Lex would most likely be limited to the SBC or MOAC. Mt. Vernon is already rumored to be interested in a new conference closer to home. With Lex's money sports currently in a down cycle(honestly football has never eally been their forte anyway) teams being dominated by them in cross country and tennis probably won't be a deal breaker.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 7:45:38 GMT -5
Can’t say I totally disagree with your logic but it would take some people in charge to eat a little crow to make that happen. If you all of a sudden have a league that includes Shelby, Glaion, Ontario, Lexington and Clear Fork, how far behind would a similar sized Mansfield be?
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 22, 2018 13:27:02 GMT -5
There's a huge difference when you are at 8 members and considering expansion than being at 7 members and attempting to remain a viable conference. The former gives a conference the luxury of waiting to find the "perfect fit" while the other requires some pragmatism. Now obviously Sr and Madison are being courted by/make inquiries in the SBC depending on whose version you want to believe. Eventually other OCC teams are going to get jumpy, nervous, and suspicious and somebody is going to jump ship so they aren't left holding the bag(ie. the NOL). Ashland and Wooster have all sorts of options available to them. Lex would most likely be limited to the SBC or MOAC. Mt. Vernon is already rumored to be interested in a new conference closer to home. With Lex's money sports currently in a down cycle(honestly football has never eally been their forte anyway) teams being dominated by them in cross country and tennis probably won't be a deal breaker. Don't forget about being dominated in track, swimming and volleyball as well. JMHO |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 22, 2018 13:33:05 GMT -5
Can’t say I totally disagree with your logic but it would take some people in charge to eat a little crow to make that happen. If you all of a sudden have a league that includes Shelby, Glaion, Ontario, Lexington and Clear Fork, how far behind would a similar sized Mansfield be? Who is "people in charge"?? I can remember when Galion was asked about being a member of the OCC and wasn't interested because they would be by far the smallest school and Clear Fork left for the same reason. Those would be the schools that any districts in the OCC who applied for admission to the MOAC would have to be concerned most with getting their approval. I don't know how 50% larger can be considered "similar sized". JMHO |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 22, 2018 13:44:06 GMT -5
From the sounds of it each school in the OCC is in talks to go somewhere. If a 7 team conference was workable for any length of time then the NOL would still exist and OCC members would not be desperate enough to start considering making routine drives up to Lake Erie. The only way Upper comes into play is if the river division of the SBC starts poaching teams from the N10. Apparently, people are convinced that certain MOAC schools would never consider Lex as an option. However, I'd like to point out that many claimed that the NOL was just fine at 7 teams and would never disband as well. I honestly believe that if it came down to a choice between Lex and an uncertain future that the people in charge would have sense enough to pick Lex. The NOL found their 8th school when Ontario was accepted. THEN Vermilion used Ontario as an excuse to leave before they played their first contest in the NOL. What it came down to for the NOL not staying at 7 was Willard wanting out due to being by far the smallest school and rarely winning more than a game or 2 league games in the money sports. JMHO |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 15:01:34 GMT -5
There's a huge difference when you are at 8 members and considering expansion than being at 7 members and attempting to remain a viable conference. The former gives a conference the luxury of waiting to find the "perfect fit" while the other requires some pragmatism. Now obviously Sr and Madison are being courted by/make inquiries in the SBC depending on whose version you want to believe. Eventually other OCC teams are going to get jumpy, nervous, and suspicious and somebody is going to jump ship so they aren't left holding the bag(ie. the NOL). Ashland and Wooster have all sorts of options available to them. Lex would most likely be limited to the SBC or MOAC. Mt. Vernon is already rumored to be interested in a new conference closer to home. With Lex's money sports currently in a down cycle(honestly football has never eally been their forte anyway) teams being dominated by them in cross country and tennis probably won't be a deal breaker. If a school would vote NO and use that as an excuse they would be a sad group. |
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Post by Big Lex Fan on Feb 22, 2018 17:29:56 GMT -5
Its been a while since basketball has been in a down cycle at Lex. Get Madison and Upper in the mix and I would be all for it.
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You've talked to all the coaches and every AD at all schools? After speaking with Ontario's AD yesterday I know for a FACT they have no problem with a 7 school league. LIAR!
