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Post by GHS 1999 on Feb 22, 2018 17:36:27 GMT -5
Madison will go to SBC Lake before the MOAC imo.
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Post by Big Lex Fan on Feb 22, 2018 17:58:58 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if Lex would follow suit. Lex hangs there hat on basketball and likes that type of strength of schedule imho.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 6:28:14 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if Lex would follow suit. Lex hangs there hat on basketball and likes that type of strength of schedule imho. History would show that Lex does try to place themselves in a challenging leagues. |
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Post by galion on Feb 23, 2018 6:34:39 GMT -5
How far south will the SBC realistically expand? I would think Madison and Sr would be about the limit. They are basically just looking for 2 schools to fill their large school division without having to bring in more small schools and bump somebody up. As the saying goes 3's a crowd.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 6:54:05 GMT -5
The NOL once had Galion and we are talking about some of the same schools. I could agree that Galion, Mansfield and even Ashland with US 250 could be in the talks if expansion was wanted. The discussion across the board has been they would like 8 in each division and (within reason) would add teams until they get there. Knowing some schools may get bumped around. Although it looks like the River may be going to 9 teams beginning in 2019.
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Post by deathfromabove on Feb 23, 2018 12:58:07 GMT -5
The NOL once had Galion and we are talking about some of the same schools. I could agree that Galion, Mansfield and even Ashland with US 250 could be in the talks if expansion was wanted. The discussion across the board has been they would like 8 in each division and (within reason) would add teams until they get there. Knowing some schools may get bumped around. Although it looks like the River may be going to 9 teams beginning in 2019. Dude, I think that instead of letting the River Division get up to 9 schools I am sure they would bump up either Willard or Margaretta (depends on which one is bigger) to the Bay Division. Maybe they might put both in the Bay so the Bay and the River Divisions would have 7 schools in each of them. Maybe I might be wrong but this time I don't think so. Also if Mansfield Sr. and Madison would come into the Lake Division that would be 8 schools there and then maybe try to talk to Oberlin Firelands into joining the Bay and Attica Seneca East into the River that would be 8 teams in each Divisions. I know there are a lot of IF'S but no harm in trying in something.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:33:29 GMT -5
It would still be 7 for River football.
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Post by deathfromabove on Feb 23, 2018 14:36:40 GMT -5
It would still be 7 for River football. Dude, It would be 7 teams if they move both Willard and Margaretta to the Bay and the River will be 7 teams, that would be Danbury, Sandusky St. Mary's, Fremont St. Joes, Lakota, Tiffin Calvert, Hopewell-Loudon, and Gibsonburg. And if we could get Oberlin Firelands in the Bay and Attica Seneca East in the River that would be 8 schools in each. You think that would work out for everybody.  |
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Post by runawaytrain on Feb 23, 2018 17:16:24 GMT -5
This is a really poor decision by Buckeye Valley.
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Post by nattydaddy on Feb 23, 2018 21:01:16 GMT -5
This is a really poor decision by Buckeye Valley. I’m not too accentuated with Buckeye Valley’s perspective on the purported travel issues that currently exist with the current MOAC set-up. However, as a Delaware resident who makes frequent drives to Cleveland, it feels like forever until you reach the Morrow County / Richland County line on I-71. My guess is the BV administration is finding the multiple trips to Richland County as being of some detriment. Whether that’s calculated in terms of time, money or community disapproval, there is obviously something BV doesn’t like about their current situation in the MOAC that suggests a change was needed. I am, however, familiar with the Mid-State League and the current time-in-car/mileage that accrues with leaving Delaware and reaching the MSL-Ohio schools in the Columbus area. London is a straight shot down U.S. 42. Bexley and Whitehall(-Yearling) will likely be accessed off I-71 southbound, which is the preferable direction to be driving in during rush hour. Grandview Heights likely would be a trip down SR-315. Worthington Christian is just south of I-270. Being in the Central District and the MSL-Ohio being a mediocre football conference are likely two big factors influencing the BV defection. Buckeye Valley is caught in a no-win situation from a conference perspective. The changes that occurred in the last five years to the MOAC have put BV in a terrible spot. They’re also probably going to stay at their current enrollment, too; as in, they aren’t likely to get any bigger to where an OCC membership would be feasible. |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 23, 2018 22:43:13 GMT -5
It would still be 7 for River football. Dude, It would be 7 teams if they move both Willard and Margaretta to the Bay and the River will be 7 teams, that would be Danbury, Sandusky St. Mary's, Fremont St. Joes, Lakota, Tiffin Calvert, Hopewell-Loudon, and Gibsonburg. And if we could get Oberlin Firelands in the Bay and Attica Seneca East in the River that would be 8 schools in each. You think that would work out for everybody. Except for the small schools that were in or hoped to be in the River, that will now have to play in in the Bay. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 23:07:35 GMT -5
This is a really poor decision by Buckeye Valley. I’m not too accentuated with Buckeye Valley’s perspective on the purported travel issues that currently exist with the current MOAC set-up. However, as a Delaware resident who makes frequent drives to Cleveland, it feels like forever until you reach the Morrow County / Richland County line on I-71. My guess is the BV administration is finding the multiple trips to Richland County as being of some detriment. Whether that’s calculated in terms of time, money or community disapproval, there is obviously something BV doesn’t like about their current situation in the MOAC that suggests a change was needed. I am, however, familiar with the Mid-State League and the current time-in-car/mileage that accrues with leaving Delaware and reaching the MSL-Ohio schools in the Columbus area. London is a straight shot down U.S. 42. Bexley and Whitehall(-Yearling) will likely be accessed off I-71 southbound, which is the preferable direction to be driving in during rush hour. Grandview Heights likely would be a trip down SR-315. Worthington Christian is just south of I-270. Being in the Central District and the MSL-Ohio being a mediocre football conference are likely two big factors influencing the BV defection. Buckeye Valley is caught in a no-win situation from a conference perspective. The changes that occurred in the last five years to the MOAC have put BV in a terrible spot. They’re also probably going to stay at their current enrollment, too; as in, they aren’t likely to get any bigger to where an OCC membership would be feasible. Is it being discussed or did they approve the move to happen? |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 23, 2018 23:23:51 GMT -5
This is a really poor decision by Buckeye Valley. I’m not too accentuated with Buckeye Valley’s perspective on the purported travel issues that currently exist with the current MOAC set-up. However, as a Delaware resident who makes frequent drives to Cleveland, it feels like forever until you reach the Morrow County / Richland County line on I-71. My guess is the BV administration is finding the multiple trips to Richland County as being of some detriment. Whether that’s calculated in terms of time, money or community disapproval, there is obviously something BV doesn’t like about their current situation in the MOAC that suggests a change was needed. I am, however, familiar with the Mid-State League and the current time-in-car/mileage that accrues with leaving Delaware and reaching the MSL-Ohio schools in the Columbus area. London is a straight shot down U.S. 42. Bexley and Whitehall(-Yearling) will likely be accessed off I-71 southbound, which is the preferable direction to be driving in during rush hour. Grandview Heights likely would be a trip down SR-315. Worthington Christian is just south of I-270. Being in the Central District and the MSL-Ohio being a mediocre football conference are likely two big factors influencing the BV defection. Buckeye Valley is caught in a no-win situation from a conference perspective. The changes that occurred in the last five years to the MOAC have put BV in a terrible spot. They’re also probably going to stay at their current enrollment, too; as in, they aren’t likely to get any bigger to where an OCC membership would be feasible. London is leaving the MSL. Unless the MSL gets another school for your division it will be 7 schools. Isn't a part of the decision process the size of the schools? Grandview Hts 135, Worthington Christian 142, Bishop Ready 145, Liberty Union 184? The average trip for MSL schools not counting Columbus traffic problems is 45 minutes, the average trip for MOAC schools, including Shelby, is 38 minutes. JMHO |
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Post by nattydaddy on Feb 24, 2018 0:49:07 GMT -5
I’m not too accentuated with Buckeye Valley’s perspective on the purported travel issues that currently exist with the current MOAC set-up. However, as a Delaware resident who makes frequent drives to Cleveland, it feels like forever until you reach the Morrow County / Richland County line on I-71. My guess is the BV administration is finding the multiple trips to Richland County as being of some detriment. Whether that’s calculated in terms of time, money or community disapproval, there is obviously something BV doesn’t like about their current situation in the MOAC that suggests a change was needed. I am, however, familiar with the Mid-State League and the current time-in-car/mileage that accrues with leaving Delaware and reaching the MSL-Ohio schools in the Columbus area. London is a straight shot down U.S. 42. Bexley and Whitehall(-Yearling) will likely be accessed off I-71 southbound, which is the preferable direction to be driving in during rush hour. Grandview Heights likely would be a trip down SR-315. Worthington Christian is just south of I-270. Being in the Central District and the MSL-Ohio being a mediocre football conference are likely two big factors influencing the BV defection. Buckeye Valley is caught in a no-win situation from a conference perspective. The changes that occurred in the last five years to the MOAC have put BV in a terrible spot. They’re also probably going to stay at their current enrollment, too; as in, they aren’t likely to get any bigger to where an OCC membership would be feasible. London is leaving the MSL. Unless the MSL gets another school for your division it will be 7 schools. Isn't a part of the decision process the size of the schools? Grandview Hts 135, Worthington Christian 142, Bishop Ready 145, Liberty Union 184? The average trip for MSL schools not counting Columbus traffic problems is 45 minutes, the average trip for MOAC schools, including Shelby, is 38 minutes. You’re right about London. I forgot they were leaving. The football playing situation in the MSL-Ohio that Buckeye Valley will be walking into is a little complicated to understand at first glance, and it’s even trickier to explain concisely. So I’ll skip the confusing parts and write out the alignment... The MSL-Ohio football playing contingency will be • Bexley • Bishop Ready • Buckeye Valley • Columbus Academy • Grandview Heights • Harvest Prep • Liberty Union (POSSIBLY NOT; see below) • Whitehall-Yearling The MSL-Ohio all sports/NOT FOOTBALL division will be • Bexley • Buckeye Valley • Columbus Academy • Grandview Heights • Whitehall-Yearling • Worthington Christian Liberty Union is written as (POSSIBLY NOT) because their Ohio division status as a football playing member is only temporary (started in 2017.) They shifted into the Ohio for two reasons: a) the defections of West Jefferson, Madison Plains and soon London caused two-to-three weeks open (more on point ‘a’ below...); b) LU claimed a few years ago that their program was going to have competitive balance concerns in 2017-> in the Buckeye Division for football. Addendum on point ‘a’: before the departure of the Madison County schools, the MSL-Ohio had seven (7) football playing schools. When Madison Plains and West Jefferson left, the absence of those two schools was solved by having Liberty Union play in the Ohio football contingency and by accepting Bishop Ready as a football-only member in the Ohio. This made seven (7) football playing schools in the Ohio, and seven (7) football playing schools in the Buckeye. To reiterate, last year (2017) was the first year of this structure. To alleviate scheduling for both Ohio and Buckeye football playing schools, as seven divisional opponents only equals six league games and an open week, the MSL implemented a cross-over game between the two divisions to ensure all teams could get weeks 4-10 filled easily. When the (Barons of) Buckeye Valley join the MSL-Ohio, there will be 15 schools playing football between the Buckeye Division and the Ohio Division. The plan that I have heard is that Liberty Union will go back to the Buckeye Division for football, which would leave the Ohio Division with seven football playing schools. |
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Post by nattydaddy on Feb 24, 2018 0:52:17 GMT -5
I’m not too accentuated with Buckeye Valley’s perspective on the purported travel issues that currently exist with the current MOAC set-up. However, as a Delaware resident who makes frequent drives to Cleveland, it feels like forever until you reach the Morrow County / Richland County line on I-71. My guess is the BV administration is finding the multiple trips to Richland County as being of some detriment. Whether that’s calculated in terms of time, money or community disapproval, there is obviously something BV doesn’t like about their current situation in the MOAC that suggests a change was needed. I am, however, familiar with the Mid-State League and the current time-in-car/mileage that accrues with leaving Delaware and reaching the MSL-Ohio schools in the Columbus area. London is a straight shot down U.S. 42. Bexley and Whitehall(-Yearling) will likely be accessed off I-71 southbound, which is the preferable direction to be driving in during rush hour. Grandview Heights likely would be a trip down SR-315. Worthington Christian is just south of I-270. Being in the Central District and the MSL-Ohio being a mediocre football conference are likely two big factors influencing the BV defection. Buckeye Valley is caught in a no-win situation from a conference perspective. The changes that occurred in the last five years to the MOAC have put BV in a terrible spot. They’re also probably going to stay at their current enrollment, too; as in, they aren’t likely to get any bigger to where an OCC membership would be feasible. Is it being discussed or did they approve the move to happen? From a primary source in the Mid-State League: Buckeye Valley is joining. |
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Post by nattydaddy on Feb 24, 2018 1:26:47 GMT -5
Willard,
Thank you for taking the time to do that research.
I, personally, do not think enrollment is really as significant in the particular topic of “Buckeye Valley to the MSL” as it may seem from a numbers perspective. Here are a few reasons why, and I’ll divide them into points relevant to football and all other sports:
FOOTBALL
• At the risk of sounding disparaging to Buckeye Valley, BV’s coaches past and present and BV’s student-athletes: Buckeye Valley football, traditionally, is not good. I realize that last year’s team wasn’t too bad, but BV doesn’t have a history of being glorious on the gridiron. As others have pointed out, Buckeye Valley has never made the playoffs in football. The other issue is Buckeye Valley’s enrollment is only large because it encompasses the “no-man’s land” areas of Delaware County. A student who lives just a couple minutes west of the Olentangy Local Schools district (e.g. ~10 minutes due west of Olentangy Liberty) would live in the BV district. I can’t find a school district map that is superimposed with highways and roads, but if you live southwest of Delaware, e.g. south of US-42, you’re in BV’s district. Point simply, many kids have long drives to school that consequently can (and does) inhibit involvement in activities such as football.
• Buckeye Valley and Whitehall-Yearling are pretty much mirror images of each other when you look at enrollment and football competitiveness (WH-Y making the D2 playoffs last year misrepresents their competitive ability in the past and likely the future. I can explain further if anyone wants.) As for the other schools: if Buckeye Valley and Ready, at both schools’ typical competition level, were to play ten times in a decade, BV would be lucky to win half of those contests; Grandview Heights is a very solid D6 football program that likely would’ve beaten BV in previous years and likely will be very competitive with BV; C. Academy is the same deal as Grandview Heights in D5. Bexley has an uncharacteristically awful year last season for reasons “X, Y, and Z”, but most years they’ll be a good match for Buckeye Valley.
ALL OTHER SPORTS
• The MSL-Ohio is more often than not very strong in boys hoops. Whitehall-Yearling, Worthington Christian, Bexley and Grandview Heights all will be tough games for Buckeye Valley.
• Soccer, tennis, golf: MSL-Ohio is very, very competitive in these sports. There are multiple state champions, or at the very least state finalists, in those three sports to come out of the MSL-Ohio in recent years. Enrollment difference be damned, the Barons better come ready to play in those sports.
• All other sports: I don’t really have a good gauge on them. Baseball is kinda mediocre, same with softball.
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Post by moacmama on Feb 24, 2018 6:39:33 GMT -5
Thanks for info, nattydaddy.
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Post by GHS 1999 on Feb 24, 2018 8:33:02 GMT -5
Bottom line. It appears Buckeye Valley feels more comfortable being around Columbus for their sports, rather than driving north.
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Post by galion on Feb 24, 2018 14:09:10 GMT -5
It doesn't look like they are walking into a more stable situation though. I can understand their desire to stay in the Columbus area but how that's a better fit for them is puzzling to me.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 24, 2018 18:58:38 GMT -5
natty,
As you postulate, the primary reason for BV joining the MSL is being in a league where they have a better chance to compete in football. Indeed, the MSL division they will play in should help then win more games, but playing against smaller schools will not necessarily garner them more Harbin Points. The more wins a larger school gets in football the more players go out and stick with it. The more dedicated they are at lifting in the off season. Then even more wins come and the cycle perpetuates itself.(see Harding and Sandusky). THEN the smaller schools start to ponder the issue of this much larger school being in their Division and the powers to be could move BV to the larger school Division of the MSL. JMHO
BTW, according to Dude the omnipotent the same mile trip From Mt. Vernon to Columbus can take twice as long as a trip from Mt. Vernon North.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 24, 2018 19:04:04 GMT -5
Bottom line. It appears Buckeye Valley feels more comfortable being around Columbus for their sports, rather than driving north. I have NO idea why anyone would prefer driving in Columbus traffic vs small town traffic. How long does BV anticipate playing in the MSL and driving in Columbus traffic?? The latest study done by the Department of Economic and Social Affairs, predicts that Columbus will have a population of 3 MILLION by the year 2050. It's gonna need a MUCH larger and much further out, "outer belt". JMHO |
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Post by galion on Feb 24, 2018 19:27:08 GMT -5
I can, the roads will be much better maintained in the winter.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 24, 2018 19:44:53 GMT -5
The roads to every MOAC road game were in great shape this winter season. I preferred those drives over the drives to Lake Erie. JMHO
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Post by galion on Feb 24, 2018 20:54:17 GMT -5
Yes but the ones around Cbus are even better. Listen man I much prefer the drives to MOAC schools to the ones to Bellevue, Norwalk, TC, and at the time Fostoria. Upper, Shelby, and Willard I didn't mind so much.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 7:34:55 GMT -5
The 1-way total and average distance from Buckeye Valley to the schools natty predicts is 249(36) miles. If they stay in the MOAC once NU is out and Shelby joins the same measure is 241(34) miles. Not a big enough difference by itself to really matter. Add in traffic and you could see the reason Mt Vernon left the Columbus league.
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Post by wallpass on Feb 26, 2018 20:54:23 GMT -5
Just an FYI to all, do not be so quick to dismiss Highland to the MOAC. They have a former Clear Fork guy running things over there now and from what I hear, they are not happy with things in the KMAC. I know they were the catalyst for the pull away from the MOAC but things have changed. I can't believe I am saying this but my bet is they will be the next school to join the MOAC.
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Post by kingmartinez on Feb 26, 2018 21:21:40 GMT -5
Just an FYI to all, do not be so quick to dismiss Highland to the MOAC. They have a former Clear Fork guy running things over there now and from what I hear, they are not happy with things in the KMAC. I know they were the catalyst for the pull away from the MOAC but things have changed. I can't believe I am saying this but my bet is they will be the next school to join the MOAC. Hmmm. So I hear. Maybe some of the laughers will be eating crow? ncoast.proboards.com/post/41284/thread |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 26, 2018 21:38:43 GMT -5
Just an FYI to all, do not be so quick to dismiss Highland to the MOAC. They have a former Clear Fork guy running things over there now and from what I hear, they are not happy with things in the KMAC. I know they were the catalyst for the pull away from the MOAC but things have changed. I can't believe I am saying this but my bet is they will be the next school to join the MOAC. The Highland Principal is a former Ontario guy. The longest trip for Highland in the MOAC would be 35 miles to Shelby |
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Post by pirate80 on Feb 26, 2018 22:29:19 GMT -5
Just an FYI to all, do not be so quick to dismiss Highland to the MOAC. They have a former Clear Fork guy running things over there now and from what I hear, they are not happy with things in the KMAC. I know they were the catalyst for the pull away from the MOAC but things have changed. I can't believe I am saying this but my bet is they will be the next school to join the MOAC. Just out of curiousity, what could they possibly not be happy about? They should be getting much bigger gates than they would in the MOAC. They'll always be competitive in the KMAC in all sports but will likely be mediocre in the MOAC in the two money making sports. I'm just curious as to what they could be unhappy about. All three of their big rivals in Fredericktown, Centerburg and Cardington are in their current league. Just curious as to what could entice them back to the MOAC. |
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Post by GHS 1999 on Feb 26, 2018 23:11:51 GMT -5
Has Buckeye Valley officially voted to leave the MOAC yet? I was understanding they were going to but not sure if it has happened yet. I wish they would stay. I really like the MOAC the way it will be with Shelby added.
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